My Opening Epilogue

[Guest Anton Chigurh]

I’ve followed this board for nearly three years although I’ve rarely posted. I spend most of my time reading and trying to learn the proper etiquette of this “hobby” and TOB. Read what you like into the following observations. They’re based only on my experience and perception of TOB.

1)TOB can be a very valuable tool, but too often novices are greeted with disdain and scorn for a 411 request or for asking a simple question. Sure, it’s remedial stuff, but I don’t understand the anger. Does it take more effort to respond with patience as opposed to insults? Wouldn’t everyone benefit by striving to incorporate new people and opinions into the community?

2)Whether someone does or doesn’t write reviews is nobody’s business. This is one of the most hypocritical aspects of the TOB. Reviews are not owed. Not to the provider and certainly not the community. There are hundreds of reasons why some write reviews and others don’t. I’ve read the arguments from both sides. Let it go.

3)It’s disconcerting, the speed at which this board can jump to conclusions about providers (and clients, to a lesser degree). I’ve seen women, new and established, ripped to shreds on this board for no reasons other than gossip and speculation. No facts necessary. It’s nearly a regular event. A feeding frenzy. Too often the first reaction to anything or anyone new is suspicion and false accusation.

4)If you’re a man and you’re addressing a woman or women on TOB as a “hooker, slut, hoe” or any other derogatory slang for escort, provider or even prostitute, you’re only exposing your own inadequacies. Are you incapable of showing even a modicum of respect? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question. For the life of me I can’t figure out how a woman puts up with your shit, regardless of the donation. If you’re a woman, a provider, and these are the nouns that you apply to yourself and your business then I feel badly for you. It’s self loathing.

I’m not “white knighting” for any of the ladies here. In fact, I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting 99.9% of the ladies who frequent TOB. I’m the dreaded “non-hobbyist”. I’m not married and I don’t have/want a girlfriend. This isn’t a hobby for me. It’s therapy and I mean that in the most literal sense. I don’t question your rationalization for being here so please don’t question mine. My companions, paid or not, are a private matter.

These are just a few reasons why I don’t participate more often on TOB. Maybe I don’t have anything to contribute, but you’ll never know about me or countless other people because a certain percentage of TOB participants just wanna act like dicks. It’s as simple as that.

If you think my harangue is directed towards you, it probably is. For the rest of you, thanks for all the guidance. It’s much appreciated.

[Guest]

Welcome to TOB.

I appreciate what you are saying and agree 100%.

To totally understand you have to go back to the beginning of this board and the original owner. It was laid out pretty clearly that there was a "us versus them" mentality here, and women were minions. That legacy has stuck with the board even through a change of hands.

It is unfortunate and sad. But it is the way it is. I agree with what you said about people showing their own inadequacies when they refer to others with derogatory terms. But the truth is there is like ten loudmouths on here that "think" that they run things around here, when in all reality they never even make appointments. They are .001% of the total clientele that are out there.

Besides them, the clients that actually come to see us are generally very nice people. So, whenever I see somebody being mean or rude here, I just remember that they are nobody in the big scheme of things.

I wish that the moderators would let the "us versus them" legacy go and we can all just be friends. But I guess in a perfect world the Broncos would have won the Super Bowl too.

Anyways, I appreciate you and all of the real people that are out there, because there's way more good people than bad, even if you can't see it all the time.

Thank you for your post!

Have a good day.

[Mace]

Welcome to TOB.

I wish that the moderators would let the "us versus them" legacy go and we can all just be friends.

Classic example of how opinion can be misconstrued and responsibility attributed to "administration".

FWIW, I agree with much of what you post.

The moderators administer per-the-rules. The self-appointed hall monitors get to post because they're taking advantage of this free discussion area.

A discussion forum is provided for all characters to interact.. just stay within the rules, take opinion with a grain of salt and move on.

Don't worry about others' bitching and moaning about 411s or noob questions. Sometimes we catch the off-topic responses or the antagonism. And when we do.. we don't worry about being called board nazis.

[Nusa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

[Blue-eyedTraveler]

While I appreciate what the OP is saying, there's a certain entertainment value with some of the posters, especially those who behave as dicks. There's kind of an unwritten understanding that dicks ought to have the right to expose themselves for what they are, and so a lot of us simply let it go in one ear and out the other. I've experienced this kind of behavior since high school. In the military, it was especially entertaining, because guys often wore the size of their dicks on their sleeves. It doesn't get any more hilarious than that.

I made a total idiot of myself when I first arrived many years ago, and amidst all the negativity, the board's best friend Nusa gave me guidance that I have used ever since. We must always remember the nature of this discussion forum and its topics. A lot of people are here, because, well, they just aren't all there, and I've come to believe that it just comes with the territory. YMMV, always.

[fork]

If you’re a man and you’re addressing a woman or women on TOB as a “hooker, slut, hoe” or any other derogatory slang for escort, provider or even prostitute, you’re only exposing your own inadequacies.

I can see how it can be easily misconstrued, but I don't have any negative feelings around the words "hooker" or "slut". In fact, I quite love hookers and sluts. Whores too.

The word "hoe" is a bit harder to find much positive in since it usually means a girl who is pimped out and under someone else's control.

P.S. that was a humdinger of an introduction!

[coolhand luke]

I agree with all that you have said. I have been on the board longer than you have and don't participate much either. I do so occasionally if something strikes the right cords. While I do write reviews I don't write all of them and do it mostly as a courtesy to the ladies and others who rely on them. I rely on them as well.

I think that there is too much criticism as well and people are eager to jump on someone for anything but that is a universal trait of society.

By the way i used the word ladies as I don't like the use of the other acronyms either.

[Guest]

I’ve followed this board for nearly three years although I’ve rarely posted. I spend most of my time reading and trying to learn the proper etiquette of this “hobby” and TOB. Read what you like into the following observations. They’re based only on my experience and perception of TOB.

1)TOB can be a very valuable tool, but too often novices are greeted with disdain and scorn for a 411 request or for asking a simple question. Sure, it’s remedial stuff, but I don’t understand the anger. Does it take more effort to respond with patience as opposed to insults? Wouldn’t everyone benefit by striving to incorporate new people and opinions into the community? When the board is always on angry mode it sets an ill mood, scares people off, and sets a bad tone for the new guys/girls. I guess the only reason I come and look is to make sure everything is okay (girl language= stings or whatever).

2)Whether someone does or doesn’t write reviews is nobody’s business. This is one of the most hypocritical aspects of the TOB. Reviews are not owed. Not to the provider and certainly not the community. There are hundreds of reasons why some write reviews and others don’t. I’ve read the arguments from both sides. Let it go. That double edged sword... I prefer mine in a more private setting, and I hope that one day TOB can do something like that. Gina was talking about it but the guys shot it down before it could fly:(

3)It’s disconcerting, the speed at which this board can jump to conclusions about providers (and clients, to a lesser degree). I’ve seen women, new and established, ripped to shreds on this board for no reasons other than gossip and speculation. No facts necessary. It’s nearly a regular event. A feeding frenzy. Too often the first reaction to anything or anyone new is suspicion and false accusation. Its disturbing at how callus and hypocritical some people can be when sitting behind a screen. I've endured exactly what your talking about and instead of sulking about it I took that nasty negative energy and used it as fuel too take me to the top. I don't know if they allow apologies here, I've never gotten one, nor have I ever read one...

4)If you’re a man and you’re addressing a woman or women on TOB as a “hooker, slut, hoe” or any other derogatory slang for escort, provider or even prostitute, you’re only exposing your own inadequacies. Are you incapable of showing even a modicum of respect? Never mind, it's a rhetorical question. For the life of me I can’t figure out how a woman puts up with your shit, regardless of the donation. If you’re a woman, a provider, and these are the nouns that you apply to yourself and your business then I feel badly for you. It’s self loathing. I agree. It reads very Colfax; trailer trash.

I’m not “white knighting” for any of the ladies here. In fact, I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting 99.9% of the ladies who frequent TOB. I’m the dreaded “non-hobbyist”. I’m not married and I don’t have/want a girlfriend. This isn’t a hobby for me. It’s therapy and I mean that in the most literal sense. I don’t question your rationalization for being here so please don’t question mine. My companions, paid or not, are a private matter.

These are just a few reasons why I don’t participate more often on TOB. Maybe I don’t have anything to contribute, but you’ll never know about me or countless other people because a certain percentage of TOB participants just wanna act like dicks. It’s as simple as that.

TOB is where I started, and I'm sure some of my old friends come and check in and see what's going on... But most of them don't post or write anything anywhere. The part that gets too me is that the constant drama, and hoe this hoe that stuff, backpage 411's an entire page long, has scared off a lot of the fun personalities that used to post here. Gawd I miss them<3 Ashley the most.

Most people want fun and sexy in their lives, that's why they were drawn here....

If you think my harangue is directed towards you, it probably is. For the rest of you, thanks for all the guidance. It’s much appreciated.

I appreciate your post, thank you.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

So why are you here? Just to take and never contribute?

[urfan]

+1 Ant

great OP there - nice to have an objective view once in a while.

one question: since an epilogue usually comes at the end of something, is your 'opening epilogue' just a quick 'howdy/adios' or are you gonna keep posting

[MrReindeer-9515]

I’ve followed this board for nearly three years although I’ve rarely posted...

[snip-it's there]

In re the OP:

Well written, other than the penultimate paragraph, which comes off a little whiney.

I agree with some, disagree with some, overall I'm glad you could express your Truth(see below), but as another seemed to be pointing out: it's all grist for the Mill. Some grist is just a little spicier than others; and as CSI411 once pointed out: the so called "drama" threads/posts seem to get quite a bit of traction.

Classic example of how opinion can be misconstrued and responsibility attributed to "administration".

FWIW, I agree with much of what you post.

The moderators administer per-the-rules. The self-appointed hall monitors get to post because they're taking advantage of this free discussion area.

A discussion forum is provided for all characters to interact.. just stay within the rules, take opinion with a grain of salt and move on.

[snip]

Thank you for that.

[Guest Anton Chigurh]

Thank all of you for your support, constructive criticism, and questions. Many of you responded with similar advice regarding the nature of TOB and message boards in general. I'm in complete agreement. I don't expect Utopia and I admit I struggle with filtering out the negative.

You're correct Mr. R, I did digress. My apologies. On the bright side when I woke up today and re-read my post I was thankful it wasn't completely incoherent. Insomnia and Irish whiskey can be a lethal combination.

To NNG: Fair question. I think I addressed why I'm here so I'll focus on the "take and never contribute". I'm grateful for the information and knowledge the TOB community has made available on the board. I have learned from everyone here, even the surliest of members. If by contributing you mean posting, I don't have an answer. If you're referring to reviews, I'll clarify my previous thoughts. If a woman requested a review I would, as Luke said, do it out of courtesy for the lady. I have previously and would in the future write reviews on scams and what might be considered dangerous situations. But it's probably immaterial. In my three years I've seen a small number of providers. In the past months that number has dwindled to one. She isn't a TOB member and she prefers not be be reviewed. I respect her wishes.

To Urfan: Yes, the post was intended to be a 'quick howdy/adios'. I'm weary and deliberating my suitability to TOB. I would add that the responses in this thread and through pm's have left me humbled. As for the "opening epilogue" phrase, that was an homage to you, Urfan, no sarcasm involved. I was counting on you to catch it.

[Bit Banger]

Well written and thoughtful. But in one area you are quite wrong.

2)Whether someone does or doesn’t write reviews is nobody’s business. This is one of the most hypocritical aspects of the TOB. Reviews are not owed. Not to the provider and certainly not the community. There are hundreds of reasons why some write reviews and others don’t. I’ve read the arguments from both sides. Let it go.

If someone reads and profits from the reviews (finds their ATF, avoids a scam, etc.) then they do OWE the community which provided that information their own reviews.

If on the other hand you never use the reviews as part of your research process, not even to verify that she's not LE, then by all means - take a pass.

It's the simple courtesy of - If you take, give some back.

[Guest]

Classic example of how opinion can be misconstrued and responsibility attributed to "administration".

Not sure how I can misconstrue my own opinion, but all I was saying was that I wish that the moderators (not admin) would not allow people to make rude comments. I was not blaming you or anybody else for anybody's bad behavior.

[MOCHA]

I think even with just that opening post the OP contributed plenty.

Well-written. I say be the change you want to see especially by giving your 2 cents and some much more often.

[nairobi09]

I agree with what you have said almost without exception. So thanks for reminding us

of these things.

Not taking things personally, or 'having a thick skin' helps if you post here often but you have to decide whether you want to be part of it. Many former frequent posters no longer participate.

As with hobbying, many probably come here with unrealistic expectations. Much of the interaction here is a reflection of lack of civility in American society generally although that is not much of a consolation.

[urfan]

you sly dog. you HAVE been reading discussion threads here, haven't you?

and here i was going to suggest what you meant to say may have been:

opening monologue, opening prologue, opening ideologue, opening pornologue, opening diatribe, etc.

and don't be in too much of a quandary over whether you're suitable to tob. to paraphrase that old chestnut about not wanting to belong to an escort discussion board that would have you as a member.

as for pm's, you should get a load of ones i've gotten. that's where the real fun begins!

[Bigguy]

I also generally agree with the OP, but I think Bit is right about reviews. If you never use them then don't bother. If you do use them then you owe something.

[2Big]

TL/DR.

[urfan]

-1

now how do i post this without having to type in at least 10 characters

[BoobLoverJoshua]

Well written and thoughtful. But in one area you are quite wrong.

If someone reads and profits from the reviews (finds their ATF, avoids a scam, etc.) then they do OWE the community which provided that information their own reviews.

If on the other hand you never use the reviews as part of your research process, not even to verify that she's not LE, then by all means - take a pass.

It's the simple courtesy of - If you take, give some back.

Eh....you know a long time ago I read about how there tended to be a 10 to 1 ratio of lurkers vs posters, though this was relating to usenet. While I'm sure it in reality varies widely, especially with how easy something is to register and if one is required to register to read at all, I have to imagine that holds up.

Hell, if you look here, there's currently 269 "guests" reading vs 19 "members", and a total of 5,571 "members". Now surely that that number includes many people who never actually read this place actively, but you can be sure just from those simple numbers that there's quite a large percentage of people who "only reads and profits from the reviews".

Now if that 'should' be or not, I'm not going to argue because it's a futile thing that's just an opinion anyway, but one really needs to consider, ESPECIALLY on a board like this, that people have many reasons not to beyond simple leeching.

[Bit Banger]

I would point out that TOB is a review site which, unlike several others I could name, does not compel users to provide reviews for access. IMHO this adds credibility to the reviews.

[Jez UaBriain]

So why are you here? Just to take and never contribute?

I don't think there is anything to take. The op clearly stated that he is a non-hobbyist, but clearly he finds this cyber-world fascinating. He offered his unasked for, but much agreed upon observation.

The three things that most of us (at one time or another)clearly forget is this-

• We are adults
  
• we should have already learned how to play with others
  
• Sometimes it is best to keeps one's mouth shut
  

[pitbull]

Your point about the names...slut, hooker, whore, prostitute, street walker...well, the gals are not as sensitive as you might imagine on this topic.

I started a thread about this a couple of years ago, and got schooled on the differences between "slut" and "whore" -- a slut gives it away and a whore charges for it, etc. I also had many responses essentially saying that they don't care what they are called. A hooker is a hooker. A prostitute is a prostitute. A rose is a rose.

Destiny has pointed out that there is no REAL difference between a street-walking hooker and an "escort" with a nice incall. That is, the objective is the same, but the means are different.

All that said, in the words of the Lonesome Dove author, "Even whores have hearts" and some of these ladies, in my opinion, are nothing less than angels of mercy. Whatever you want to call them.

Now, does "John" offend me? It used to, but "client" is just a euphemism. Ultimately, this is no place for euphemisms. In this space, there is at least honesty -- honesty about human nature, honesty about economics, and through it all there is some humanity and human connection that inevitably comes through.

What the hell did I just write? I have no fucking idea.

[MAG]

Your point about the names...slut, hooker, whore, prostitute, street walker...well, the gals are not as sensitive as you might imagine on this topic.

Oh, plenty of them are sensitive -- that's been evident by several very defensive posts just in the last week.

some of these ladies, in my opinion, are nothing less than angels of mercy.

I actually agree with this. There are a lot of guys who turn to hookers for a variety of reasons, and without them we'd be a lonely, frustrated bunch.

Now, does "John" offend me? It used to, but "client" is just a euphemism. Ultimately, this is no place for euphemisms. In this space, there is at least honesty -- honesty about human nature, honesty about economics, and through it all there is some humanity and human connection that inevitably comes through.

+1

What the hell did I just write? I have no fucking idea.

An eloquent post, pit. We'll said.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

Well I find the OP to be a hypocrite passing his holier than thou opinion on an activity and community that he is not a participant in. And he does take even it is for his own entertainment or his wank bank.

[urfan]

salient point, Bit

[Guest Anton Chigurh]

I stated in my OP that what followed were observations “based only on my experience and perception of TOB”. It’s difficult to write an all-encompassing and succinct post in regard to many aspects of this lifestyle while staying within the board rules and my own rules of privacy. I’ll try to further define what I wrote.

I don't think there is anything to take. The op clearly stated that he is a non-hobbyist, but clearly he finds this cyber-world fascinating. He offered his unasked for, but much agreed upon observation.

The three things that most of us (at one time or another)clearly forget is this-

• We are adults
  
• we should have already learned how to play with others
  
• Sometimes it is best to keeps one's mouth shut
  

When I said I’m a “non-hobbyist” I should have said I don’t consider myself to be a “hobbyist” either by Webster’s definition or any definition I’ve read on TOB. Although some may see this as parsing, I would answer by saying I'm trying to delineate who I am and how I see this game in which I am a participant.

Well I find the OP to be a hypocrite passing his holier than thou opinion on an activity and community that he is not a participant in. And he does take even it is for his own entertainment or his wank bank.

In my second post in the thread I answered your questions directly, NNG:

To NNG: Fair question. I think I addressed why I'm here so I'll focus on the "take and never contribute". I'm grateful for the information and knowledge the TOB community has made available on the board. I have learned from everyone here, even the surliest of members. If by contributing you mean posting, I don't have an answer. If you're referring to reviews, I'll clarify my previous thoughts. If a woman requested a review I would, as Luke said, do it out of courtesy for the lady. I have previously and would in the future write reviews on scams and what might be considered dangerous situations. But it's probably immaterial. In my three years I've seen a small number of providers. In the past months that number has dwindled to one. She isn't a TOB member and she prefers not be be reviewed. I respect her wishes.

I'm not passing judgement on anyone who chooses to partake in this diversion be it provider or client. My opinions were centered around TOB and civility, not about the morality or ethics of "hobbying". As to the second sentence of your post and what I've taken...I'm going to take the high road.

Your point about the names...slut, hooker, whore, prostitute, street walker...well, the gals are not as sensitive as you might imagine on this topic.

I started a thread about this a couple of years ago, and got schooled on the differences between "slut" and "whore" -- a slut gives it away and a whore charges for it, etc. I also had many responses essentially saying that they don't care what they are called. A hooker is a hooker. A prostitute is a prostitute. A rose is a rose.

Destiny has pointed out that there is no REAL difference between a street-walking hooker and an "escort" with a nice incall. That is, the objective is the same, but the means are different.

All that said, in the words of the Lonesome Dove author, "Even whores have hearts" and some of these ladies, in my opinion, are nothing less than angels of mercy. Whatever you want to call them.

Now, does "John" offend me? It used to, but "client" is just a euphemism. Ultimately, this is no place for euphemisms. In this space, there is at least honesty -- honesty about human nature, honesty about economics, and through it all there is some humanity and human connection that inevitably comes through.

What the hell did I just write? I have no fucking idea.

Isn't "hobbyist" a euphemism? My point isn't so much the words themselves, it's the intent behind them. I could give numerous examples from TOB threads where the words "hooker, whore, slut" are used for the sole purpose of demeaning a woman or women and/or to give the person using the word a sense of superiority over someone they deem unworthy of respect. It's about dehumanizing the target. It's a subtle and nuanced approach to subjugation. It's a tactic as old as human civilization and one that often works.

I stand by what I said in the OP regarding escorts applying these words to themselves. I am genuinely saddened when I hear a woman refer to herself in this manner. I don't care if they're walking Colfax or have an in call at the Ritz Carlton. Life isn't easy but it gets a whole lot harder when human beings internalize this chatter. I know because I'm quite capable of saying destructive things to myself. I'm no better than anyone else. I am the furthest thing from politically correct. "But I'm trying, Ringo. I'm trying real hard to be the shepherd."

My OP was nothing but an overview of the behavior I find troubling on TOB. I wasn't attributing this conduct to the whole TOB community and for what it's worth I think the moderators do an admirable job of letting the members police themselves. I'm not at all comfortable writing this screed. I'm not a persona. This is me, in real life. I'm gonna spend the next 24 hours anxiety ridden and freaking out about how this board will react to my ramblings. But you know what? It was worth it because my objective, my goal, my contribution, was to start a discussion about how we see ourselves and examine how we interact with others involved in this "hobby, activity, lifestyle" or whatever name you want to give it.

How's that for TL/DR?

[Guest Anton Chigurh]

I gotta add a public thank you to the mods. They've helped me out...a lot.

[Denguy40]

Blah blah blah. The board is candid and is entertaining to read just like any other forum on the Internet. The hobby itself is a blast. Quit over analyzing things and have fun. What a boring thread.