Name change

[Milos Vesely]

Looks like there is finally enough public pressure to change that disgusting mascot name of the Washington DC NFL team.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Bit Banger]

Yes.  Next will be the Chiefs. Then PETA will start complaining on behalf of horses, aquatic mammals, and cats.  And that’s just the NFL.  Everybody knows that Rangers were a racist bunch, be they Texans, Roger’s, or Airborne. ...

Where does it stop?  Trying to please all the people all the time is impossible.

[gr8owl]

23 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Yes.  Next will be the Chiefs. Then PETA will start complaining on behalf of horses, aquatic mammals, and cats.  And that’s just the NFL.  Everybody knows that Rangers were a racist bunch, be they Texans, Roger’s, or Airborne. ...

Where does it stop?  Trying to please all the people all the time is impossible.

This may be the worst straw man argument I have ever seen by a non-politician.  It is a racist slur that has no place in a world that is getting fed up with racist bullshit.

[Bit Banger]

I never said it wasn’t a racial slur.  If you’re offended, don’t watch their games or buy their logo goods.

Suppose I’m offended by Christianity (I’m not, btw).  Should I demand that all the cities, etc. named for saints be renamed?  How many Columbus/Columbia places are going to be changed?

There is no end to this process because there is always somebody who has an axe to grind.

[gr8owl]

1 minute ago, Bit Banger said:

I never said it wasn’t a racial slur.  If you’re offended, don’t watch their games or buy their logo goods.

Suppose I’m offended by Christianity (I’m not, btw).  Should I demand that all the cities, etc. named for saints be renamed?  How many Columbus/Columbia places are going to be changed?

There is no end to this process because there is always somebody who has an axe to grind.

Red: Wow, you just dig deeper.  I should not have to avoid hugely popular sporting events/leagues just to not have offensive racist slurs thrown in my face.  More importantly, I should not have to be subjected to yet another generation raised on the belief that this is ok and acceptable and the whiners should just tune out and shut up.  If you agree it is a racist slur how can you justify supporting it?

As to comparing to religious names, we have freedom of religion in our constitution, but I do not find racism as a protected right in there anywhere.  Again, you compare apples to oranges.  Columbus within the context of 500 years ago paradigm can be argued as worthy of note and admiration for some of the things he did, but also condemned for some of the bullshit he did.  In otherwords a healthy community discussion if respectfully done. (But not a handful of people just destroying public or private property and getting to decide for everyone!!) But "redskin" is and has always been and always will be a derogatory slur that is extremely offensive to many. The only defense is "let me be a racist jerk because it is tradition and you just look away and get over it"  Sorry.  Does not fly.

[Bit Banger]

Are we also going to change the names of the Kansas City NFL and Atlanta MLB teams?

Are we going to eliminate rap & hiphop with words that would get me persecuted?

Seriously, where does it stop?  When is enough enough?  Each of these decisions, when considered by itself, seem reasonable.  Yet like the pebble rolling down hill, the avalanche will crush you, and our society.

Simply put, I am offended by the ‘cancel’ culture!

[gr8owl]

58 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Are we also going to change the names of the Kansas City NFL and Atlanta MLB teams?

Are we going to eliminate rap & hiphop with words that would get me persecuted?

Seriously, where does it stop?  When is enough enough?  Each of these decisions, when considered by itself, seem reasonable.  Yet like the pebble rolling down hill, the avalanche will crush you, and our society.

Simply put, I am offended by the ‘cancel’ culture!

I don't know ...... are the terms "chief" and "brave" derogatory slurs?  I don't think so.  Can they be turned into something derogatory by how the teams promote them?  Perhaps. "Tomahawk chop" bullshit could stand to go.  But that is the whole point - intelligent discussion about specific individual cases.  In the topics at hand ....... perhaps ask the indigenous tribes in the area what they think.  Is there a respectful way to keep the "mascots" but make them respectful representations of the actual groups and perhaps educational in terms of cultures and histories.  Then it could be positive. You know, have a conversation.  And NOT either blindly yanking down all statues and references with  no discussion and also not a blanket dismissal as just "cancel culture"  Yes, some culture is long overdue to be cancelled.

Eliminate rap and hip hop?  We could only hope and wish!! (OK, I just don't like it, but that doesn't mean it should go away} But that is under freedom of artistic expression.  And again - specific songs/albums/groups and discussion because not all of it is derogatory racist bullshit.

Where does it stop?  Hopefully when the vast majority become understanding and respectful of each other and we stop having literal racist slurs in common usage and people defending their use because it is "tradition" or "heritage".  When as a society using derogatory terms and put downs of entire groups of people solely based on their racial or ethnic origins is a thing of the past.

[Kaduk]

2 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

...

Seriously, where does it stop?  When is enough enough?  Each of these decisions, when considered by itself, seem reasonable.  Yet like the pebble rolling down hill, the avalanche will crush you, and our society.

I think all it would take for the football team to change its name would be their home field’s title sponsor threatening the loss of millions of dollars........

[oldguy47]

21 hours ago, gr8owl said:

This may be the worst straw man argument I have ever seen by a non-politician.  It is a racist slur that has no place in a world that is getting fed up with racist bullshit.

That someone gave negative rep to this is fascinating.

Thanks for trying gr8owl.

[ilovewomen]

I gave the negative rep for “this is the worst straw man argument by a non politician” statement.

I’m not disagreeing that certain words or descriptions are considered racist.

 

[Hunter VanDyke]

21 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

Are we also going to change the names of the Kansas City NFL and Atlanta MLB teams?

Are we going to eliminate rap & hiphop with words that would get me persecuted?

Seriously, where does it stop?  When is enough enough?  Each of these decisions, when considered by itself, seem reasonable.  Yet like the pebble rolling down hill, the avalanche will crush you, and our society.

Simply put, I am offended by the ‘cancel’ culture!

This right here. I think this is how we do what's right as a society. This is obvious and blatant racism, stuff that's NOT hard to change.  It should have been changed and would have been changed long ago, if it weren't for lumping all the other boulders, not peoples in with it, and making it seem like it was such a big deal when it really wasn't. 

@Bit Banger we're all a work in progress. Our country is always changing, and a work in progress. When we know better we do better. It never ends. Team names change for a variety of reasons, look at Houston, Oilers now Texans. This reason for changing Washingtons name is just common decency in my opinion. 

Change the name.

 

 

 

 

[fork]

On 7/3/2020 at 11:18 AM, Bit Banger said:

Seriously, where does it stop?  When is enough enough?  Each of these decisions, when considered by itself, seem reasonable.  Yet like the pebble rolling down hill, the avalanche will crush you, and our society.

This seems rather dramatic. I've heard people complain about "history being forgotten", against all evidence that this happens, but I haven't heard that we're gonna get crushed in an avalanche.
 

[scarecrow]

The names comes from the red war paint the Native American's wore.. I think it would be a show of respect at the time. No one is going to want to name their team and players a racial slur and hope to sell merchandise and tickets. What player would want to be called a racist slur, it would not make good business sense to name a team that players would not want to play under. Now it has become political.

What about the name Cowboys, that was a derogatory name. It was a put down towards those that works around cows.  Should we take offense to the name Cowboy and have teams change the name? How about Vikings, Packers,  Steelers, how about Raiders, they are not known to be nice people? How about the Oklahoma Sooners, why are we honoring a group of cheaters by names a football team after them?  Should we get rid of the name "Pirates"? There are real life Pirates doing bad things today so why do we glorify them by naming teams after them?

I live near a town who's college teams are names the "Chippewas".. but the college is on a reservation and when you name the team after yourself, I guess it is not racist. No one takes offense to the name.

[pfunk]

6 minutes ago, scarecrow said:

The names comes from the red war paint the Native American's wore.. I think it would be a show of respect at the time.

I think you are mistaken...

Link to history of "redskins"

[fork]

33 minutes ago, scarecrow said:

What about the name Cowboys, that was a derogatory name. It was a put down towards those that works around cows.  Should we take offense to the name Cowboy and have teams change the name? How about Vikings, Packers,  Steelers, how about Raiders, they are not known to be nice people? How about the Oklahoma Sooners, why are we honoring a group of cheaters by names a football team after them?  Should we get rid of the name "Pirates"? There are real life Pirates doing bad things today so why do we glorify them by naming teams after them?

I live near a town who's college teams are names the "Chippewas".. but the college is on a reservation and when you name the team after yourself, I guess it is not racist. No one takes offense to the name.

The idea isn't to go around looking for names that might offend someone. IF someone is offended by these names, I'm sure they will speak up. And if they aren't alone, and millions of others are also offended, then sure, it's time to talk.

Until then it's just a straw-man argument.

[Hunter VanDyke]

1 hour ago, scarecrow said:

The names comes from the red war paint the Native American's wore.. I think it would be a show of respect at the time. No one is going to want to name their team and players a racial slur and hope to sell merchandise and tickets. What player would want to be called a racist slur, it would not make good business sense to name a team that players would not want to play under. Now it has become political.

What about the name Cowboys, that was a derogatory name. It was a put down towards those that works around cows.  Should we take offense to the name Cowboy and have teams change the name? How about Vikings, Packers,  Steelers, how about Raiders, they are not known to be nice people? How about the Oklahoma Sooners, why are we honoring a group of cheaters by names a football team after them?  Should we get rid of the name "Pirates"? There are real life Pirates doing bad things today so why do we glorify them by naming teams after them?

I live near a town who's college teams are names the "Chippewas".. but the college is on a reservation and when you name the team after yourself, I guess it is not racist. No one takes offense to the name.

 

rac·ism

/ˈrāˌsizəm/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

    

    

[Bit Banger]

2 hours ago, fork said:

This seems rather dramatic. I've heard people complain about "history being forgotten", against all evidence that this happens, but I haven't heard that we're gonna get crushed in an avalanche.
 

Just a year or two ago they were just tearing down Confederate statues.  As that pebble rolls down hill it’s picked up other rocks & gained speed.  Now it’s various Presidents (including Lincoln), Columbus, etc.  That’s the avalanche to which I refer.  What will it be next year? Reagan & JFK?  Wright brothers or Henry Ford?

[JoDoe27]

If this and the most recent threads have shown me, yet once again but most definitely assured and confirmed, is there are some racist, bigoted individuals on this board with zero qualms letting you know how angry/annoyed/disgusted They are at the fact they’re unable to say or behave as they once did and have always done because suddenly they’re being called on this atrocious behavior by those normally on the receiving end. And likely even more so angered because people that look like and close to the same age as them are now speaking out. 

[MrReindeer-9515]

These kinds of threads, while divisive, are very important: when you post something like Black Lives Matter, or change the racist Redskins name and someone goes out of their way to post their racist views or tries to defend them, well that tells me all I need to know about them.

Its like the assholes that fly the Gadsden or the Confederate flags proudly: it’s good to know where they are...

[Bit Banger]

31 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Just a year or two ago they were just tearing down Confederate statues.  As that pebble rolls down hill it’s picked up other rocks & gained speed.  Now it’s various Presidents (including Lincoln), Columbus, etc.  That’s the avalanche to which I refer.  What will it be next year? Reagan & JFK?  Wright brothers or Henry Ford?

 

33 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

.  As that pebble rolls down hill it’s picked up other rocks & gained speed.  

This just in.

The little mermaid in Copenhagen Harbor was vandalized as a “racist fish”.

[fork]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

Just a year or two ago they were just tearing down Confederate statues.  As that pebble rolls down hill it’s picked up other rocks & gained speed.  Now it’s various Presidents (including Lincoln), Columbus, etc.  That’s the avalanche to which I refer.  What will it be next year? Reagan & JFK?  Wright brothers or Henry Ford?

Let me be clear that I am not in favor of vandalism. I don't think people should be taking down public statues just because they want to. That's called anarchy and I'm not a fan.

However, citizens should petition their local city/state/etc government to take down racist monuments. And there should be no reason, in 2020, to keep confederate flags and generals around. But all this should go through a process, and government leaders should actually listen.

That's what should happen. A rational dialogue.

I personally think the bar should be not that the person represented is perfect, but what they are being celebrated for. We celebrate Washington for being the first president and leader of the revolution, despite being a slave owner, not because of it. Confederate soldiers however, are being celebrated for being, well, traitors. Take them down.

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

I graduated from Fort Lewis College,Durango,CO, 1988. While I attended school back in those days the mascot (sport teams) was called the Raiders. I never thought too much about it. Was kind of taken back when the college changed their sports name to the Sky Hawks. All I thought at the time was yes I think it was more fitting name due the campus sitting on top of mountain butte. The campus has very  picturesque views if you ever been  to Durango go vista the campus. Well for what it is worth. This name changing topic and yes possibly The Raiders (Fort Lewis’s former name) is not a very “nice” name for small college? I don’t know? I really don’t think too much about this sort of stuff. Other than I will be upset if Mount Rushmore is blown up. Stapleton- it will be interesting to see what name they come up with for their name change. Funny thing is all I can  remember about the old airport is that you had to put a coin in the toilet stall to use it. I must have been around 7 years old. - No need to do that at the new airport! Of all the interesting memories I have in life?!😂 

[mustang]

How about the Washington redskins just change their mascot to a potato?????

[gr8owl]

1 hour ago, mustang said:

How about the Washington redskins just change their mascot to a potato?????

 

Sooo ........................... you mean call them the potato skins?? 

[gr8owl]

I was kinda thinking maybe the Ba Skins  The way they have played for several years this could be purrfect. 

 

[Milos Vesely]

One of the suggestions that I've heard is the Redtails.    I believe this is an honorable and respectful nickname of the Tuskegee Airmen.  Since most of the players are black men, I would think it would be an honor to be called a Redtail.    And who knows, I've heard rumors of a Black National Anthem, if true that would tie it all together.  Redskin, like the N-word has one purpose and one purpose only, and that purpose is to dehumanize another human being based on  skin color, religion, mental ability, etc.

[Bit Banger]

2 hours ago, Milos Vesely said:

1) One of the suggestions that I've heard is the Redtails.    I believe this is an honorable and respectful nickname of the Tuskegee Airmen.  ...

2)... like the N-word has one purpose and one purpose only, and that purpose is to dehumanize another human being based on  skin color, religion, mental ability, etc.

1) Good suggestion

2) If this were true, why is it used so frequently in rap & hiphop?

[mustang]

7 hours ago, gr8owl said:

 

Sooo ........................... you mean call them the potato skins?? 

Not at all ....... most grocery stores sell redskin potatoes.

 

[JoDoe27]

4 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

1) Good suggestion

2) If this were true, why is it used so frequently in rap & hiphop?

Man, you really hate we can say something you can’t, don’t you? Like if I you ever referred your wife as a bitch but if I rolled into your house and called her as such you’d probably take serious offense to it. Here’s the thing, you can totally say it. It’s America. You can say whatever you want. Just prepare for whatever repercussions should follow. 

But if you want an answer...because we can. Because we took ownership of something you seem dying to being able to say. The only white people ever I hear  making the argument you’re attempting are the ones who can’t stand the fact they’re told no to something but ultimately angry they can’t call Black people racial slurs like the good old days. And for some reason you just skip over intent and history even though you’ve lived long enough to know better. From what I can tell you take umbrage with anything Black related when we don’t stay in our place and dare question some of the asinine antiquated views you keep perpetuating. I’m not going into Any sort of explanation trying to get you to understand black plight, culture, history, intricacies, or the struggle.  This ain’t The Green Book. You have access to the internet. Use it. Also, I personally don’t like the use by anyone, but I don’t speak for all Black people and I sure don’t chastise any Black person choosing to express themselves in a way that has literally no affect on your day to day. 

[frankenthaler91]

50 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

Man, you really hate we can say something you can’t, don’t you? Like if I you ever referred your wife as a bitch but if I rolled into your house and called her as such you’d probably take serious offense to it. Here’s the thing, you can totally say it. It’s America. You can say whatever you want. Just prepare for whatever repercussions should follow. 

But if you want an answer...because we can. Because we took ownership of something you seem dying to being able to say. The only white people ever I hear  making the argument you’re attempting are the ones who can’t stand the fact they’re told no to something but ultimately angry they can’t call Black people racial slurs like the good old days. And for some reason you just skip over intent and history even though you’ve lived long enough to know better. From what I can tell you take umbrage with anything Black related when we don’t stay in our place and dare question some of the asinine antiquated views you keep perpetuating. I’m not going into Any sort of explanation trying to get you to understand black plight, culture, history, intricacies, or the struggle.  This ain’t The Green Book. You have access to the internet. Use it. Also, I personally don’t like the use by anyone, but I don’t speak for all Black people and I sure don’t chastise any Black person choosing to express themselves in a way that has literally no affect on your day to day.

This must be the rational as to why there is no national outrage in the BLM ranks for the weekly slaughters in the city of Chicago. 

Will Rev Al attend these funerals? 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/7/5/21313171/fourth-july-weekend-chicago-gun-violence-homicide-shooting

 

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/28/21305237/chicago-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-june-26-29-2020