Drone surveillance or phone tracking for "virus"

[Laci French]

How far are we willing to go for this virus?  Looking forward to the discussion.

[rhood]

Who says that already does not happen?

[ilovewomen]

We already have HALO cameras in higher crime areas.We also have listening devices for gun shots.

But the use of drones and/or the tracking of our cell phones will definitely infringe on our civil rights. 

The use of drones or tracking cell phones will akin to chipping everybody.  It can be used to track our every movement and our movements.  That can be used against us to limit or prevent our movement around the country, just like a criminal who has to wear tracking device.

Needless to say, I am completely against this.

[Bit Banger]

Ah,  but the tracking data are already being collected by 3rd parties, often with our consent.  All LE needs is to show just cause for a subpoena of those records. That horse left the barn decades ago.

[gr8owl]

For cell phone turn off the gps function in phone and WIFI.  Just be willing to trade not being able to find nearest parking or restaurant or use maps etc.  Without the gps or WIFI they can't track.  If you really need those functions, turn back on, use, turn off.  Simple.

@bit banger  The original horse left the barn a long time ago, but Google and Apple are working in partnership on app specifically to track virus and contacts. The data collected would be yours AND those within a small distance of you for any length of time.  Both claim you can opt out.  It will probably be an "update" to the operating systems soon if not already.  Again turn off gps.

As far as drones, cameras on light poles and all the rest that result in photos, face recognition, tracking all when you are in public is nothing remotely new other than better technology.  There has never been any expectation of privacy in public places.  It just used to be very labor intensive to do surveillance.

[Bit Banger]

I’m not sure if there are any record kept, but ALL cell phones are tracked to nearest towers & signal strength.  It’s part of the tower handoff protocols. I’m not sure about when a phone is merely turned OFF,  but definitely not tracked when the SIM is pulled.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Bit Banger

[Phil-anderer]

Honestly, if I'm asked to download an app for GPS tracking of my movement, I'm fine with it, if it helps do contact tracing as the world starts to open back up.  It can be turned off, temporarily, as well.  

This will be an important tool to help us trace and contact people who are exposed to known cases.  That's my take - the phone companies and 3rd parties already know tons about me, so it's not that big of deal to me.  Then again, I'm in healthcare, and I see the benefit.  Most people would faint if they knew just how much of our info is already out there, anyway.  If I need to pop offline for an hour, I can turn my phone off.

[SixtiesDude]

34 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

I’m not sure if there are any record kept, but ALL cell phones are tracked to nearest towers & signal strength.  It’s part of the tower handoff protocols. I’m not sure about when a phone is merely turned OFF,  but definitely not tracked when the SIM is pulled.

From what I understand from an associate who has work in the tel-comm industry for 20 years, the location data is kept. They would need a warrant to get the data from the carrier.  The degree of accuracy varies depending on time of day, cell density, etc when the cell phone was used.

[Old_Timer]

I believe Patriot II has provisions for all the surveillance the government needs should they decide to do so.

Why would they do so?

Have you guys ever seen how Google can track your movements during the day from your TCP/IP addresses?

 

[rhood]

Like I said..who is to say they do not already to this.

[Nicholeofdenver]

Honestly if they want to track me so be it my life is not all that interesting. And I have nothing to hide, it is not like I am a mass murderer or anything crazy. The most exciting place I usually go to is Wal-Mart and Starbucks..LOL  Now I can see how being able to track the bad guys and murderers is a good thing.

[gr8owl]

4 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

I’m not sure if there are any record kept, but ALL cell phones are tracked to nearest towers & signal strength.  It’s part of the tower handoff protocols. I’m not sure about when a phone is merely turned OFF,  but definitely not tracked when the SIM is pulled.

 

3 hours ago, SixtiesDude said:

From what I understand from an associate who has work in the tel-comm industry for 20 years, the location data is kept. They would need a warrant to get the data from the carrier.  The degree of accuracy varies depending on time of day, cell density, etc when the cell phone was used.

Yes, the cell companies do.  But knowing which tower it pinged (my best understanding of accuracy usually available, large area) and knowing where it was within a few feet are two entirely different levels.  Let alone the ability to connect all other phones that were near yours and how long.  And no court order needed. 

As with almost every technological advance, will it be used for good or for bad,? Sadly the answer is usually both.  At risk of sounding like comic book!! 

Again, if real concerned shut off gps and wifi.

[JoDoe27]

11 hours ago, Laci French said:

How far are we willing to go for this virus?  Looking forward to the discussion.

What are your thoughts? I know you asked but I am curious. 

[BadBoy]

22 hours ago, Laci French said:

How far are we willing to go for this virus?  Looking forward to the discussion.

[Alex Majors]

Cell phones, as long as they are powered up, stay in constant contact with the nearest tower. Even when they are turned off. Yes telecom companies keep this information. Google knows your locations by your internet use. The only way in the past,  was to physically remove the battery from your phone. That solution no longer exists. Removing the sim card does not stop the wifi from searching out networks as you move.  A RF bag is one solution. It blocks your phone from sending or receiving a signal. Now the quality of the bag needs to be factored into your decision. Some are better than others. Just remember you can't be contacted as long as it is sheilded.

[Bit Banger]

1 minute ago, Alex Majors said:

 A RF bag is one solution. It blocks your phone from sending or receiving a signal. .... Just remember you can't be contacted as long as it is sheilded.

Well, you could move into a Faraday cage 😁

[Alex Majors]

A Faraday cage will only shield you from a electrical discharge. Radio signals go through the metal mesh of the cage. Maybe a metal shipping container would be better.

[Bit Banger]

Actually during my 31E* training at Ft. Gordon, GA, we used a grounded copper mesh cage to isolate us from stray RF signals for some circuit diagnostics.

 

* 31E = Radio Repair technician.  I was also a 05B, radio operator.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Bit Banger

[pfunk]

On 4/23/2020 at 1:17 PM, ilovewomen said:

The use of drones or tracking cell phones will akin to chipping everybody.  It can be used to track our every movement and our movements.  That can be used against us to limit or prevent our movement around the country, just like a criminal who has to wear tracking device.

Needless to say, I am completely against this.

If someone is infected and contagious, with Covid-19, I want them to be seperated from those not yet infected. Until we have a herd immunity, it's the only tool we have to slow the infection rate.  

We are at war with the virus. Some civil liberties, for infected individuals, may need to be temporarily suspended.

Either that, or just let the virus run rampant, until we have herd immunity. I'd guess more will die with the second option.

[Bit Banger]

The social distancing was intended to flatten the curve and move the peak, allowing more time to prepare for the onslaught.  Having better/more treatment resources will likely save some lives.  However the area under the curve (lives lost) will not change much.

[Bit Banger]

21 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

The social distancing was intended to flatten the curve and move the peak, ...

I should point out that these curves assume we will NOT find a treatment or vaccine, but do presume that we will develop some form of herd immunity.

[ilovewomen]

49 minutes ago, pfunk said:

If someone is infected and contagious, with Covid-19, I want them to be seperated from those not yet infected. Until we have a herd immunity, it's the only tool we have to slow the infection rate.  

We are at war with the virus. Some civil liberties, for infected individuals, may need to be temporarily suspended.

Either that, or just let the virus run rampant, until we have herd immunity. I'd guess more will die with the second option.

Sweden has taken the herd immunity approach and their infection and death rates are not higher than the United States.

They expect to be basically fully herd immunized within a few more weeks....while we won’t be.

[frankenthaler91]

58 minutes ago, pfunk said:

If someone is infected and contagious, with Covid-19, I want them to be seperated from those not yet infected. Until we have a herd immunity, it's the only tool we have to slow the infection rate.  

We are at war with the virus. Some civil liberties, for infected individuals, may need to be temporarily suspended.

Either that, or just let the virus run rampant, until we have herd immunity. I'd guess more will die with the second option.

If we seperate those infected, we will not achieve herd immunity.  

Edited April 24, 2020 by frankenthaler91

[Old_Timer]

3 minutes ago, frankenthaler91 said:

If we seperate those infected, we will not achieve herd immunity.  

Herd immunity occurs when a significant portion of the population are vaccinated against the virus or bacteria.

 

[frankenthaler91]

4 minutes ago, Old_Timer said:

Herd immunity occurs when a significant portion of the population are vaccinated against the virus or bacteria.

 

Or enough of the population have been exposed and are now immune.  Thus, the likelyhood of a pathogin finding a new host is low.  

[mustang]

I have taken to leaving my real world phone at home whenever I go out.  I DO have an old school lead bag for film protection that would likely work, but you would "pop up" anytime you took the phone out of the bag.  New Mexocp is already tracking our movements via our cell phones.  "No real information" is supposed to be available, and "I didn't have sex with that women"

[Laci French]

27 minutes ago, mustang said:

I have taken to leaving my real world phone at home whenever I go out.  I DO have an old school lead bag for film protection that would likely work, but you would "pop up" anytime you took the phone out of the bag.  New Mexocp is already tracking our movements via our cell phones.  "No real information" is supposed to be available, and "I didn't have sex with that women"

I had sex with her😉💦

[ilovewomen]

2 hours ago, Old_Timer said:

Herd immunity occurs when a significant portion of the population are vaccinated against the virus or bacteria.

 

Or when a significant segment of the population has been exposed and either gets the infection or proves to be resistant to the virus.

Just like “childhood“ illnesses like measles, chicken pox, mumps, there is probably a very small segment of the world population that is resistant to the virus. I’m guessing this segment may be 1% or 2%.

I could be wrong in my assumption about the segment of the population being resistant.

[Laci French]

On 4/24/2020 at 0:17 AM, JoDoe27 said:

What are your thoughts? I know you asked but I am curious. 

I don't agree with the use of drones or phones to track for the virus. 

I believe the tracking would be used for many other things outside of the virus.

 

[Bit Banger]

4 minutes ago, Laci French said:

...

I believe the tracking would be used for many other things outside of the virus.

 

Agreed!  Once the tech is developed, folks will find other uses.  {sarcasm}For our own benefit of course.  If we’re not doing anything “wrong” there’s no need to worry. {/sarcasm}

However I do like the tech displayed on ‘60 Minutes’ last night being used at one of the auto plants converted to make ventilators (Ford or GM).  Every worker wears a watch which pings when it gets w/in 6’ of another watch.  The two watches exchange IDs for contact mapping. That way if someone gets sick, they know who else to isolate.