FYI: Greeley Sting & Shooting

[mrvegas63]

http://www.greeleytribune.com/news/11516588-113/greeley-police-investigation-officers

[pitbull]

Interesting. I did not know that Greeley LE were so interested in BackPage. It's too bad, because they could be spending time on stopping real crime.

[BenThere]

Pulling a gun on cops is suicidal. Cops having to kill someone attempting to get laid is the ultimate in the misuse and misdirection of public services.

Cops are misled into thinking that they a helping stem a largely nonexistent human trafficking problem.

[fortysomething]

Although it's a perfect example of our little piggies hardly at work, who the fuck brings a gun to see an escort?

[Relvis]

I find it funny how LE gets such a bad rep around here. Who are you going to call when your house gets broken into, you get into an accident.....

The last thing those "little piggies" wanted to do was shoot a guy. In reality it is his own fault - he got caught in a sting, pulled a gun on an office and was shot.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Relvis
I know how to spell;)

[Lucy Kitten]

Although it's a perfect example of our little piggies hardly at work, who the fuck brings a gun to see an escort?

You would be surprised, I had it happen at least once that I know of and he told me about it before he showed up.

I will be curious to hear more about this story, details seem limited for now and it seems kinda fishy. It's very unfortunate when stuff likes this happens, it makes us all look bad.

[Guest]

Jesus, they shot and KILLED him? I'm not saying he shouldn't have known better, but it's a damn shame that this had to happen over fucking prostitution.

[fork]

Although it's a perfect example of our little piggies hardly at work, who the fuck brings a gun to see an escort?

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35220

[Whatdah]

Jesus, they shot and KILLED him? I'm not saying he shouldn't have known better, but it's a damn shame that this had to happen over fucking prostitution.

the death did not happen over a prostitute, it happened because the guy pulled a gun.

[fork]

the death did not happen over a prostitute, it happened because the guy pulled a gun.

Any number of things could have prevented this.

1) prostitution was legalized

2) sting didn't happen

3) guy did better research on who he was seeing

4) guy left the gun at home

5) guy didn't stupidly pull the gun

There's no single cause in a complicated chain of events.

Possibly, the guy reacted before realizing it was a cop and isn't as stupid as we assume. If I was in a session and the door flew open, I wouldn't necessarily think it was a cop. It could be a pimp about to rob me. Potentially the sting wasn't handled well.

[Audrey Astor]

I find it funny how LE gets such a bad rep around here. Who are you going to call when your house gets broken into, you get into an accident.....

The last thing those "little piggies" wanted to do was shoot a guy. In reality it is his own fault - he got caught in a sting, pulled a gun on an office and was shot.

Ha, isn't that cute? Have you called them lately? They have NEVER helped me with anything, but they are great at harassment. LOL Go ahead, and call though...

As for me.... I have my own protection for the next asshole that wants to break in my house.

The guy should have known better, yes. Did he deserve to die, IDK.. I was not there.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

Last I heard, hooking and solicitation are real crimes in CO.

[Bigguy]

There are a lot of people who feel the need to always carry a gun. They aren't smart enough to realize that carrying a gun greatly increases you odds of being shot. As has been mention before pulling a gun on police is usually fatal. This was just Darwin at work.

[Bit Banger]

... Possibly, the guy reacted before realizing it was a cop and isn't as stupid as we assume. If I was in a session and the door flew open, I wouldn't necessarily think it was a cop. It could be a pimp about to rob me. Potentially the sting wasn't handled well.

This makes a LOT of sense to me. Pimp & robbery would be my first thought. Notice that this sting was a follow-up to a previous sting in which they picked up 3 BP advertising escorts. Perhaps that confused his research.

I know a number of people who "carry". Their rule is carry ALL the time, your gun is worthless sitting in the safe (or dresser drawer).

[Bit Banger]

How often do you eat at Luby's?

[Jez UaBriain]

I believe Fork has pegged this tragedy right. The deceased man probably immediately assumed that he was about to be robbed by his lady lusts pimp/or boyfriend and their buddies. Unfortunately, the boys behind the badge shoot first, ask questions later. I feel the utmost sympathy for this man’s family and his loss of life, and his manner of death. His employers, co-workers, etc. now will be aware of what and how. If he has a wife? This is a tragedy, period.

Another member said he thought we all come down on LE hard. And also stated something to this affect” What about when you need them”, “what are you going to think then?” I feel this way. Whenever I have needed a blue clad civil servant, they do not show up till hours later. And then they are arrogant chest thumpers at best. I make no bones about how I feel about LE here. I have never met a “nice” one. I put my hands on my steering wheel and wait for them to come up to my driver’s door before I reach for my credentials to operate my vehicle. They are human, and they immediately jumped to their own agenda when this man brought his gun out.

So much for our ‘well trained’ public heroes. They rid the community of a guy who just wanted to get laid. I just hope he was not one of the TOB community. Then I would feel really (more so) sad.

That agenda is a human reaction to a situation that has just taken a dramatic twist. The hooker/ client scenario has just now become a really bad, stereo-typical one. Our so called civil heroes who are supposed to be trained in the powers of conflict resolution, citizen safety, etc,.etc., now react in a scared joe citizen *who has not had this training, fashion. And because of this, a man is dead.

Sure he put himself in that position, it was his choice. He is still- dead. And his survivor’s, and the officers involved in this- will have to live with his bad decision. It still does not make this right, or wrong.

[Crazy Horse]

Until more details come out it's hard to tell which if not both parties were at fault. I doubt that the internal investigation by the PD or one by the DA will find any fault in the officers involved; that's just the way the system works.

Although they are the natural enemies of our hobby/profession I'll say that I have met some very nice officers even though they are few and far between. I'd hate to have a job were your training and day to day experiences teach them to be paranoid/suspicious of all the civilians they run across. It gives them that shoot first ask questions later mentality; for example remember the cop that killed another cop just a couple years ago here in town. Yes it was dark and they were searching for an armed suspect but the cop definitely violated one of the basic rules of firearm safety by firing his gun before identifying his target.

I can see were the fault in this case could be set at the feet of both parties. Yes the guy was stupid for pulling a gun at police but if the female undercover cop was even semi good looking the blood had probably already started rushing from the big head to the little one and having a bunch of plain clothed big burly guys bust into the room he reacted without thinking. Reacting without thinking is probably what the officers did also. Did they try to identify themselves as officers or tell him to drop the gun before firing. As I said at the beginning we'll have to wait for further details but in any case it is a tragedy.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[lilithia]

Le having a bad rap has nothing to do with this board, they have a bad rap in general and though out our society. I detest LE but if I need them to do their JOB I will be dialing 911.

In many ways our jobs are not much different its high risk and very little reward. And in they end no one gives a shit. To them we the Citizens are they enemy no matter how vanilla you are.

The days of protect and serve are long gone. Today it is to kill and kill bully beat down and ask questions later.

Lilithia

[mrvegas63]

I did not know that Greeley LE were so interested in BackPage.

From the article, not just BP:

although these arrests stemmed from an investigation into a single website, there are others police continue to monitor

Though no one should be surprised.

[lilithia]

you are correct the sting went dreadfully wrong. If I were a man I would be soo scared to see a new lady and she be LE, hell they might shoot you if you make the wrong move.

And in all places Greely.

My condolences to the family;

Lilithia

[Archetype]

They are human, and they immediately jumped to their own agenda when this man brought his gun out.

So much for our ‘well trained’ public heroes. They rid the community of a guy who just wanted to get laid.

Whaaaaaa?

Look, I can easily see both sides of the "I hate cops/I love cops" issue. I have several friends who are cops, and in my opinion, they do their jobs well. I've also met some really terrible cops, and I've had my own bad experiences with cops.

But, come on...there's no "agenda" here. They did exactly what they were trained to do. Some idiot pulls his gun over this arrest - what are the cops supposed to do? "Oh, hey wait...put that down. That's a gun! That's dangerous!" This wasn't the case of pulling a knife or throwing a punch. You pull a gun on a cop, expect to get shot. There's really no other way for that situation to resolve. All it takes is one second of hesitation of one of the cops' part, and he's potentially dead.

[Bit Banger]

Whaaaaaa?

Look, I can easily see both sides of the "I hate cops/I love cops" issue. I have several friends who are cops, and in my opinion, they do their jobs well. I've also met some really terrible cops, and I've had my own bad experiences with cops.

But, come on...there's no "agenda" here. They did exactly what they were trained to do. Some idiot pulls his gun over this arrest - what are the cops supposed to do? "Oh, hey wait...put that down. That's a gun! That's dangerous!" This wasn't the case of pulling a knife or throwing a punch. You pull a gun on a cop, expect to get shot. There's really no other way for that situation to resolve. All it takes is one second of hesitation of one of the cops' part, and he's potentially dead.

On this I heartily agree, both points.

I know "good" cops & of some truely horrible cops. You should hear some of the stories good cops tell complaining about bad cops!

Responding as trained? Sounds about right - on both sides of the scenario. As others have said, we don't know the sequence of events in that hotel room. I would surmise that all parties involved reacted to what they perceived as a dangerous situation. Who created that situation? Again,we don't know! But I would guess that there will be some procedural changes for future sting operations.

[MrReindeer-9515]

On this I heartily agree, both points.

I know "good" cops & of some truely horrible cops. You should hear some of the stories good cops tell complaining about bad cops!

Responding as trained? Sounds about right - on both sides of the scenario. As others have said, we don't know the sequence of events in that hotel room. I would surmise that all parties involved reacted to what they perceived as a dangerous situation. Who created that situation? Again,we don't know! But I would guess that there will be some procedural changes for future sting operations.

I agree with the quote you referenced wholeheartedly, but in re the bold part of your post: I vehemently disagree. We know exactly who created the situation: the fucktard that brought a sidearm to an ASP appointment. Wrong gun, for the wrong business.

While there is always the possibility of getting "rolled", keep in mind the penalty for robbery is not a death sentence; OTOH, pulling a gun on a cop can carry the ultimate consequences. Maybe a better use of everybody's time and effort would be to change the Law; instead of whining about "the fuckin' pigs".

[lilithia]

are you whining about the law or "the fuck'in pigs" I am confused. I know for a fact I will not go stick my neck out to change no Prostitution law nor do I believe anyone else here Jon or ASP is ready to fill those shoes.

As for the "fuc'in pigs well there just fuc'in pigs can't change that either . And they are going to get worse.

[MrReindeer-9515]

are you whining about the law or "the fuck'in pigs" I am confused. I know for a fact I will not go stick my neck out to change no Prostitution law nor do I believe anyone else here Jon or ASP is ready to fill those shoes.

As for the "fuc'in pigs well there just fuc'in pigs can't change that either . And they are going to get worse.

No, I am not.

The police officers in this situation are the only ones that have my sympathy.

If you don't agree/like the law, change it; but don't piss and moan about them doing(in some cases) a very difficult job.

Edited May 22, 2014 by MrReindeer
Science!

[pitbull]

I find it funny how LE gets such a bad rep around here. Who are you going to call when your house gets broken into, you get into an accident.....

The last thing those "little piggies" wanted to do was shoot a guy. In reality it is his own fault - he got caught in a sting, pulled a gun on an office and was shot.

Sorry, Relvis, but the cops will show up to take away the bodies. I agree with Holly. I would not call the cops, I would "take care of" the intruder in my home. Cops with a sense of entitlement and a power trip are capable of many bad things -- including an itchy trigger finger. However, I have no clue as to what happened in this situation, so I'm not even commenting on that. I agree that any prostitution sting -- other than one that is TRULY aimed at stopping trafficking -- is a complete waste of time and resources.

[Bit Banger]

1) I'm not whining about " fuc'n pigs". Both sides of this situation bear some blame.

2) Agreed - We need to get the law changed. Are you starting a petition? I'll sign.

3) Do you have any words of wisdom for how to behave when someone bursts into a private cash transaction, on how to avoid being beaten & robbed? ( Yeah, I know - be more careful about with whom you do business. )

4) Why do people carry sidearms? Because cops are too heavy.

[Jez UaBriain]

Pulling a gun on cops is suicidal. Cops having to kill someone attempting to get laid is the ultimate in the misuse and misdirection of public services.

Cops are misled into thinking that they a helping stem a largely nonexistent human trafficking problem.

When they set up a sting to catch the ladies, they do it not to catch human trafficking here in the metro area- because it is a rare occurrence- but they do it because we are easy. Nobody gets hurt, usually. And they can chest thump around pretty girls, and treat us as lessor human beings. Because they are of course , far better then lowly prostitutes and their clients. Sometimes they can see nudity. I talked with a fairly new girl who was almost naked when they burst in the hotel room. The undercover officer didn't have to do that........get her to start stripping before pulling the plug. That is just plain mean. She is not naïve any more after that humiliation.

When we are young, we are told that 'COPS are YOUR friend". Yeah, right, stupid me, I believed them. They lie, and they are arrogant beyond belief. These are not what I call nice human beings....

,

[MrReindeer-9515]

1) I'm not whining about " fuc'n pigs". Both sides of this situation bear some blame.

2) Agreed - We need to get the law changed. Are you starting a petition? I'll sign.

3) Do you have any words of wisdom for how to behave when someone bursts into a private cash transaction, on how to avoid being beaten & robbed? ( Yeah, I know - be more careful about with whom you do business. )

4) Why do people carry sidearms? Because cops are too heavy.

1. Sorry, the "whining about the fuckin' pigs" comment wasn't directed specifically at you; it was a more general commentary directed at the geniuses posting in this thread that can't seem to find a good thing to say about cops, but do plenty of whining because previous interactions didn't go in their favor.

2. No, I'm not starting any petitions; but I may sign one.

3. Very few words of wisdom other than: give em what you got, and do your best to get away before you get your ass kicked. When it's all over, reflect on the following:

It's a dangerous business. You may get rolled, robbed, or arrested. It's fucked up, but it's inherent in this illegal, dangerous activity. Definitively however, all the available evidence tends to suggest that bringing a sidearm to an incall is a colossally stupid decision.

4. LOL!

[lilithia]

the cops have your sympathy really, if and when the laws does change no one is going to like it. It will not change a thing more but more regulations which would include Jons having to show proof of ID. You know like the Escort License that is now required but not in forced, which is a good thing because who wants their id on paper, right.

A lot of ladies would be ran out of business have to stop escorting or run the risk that we are taking now so again nothing would change but the prices and not for the better.

So take your ATF cop for some coffee and donuts

have a great Memorial weekend!!!