Drivers and disclosure.

[demonlover]

Since its so cold out, I hope this throws a bit of gasoline on a fire or two:

What, if anything, should a provider say up front regarding having a driver?

Recently, I walked a provider to my door after a wonderful first time together. Her car was in my driveway. She left, and to my surprise, walked around to the passenger side of her car, got in and drove off. Discounting the possibility that her car was from the UK and had right-hand drive, I concluded that she had a driver. I about freaked out - someone had been sitting in my driveway for the last hour and I didn't even know about it? I find that shit very upsetting.

I understand and appreciate fully that she needed to feel safe, especially since it was our first time, and that maybe having a friend close by helped. Or perhaps she simply couldn't or didn't want to drive. So, I'm not freaked out by her having a driver - I was freaked out by not knowing and so not being allowed to choose if I was comfortable with somebody sitting in my driveway like that. Maybe I stretching this, but I think the term "independent" means not only agency-free but everybody-free, as in she shows up by herself.

I have no doubt that she meant no lack of respect or discretion and just didn't think a driver was a problem; and I have talked to her and all is forgiven and forgotten. However, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you:

Is it a provider's responsibility to mention up front that she has a driver? Is it a hobbyist's responsibility to ask? Am I being reasonable to be miffed to find somebody sitting in a car in my driveway for an hour? Or am I just being a pathetic weenie loser wannabe crybaby who should just get over his shit and move on?

Have fun with this & I'll now don the asbestos undies...

[2Big]

Having some dude sitting in your driveway is incredibly stupid and clueless. Name and shame the provider in your review.

If I were your neighbor, I would have called 5/0 to investigate. Not good for you.

Stay away from girls who are so incompetent that they need a nanny to take them to their appointments.

(Hint: don't do outcalls if you don't have a way to get there under your own steam).

[Guest Jake]

No good! I've had girls to my place, and until recently, I actually preferred it. I would usually meet them in the driveway, so it left little doubt that they were driving. Frankly, I don't think I would fully enjoy myself if I knew there was someone else on my property....wondering what they were doing:mad:

I support the girl's right to safety...but I support yours too. Full disclosure was in order. You deserve the right to decide what you're comfortable with as well.

Since its so cold out, I hope this throws a bit of gasoline on a fire or two:

What, if anything, should a provider say up front regarding having a driver?

Recently, I walked a provider to my door after a wonderful first time together. Her car was in my driveway. She left, and to my surprise, walked around to the passenger side of her car, got in and drove off. Discounting the possibility that her car was from the UK and had right-hand drive, I concluded that she had a driver. I about freaked out - someone had been sitting in my driveway for the last hour and I didn't even know about it? I find that shit very upsetting.

I understand and appreciate fully that she needed to feel safe, especially since it was our first time, and that maybe having a friend close by helped. Or perhaps she simply couldn't or didn't want to drive. So, I'm not freaked out by her having a driver - I was freaked out by not knowing and so not being allowed to choose if I was comfortable with somebody sitting in my driveway like that. Maybe I stretching this, but I think the term "independent" means not only agency-free but everybody-free, as in she shows up by herself.

I have no doubt that she meant no lack of respect or discretion and just didn't think a driver was a problem; and I have talked to her and all is forgiven and forgotten. However, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you:

Is it a provider's responsibility to mention up front that she has a driver? Is it a hobbyist's responsibility to ask? Am I being reasonable to be miffed to find somebody sitting in a car in my driveway for an hour? Or am I just being a pathetic weenie loser wannabe crybaby who should just get over his shit and move on?

Have fun with this & I'll now don the asbestos undies...

[stevie]

They could of dropped her off and waited down the street, but in your driveway? Just plain stupidity!

[Bit Banger]

They could of dropped her off and waited down the street, but in your driveway? Just plain stupidity!

And what is to say that this isn't what happened?

You had an hour booked, right? Perhaps the driver made a timed appearance a few minutes prior to her walking out the door, or on command from a phone message as she cleaned up after the fun & games.

There are LOTs of reasons for a driver:

1) Security, if needed.

2) Anti-DUI should she imbibe during the session

3) Her car isn't sitting in your driveway for the hour

[Guest sophiarose]

I agree with 2Big for the most part. Having someone sitting in your driveway running the car on and off looks super suspect (its cold, I would assume they would not sit there with the car off for an hour). Best case, she sent the driver a text to pick her up when she was done.

I always clarify before any outcall where they would like me to park. I have not had anyone tell me otherwise than to park in the driveway. Simple communication beforehand helps a lot, but it's surprising how many people forget about it. Its a matter of being considerate and respectful of the other person's situation and wishes.

Consider it a learning situation...if I were you I would ask in the future just in case. I wouldn't expect all providers to know this is important to some people. Just because they should know doesn't mean they would know

[Guest TuWongFu]

Since its so cold out, I hope this throws a bit of gasoline on a fire or two:

What, if anything, should a provider say up front regarding having a driver?

Recently, I walked a provider to my door after a wonderful first time together. Her car was in my driveway. She left, and to my surprise, walked around to the passenger side of her car, got in and drove off. Discounting the possibility that her car was from the UK and had right-hand drive, I concluded that she had a driver. I about freaked out - someone had been sitting in my driveway for the last hour and I didn't even know about it? I find that shit very upsetting.

I understand and appreciate fully that she needed to feel safe, especially since it was our first time, and that maybe having a friend close by helped. Or perhaps she simply couldn't or didn't want to drive. So, I'm not freaked out by her having a driver - I was freaked out by not knowing and so not being allowed to choose if I was comfortable with somebody sitting in my driveway like that. Maybe I stretching this, but I think the term "independent" means not only agency-free but everybody-free, as in she shows up by herself.

I have no doubt that she meant no lack of respect or discretion and just didn't think a driver was a problem; and I have talked to her and all is forgiven and forgotten. However, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask you:

Is it a provider's responsibility to mention up front that she has a driver? Is it a hobbyist's responsibility to ask? Am I being reasonable to be miffed to find somebody sitting in a car in my driveway for an hour? Or am I just being a pathetic weenie loser wannabe crybaby who should just get over his shit and move on?

Have fun with this & I'll now don the asbestos undies...

I have a brilliant idea! When setting up the appointment mention you don't want a driver waiting in your driveway. Tadaaaah!

[demonlover]

It seems that the point of my question is already well on its way to being missed. My question does not debate the need for safety (of course providers and hobbyists need to do things to stay safe) nor does it concern anyone's "rights" to safety and/or security. Its not a driver vs. no driver question.

I ask again:

If a provider has a driver*, is it her responsibility to tell the hobbyist beforehand, in the interest of full disclosure and so that the hobbyist can make a more informed decision? Or is driver disclosure really trivial, or perhaps a fine thing to do but not truly necessary?

Experience tells me that the default condition for an out is the provider arriving by herself unless I've been notified otherwise. Is that incorrect? Do I really need to ask each provider if she arrives alone or not?

(taking off my sweats and going again for the nomex...)

* - kind of rhymes, doesn't it?

[Guest sophiarose]

Yes you do need to ask, read what I stated above. You should also tell the provider where you prefer she park etc etc. Not all providers think to ask, or care, and to assume so would be putting yourself in the situation you were just in.

If it matters to you, you should let the provider know before hand as with anything else (overly done makeup, lack of clothes etc etc).

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

What difference does it make unless they hang out in front of your place? She only needs to let you know if the driver is going to come in with her or hang out in front of your place.

[2Big]

Avail yourself of a higher class of escort, and you won't have this problem.

There, I solved your problem.

[Bit Banger]

Avail yourself of a higher class of escort, and you won't have this problem.

There, I solved your problem.

Actually, I would suggest the opposite. The higher on the food chain, the more likely she has a driver.

[demonlover]

What difference does it make unless they hang out in front of your place? She only needs to let you know if the driver is going to come in with her or hang out in front of your place.

Um, hello? Didn't really read my OP, didja? My problem is that after an hour of bliss I come to find out that, as far as I could tell, THERE WAS SOMEONE HANGING OUT IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE! And probably for the entire hour preceding. Got it now? Good.

As for the case of the driver "going to come in with her"? Honestly, are you out of your mind? Not Gonna Happen. Ever. If a provider even asked me about that, let alone attempted to do it, she would hear nothing but the sound of crickets chirping as I closed and locked my door on her. Totally unprofessional: its extremely indiscreet and makes me concerned about my safety.

<insert sound of weary sigh about here>

One mo time:

If a provider chooses to use a driver for whatever reason(s) and in whatever capacity, should she let me know up front so that if its not OK with me (again, for whatever reasons) I can cancel? Or is it incumbent on me to ask first?

(If your not asleep yet, I'm going to write a bit more and post it in a bit, addressing the "is there a responsibility here, and if so, to whom does it belong" question. Stay tuned. Or not.)

[frankenthaler91]

Having only 1 ASP over to my place, and she drove herself. IDK.

On the surface there seems to be no difference between having a friend drop her off in a car verses having a taxi drop her off. As long as the friend disappears.

As mentioned, she may have summoned her driver back to your place while in the bathroom cleaning up after your game a twister.

If you feel it's necessary to ask while setting up the meet, do so.

If you don't and someone is in the car when you open the door to invite her in, spend a little 'get to know you' time in the living room. Then do a driveway check a couple minutes later. If he/she is still in the driveway, kick her out.

[demonlover]

Here's where my thinking is going:

In many ways, having a driver is like having a phone person. (Please grant me the obvious differences for the moment so we can keep moving, OK?). In each case, the provider has chosen to work with someone else for convenience, safety, perhaps to share resources, or whatever reasons. In other words, she has hired a helper. No prob at all so far.

If I were to contact a provider, especially by phone, and someone clearly not the provider answered the phone, I would hang up immediately and I would not contact the provider again. UNLESS I knew up front that she uses a phone person. Most (all?) providers who use a phone person state so clearly; and this gives me the choice of calling or not depending on if its OK or not with me to talk to another person. Again, no prob, no harm, no foul.

Now, what if, when contacting the provider, someone other than her answered her phone or returned my message? That's a MAJOR red flag to me. Dive Dive Dive. Prepare to submerge, close all watertight doors, etc.! So, how is an unexpected driver any different than an unexpected phone person? Except that the unexpected driver may pose a threat to my privacy and/or security.

The crux: I am upset that a provider would include another person in our interaction - however peripherally and with whatever intentions - without my knowledge and/or consent. I think its very unprofessional.* Really, is it any different than showing up at an incall only to find out someone else is in the next room? <insert sound of me moving slowly, cautiously, but inexorably for the door in such situations. YMMV>.

And I don't think that its my responsibility to ask after all, because: a) it seems that not having a driver (or a phone person for that matter) is the more-or-less norm here, and so bringing a driver is the exception; I can't see how not bringing a driver is simply a hobbyist preference, like requesting a certain type of outfit or makeup or perfume; and c) I do everything I can to make the provider comfortable and at ease - especially one who does not know me- as so I expect the same. I can't see how its my job to ask about a driver in the same way I don't think its my job to ask if she's bringing her children to wait in her car.

As far as "class of escort" (and I'm pretty sure you meant cost instead of class), I have hobbied up and down the scale and in many different places and while I have found some correlation between (ahem) class and professionalism, its not especially strong. I've been with more, shall we say, "earthy" providers and more "ethereal" providers and its never occurred to me that one (ugh) class of provider is any smarter, nicer, more discreet, and/or more professional than any other (although I would guess that the incidence of really nice "bolt-ons" is much higher as the cost increases. Just a guess of course, but I just wanted to use the term "bolt-ons". I think thats fucking hysterical. Bolt-ons. Hehehe. Thanks to whomever coined that phrase. But I digress...). And since the provider referred to above was indeed on the upper end of the proverbial food chain, I guess the "class of escort" argument is blown to shit.

And so, dear readers, I thank you all for allowing me to process this in a safe and knowledgeable environment. Writing and reading these posts has brought some clarity to me, although of course YMMV.

Peace on earth, and may Dog bless us, everyone.

* - no providers or hobbyists were harmed in the making of this movie. I called her as soon as she left and explained that I was upset, and her reply was caring, concerned, and professional. Perhaps it simply hadn't occurred to her that having her driver wait would be objectionable. We didn't argue at all, she apologized sincerely, and all was forgotten and forgiven instantly. Shit just happens, eh?

[ddog]

You hired an escort to come to your house, you are worried that said escorts driver was in your driveway for the hour.

I feel if it is best to never hobby on your home turf. To many problems can arise there, be the road team.

[Bit Banger]

...

And I don't think that its my responsibility to ask after all, because: a) it seems that not having a driver (or a phone person for that matter) is the more-or-less norm here, and so bringing a driver is the exception; I can't see how not bringing a driver is simply a hobbyist preference, like requesting a certain type of outfit or makeup or perfume; and c) I do everything I can to make the provider comfortable and at ease - especially one who does not know me- as so I expect the same. I can't see how its my job to ask about a driver in the same way I don't think its my job to ask if she's bringing her children to wait in her car. ...

If it is important to you, it is your responsibility to clarify the situation. This applies to so many aspects of these interactions.

Having a driver may not be the norm in this area, but it is in some areas. I have a friend who earns a few extra bucks now & then driving ladies to appointments. Some don't have DLs, some don't want to risk a DUI, some are navigationally challenged. Considering that he also partakes on occassion, I doubt that he hangs around. I'll ask next time I see him (in a few months).

BTW: In your post-departure phone conversation, did she tell you that the driver had been sitting there for the duration? Or is it still possible the driver dropped her off, and later picked her up based on some trigger (time, phone call, etc)?

[2Big]

I have a friend who earns a few extra bucks now & then driving ladies to appointments. Some don't have DLs, some don't want to risk a DUI, some are navigationally challenged. Considering that he also partakes on occassion, I doubt that he hangs around.

As I said earlier, providers who need a driver belong to a lower tier of working girls. Best to avoid those deadbeats and the drivers they bring around.

I'll repeat my mantra:

Don't book an outcall if you can't get to the outcall on your own.

[gr8owl]

Just my opinion, but any lady that sees a guy for the first time at his home and doesn't have a driver or other backup near by does not know what she is doing and is sooner or later going to be mugged, robbed or worse. The driver should not hang in the driveway without prior ok from client (and even then shouldn't). If a second person being "involved" bothers you then stop doing outcalls to your home. Which in my further opinion simply invites all manner of problems for you anyway when your flavor of the week or ATF goes psycho on you. And I don't want to hear about "well known", "well reviewed", etc. Some of those occassionally go off the rails too. When they do, better they do not know where you live. JMHO

[Bit Banger]

... Some don't have DLs, some don't want to risk a DUI, some are navigationally challenged. ...

As I said earlier, providers who need a driver belong to a lower tier of working girls. Best to avoid those deadbeats and the drivers they bring around.

...

In some parts of the country (major urban centers), a significant portion of the population do NOT have DL as they rely on public transportation, which beats the time & hassles of owning a personal car. Having a private car/limo has long been considered a characteristic of the upper class. So if a gal leaves to the driving to a professional, she can attend to other details w/in her area of expertise.

So in this instance, I would say that you, 2Big, are WRONG!

[fork]

Just my opinion, but any lady that sees a guy for the first time at his home and doesn't have a driver or other backup near by does not know what she is doing and is sooner or later going to be mugged, robbed or worse. The driver should not hang in the driveway without prior ok from client (and even then shouldn't).

Agreed.

Also, I would think that if a guy asks the girl if she has a driver, under the threat of not seeing her if she does, then you can't blame her for feeling like maybe he IS a threat and will mug, rob, or do worse.

Still, if a driver is a big problem then ask tactfully.

[Guest sophiarose]

You're right, just your opinion. Speaking as someone who has done outcalls on and off for ten years, not one thing even remotely close to bad has happened to me. It seems silly to assume that something bad is more likely to happen to a lady on an outcall to a home than at a lady's own incall.

Maybe I was taught well by highly professional ladies. Your opinion is your opinion, I do agree that some people lack common sense. I for one am not one of them.

[2Big]

In some parts of the country (major urban centers), a significant portion of the population do NOT have DL as they rely on public transportation, which beats the time & hassles of owning a personal car. Having a private car/limo has long been considered a characteristic of the upper class. So if a gal leaves to the driving to a professional, she can attend to other details w/in her area of expertise.

So in this instance, I would say that you, 2Big, are WRONG!

If you live in a "major urban center", the take the bus or get a cab.

And, yarite, these drivers are "professionals".

[BigBaldBlk]

...

I ask again:

If a provider has a driver*, is it her responsibility to tell the hobbyist beforehand, in the interest of full disclosure and so that the hobbyist can make a more informed decision? Or is driver disclosure really trivial, or perhaps a fine thing to do but not truly necessary?...

Well, since the question was never addressed by you or her, the question is hard to answer. Like many other's have stated, I prefer not to have an outcall to my home. Like Jake & Sophia said, I would let the lady know where to park and view her coming up the driveway. Unless she drives an Autobot and the car takes off, than it is safe to assume she drove by herself. If the car takes off, you want to address it with her right then and there on the spot.

So, in a round about way, it is the Provider's responsibility to tell you if she has a driver or not. It is YOUR responsibility to see if she's telling the truth!

[Bit Banger]

And, yarite, these drivers are "professionals".

Somehow, I expected this response when I wrote that. And in a significant number of the cases, you're probably correct.

But there's nothing which says the driver & car are not a licensed livery.

[macho]

After reading OP's comments I have agree that you are a "pathetic weenie loser wannabe crybaby who should just get over his shit and move on?" I guess really solved your problem.

[Guest Trefoil]

Providers who add a 3rd party (drivers, bookers) are putting clients at additional risk. There is now someone else who is privy to your info and you have no clue who they are or, in the case of bookers, where they are located. That said, many providers tell a friend about their appointments so that he/she can check on them to make sure that nothing is wrong. Clients really don't have a way to discourage the practice. It's part of the hobby. You should always assume that someone else knows about your appointment.

Ladies don't reveal the fact that they have bookers, drivers and friends who check in on them because doing so would be bad for business.

If you're so concerned about your safety and privacy, then don't have providers over to your house. If this happened at a hotel, I doubt you'd be so angry.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Trefoil
Additional info

[JRWolfe]

Nothing wrong with having a driver,at least one popular lady here doesn't have a drivers license.

EVERYTHING wrong with a driver sitting in front...as pointed out...it would attract unwanted attention...especially in Neighborhood Watch zones.

[Bit Banger]

... {Clients} should always assume that someone else knows about your appointment.

It boils down to 'do you trust the provider'? Do you trust her discretion? Do you trust that she will carefully choose who to share your information with?

On the other hand, perhaps you don't care about these issues.

...If you're so concerned about your safety and privacy, then don't have providers over to your house. If this happened at a hotel, I doubt you'd be so angry.

^^^ THIS (emphasis mine)

[2Big]

"Trust" is not a relevant criterion because I don't know the provider from Adam.

There is no time to establish "trust". Hence, I have to use common sense and experience. Both tell me that having a "driver" is usually a sign of incompetence/helplessness.

And I would wonder how this might spill over into my interaction with her.

As for "safety", how is this even an issue? A dude sitting in his car contributes nothing to the safety of the provider.

I'm a 6 feet tall black guy. Anyone trying to come into my house, I'm gonna beat to death with my toilet plunger.