That's Enough

[Leigh5280]

Close the border. 

[stevie-2249]

It won’t happen with the current administration 

[tide32]

Not going to happen. 

1 Republicans want cheap labor

2 Democrats want the votes

3 Americans aren't about to work the fields to pick your crops for your salad bar. 

4 Americans have no skills and we've got a generation coming up who can't pass a drug test or put their cell phone down.

5 Other countries actually educate the young people and Instill the drive it takes to compete in the job market.

And that's just off the top of my head.

 

[tide32]

1 hour ago, stevie-2249 said:

It won’t happen with the current administration 

Didn't happen with the last or the ones before that. 

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

Outlaw stupid

[stevie-2249]

18 hours ago, tide32 said:

Didn't happen with the last or the ones before that. 

But it slowed down a whole lot, now they coming in like flys

[tide32]

3 hours ago, stevie-2249 said:

But it slowed down a whole lot, now they coming in like flys

Well that's just stupid. Flies hate cold weather and can't swim and it's been proven, they can't fly with luggage on their backs.. Get back with us in the spring and quit watching Fox News. 

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

1 hour ago, tide32 said:

Well that's just stupid. Flies hate cold weather and can't swim and it's been proven, they can't fly with luggage on their backs.. Get back with us in the spring and quit watching Fox News. 

No cap

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

23 hours ago, stevie-2249 said:

It won’t happen with the current administration 

Happening long before Amerigo Vespucci, and the real natives his homies, well, hopefully, you heard the story, it won't happen with any administration there, Pilgrim. But! It sure rocks the boat, I meant vote!! Huh?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/caravan-lie-sparked-massacre-american-jews/574213/

Edited December 2, 2022 by Hobby Hobbit

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:48 PM, Leigh5280 said:

Close the border. 

[lustybustygina]

The Drug Cartel neve let it happen 

[tide32]

1 hour ago, lustybustygina said:

The Drug Cartel neve let it happen 

The one north or south of the border?

[Bit Banger]

I’m sitting about 5mi (crow flight) from the Rio Grande in S.TX.  Many of my cigar bar friends are involved in border security.  There has been a major uptick in illegal crossings. Measured in THOUSANDS per day in this sector alone.

Make of it what you will, but there has been an increase in local crime and a strain on charitable & government resources.

[stevie-2249]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

I’m sitting about 5mi (crow flight) from the Rio Grande in S.TX.  Many of my cigar bar friends are involved in border security.  There has been a major uptick in illegal crossings. Measured in THOUSANDS per day in this sector alone.

Make of it what you will, but there has been an increase in local crime and a strain on charitable & government resources.

That’s why we need a wall so they atleast slow down the pace of them!

if they are not here legal why do we feeel the need to feed them and house them! BS 

let’s go there and see if they do the same for u🤣🤣

[tide32]

1 hour ago, stevie-2249 said:

That’s why we need a wall so they atleast slow down the pace of them!

if they are not here legal why do we feeel the need to feed them and house them! BS 

let’s go there and see if they do the same for u🤣🤣

Might what to check this out. Many immigrants are here legally do the the fact that we aren't educating our people to compete in the current job market. We just don't produce the talent needed to perform many job openings. This has been the case of many years and I see no end in sight. The cost of an education far exceeds the results. But that's what you get when you want everyone to feel special and feel like a winner. "Everybody get a trophy" attitude has produced a bunch of weak, ignorant, self indulgent, lazy americans. Hell! People can't even shop for themselves and uber food for dinner. And don't get me started about how "the lazy and stupid are easier to lead and believe the shit you see on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and the other garbage news channels.  I'M DONE ON THIS TOPIC, BEFORE I REALLY PISS SOMEONE OFF. 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works

Edited December 2, 2022 by tide32
FINAL THOUGHT

[BadTiming]

What an interesting thread. 

[Leigh5280]

On 11/30/2022 at 6:32 PM, tide32 said:

4 Americans have no skills...

I'm sure my clients would beg to differ. 😈

[gr8owl]

Should the border be wide open or closed?  Neither.  It should be logically and rationally controlled in a manner that serves the best interest of the USA.  Economy, despite all the fed fiddling, keeps roaring along with 250,000 new jobs per month and unemployment at a 50 year low.  There is quite simply a growing shortage of workers, especially willing ones, and if that does not get addressed soon we will have real problems.  Meanwhile there are a bunch of people fleeing really bad situations down south who want to come here for nothing more than safety, freedom and the ability to work and support families.  Sounds like a win win situation if handled properly and intelligently.  Of course that includes screening, tracking, and not necessarily permanent for all.  Or we can leave immigration a fucked up mess and continue to listen to both "sides" howl at the moon every election cycle and watch as both parties do not do squat to fix it - just like they both have not for decades.  We will get better when we demand better.  But one sentence solutions like "finish the wall" "close the border" will only cost a ton of money and help nothing.  Hell, you probably could not finish the wall without hiring illegal construction workers.  Or maybe they could just stay on the south side while building. 

[Bit Banger]

3 hours ago, gr8owl said:

Should the border be wide open or closed?  Neither.  It should be logically and rationally controlled in a manner that serves the best interest of the USA.
 …

But one sentence solutions like "finish the wall" "close the border" will only cost a ton of money …

Well said!

[sparkey600]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:57 PM, tide32 said:

Well that's just stupid. Flies hate cold weather and can't swim and it's been proven, they can't fly with luggage on their backs.. Get back with us in the spring and quit watching Fox News. 

There's a reason Fox "News" is banned in the UK and Canada. Tucker Liarson had to say he was a Entertainer?? News?, NOPE

[sparkey600]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:31 PM, stevie-2249 said:

It won’t happen with the current administration 

If you want to do a VERY little research, the current administration has the SAME laws in place as the last administration. Go on, look it up.

[Bit Banger]

8 hours ago, sparkey600 said:

If you want to do a VERY little research, the current administration has the SAME laws in place as the last administration. Go on, look it up.

Same laws, different application.

Many demand Constitutional protections for illegal immigrants. How about applying the 14th Amendment (equal protection clause) to the other three borders (N, E, & W) and treating immigrants through these portals the same as through our southern border? Open the flood gates for all? NO!

Just apply the same policies and procedures to those flooding our southern border as are used at the aforementioned other three.  Yes, legal immigration can be an expensive, arduous process, but thousands do it every year.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Bit Banger

[Audrey Astor]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:45 AM, tide32 said:

Might what to check this out. Many immigrants are here legally do the the fact that we aren't educating our people to compete in the current job market. We just don't produce the talent needed to perform many job openings. This has been the case of many years and I see no end in sight. The cost of an education far exceeds the results. But that's what you get when you want everyone to feel special and feel like a winner. "Everybody get a trophy" attitude has produced a bunch of weak, ignorant, self indulgent, lazy americans. Hell! People can't even shop for themselves and uber food for dinner. And don't get me started about how "the lazy and stupid are easier to lead and believe the shit you see on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and the other garbage news channels.  I'M DONE ON THIS TOPIC, BEFORE I REALLY PISS SOMEONE OFF. 

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/how-united-states-immigration-system-works

This ^^^^. And in all of this, we have to remember these folks are human beings as well.😭

[Newoldbull]

We have had 5.5 million apprehensions in the last 2 years by people who want to be caught.  That is not the serious issue here. What about the gottaways that are not being caught. They claim that there have been 70 some apprehensions of people on the terrorist watch list. How many of the estimated 600000 to 1000000 gotta ways are bad guys? The border patrol has been turned into paper pushers and babysitters so they can't effectively do there jobs. Looks like a recipe for disaster to me. Why hasn't this administration even made an effort to handle this problem other than looking the other way. You can make up your own mind but it looks deliberate to me. 

[gr8owl]

20 minutes ago, Newoldbull said:

We have had 5.5 million apprehensions in the last 2 years by people who want to be caught.  That is not the serious issue here. What about the gottaways that are not being caught. They claim that there have been 70 some apprehensions of people on the terrorist watch list. How many of the estimated 600000 to 1000000 gotta ways are bad guys? The border patrol has been turned into paper pushers and babysitters so they can't effectively do there jobs. Looks like a recipe for disaster to me. Why hasn't this administration even made an effort to handle this problem other than looking the other way. You can make up your own mind but it looks deliberate to me. 

Is there a solution in there somewhere or just your usual pointless bitch and moan? Rhetorical question.  So here it is - what would you do?

[Newoldbull]

The solution is pretty simple but it probably went clear over your head. Go back to the policies that were working.  Stay in Mexico policy!!! Put sanctions on Mexico to make them comply with it. We had a surge in illegal immigration in 2019 and these policies slowed it down substantially. Day one your hero "Mr Magoo" tore that up. He also halted up construction of the border wall that was already paid for. The wall would slow it down enough so the border control could manage it instead of the mass invasion we are witnessing now. If that's not enough solution for you than I'd like to hear your idea on the possible national security risk that this debacle has created. I can wait to hear this!!!

 

[sparkey600]

15 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

Same laws, different application.

Many demand Constitutional protections for illegal immigrants. How about applying the 14th Amendment (equal protection clause) to the other three borders (N, E, & W) and treating immigrants through these portals the same as through our southern border? Open the flood gates for all? NO!

Just apply the same policies and procedures to those flooding our southern border as are used at the aforementioned other three.  Yes, legal immigration can be an expensive, arduous process, but thousands do it every year.

I'd be very interested to know what the different application might be? How does one (or many) apply the same laws in a different manner?

Make no judgment on my question, I'd really like to know if I'm reading things wrong. I'm a true supporter of the poor in general, damn they have nobody else.....I really do all I can to help. Yep Bleeding heart Liberal here. Give money to poor people, buy warm jackets to those that need them, hand out my hard won cash, and really care about people who are hurting. But that's just me. I care and try to make a difference for a person that's less fortunate than I happen to be RIGHT NOW....Because that might change, I hope not but the future is cruel in the least.

If Government had it's way just the fact of being poor would be a crime!
Oh, wait, it's already illegal in many municipalities. But I digress here. I think I know the answer....The Rich (those in power) Actually want cheap labor in this country to drag down our cost of living. It's hard to compete with a country that offers 15 bucks an hour on average with another country that offers 40 bucks an hour for the same service. It's all about money and always will be.

As for the 14th Amendment: was ratified on July 9, 1868. The amendment granted citizenship to those born or naturalized in the United States and guaranteed freedom, due process, and equal protection under the law to all Americans. In doing so, it expanded the scope of the Constitution’s protection of individual liberty; now the Constitution protected rights not only from infringement by the federal government, but from infringement by state and local government as well.

I don't want to get into a fight with you but all of the Dreamers living in this country might have a different opinion as they know no other country but the US, there HAS to be a place for these people here that have never lived in their "home" countries, would you agree to that at least?

Thanking you in advance for explaining it to me.

[Bit Banger]

5 hours ago, sparkey600 said:

I'd be very interested to know what the different application might be?  …

For starters, Executive Orders are not really laws passed by Congress.  
The previous administration tried stem the flow and remove illegals from US soil.  The current administration has been busy reverse those JP efforts and hamper the agencies charged with enforcing our laws. (I smoke with several who work for these agencies. The wrongful persecution of CBP agents in the Del Rio sector had a chilling effect.)

We punish Asians who set up vacation plans designed to create “anchor babies” on the west coast, yet reward pregnant illegals crossing our southern border.  A few years back we had an influx of Cubans across the Rio Grande, exploiting the ‘wet foot/dry foot’ policy applicable on the FL coast. Also a few years back I hired an immigration attorney to explain to me the options for an English girlfriend; the process for legal residency would take at least a year, if not more. Far from the ‘catch & release’ policy we see in place here in The Valley.

I feel for the Dreamers, but their problem is their parents fault. Should they have a path to legal residency and citizenship? Sure, but Congress needs to provide that path, not EOs.

[gr8owl]

13 hours ago, Newoldbull said:

The solution is pretty simple but it probably went clear over your head. Go back to the policies that were working.  Stay in Mexico policy!!! Put sanctions on Mexico to make them comply with it. We had a surge in illegal immigration in 2019 and these policies slowed it down substantially. Day one your hero "Mr Magoo" tore that up. He also halted up construction of the border wall that was already paid for. The wall would slow it down enough so the border control could manage it instead of the mass invasion we are witnessing now. If that's not enough solution for you than I'd like to hear your idea on the possible national security risk that this debacle has created. I can wait to hear this!!!

 

Thank you for verifying just more of the same old trump walks on water and made everything wonderful and Biden is evil incarnate who is responsible for everything wrong everywhere in the world rant.  I assumed as much.  But tell me, which trump policies "were working?" Separating children from their parents and locking them up in cages?  Title 42 that was specifically to address covid - you know the pandemic trump called a hoax - and that EXPIRES in two weeks?  There has been no change in the law since before trump.  Most of what is going on now is the result of law suits and the courts demanding Biden do xyz. Anything he attempts has had to be via executive order because of the do nothing Congress and the courts rightfully toss the orders out. The wall - what a fucking joke!  And no it was NOT paid for, only partial funding stolen from military budget.  I guess the check from Mexico is in the mail. Wire ladders are a cottage industry, and they are even left conveniently attached after each use lol.  As to national security risk, the biggest national security risks to the USA in order are: Russia, trump, all those who participated in the coup including 140 in Congress, lunatic militias like the Proud Boys (still sounds like a gay frat) Three Percenters, Boogaloos, Oath Keepers, MAGA.  Lastly on this part - anything you have to say going over my head - hahahahahhahahhahahah

So what to do? Change the damn laws and properly fund the facilities necessary to hold asylum seekers until hearing, adequate number of judges to hear the requests, more border agents that are given the tools they need to be effective, and funding for functional catch and return program for those not granted asylum or who simply evade the whole thing.  Establish realistic caps per year, for immigration with or without asylum and evaluate that size of the cap annually to match state of economy, jobs, etc.  Create a functional guest worker program to allow work with a green card.  Oh, and stop the political theatre of human trafficking immigrants for personal political gain and shipping them all over by bus.  I am sure the two idiot governors screened them all thoroughly for terrorists lol.

There may actually be some tiny hope for a compromise to improve things, if the lunatics on the far left and the lunatics on the far right do not kill it just for theatre.  See:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/bipartisan-duo-makes-last-minute-push-immigration-deal-rcna60202

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/12/6/23497262/immigration-reform-sinema-tillis-bill-border

https://www.newsnationnow.com/danabramslive/new-bipartisan-legislation-on-immigration-emerges/

I do agree with holding Mexico accountable for a great many things, but sanctions are ludicrous.  They should be informed - clean up the cartels and fentanyl industry within 6 months OR WE WILL and we will do it IN MEXICO by whatever level of force is necessary. You, Mexico, will not be allowed to continue to profit from the deaths of 100,000 Americans per year, there will be consequences of a military nature. While they are at it control THEIR southern border and quit making refugee marches a cottage industry.  We also need to do what the largely invisible vice president was SUPPOSED to have been assigned to do in the first month - go to and study what is going on in Central America that is causing the huge waves of folks to leave, figure out what can be done to improve the situations and produce recommendations for ACTION, not hand wringing.  All options on table.  High up on the list of figuring out why so many - find out who is funding it and go after those funding it with a vengeance.  The portrayal of dirt poor folks running for their lives by walking a thousand miles might make a good movie, but the food and accommodations and greasing palms of local officials, etc. takes MONEY.  Whose money from where?

Lastly - no, the solution is not simple, never is.  But there are many things to try if we just stop the insane political bickering.  Just doing what ANY president since Reagan has done is just more of the same old same old.

[Bit Banger]

@gr8owl

A lot of ^these^ solutions make a good deal of sense.

An additional task would be ‘Follow the money!’ Find out who is sponsoring the caravans and waves hitting our southern border.

Yes, shipping illegals from TX to northern sanctuary cities is political theater. It illustrates to the liberals controlling those cities the problems we face on the southern border, but does nothing to reduce those problems. IMHO, the wake-up call in sanctuary cities was worth the effort.

The Wall will NOT stem the tide.  Just ask the Germans.  Besides, we’ve been building it for years; it is not just Trump’s Folly.

One of the things that needs to happen, and the message delivered to our southern neighbors, is dry up resources for illegals.  Caught giving one a job? Close your business. Government handouts? Stop!  Yes, it’s cruel, but so is consuming the resources needed for our own poor.