Providers.. UTF - is it worth it?

[Guest]

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat.. I'm embarrassed to admit I never knew this, and wondering if its even worth our safety and the safety of our clients to provide UTF. I feel like with our technique and enthusiasm it would make up for a cover, however, some clients can be real D-Bags about it. It makes me think they don't give a shit about their health and much less OUR health - which i find quite disrespectful. What are your opinions on this? 

[mrvegas63]

In the past, this particular topic has had three basic responses: "I agree", "The risk is small. You have a better chance of getting <insert disease> than something from bbbj", or some comment around business practices (eg. "not going to see a woman that doesn't offer", "not going to pay those rates and not get it", "always disease risk in this biz, don't like it, get out of the biz", and so forth).

Maybe something new and or of value information-wise will pop up this time.

Bottom line: do what you are comfortable with. Yes, guys will be pushy about this (comes with the territory). Don't get pushed into something you don't want to do.

[gr8owl]

1 hour ago, aria69 said:

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat.. I'm embarrassed to admit I never knew this, and wondering if its even worth our safety and the safety of our clients to provide UTF. I feel like with our technique and enthusiasm it would make up for a cover you have got to be kidding. no it does not, however, some clients can be real D-Bags about it. It makes me think they don't give a shit about their health and much less OUR health - which i find quite disrespectful. What are your opinions on this? 

Vegas is right - beaten to death thoroughly before.  Just because I seek oral sex - both giving and receiving - without a cover does not make me a douche or unconcerned about my health or yours.  I am tested regularly, so far always negative.  If ever a positive pops up I will be on shelf for duration.  For myself I can honestly say your risk of catching anything from me is extremely small.  I recognize not all clients can say the same, but wanted to clarify there are different ways of being concerned and acting on that concern.  If of course the lady has made clear she is only comfortable with everything covered and I try to coerce her into uncovered THEN I am indeed a douche!

Most importantly I have researched the risks and know what level of risk I am comfortable with.  I would absolutely recommend everyone do the same. The following is a pretty useful summary:

http://srhweek.ca/caring-for-yourself/sexually-transmissible-and-blood-borne-infections-stbbis/assessing-risk/

http://sexualityandu.ca/en/stis-stds/what-are-the-chances-of-getting-an-sti-std

But by all means do your own research.  Just be clear - condoms breaks and they do NOT give any protection against such things as Herpes.  There is no 100 percent safe sex other than self service and THAT depends on where your hands have been just before. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, aria69 said:

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat.. ... some clients can be real D-Bags about it. It makes me think they don't give a shit about their health and much less OUR health - which i find quite disrespectful.  

It's your body and you set your own boundaries not the "D-bags" (your words) clients. You certainly don't have to see any client(s) you find disrespectful or those who don't want to respect by the boundaries you've set for yourself. 

When providers start using rubber gloves for hand jobs, I'll probably retire.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, mrvegas63 said:

In the past, this particular topic has had three basic responses: "I agree", "The risk is small. You have a better chance of getting <insert disease> than something from bbbj", or some comment around business practices (eg. "not going to see a woman that doesn't offer", "not going to pay those rates and not get it", "always disease risk in this biz, don't like it, get out of the biz", and so forth).

Maybe something new and or of value information-wise will pop up this time.

Bottom line: do what you are comfortable with. Yes, guys will be pushy about this (comes with the territory). Don't get pushed into something you don't want to do.

Thanks for your input. Sorry my post is equivalent to beating a dead horse, but personally have never had any feedback on this particular topic. Thanks! 

[Bit Banger]

3 minutes ago, MisterBigShot said:

...

When providers start using rubber gloves for hand jobs, I'll probably retire.

... with 1/2 bottle of Jergens!  One of the worst experiences I have ever had. That was a non-Asian massage parlor on FL. Fortunately, this has not become the norm. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MisterBigShot said:

It's your body and you set your own boundaries not the "D-bags" (your words) clients. You certainly don't have to see any client(s) you find disrespectful or those who don't want to respect by the boundaries you've set for yourself. 

When providers start using rubber gloves for hand jobs, I'll probably retire. Ha!

From our side, its a lot different. We are constantly dealing with clients that try to cross our boundaries -- an overwhelming amount! Those are the d-bags I'm talking about. Its quite frustrating. maybe its this new clientele that I'm not used to.

[mrvegas63]

Re: gloved HJs. Put "glove" into the session description box under review search. Turns up a few, including the infamous "Lucia" and her oxygen tank review.

[Guest]

Do you see the irony of this post since you have the number "69" as part of your handle?

[gr8owl]

4 minutes ago, MisterBigShot said:

Do you see the irony of this post since you have the number "69" as part of your handle?

You can 69 with condom and dental dam and the all covered all the time crowd would suggest it ...... but why would you is my point of view.  Think "69" has more to do with agency than personal identity. 

[brownegg]

I don't know if this counts as adding to the discussion, and I agree I don't think "clarity" can be gotten: I would MUCH MUCH rather no French at all than you put a condom in your mouth.  I can't think of anything less clinical or less chivalrous than "I'd like my penis in your mouth even though I won't be able to feel it and it'll be like you're blowing a brand new dildo."  The reasons to not "do" UTF are excellent but only you can decide if they are good enough.  For me, I literally prefer nothing at all (I am one of those for whom 90% of the value of reviews is whether UTF is included).

[pejo]

5 hours ago, aria69 said:

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat.. I'm embarrassed to admit I never knew this, and wondering if its even worth our safety and the safety of our clients to provide UTF. I feel like with our technique and enthusiasm it would make up for a cover, however, some clients can be real D-Bags about it. It makes me think they don't give a shit about their health and much less OUR health - which i find quite disrespectful. What are your opinions on this? 

I've read many many reviews of providers. I think it's clear that a high number of hobbyists will simply "pass" on a provider that only provides covered oral. Plenty of hobbyists simply filter their searches for "UTF." As for hobbyists who push a provider after she has made her "no UTF" policy clear, those guys are absolute D-Bags and deserve no sympathy. Hobbyists need to respect boundaries, but a provider shouldn't be surprised if moving to a "no UTF" policy results in somewhat smaller call volume. (And, no, "technique and enthusiasm" cannot make up for a cover. Not in my book.)   

[Guest]

It must be worth it, because we pay a lot for it! 

[stevie-2249]

Why are you attending a seminar for sw's?

[Buddy Glass]

This really isn't the hobby to be in if someone's scared of catching something. We can go over stats for transmission, cover the 'dirty' perspective sex is taught from, and the irrational fear people have of testing positive for a, gasp, std!, gasp, and getting treatment. In the end it comes down to the amount of risk everyone is willing to accept vs the barriers to intimacy people are willing to pay for.  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, aria69 said:

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat..

yes this true. I recently even posted about getting warts in the lungs. It's  respiratory HPV strains 6 & 11. This why I'm tested all the time. I always encourage other providers to do so as well.

 

[Lucy Kitten]

11 hours ago, aria69 said:

Thanks for your input. Sorry my post is equivalent to beating a dead horse, but personally have never had any feedback on this particular topic. Thanks! 

It's not really beating a dead horse, it's something that should be brought up. These guys will say anything to keep UTF on the menu. Colorado guys have dictated that UTF is a standard service and will try to beat down anyone who says it isn't. UTF is risky, oral sex is sex and any uncovered act is risky. It is definitely risky for the providers who do it regularly not so much for clients and that's where that argument comes from.

In many other provider markets UTF is often not so commonplace or an upsell. As it should be, risking health should be up to the provider and not the clients. Promiscuous women are at higher risk when it comes to oral sex. It's not paranoia or an overreaction to the STD stigma it should be about protecting your money maker.

It's sad that we keep having this conversation, it's never been about understanding the health risks or how wretchedly manipulative it is to push an unsafe service under the guise of "it's not that risky". It's sad that in this market a provider is punished for looking out for the safety of themselves and others. 

The one thing that I really don't understand is why people are so willing to put their loved ones at risk or put the loved ones of providers. You can't take back herpes or HIV. Is it worth it for a $100 session? That barely covers the cost of a full STD panel.

I acknowledge that eliminating it isn't really an option. But there is still the option of it becoming a lesser offered service, a more expensive service, a service that is treated more like the luxury that it is. We could also choose to stop punishing providers with so-so reviews and acknowledge that it does not make a provider less than.

So bring on the haters. Tell me all about how it's OK to perform unsafe acts on multiple people. And tell me again that if I want to make money I better risk my health, that's my favorite. It's like the classiest thing you can say to another human being. Please also use my own reviews against me. I recognize that I offer the very service that I bitch about but understand the pressure that is put on providers.

We've got ladies offering BBFS for less than $200 and we have guys who have reviewed openly admit that they engage in unsafe sex. We had a thread where guys were admitting that they only get tested at their once a year old man physical. We have proof that there are many that are not overwhelmingly concerned with the communities health. All the more reason that we should all be more cautious.

 

 

[Lucy Kitten]

3 hours ago, Buddy Glass said:

This really isn't the hobby to be in if someone's scared of catching something. We can go over stats for transmission, cover the 'dirty' perspective sex is taught from, and the irrational fear people have of testing positive for a, gasp, std!, gasp, and getting treatment. In the end it comes down to the amount of risk everyone is willing to accept vs the barriers to intimacy people are willing to pay for.  

Let's go over the stats for real. Most of the stats don't take into consideration promiscuity it's always an added note. If you have more partners your risk increases. Testing positive is not an irrational fear, it's very valid when sex is your business. Shit happens, we've seen HIV outbreaks in the porn community and they are supposedly super regulated.

If we can agree that eating healthy is good for the body, drinking water, exercising, not smoking or drinking is good then why is it so hard to believe that TF is good for the body.

My biggest issue is that the guys around here aren't really willing to pay for it. For some reason bjs are a lesser service than going all the way. That's ridiculous. If clients really insist that UTF is the only way then why not pay for it? It could be a potentially ruin a career so a provider should charge appropriately.

[Buddy Glass]

26 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Let's go over the stats for real. Most of the stats don't take into consideration promiscuity it's always an added note. If you have more partners your risk increases. Testing positive is not an irrational fear, it's very valid when sex is your business. Shit happens, we've seen HIV outbreaks in the porn community and they are supposedly super regulated.

If we can agree that eating healthy is good for the body, drinking water, exercising, not smoking or drinking is good then why is it so hard to believe that TF is good for the body.

My biggest issue is that the guys around here aren't really willing to pay for it. For some reason bjs are a lesser service than going all the way. That's ridiculous. If clients really insist that UTF is the only way then why not pay for it? It could be a potentially ruin a career so a provider should charge appropriately.

You're all over the place. Is your biggest issue the risk, or not getting paid more? Did the guys set the rate or did you? Are men forcing you to perform UTF? Is a client or someone else forcing you into this business? Is someone actively preventing you from either going into another business or offering services you're comfortable with? Is the problem the market here? You seem to imply you like other markets better. Have you considered setting up shop in one of them, or are you forced to work only this one? 

Lots of providers offer TF. Lots offer UTF. The provider chooses which she'll offer, and the customer chooses which he'll visit. I never advocated for one or the other. If you feel so passionately that UTF needs to cost more, set your rates accordingly. Then you'll feel compensated for any risk you take. Similarly, if you don't want to take that risk, don't offer it. Some guys will pass over your ad. Some won't. But, judging from your collective posts, you hate the business, the other providers, and the clients. Maybe it's time to consider a different business model.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Buddy Glass said:

Lots of providers offer TF. Lots offer UTF. Exactly and her choice. 

The provider chooses which she'll offer, Exactly and her choice. 

and the customer chooses which he'll visit. and his choice.

 

[brownegg]

12 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

In many other provider markets UTF is often not so commonplace or an upsell. As it should be, risking health should be up to the provider and not the clients. Promiscuous women are at higher risk when it comes to oral sex. It's not paranoia or an overreaction to the STD stigma it should be about protecting your money maker.

In my experience (previous to Denver, this is Chicago, NYC, a bit of Europe and Asia), UTF is  less common here than in other markets.  That's not to say it's hard to find, but off the top of my head I'd guess 40% of providers in Denver are TF girls--in other places that's more like 20%.

[Paul Pudenda]

On 2/5/2016 at 8:47 AM, aria69 said:

I recently attended a health study for SW's where I was told that bbbj can lead to STI's in the throat.. I'm embarrassed to admit I never knew this, and wondering if its even worth our safety and the safety of our clients to provide UTF. I feel like with our technique and enthusiasm it would make up for a cover, however, some clients can be real D-Bags about it. It makes me think they don't give a shit about their health and much less OUR health - which i find quite disrespectful. What are your opinions on this? 

I've been doing this for a pretty long while, and never had a problem.  If I know that a provider doesn't provide UTF, I won't call her.  And if after I arrive a lady makes clear that she doesn't provide this service, I will leave.  She keeps her principles and I don't pay for what I don't want.  And no - no amount of "technique and enthusiasm" makes up for using a cover.  It's like sucking a boob through a flannel night shirt.  

[Guest]

On 2/6/2016 at 9:57 PM, Lucy Kitten said:

.

So bring on the haters. Tell me all about how it's OK to perform unsafe acts on multiple people. And tell me again that if I want to make money I better risk my health, that's my favorite. It's like the classiest thing you can say to another human being. Please also use my own reviews against me. I recognize that I offer the very service that I bitch about but understand the pressure that is put on providers.

We've got ladies offering BBFS for less than $200 and we have guys who have reviewed openly admit that they engage in unsafe sex. We had a thread where guys were admitting that they only get tested at their once a year old man physical. We have proof that there are many that are not overwhelmingly concerned with the communities health. All the more reason that we should all be more cautious.

 

 

I'm puzzled that you're openly asking for criticism to your very well thought out post to this topic. There aren't very many on this site who have either the desire or willingness to take on a provider who is as articulate and commands a mastery of the language with the relative ease as you exhibit time and again. 

Recognizing that this topic has been brought up on many occasions and speaks to the core of our reasons for participating in this activity/profession...I respect your opinion on this matter as well as the OP's. I stand by my statement that it is your body (as a provider) and you set whatever boundaries necessary in order to make the standard of living you need while at the same time respecting yourself and staying true to your values.

I hadn't analyzed it to the point of the scrutiny this thread has revealed and was relatively unaware of  UTF being such a contentious subject with both providers and clients alike. You bring up many good points that deserve to be considered by this community.

Reading between the lines...I think what you're saying is this topic deserves to be recognized for what it is and this community would benefit from all participants being more conscientious about the health risks involved.

[ajot]

It sounds to me a bit of market pressure.

I had a nurse tell me recently that condoms are pretty much doing nothing to prevent STIs and they're only good for mostly preventing pregnancy. Before you jump all over me for that statement, that's not what I believe from my research and I doubt few to noone else here believes that! But the point is simply that of your risk and belief in what is acceptable and what isn't. Pick what you're ok with and then consider what you might do if there's more money involved.

There's honestly a line somewhere of what is too much risk and what is just a risk you'll take for a bit more. And I don't mean that rudely! There are certainly women out there that say wouldn't do any of this, but if you suddenly put $10,000 up that goes out the window. Further there are amounts of risk you're cool with or not - if you paid me $10,000 I'd jump off the roof, but if you paid me $100 I might not think it's worth the risk.

And then back to what is done more frequently here or elsewhere, that's a bit of the market. But honestly at the end of the day, you should really just draw the line at what you're ok with and what you're not ok with. You can even look to some crazy cases of this: the girl Elliot Spitzer got caught with was $2500 an hour. He kept begging for full bare and she simply said NO. He came back a few times anyway. Yet I'm sure that there are a LARGE percentage of providers that would NEVER advertise or consider BB - but a large donation for an hour like that might change the mind.

- I wrote more but I'll just cut it there instead of continuing rambling!

[jhooker]

I for one am not so concerned about whether a provider will give oral without a cover. In fact, if she won't do BBBJ I feel more comfortable thinking she is safer about what she does. I have yet to actually CIM without a cover. I like to be safe-ER if possible. Sometimes I have to ask the provider to NOT do BBBJ. Just me. So not all men are A-holes about it ladies. Sometimes she wants to give ma a BBBJ so bad I almost feel like I'm insulting her if I ask for a cover. Heres to you ladies who like cum! Most of the civilian women I've known were not so big on the CIM thing I guess I've become accustomed to actually thinking it's dirty, which may be why I refrain from doing that with a provider even if she's willing. I think I'll work on it ; )

[Danielle Rae]

While it may very well be "her body" and "her choice" - it just so happens that these grossly irresponsible behaviors do affect others.  And frankly, the gal that blatantly advertises her BBFS/CIP service and tops it off by giving the public free access to full color POV photos of her "VIP visits" on her website  is doing the community as a whole no favors.  Think about it. 

[Danielle Rae]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 4:23 PM, MisterBigShot said:

..."Reading between the lines...I think what you're saying is this topic deserves to be recognized for what it is and this community would benefit from all participants being more conscientious about the health risks involved."

amen

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Danielle Rae said:

While it may very well be "her body" and "her choice" - it just so happens that these grossly irresponsible behaviors do affect others.  And frankly, the gal that blatantly advertises her BBFS/CIP service and tops it off by giving the public free access to full color POV photos of her "VIP visits" on her website  is doing the community as a whole no favors.  Think about it. 

Mmmmhmmmm. Videos too! SO GROSS!

[MikeInCOSprings]

FWIW, I know that I am probably in the extreme minority here, but...

1) BBBJ (or BJ) isn't much of a thing for me.  Much prefer the real thing, HJ, or other crazy shit.  For whatever reason, BJ's just have never felt that great to me.

2) It's always a bit of a red flag for me to see someone offer such services.  Not that it's a showstopper, but if I see someone who does not offer BBBJ, I have a little more confidence in their cleanliness and hygiene.  On the other hand... if someone does enthusiastically offer such services, there is a good chance that they are a genuine freak in the sheets, which is a plus.

I always wonder when people start throwing medical stats around.  There is a lot of contradictory data floating around out there.   People tend to believe what they want to believe and discard the rest.

 

[Guest]

OK, I have been at this a long time as well and I have NEVER run into any problems. I am in the crowd of not wanting to suck on a balloon, however every once in a while I will get a guy who requests it. I do not have a problem with this either. The worst thing I have been exposed to is a freaking cold. Girls should learn how to check a guys penis instead of running around  like the sky is falling. In my experience, (and maybe it's the class of clientele I attract) these guys do not want to bring anything home.