2nd wave or what?

[Guest]

Is it just because the election is in full swing or are we really dealing with a potential second wave?! Say it ain’t so!

[Phil-anderer]

No, and the whole '2nd' wave thing isn't really a medical term - just something used to help explain things to laypeople.   This is all one big 'wave', with specific regional flare-ups, and the majority of states are trending upward now, including Colorado.  The positivity rate is increasing as well.  If 2nd wave, 3rd wave makes people pay attention, then great.  Otherwise, it's one continuing pandemic that is unlikely to abate for at least the next year.  ANd that's if the vaccines work well.

[stevie-2249]

What needs to happen is everything needs to go back to normal, we all know this isn’t going away anytime soon, how many businesses need to close before it stops? How Much more can everyone take? Hopefully after the election this will end 🤣

6 hours ago, pfunk said:

Gee stevie, I guess we could just pretend the virus doesn't exist, and wait until everyone contracts it. Then, whoever survives can start rebuilding civilization. Let's start by infecting everyone who thinks it's a hoax, first, shall we?

Gee pfunk maybe your gonna be lucky and not lose your business! But many our over a virus that is killing 70 plus age group, let’s protect them.

when the swine flu hit 60 million people got it over a year period but we didn’t shut down the country? Do you see where this going? The timing of this virus?

it’s been 7 months and this virus isn’t going away anytime soon even with a vaccine, people will still be scared, why? Cuz of the media.

if we protect our older generation we will be just fine, better for them to stay in isolation than keeping this country closed. And I already know that your a Democrat hence your answer.  don’t be afraid you will be ok pfunk

This air from the fires is gonna kill us before the covid does wholly moly

[pfunk]

10 hours ago, stevie-2249 said:

What needs to happen is everything needs to go back to normal, we all know this isn’t going away anytime soon, how many businesses need to close before it stops? How Much more can everyone take? Hopefully after the election this will end 🤣

Gee stevie, I guess we could just pretend the virus doesn't exist, and wait until everyone contracts it. Then, whoever survives can start rebuilding civilization. Let's start by infecting everyone who thinks it's a hoax, first, shall we?

[Alex Majors]

We are all adults and know what to do help protect ourselves. We don't need others  to tell us. They say that with the regular flu season and covid, it would be the second wave. So get your flu shot. This year has been one for books. Still we need to get back out and keep things going. The virus is now a part of our lives. If you have the ability to stay home and never leave, do it if it makes you comfortable. I have no idea on how long it can survive by itself. A day, week, month or years. We can't be locked down forever. The water and lights have to work. Trash needs to be picked up.  Sewers working. Food needs to  be grown and trucked to stores. Etc, etc.  There is no guarantee staying locked down will spare you. It just is better odds.  There is still minimal contact with  groceries. Even some animals can get it. I remember the tigers at the NYC Zoo cotracted it. 

[ilovewomen]

For anyone who thinks that those who are over 60 years old should isolate so we don't get sick...bugger off!

We have every right to be out and about, just like you do.

You can catch Covid just as easily as we can (from anyone, any age) and you can die just as easily too.  This has been proven. 

Yeah I am more likely to get complications and die from it.  So what.  BFD.

Shutting down the country is not a viable option, no matter what.

Get your ass out of the house.

Take reasonable precautions.

Wear a mask.

DUH!

 

[Laci French]

Everyone needs to do what they feel is best.  Just please be respectful of others in the process.  

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

I started the year with cataract surgery, then dental, now hopefully (if all goes well) an additional medical procedure. 
 

You know the only illness I have had was from eating something cooked in canola oil. I feel very fortunate to be healthy. Seriously, I feel healthier now than I did in my 40’s.

[Phil-anderer]

17 hours ago, Laci French said:

Everyone needs to do what they feel is best.  Just please be respectful of others in the process.  

I love you Laci, but I disagree a bit.  There is clear public health data about how mask-wearing around other people is a significant (and only, at this point) factor in preventing transmission.  Yes, people do get to make their own choices, but in the midst of a pandemic the significance of which hasn't been seen for 100 years, I think public health needs outweigh the individual need to 'feel free'.

That's my opinion, said lovingly.

Also....   the whole 'flattening of the curve' discussion was really messaged inappropriately earlier this year, imo.  The main purposes were to 1. decrease the hospitalization/icu burden during the spike, and 2. buy more time for better medicines, treatments, data and vaccines.

The initial projection (if doing nothing) of ~2 million people dying in the US is still real.  All we've done is lengthened the timeline.  Yes, we have somewhat better therapeutics and improvements in hospital treatment, but these are mitigation measures, not cures.  We've decreased the mortality rate and LOS a little, but not a lot.

Until we get a vaccine, there is no real way out of these.  The monoclonal antibody trials are very promising, but again, these are for treatment and are as yet unproven in terms of solid data (the n is still very low).

I'm not trying to be woe is me - I just wear a mask at all times outside of my house - but rather, give an honest appraisal of of the truth.  Dr. Fauci is the best source of what is happening at this point, more so than anyone else at or near 'the top' (again, my opinion).  We simply cannot trust Trumps personal physician, who has already admitted to lying about Trump's health, nor the Dr. Atlas character who has no public health or infectious disease experience.  I personally know hundreds of people (me included) who are WAY more qualified than this guy.  

Anyway.... we can live life, just with a mask and following the expert recommendations.  Stay healthy everyone.

[Laci French]

22 minutes ago, Phil-anderer said:

I love you Laci, but I disagree a bit.  There is clear public health data about how mask-wearing around other people is a significant (and only, at this point) factor in preventing transmission.  Yes, people do get to make their own choices, but in the midst of a pandemic the significance of which hasn't been seen for 100 years, I think public health needs outweigh the individual need to 'feel free'.

That's my opinion, said lovingly.

Also....   the whole 'flattening of the curve' discussion was really messaged inappropriately earlier this year, imo.  The main purposes were to 1. decrease the hospitalization/icu burden during the spike, and 2. buy more time for better medicines, treatments, data and vaccines.

The initial projection (if doing nothing) of ~2 million people dying in the US is still real.  All we've done is lengthened the timeline.  Yes, we have somewhat better therapeutics and improvements in hospital treatment, but these are mitigation measures, not cures.  We've decreased the mortality rate and LOS a little, but not a lot.

Until we get a vaccine, there is no real way out of these.  The monoclonal antibody trials are very promising, but again, these are for treatment and are as yet unproven in terms of solid data (the n is still very low).

I'm not trying to be woe is me - I just wear a mask at all times outside of my house - but rather, give an honest appraisal of of the truth.  Dr. Fauci is the best source of what is happening at this point, more so than anyone else at or near 'the top' (again, my opinion).  We simply cannot trust Trumps personal physician, who has already admitted to lying about Trump's health, nor the Dr. Atlas character who has no public health or infectious disease experience.  I personally know hundreds of people (me included) who are WAY more qualified than this guy.  

Anyway.... we can live life, just with a mask and following the expert recommendations.  Stay healthy everyone.

I do believe we all should be masking up for others.   I was talking about getting out and sorry for the confusion.

[Phil-anderer]

21 hours ago, Laci French said:

I do believe we all should be masking up for others.   I was talking about getting out and sorry for the confusion.

   And yes, I think we all need to be getting out in a safe way.

[lowboy]

On 10/10/2020 at 2:33 PM, Phil-anderer said:

There is clear public health data about how mask-wearing around other people is a significant (and only, at this point) factor in preventing transmission.

I'm going to have to respectively disagree with this. Mask wearing is nearly universally accepted in Europe and they are dealing with a much worse "2nd wave" than we are. A few articles for thought:

https://fee.org/articles/europes-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-in-beating-covid-19/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/15/covid-in-europe-how-countries-are-tackling-second-wave

https://www.newsweek.com/netherlands-mask-policy-1522917

 

[gr8owl]

3 hours ago, lowboy said:

I'm going to have to respectively disagree with this. Mask wearing is nearly universally accepted in Europe and they are dealing with a much worse "2nd wave" than we are.

 

Based upon what exactly?  Every believable source (does NOT include economic focused sites like FEE !!) indicates Europe is all over the board relative to both required/recommended mask use and actual use.  And to simply cherry pick one control mechanism while leaving out gathering size limitations, testing, contact tracing, type of shops and retail open, and a plethora of other factors is totally unscientific and means very little.  Additionally there have been a number of studies one after another showing significant benefit and demonstrating how masks help.  Just wear a mask - it is soooooo easy and no big fricking deal, why make it one?

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

1 hour ago, gr8owl said:

Based upon what exactly?  Every believable source (does NOT include economic focused sites like FEE !!) indicates Europe is all over the board relative to both required/recommended mask use and actual use.  And to simply cherry pick one control mechanism while leaving out gathering size limitations, testing, contact tracing, type of shops and retail open, and a plethora of other factors is totally unscientific and means very little.  Additionally there have been a number of studies one after another showing significant benefit and demonstrating how masks help.  Just wear a mask - it is soooooo easy and no big fricking deal, why make it one?

Quantum thinking? I wonder about a flimsy cloth over the mouth and nose is enough to wear?  The reason I ask, is because why are we surging again with cases?  
  I could say more but it’s not worth.it! 

😳

Edited October 25, 2020 by Kali Sensual Reiki

[glassonion]

Like it or not our numbers are looking similar or worse to March at the moment. I expect the city and state to announce more restrictions in the next few weeks. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by glassonion
Typo

[Phil-anderer]

23 hours ago, lowboy said:

 

So here's the problem, and it applies to Europe and the US.  If enough people aren't taking strict precautions (masking, distancing, avoiding crowded indoor spaces, hand washing, etc), then the ability of the virus to spread isn't lowered enough.  In some ways, it's very much like the way infectious diseases (that we have vaccines for) spread.  In the case of measles, for example, when we have 95% coverage with the vaccine, we see virtually no spread.  However, over the last 20 years, we've seen communities drop into the 80's (or even lower in some areas), which means your immune pool isn't big enough to prevent spread.

WIth SARS-COV2, we simply don't have enough people preventing spread.  Europe is no different.  While it's hard to truly measure the amount of mask-wearing, in the US and Europe it is NOT universal, nor enough to prevent spreading.  It appears that 2 things are happening:  1, people are just getting tired of doing the things we need to do=fatigue and 2, with colder weather, more of us are congregating indoors.

If you want a really good comparison, look at places like Taiwan, S. Korea and other countries in SE Asia.  There, it is socially EXPECTED to wear masks, not just socially accepted.  And the total cases and positivity rate in those countries is incredibly low.

No matter what topic, you will find experts who disagree with the crowd, as we're seeing with this pandemic, and occasionally these people are right.  However, most of the time, and it's certainly the case with vaccinations and infectious disease, the top experts are exactly that for a reason.  If you have 95% of the top minds suggesting one thing, it's probably wiser to go with that group than it is the fringe opinions with people like Dr. Atlas.

Be safe.

[veteranhobbyist]

18 hours ago, glassonion said:

Like it or not our numbers are looking similar or worse to March at the moment. I expect the city and state to announce more restrictions in the next few weeks. 

I hope we are not getting shut down again! No restaurants, no gyms.

[pandarus23]

Kansas basically ran an experiment on mask effectiveness (governor ordered a mask mandate, but counties could opt-out). Counties with mask mandates have experienced 50% fewer infections per 100K people.

https://mediahub.ku.edu/media/Masks/1_49bb9aid

Edited October 26, 2020 by pandarus23

[johnnybgood]

On 10/7/2020 at 7:43 PM, stevie-2249 said:

What needs to happen is everything needs to go back to normal, we all know this isn’t going away anytime soon, how many businesses need to close before it stops? How Much more can everyone take? Hopefully after the election this will end 🤣

Gee pfunk maybe your gonna be lucky and not lose your business! But many our over a virus that is killing 70 plus age group, let’s protect them.

when the swine flu hit 60 million people got it over a year period but we didn’t shut down the country? Do you see where this going? The timing of this virus?

it’s been 7 months and this virus isn’t going away anytime soon even with a vaccine, people will still be scared, why? Cuz of the media.

if we protect our older generation we will be just fine, better for them to stay in isolation than keeping this country closed. And I already know that your a Democrat hence your answer.  don’t be afraid you will be ok pfunk

This air from the fires is gonna kill us before the covid does wholly moly

Have to agree, I've just recovered from a 5-8 day stunt with covid, didn't have any of DJT type docs but recovered none the less, the worst part was knowing I couldn't see any of the wonderful ladies I like to see.  No idea how I caught it and I don't really care.  Never once did I feel like I was dying, sick yes but I've been sick before and most likely will be sick again!

Protect yourself, be careful around others but open up our economy again, STOP the lockdowns!

A covid survivor!