Is your ASP a psychopath? Is your client?

[Guest hgritstoo]

Not trying to start an argument or name calling, but this kind of stuff (what makes people tick) fascinates me. In light of all the conversations surrounding the use of hobby phones, googling of your hobby phone number, and all the associated safety concerns on both sides, this seemed a useful discussion to have.

Interesting article here:

http://www.ivillage.com/can-you-guess-which-professions-have-most-psychopaths/4-a-551569?obref=obnetwork

No mention of escorts as a profession. However, most of the characteristics listed under psychpathy would seem to benefit this vocation.

On the other hand, the one common trait all of the least likely professions exhibit, empathy, would also be a valuable tool to the escort.

As to the clients, it has been studied and reported elsewhere that your typical male solicitor of the ladies services is in his early to mid 50s with an average annual income around $140,000. This demographic would tend to fit the jobs listed in the most likely to be psychopathic list rather than the least likely.

So, who is more likely to be a psychopath? My take: both sides of this activity are at increased risk of a psychopathic encounter over what they would normally expect in day to day participation in society.

[MAG]

No mention of escorts as a profession. However, most of the characteristics listed under psychpathy would seem to benefit this vocation.

True that.

The problem is that psychopaths are very good at blending in. They are societal chameleons, and can fool many people for short periods of time, and can fool some people for long periods of time.

So, that ATF of yours that you think you're falling in love with? She could easily be a raging psychopath. And if she knows your personal info, be careful what you do & say around her. If she blows, she'll take your life with her.

[urfan]

True that.

The problem is that psychopaths are very good at blending in. They are societal chameleons, and can fool many people for short periods of time, and can fool some people for long periods of time.

So, that ATF of yours that you think you're falling in love with? She could easily be a raging psychopath. And if she knows your personal info, be careful what you do & say around her. If she blows, she'll take your life with her.

whadda ya mean IF she blows - lol.

hmmm, discussion about mental health on an escort board is a bold move, Grits. this could give an interesting twist to the gals' screening process at the very least (for those that bother to screen, that is)

[Guest hgritstoo]

So, that ATF of yours that you think you're falling in love with? She could easily be a raging psychopath. And if she knows your personal info, be careful what you do & say around her. If she blows, she'll take your life with her.

Agreed, and understood. But the same could be said of the clients. I visited one lady who described such a client. He was on P411, had many oks, had even seen this lady before. On his last visit, he'd had "one too many", couldn't get it up, and took out his frustration by beating the shit out of the lady.

It seems that both clients and ASPs are frequently just one "relaxed inhibition" away from real trouble.

Edited November 6, 2013 by hgritstoo
speeling

[MAG]

Agreed, and understood. But the same could be said of the clients. I visited one lady who described such a client. He was on P411, had many oks, had even seen this lady before. On his last visit, he'd had "one too many", couldn't get it up, and took out his frustration by beating the shit out of the lady.

It seems that both clients and ASPs are frequently just one "relaxed inhibition" away from real trouble.

You should repeat this post every time some hooker declares "no one gets in my door without screening".

No amount of screening (on either side) is going to protect us from psychos. Every time each of us (male & female alike) participates in this hobby, we take a risk.

We can mitigate the risk by NEVER giving out ANY personal information.

[Velvet Valentine]

I might be flamed for this but here goes....

I've discussed this many, many times in the past with Beverly over our weekly cocktails...MANY TIMES. lol.... First off, mental health issues can be found in any work place.

Concerning providers- I think that one of the things that makes this job so appealing for many women is that they can be their own boss and no one tells us what to do. That is very appealing. Women are providers for many reasons....maybe they have a normal healthy life and even outside normal jobs, but need some extra dough. Maybe they love the thrill. Maybe they don't get along the same in the real world. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. If you wanna take off, you take off. If you feel bad, you can take off. You are a single mom and cant get off at 3pm to get them from school? You do this. It's great for many. You work alone for the most part. If you don't get along with others in a vanilla work environment, it's a better situation. So yea, if you have mental health issues that prevent you from being around a lot of others, this is ideal. So for those with social or mental health issues, that is VERY appealing. You can have some troubles, but be very successful and productive in making a living at this. A person with ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, or even just depression can do a job that is less constricting and feel good about making her living and feeling like she is doing something with a better schedule that suits her. So yea, the hours and the benefits might attract some with those internal issues just because it's less confining. Be happy that those women are doing this. We do see this a lot.

Concerning Hobbiests- Same as above, many do it for many reasons, but some (not all) do it because they are not as social or have some issues themselves, so going out to meet a woman is very tough for some and this makes them feel good. Thank God! Maybe they don't have time, maybe they have to be discrete, maybe they like the thrill, but some (again, not all) have some mental health or even physical health issues, or self esteem issues,depression, etc. just like those ladies. and this is the perfect outlet for them to see women and feel happy for a while. Thank God! Be glad there is a place where people can feel good for even just an hour.

So, those "crazy girls" just might be your angel for an hour. Just keep it in check.

[Guest hgritstoo]

No flame-bait there! This is an outstanding post. And exactlh the kind of discussion I was hoping to elicit.

I might be flamed for this but here goes....

I've discussed this many, many times in the past with Beverly over our weekly cocktails...MANY TIMES. lol.... First off, mental health issues can be found in any work place.

Concerning providers- I think that one of the things that makes this job so appealing for many women is that they can be their own boss and no one tells us what to do. That is very appealing. Women are providers for many reasons....maybe they have a normal healthy life and even outside normal jobs, but need some extra dough. Maybe they love the thrill. Maybe they don't get along the same in the real world. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. If you wanna take off, you take off. If you feel bad, you can take off. You are a single mom and cant get off at 3pm to get them from school? You do this. It's great for many. You work alone for the most part. If you don't get along with others in a vanilla work environment, it's a better situation. So yea, if you have mental health issues that prevent you from being around a lot of others, this is ideal. So for those with social or mental health issues, that is VERY appealing. You can have some troubles, but be very successful and productive in making a living at this. A person with ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, or even just depression can do a job that is less constricting and feel good about making her living and feeling like she is doing something with a better schedule that suits her. So yea, the hours and the benefits might attract some with those internal issues just because it's less confining. Be happy that those women are doing this. We do see this a lot.

Concerning Hobbiests- Same as above, many do it for many reasons, but some (not all) do it because they are not as social or have some issues themselves, so going out to meet a woman is very tough for some and this makes them feel good. Thank God! Maybe they don't have time, maybe they have to be discrete, maybe they like the thrill, but some (again, not all) have some mental health or even physical health issues, or self esteem issues,depression, etc. just like those ladies. and this is the perfect outlet for them to see women and feel happy for a while. Thank God! Be glad there is a place where people can feel good for even just an hour.

So, those "crazy girls" just might be your angel for an hour. Just keep it in check.

[Velvet Valentine]

I could be very, very wrong. By no means am I any sort of expert at all, but I think people with lesser mental health issues like ADHD or depression are really no real threat to the visitors who see them, but rather to themselves POSSIBLY in certain times, sadly. ADHD is probably way more predominent in this community IMO. Those with wayyyy more serious mental health issues would probably seem more of a threat to others, sadly. But IMO, someone with a more serious thing like "Schizophrenia", or worse, should be more visible if they are exhibiting sporatic behavior, or maybe possible drug or alcolohol issues related to it. I mean, if you really do your homework, You should maybe see something that would tell you to avoid putting yourself in that situation. But then, some guys love a little bit of crazy. The trick is to see the difference between fun and naturally crazy, or a more serious real issue.

[Sascha Sanders]

On the other hand, the one common trait all of the least likely professions exhibit, empathy, would also be a valuable tool to the escort.

I personally find this to be *the* most important and valuable tool for escorting. More valuable than my tits.

Well...maybe it's a tie.

Related: anyone watch the last season of Dexter? Interesting perspective from Dr. Vogel about how psychopaths are an important part of the natural order of things. Of course, she runs into some trouble but whatever. For what it's worth, I can't recall ever meeting a psychopath but I guess I wouldn't really know.

[Dweller201]

Due to my work in psych, mostly with prison inmates, I've met hundreds of legit psychopaths.

One of the main pathways to becoming one is to rarely if ever get a break from other people. When that happens you develop a cynical attitude that people are stupid, cannot be trusted, and are easily read. So, you start learning how to simulate what appeals to average people and then you do that stuff to get the results you never could by being honest.

As you can imagine, this way of living develops contempt for humans in general and that's when criminal behavior gets activated. Instead of just getting what you want from people, you get that while burning the person for being an idiot and falling for your game. The worst case is someone who "hunts" people and kills or rapes them.

Over the years I noticed that being a psychotherapist is a lot like being a psychopath, but for good instead of bad. You have to do all the same things, simulate empathy, run a kind of game on people, but it's to improve their lives. SO, the that's where providers come into question. When you see a provider are you just losing money OR are you left feeling better?

If providers are leaving people happier then they're far more like therapists than psychopaths.

[pitbull]

A long-time hobbiest told me a while ago that the ladies are all mentally "off" and that is WHY they are able to do this job. Was he right? I don't know.

[Dweller201]

A long-time hobbiest told me a while ago that the ladies are all mentally "off" and that is WHY they are able to do this job. Was he right? I don't know.

I've learned to look at people as holistic beings, meaning that they are many parts that make a whole. So, a person can have a problem in one area but that's not who they are in total.

I also know that people can change and so the off person of today can be totally different next year.

[urfan]

hey Pit, what it is, we all just happen to be experiencing a group of young women at a point in their lives when escorting is the thing they're doing. whores aren't born, they're made. each one comes to the life differently, for sure. so let's not make a whole big mish-mosh out of it.

and did your long lost pal also tell you that guys who hobby are also equally mentally "off" and that is why they hire these women to do their jobs?

it must be a widespread phenomenon tho - i present exhibit a: Men picking up prostitutes is more common than most men – or women – would think. According to a 2010 study from Indiana University at Bloomington, 69 percent of men frequent prostitutes.

[nairobi09]

Interesting that you find empathy to be important to you as an escort.

I would like to agree with the Dalai Lama's statement that 'the most important

thing is to have a warm heart.' Unfortunately American society does not seem

to value this. We DO have a sense of community here, at least on this board.

A women with a cold heart would be a total turnoff for me, despite any obvious

physical assets.

I would think that it would be difficult to balance 'empathy' with the need (?)

to say things that might not be true just to bring guys back. Nothing personal

of course as I do not know you. But I have learned the hard way that what

seemed like empathy was total BS.

Perhaps though, having empathy is a way for women in this profession to not into the

habit of being totally mercenary.

[nairobi09]

I agree with you that this hobby/business provides a place for people with certain types of mental disorders to have safe and pleasurable experiences that they might otherwise not have. However, it certainly can become a problem.

There once was an escort in this area that told me her mother was schizophrenic and I did see some disturbing and threatening behavior from her.

More recently I was visit an escort in our community that was ADHD and I almost ended up running out of our last meeting. So I have my doubts about ADHD being a 'lesser mental health issue.' I am not sure what med she was taking, but to quote a friend of mine:

"Adderall is a helluva drug"

[Sascha Sanders]

Interesting that you find empathy to be important to you as an escort.

I would like to agree with the Dalai Lama's statement that 'the most important

thing is to have a warm heart.' Unfortunately American society does not seem

to value this. We DO have a sense of community here, at least on this board.

A women with a cold heart would be a total turnoff for me, despite any obvious

physical assets.

I would think that it would be difficult to balance 'empathy' with the need (?)

to say things that might not be true just to bring guys back. Nothing personal

of course as I do not know you. But I have learned the hard way that what

seemed like empathy was total BS.

Perhaps though, having empathy is a way for women in this profession to not into the

habit of being totally mercenary.

I don't say things that aren't true. I also don't fake orgasms. So I guess I don't find any big hardship between being who I am with men and also what they want...? I also don't let the promise of return visits tempt me into being someone or something I'm not. I operate from a place of plenty. If one man doesn't click with me - there will be another who will and he'll come back. This approach has worked well for me over the years so I don't find the need to change it.

I'm a lot of things but I am definitely not a bullshitter. And, Jesus help me!, I'm definitely not a mercenary. If that were the case, I'd be doing it for free. Fuck that. This suits me well.

[Sascha Sanders]

I'm a lot of things but I am definitely not a bullshitter. And, Jesus help me!, I'm definitely not a mercenary. If that were the case, I'd be doing it for free. Fuck that. This suits me well.

Man. Maybe if I had one less vodka soda last night, I would've read that word as MERCENARY instead of MISSIONARY. The Jesus help me! part made a lot more sense then.

[limey]

I could never tell. I only know a couple of psychos but no Psychopaths.

I was also told that all providers have Issues. I think that is too broad(bad pun)

Since being involved in this hobby, I've had my eyes opened wide. Sometimes fun and sometimes very sad. Seen many that were radically intelligent, radically pretty, and radically sensual. Seen some that are really well adjusted and others very disturbed sadly.

All this and I don't hobby that much. I will say that I'm better for all the experiences. I know I'm a couple of bubbles off center and I love it. Different that most and I embrace it.

Most simplistically, we are all providing service if you think about it. Guys we have the money. Girls have the body. Too simple? Hell yes.

I have 2 ATF's. Ones still here and one is sadly gone.

Value both.

[pitbull]

hey Pit, what it is, we all just happen to be experiencing a group of young women at a point in their lives when escorting is the thing they're doing. whores aren't born, they're made. each one comes to the life differently, for sure. so let's not make a whole big mish-mosh out of it.

and did your long lost pal also tell you that guys who hobby are also equally mentally "off" and that is why they hire these women to do their jobs?

it must be a widespread phenomenon tho - i present exhibit a: Men picking up prostitutes is more common than most men – or women – would think. According to a 2010 study from Indiana University at Bloomington, 69 percent of men frequent prostitutes.

I'll certainly accept that both parties are "off" but one party is more "off" than the other. Which is that party? All depends on your perspective.

[pfunk]

I'll certainly accept that both parties are "off" but one party is more "off" than the other. Which is that party? All depends on your perspective.

Having done this for 25 years, I'm certain there are thousand more "off" clients, in this city, than "off" providers (just look at the members on this board). Some are WAAYY off, too.

If you look a percentage of the total, though, it's probably about the same.

There are oddball people in any field. Since this one is not legal, quite profitable, and always in demand, I think it attracts more fringe characters.

[Jez UaBriain]

...... Is your ASP a psychopath? Is your client?

Nope, but the ex Mr. Jez fits the term quite well. Does that count?

As pfunk says " I'm certain there are thousand more "off" clients, in this city, than "off" providers (just look at the members on this board). Some are WAAYY off, too."

The peanut gallery thrives on this kind of shit. The more raw and bizarre things that we do are, the more they crawl out of the woodwork.

[Guest hgritstoo]

I think that....because life is hard.....we're all "broken" to some extent. Some more broken than others. As a result, EVERYONE has a story and deserves to be listened to. And, I DO try to listen.

If I get whiff of a scent that I am doing more harm to a lady by being with her......that's my cue to leave. I'm doing this because of unfulfilled needs in my life (yes....I'm broken, too), but I do not want to fill those needs at the cost of doing additional harm to someone else.

This is why I ask these questions.

[urfan]

There are oddball people in any field. Since this one is not legal, quite profitable, and always in demand, I think it attracts more fringe characters.

this is my kind of fringe character

[harpo]

1 % of the US population are ! , but it is a matter of degree , as stated by the OP they can be CEOs etc...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

Confessions of a Sociopath

She's a successful law professor and a Sunday school teacher, with a host of family and friends. But her interpersonal calculus centers on how to manipulate and outmaneuver the many people in her life. Welcome to a world of ruthless cost-benefit analysis, charm, and grandiosity.

[Dweller201]

I think that....because life is hard.....we're all "broken" to some extent. Some more broken than others. As a result, EVERYONE has a story and deserves to be listened to. And, I DO try to listen.

If I get whiff of a scent that I am doing more harm to a lady by being with her......that's my cue to leave. I'm doing this because of unfulfilled needs in my life (yes....I'm broken, too), but I do not want to fill those needs at the cost of doing additional harm to someone else.

This is why I ask these questions.

Last night I was at this local bar and a regular announced that he considered me to be the most assertive man he's ever met. I thanked him and replied that if he only knew WHY I was like that there would be no mystery.

I'm assertive because I believe the world is total madness and people are naturally oppositional so I kind of have to order them to do the entirely normal and harmless things I want. That's a form of brokenness.

[George Taylor]

it must be a widespread phenomenon tho - i present exhibit a: Men picking up prostitutes is more common than most men – or women – would think. According to a 2010 study from Indiana University at Bloomington, 69 percent of men frequent prostitutes.

I hate it when stat's are thrown out without linking a source. I thought 69% smelled bad to me and how frequent is frequent? Anyway the 69% came from a 1948 Kinsey study that was likely flawed and did not use modern scientific sampling.

When the Kinsey report on male sexual behavior was published in 1948, it revealed among its then-scandalous findings that up to 69 percent of American men had paid for sex at some point in their lives.

Since then, the notion of the "john next door" has been perpetuated in pop culture, and even in some recent studies. But new research drawing on a large-scale nationally representative sample of men shows that frequenting prostitutes is not actually all that ordinary in the United States.

About 14 percent of American men said they paid for sex at some point in their lives, but just 1 percent said they visited a prostitute in the past year (2010), according to the study, which is, in part, based on data collected as part of the General Social Survey by researchers at the National Opinion Research Center.

http://www.livescience.com/28169-men-who-use-prostitutes.html I would argue compared to the mainstream both Escorts and Hobbyist are little odd, I would have to include myself in that.

[DaysGoBy2]

Hervey M. Cleckley in his book “The Mask of Sanity: An Attempt to Clarify Some Issues About the So Called Psychopathic Personality”, has pointed out that among females promiscuity is the most common sign of psychopathic personality.

A few weeks back I saw a girl, and talking to her was like talking to detective Sonya Cross (Diane Kruger) from the show “The Bridge”….quite an experience….

[urfan]

I hate it when stat's are thrown out without linking a source.

well sumtin may have smelled, george, but if i were you, i'd check my fingers. i referenced a 2010 Indiana U. study, a far leap from them 60+ year-old fuddy duddy Kinsey dill holes.

and holy fact-check, batman! does the nut doctor from the mens health carry any weight around here? if so (and i know, i know, it's TLDR) but i offer this 2011 article:

http://www.drharryfisch.com/men-that-use-prostitutes/

looks like that magic '69' number still holds up

and btw, where's your freakin source for the 'large-scale nationally representative sample of men' bit?

[Dweller201]

Hervey M. Cleckley in his book “The Mask of Sanity: An Attempt to Clarify Some Issues About the So Called Psychopathic Personality”, has pointed out that among females promiscuity is the most common sign of psychopathic personality.

A few weeks back I saw a girl, and talking to her was like talking to detective Sonya Cross (Diane Kruger) from the show “The Bridge”….quite an experience….

That's not how it's seen today though.

Promiscuity in females is typically a sign of Borderline Personality Disorder. That's a behavioral syndrome caused by abuse and rejection from important figures in your life who were supposed to love you but did the exact opposite.

The sexual behavior can be caused by a need to feel badly because the girl was taught that she's bad for being sexual or because she was abused and keeps recreating it. Also, sex can be a way that she looks for love and some kind of emotional interaction she never learned how to get properly.

All of that, to me, is more on the sad/sympathetic side than sinister.

[urfan]

point taken, Dwell, but i think a better read (and more on point to the OP) is Chuckle's 1962 tome entitled "The Caricature of Love: A Discussion of Social, Psychiatric and Literary Manifestations of Pathologic Sexuality."

i present a salient excerpt:

"Actual observation reveals people seeking genital satisfaction with or without love and respect for the partner, with almost infinite degrees and kinds of interpersonal attitudes. So, too, we see great variations of feeling, distaste, liking, indifference, respect, devotion, tender regard in the relation of people to objects poorly designed to arouse or to satisfy any sensuously sexual aim."