Ladies that aren't reference friendly.

[Guest]

Well poop, I have now encountered 6 ladies, some which are on TOB, who aren't reference friendly.  One even got pissed off at the gent for trying to see another lady, instead of her.  This is words from a veteran, take it how you want it. 

I have been in this business on and off since I was 18.  I am now 30.  For some of you newer ladies, grow up!!! There are only three types of men in this industry. 

1.) The Regular- this type of gent only sees one lady at time, he is committed to her, and will stick with her until she either retires, gets married, quit, etc.  Other women may pique his interest but sees tucks long as his ATF is available, he sticks  with her. 

2.) The dabbler- you are simply a notch in his belt.  This man loves all women, he loves big, little, white,  black, tends to dabble. So long as there are newer, younger,  older, fatter, skinnier girls, he will dabble and try one of each. 

3.) A little bit of 1, and 2.  This gent has some girls he sees often but will still try the 31 flavors often.  He may return to you, but he isn't the hobby commited  type.  If you can leash him in for are while, great! But know that reviews of other ladies will pop up here and there!!

The reason for pointing this out ladies, and most of more mature hobbyists know this.  

YOU ARE NOT MY COMPETITION, AND I AM NOT YOURS. 

Either  the gent will see you again, or he wont, or he will come back after a while.  Let's keep  eachother safe. The whole point of giving ladies references on guys is to ensure first off he isn't LE, second he was a gentlemen, third if there is anything crazy you should know about him. 

Take pride in being the kind of provider who gives references, at no point in time, unless someone sabotages you, or defames  you, is another provider affecting your wallet. Only you can do that.  In the instance today where I told the gent his reference didn't reply, and she proceeds to get upset with him, she sabotaged her own wallet by her childish behavior.  

 

Ladies we don't have to find a salon and go do our hair and nails together but if we can help the other one from getting raped, beaten, robbed etc. 

 

Rant done.

 

-sincerely the long winded hooker. 

[crazyb]

You have made several very good points.  When providers do this it also screws the customer.

 

 

[pfunk]

[Guest]

Sorry for all the typos, when I rant I tend to not pay attention and proof read!

[Danielle Rae]

Very good rant, Spice. I've never understood how or why the "jealousy" card is played in this business.  It's makes ZERO sense.  I, personally, don't ask others to provide references for any of the men I see - but I will gladly provide them if asked.  My biggest problem is that I don't save any information and therefore when a provider contacts me saying "so and so said you could give him a reference, his phone # is ________ and he met with you approx 3 months ago" - I honestly have no clue whether I've met him or not so I end up requesting that he either contact me or provide the other lady with more information that could remind me of our time together.  I'm sure because of these "possessive" providers - my intentions in requesting that he contact me could be mistaken as me being jealous or spiteful too. I have a hard enough time remembering my own name and number - there's no way I'm gonna remember with any certainty who I have or have not met with several months ago LOL  

Ladies -- seriously - grow up and stop being so ridiculous.  

 

[sparkey600]

1 hour ago, SpiceInCo said:

Sorry for all the typos, when I rant I tend to not pay attention and proof read!

It was a very good "rant" and you pointed out some very important truths to this hobby.

The most important one is to maintain a safe "neighborhood" and to look after one another's backs.

I see a lot of logic in this, thanks for bringing it up!

[Guest]

Interesting post.  I agree that references, freely given by all providers to all providers, is the best possible condition for a community such as ours to have.

But I'm a little surprised at the surprise.  This is an illegal activity that potentially generates hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.  And it takes work to screen a new guy.  Help him through those first sessions, so that he no longers cums the minute you touch his peepee, or stops leaving skid-marks on your sheets.  So, after developing this guy into a fairly reliable cash-cow, some other gal wants to start milking him, too.  Benefit from all your hard work.

This desire to protect your assets (yes, gentlemen. You are an asset. All clients of a loyalty-based business are assets to that business.) is not unusual in the business world.  This is so common, even places you would not expect do it.

Churchs often try to entice the reliable, tithing members from other churches.  This practice is so common, it is actually given a name:  "Stealing Sheep."

So, Spice, if christians do it, you should not be surprised when....after that reference request call to Suzy Creamschmear....Suzy calls up your potential new client and tell him she will fuck him a whole lot better than you will, and she'll even undercut your price a bit.  It sounds mean.  It seems underhanded.  But it's not personal.  It's business.

And BTW, johns love a good "gasoline price war" as much as anyone else.

Just my 0.02.

[Guest]

Won't let me make a correction so I'll just add that this is why P411 is a benefit to both provider and client.  It helps reduce this type of business practice.

[Bit Banger]

7 minutes ago, Laplace said:

...

So, Spice, if christians do it, you should not be surprised when....after that reference request call to Suzy Creamschmear....Suzy calls up your potential new client and tell him she will fuck him a whole lot better than you will, and she'll even undercut your price a bit.  It sounds mean.  It seems underhanded.  But it's not personal.  It's  business  ...

If Suzy calls to entice me with deep discounts, I'm going to examine why I strayed in the first place. If Suzy calls to intimidate, she kills the golden goose. 

Mine of the reasons I only saw my favorites once/yr was to keep it business. One of the reasons I saw 1-2 new (to me) providers each year was attrition; favorites tended to disappear. 

Back to the OP:

Failing to provide references is akin to not writing reviews because "I want to keep her for myself."  I can understand the request for more information because you don't keep records. Even in the business world it is considered polite for a hiree to contact his potential references giving them a heads-up about the impending call. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, SpiceInCo said:

YOU ARE NOT MY COMPETITION, AND I AM NOT YOURS. 

I'm thinking that some girls see you as very much their competition. In the larger sense and over a longer time, I'm sure you are correct. But for a girl with only a few regular clients and bills to pay, I can see why she might not be so eager to facilitate John seeing the new girl in town. Particularly if she knows John only plays once or twice a month and if he sees you, it will be awhile before she sees him again. Not saying it's the right way to do business; in the long run, it makes things harder and less safe for everyone involved. But I can see why it happens.

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, SpiceInCo said:

There are only three types of men in this industry. 

I thought of a fourth type...the list guy. I was that guy when I started at this many years ago. I identified about a dozen girls I was interested in based on their reviews, ads, board presence, etc and then started working through them. A couple of them moved or retired before I got to them and a couple of new girls showed up to take their place. By the time I was done, I had settled on three that I really liked and sort of stopped shopping. 

[Guest]

I can't understand defending the gals who refuse to give a reference... I don't care if they potty trained the client and breast fed him.  Holding him hostage by not giving a reference is bad business.  I am a connection kind of guy so in the beginning I was close to Raoul's list guy.  I would see a lady and if neither of us felt any connection, or the right one, I would move on.  If each of those ladies in order had refused to give me a reference, I would have quit the hobby out of frustration and returned to my path of monk like celibacy.

Thank god, the ladies I saw were willing to give me references until I finally found the connection I wanted all along and am in my happy place. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Riggo
Forgot a bit

[Guest]

See and that's what so wierd, Suze Sleezebucket,  can lower her rates to draw them in, but only desperate men are going to see a woman based off of her donation.  It is only used a selling point. 

 

Suze Sleezebucket is a 5 on the scale, gives a good Bbbj but has horrible IOP, and BCD. But she's only 80 for a romping hh. Then you have Jessica Makes ya jizz in your pants Simpson who is an 8 on the scale.  She isn't perfect but she's pretty damn awesome.  Has great IOP, TOB, BCD, gives the best services but she won't do hh services and runs at 300 an hour. 

 

Suze Sleezebucket gets a call from Jessica, gives her shit because she "doesn't know him". That's not going to stop Bill my dick is hard Jones from seeing Jessica.  Sometimes a man wants a beer, sometimes he wants a fine wine. 

 

Men are not assets,  we can give them great service for years, and one day they will move on.  That's the beauty of the hobby, you cant move on from you wife (you can but it's expensive) but you can move on from your flavors of the week. Just as you should be able too.  Nothing a woman can do can keep a dabbler around, literally nothing.   

[Mya Midnight]

 

14 hours ago, SpiceInCo said:

Ladies we don't have to find a salon and go do our hair and nails together but if we can help the other one from getting raped, beaten, robbed etc. 

Thank you Spice, such an important point. Safety and solidarity y'all! I also think its, ehem,  interesting that a provider might expect her client to be monogamous with her considering most of us are... polyamorous

[SultryKitten]

The problem is that younger and newer providers don't realize that they are a commodity in this business, and one of the most important things is providing good customer service to get repeat business. Clients are not going to return if there is trouble with the customer service, issues with location, threat of safety, etc. There is always someone prettier, better, and more available than you. :-)

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

[Guest]

Great post!  I am always happy to give a reference for many of the above safety concerns. LADIES, I have NO record keeping. I stopped doing that years ago. SO, if you call me and ask for a phone number or e mail, I am gonna ask you to go back to the guy and ask him for a more detailed way to confirm him. VERY FEW guys I add into my contacts, and I have started to give all my repeats my personal number.

Nobody is my competition, but you would be surprised how many narrow minded people are out there. I am seriously thinking about implementing the code word for verification again. I see mostly regulars now, but I am always happy to share.

[Kandi Apple]

References are a great thing.  I can recall most but of course not all. I am always happy to provide a reference to keep the girls safe. It is brief and not detailed on specifics.

There may be a Yes he is Ok but needs to shower or a hell no I would not see him again! The confirmation from an other Reputable provider is comforting to the ladies and our safety. We all are in this industry for one reason or another other. It is definitely not a competition. 

Gentleman like verity and we all very in shape, size, and age. 

Gentleman also very. They may be great for one of us and a horrible experience for an other. 

This is the way of things though.

As it is said YMMV can apply for both. 

The importance of a reference is that indeed we met and this guy is not LE.

To me anyway.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, SpiceInCo said:

I have now encountered 6 ladies, some which are on TOB, who aren't reference friendly.  Unfortunately this does happen more often than it should. 

One even got pissed off at the gent for trying to see another lady, instead of her. WOW, hopefully the client is smart enough to never go back her again. 

I told the gent his reference didn't reply, and she proceeds to get upset with him, she sabotaged her own wallet by her childish behavior.  

This is one of the reasons why I have encouraged getting a P411 account. So all this drama cam be avoided. Your ok's are your references. 

 

6 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

If Suzy calls to entice me with deep discounts, I'm going to examine why I strayed in the first place. If Suzy calls to intimidate, she kills the golden goose. Some guys actually fall for this. 

 

6 hours ago, Laplace said:

this is why P411 is a benefit to both provider and client.  It helps reduce this type of business practice. Very true. 

 

6 hours ago, Laplace said:

And BTW, johns love a good "gasoline price war" as much as anyone else. Iv always felt that the majority of the guys could careless. 

 

5 hours ago, Raoul said:

I'm thinking that some girls see you as very much their competition. Very true.

But for a girl with only a few regular clients and bills to pay, I can see why she might not be so eager to facilitate John seeing the new girl in town. Particularly if she knows John only plays once or twice a month and if he sees you, it will be awhile before she sees him again. Not saying it's the right way to do business; in the long run, it makes things harder and less safe for everyone involved. But I can see why it happens. Its not the clients fault she only has a few repeats. 

 

3 hours ago, Mya Midnight said:

Thank you Spice, such an important point. Safety and solidarity y'all! I also think its, ehem,  interesting that a provider might expect her client to be monogamous with her considering most of us are... polyamorous  I am 100% with you on this one. This always shocks me that some providers think they own these guys. That they can control who they are seeing.  

 

1 hour ago, SultryKitten said:

The problem is that younger and newer providers don't realize that they are a commodity in this business, and one of the most important things is providing good customer service to get repeat business. Clients are not going to return if there is trouble with the customer service, issues with location, threat of safety, etc. There is always someone prettier, better, and more available than you. :-) xoxo, Samantha Sheppard. Its both younger and older. Maybe you notice more from the younger/newer gals. 

Myself and other providers, have complained about this problem here in Denver. I am 100% reference friendly!! I love sharing. 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Nikki Holiday

[fishndude57]

6 hours ago, Laplace said:

Won't let me make a correction so I'll just add that this is why P411 is a benefit to both provider and client.  It helps reduce this type of business practice.

Agreed, some other sites where I'm white listed must help too. After reading this thread I realize I've been more or less thinking of and approaching the screening process incorrectly. I have never called a Provider to request an appt. I always and will always only use text, PM, or email. I always am polite and if they require at least full name, I supply it. I've only been ever asked except once a Provider's name and number that I've seen. I feel conflicted that I've never asked nor ever will ask for a Reference or okay if you will, on this site. I will always supply the information if I am asked again no problem, I just feel like I'm intruding on gal if I provide like their phone#, again I've only ever been asked once. That being said, I've been fortunate to have seen a couple of wonderful ladies exclusive to this site, have seen them more than once and we have fun. As far as the price war goes, I generally always round up if not a flat rate, and am rather fond on occasion to gift cards. Generally on 2nd meetings but sometimes on 1st. If I entertain 2 ladies and one ladies fee might be somewhat more, both are taken of equally, always. I simply appreciate the opportunity that I've met so many wonderful gals, I'll not abuse the privilege, I for one will always within reasons of privacy and safety for all provide from my side what screening info they require. It'll be interesting when I get feedback that someone wouldn't provide info on me...Peace

Edited March 17, 2016 by fishndude57
Forgot to say Peace

[Guest]

Something I forgot to mention, sometimes providers do not give references because they don't want to deal with drama that might come along with it.  

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Nikki Holiday said:

they don't want to deal with drama 

 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Nikki Holiday said:

Something I forgot to mention, sometimes providers do not give references because they don't want to deal with drama that might come along with it.  

Yep.  Two way street.  I've heard that some providers are not asked for references for the very same reason.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, SpiceInCo said:

Suze Sleezebucket gets a call from Jessica, gives her shit because she "doesn't know him". That's not going to stop Bill my dick is hard Jones from seeing Jessica.

It will, won't it? I mean if Jessica sticks to her screening guns? Isn't the lesson here for Bill to call Suze first and ask her if it's okay to give Jessica her number and to call for a reference? I know I have seen girls require this very thing or they will not give the vouch.

Where this falls apart however, is that from what you have told us about Suze, she's prolly not gonna answer Bill's call. Maybe she didn't screen him in the first place and is not interested in helping you. Or maybe her phone just fell in the toilet as she was trying to check her tumblr. 

For guys trying to build their rep (or re-establish one after a hiatus) we need to make sure that the girls we want to use as references are willing and able to do so. Get that buy in at the beginning.

[ChicaChaser]

1 hour ago, Nikki Holiday said:

Something I forgot to mention, sometimes providers do not give references because they don't want to deal with drama that might come along with it.  

Thats actually pretty funny

[Womanlover-3464]

7 hours ago, Mya Midnight said:

 

Thank you Spice, such an important point. Safety and solidarity y'all! I also think its, ehem,  interesting that a provider might expect her client to be monogamous with her considering most of us are... polyamorous

Off topic, but it gave me a chuckle....polyamorous! Now I know the name of my affliction (lol).😄

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Womanlover-3464 said:

Off topic, but it gave me a chuckle....polyamorous! Now I know the name of my affliction (lol).😄

Tis always good to know the proper name for what inflicts you! 

That way you can inform the EMT's that arrive at the scene! 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Riggo

[Womanlover-3464]

On March 17, 2016 at 8:00 PM, SpiceInCo said:

Well poop, I have now encountered 6 ladies, some which are on TOB, who aren't reference friendly.  One even got pissed off at the gent for trying to see another lady, instead of her.  This is words from a veteran, take it how you want it. 

I have been in this business on and off since I was 18.  I am now 30.  For some of you newer ladies, grow up!!! There are only three types of men in this industry. 

1.) The Regular- this type of gent only sees one lady at time, he is committed to her, and will stick with her until she either retires, gets married, quit, etc.  Other women may pique his interest but sees tucks long as his ATF is available, he sticks  with her. 

2.) The dabbler- you are simply a notch in his belt.  This man loves all women, he loves big, little, white,  black, tends to dabble. So long as there are newer, younger,  older, fatter, skinnier girls, he will dabble and try one of each. 

3.) A little bit of 1, and 2.  This gent has some girls he sees often but will still try the 31 flavors often.  He may return to you, but he isn't the hobby commited  type.  If you can leash him in for are while, great! But know that reviews of other ladies will pop up here and there!!

The reason for pointing this out ladies, and most of more mature hobbyists know this.  

YOU ARE NOT MY COMPETITION, AND I AM NOT YOURS. 

Either  the gent will see you again, or he wont, or he will come back after a while.  Let's keep  eachother safe. The whole point of giving ladies references on guys is to ensure first off he isn't LE, second he was a gentlemen, third if there is anything crazy you should know about him. 

Take pride in being the kind of provider who gives references, at no point in time, unless someone sabotages you, or defames  you, is another provider affecting your wallet. Only you can do that.  In the instance today where I told the gent his reference didn't reply, and she proceeds to get upset with him, she sabotaged her own wallet by her childish behavior.  

 

Ladies we don't have to find a salon and go do our hair and nails together but if we can help the other one from getting raped, beaten, robbed etc. 

 

Rant done.

 

-sincerely the long winded hooker. 

Ok, back on topic. There is a 4th category, similar to (1) above. I was seeing 2 gals, UTR, for over two years. They wanted no reviews so I was absent from the boards and had no use for a popular referral site. Then we got divorced, one got married and the other returned to her home state. So I was left with no references and no gals who would see me without them. If it hadn't been for this board and a few beautiful gals, I'd be stuck. So even when I get comfortable again (and I think I may have found one) I'll still see gals from time to time just so I have some sort of track record that I'm safe. You need a safety valve in this hobby!

[Guest]

Shay C. Provided a great reference tonight. Thank you! 

[Bora Bora]

On 3/17/2016 at 0:25 PM, Melissa Sterling said:

I am seriously thinking about implementing the code word for verification again. I see mostly regulars now, but I am always happy to share.

Once I met a lady that actually does that. At the end of the appointment she gave me the "code word" to use if I ever wanted to meet with her again or if I wanted to ask for a reference. She said she didn't keep any kind of record. I thought it was funny but it makes sense. It's just another way of facing the problem.

 

[ajot]

Too much to quote, so I'll just jump to the best bits on topic:

1. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, cause I'd sure have loved the counter offer of "come back to see me for $$ off!" - haven't had one of those before. Though if that's ever offered, take her up on it then go see the new gal for your next tryst!

2. That's an interesting dynamic that someone pissed off her client. I mean, I got annoyed at the first few girls I saw here because they were bad about giving refs to some of the traveling girls I wanted to meet. Getting P411 finally REALLY fixed that problem. Now I just associate that membership cost with the cost of doing this. (And believe me, paying it completely anon was annoying and cost a bunch extra to figure it out - still worth it).

3. I was wrong, one quote:

On 3/17/2016 at 9:11 AM, SpiceInCo said:

See and that's what so wierd, Suze Sleezebucket,  can lower her rates to draw them in, but only desperate men are going to see a woman based off of her donation.  It is only used a selling point. 

Just to be clear, that is wrong. Every guy is going to see a provider based off her donation. After one of the other threads, really guys have a yes/no/maybe switch. If the donation changes, that can really change where that switch flips - sometimes a very tiny amount changes that far more than it should! The best providers will sometimes run the right type of special that will entice the client she wants to see more of. A $50 off special that shows your normal prices are worth $100 more than the competition? A win for you as he will come back.

4. You may actually be in competition and not know it. If she is going to lose a weekly regular to you, even if it's just one visit, that hurts her. But as everyone points out, probably the money lost by an appointment here and there will probably be made up by someone else trying her out - though more importantly the loss is far less than the help from being a bit safer.

5. The point of your rant needs to be brought up again and again - refs help everyone, please help us all out and be friendly about it ladies! (Though that's not to say anyone should expect you to return a call or a check in only 5 minutes!)