Bbbj & tf

[afuntime4us29t]

On a recent trip to San Fran./San Jose, I noticed that most providers perform TF and not BBBJ. This of course got me thinking about Colorado providers. The majority of the providers here in Colorado perform BBBJ.

I am concerned with safety just like everyone else here and wanted to get the forums take on:

1) STD's which can be transmitted through oral sex

2) Providers comments on offering BBBJ and/or TF

[juanduh]

Pleas search past post th is topic has been discussed many times

[MAG]

On a recent trip to San Fran./San Jose, I noticed that most providers perform TF and not BBBJ. This of course got me thinking about Colorado providers. The majority of the providers here in Colorado perform BBBJ.

I am concerned with safety just like everyone else here and wanted to get the forums take on:

1) STD's which can be transmitted through oral sex

2) Providers comments on offering BBBJ and/or TF

Rather than staring at the computer screen, anxiously waiting for discussion, use that brand new account of yours to search the forum for past topics. It will take you hours to read through previous discussions of this exact topic.

[Ridehard351]

Don't worry about av8tr or his comment. That is his official comment every time anybody asks a question on this board.

[Crazy Horse]

What?!? You mean there's no one out there that wants to beat this dead horse into another bloody pulp. Must be hard to be a newbie on TOB as there's almost no way possible to come up with a new and interesting topic.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[mrvegas63]

Well, ok, ask providers for their point-of-view.

As for STDs, maybe a better idea to consult your doctor or maybe NIH website. You know, individuals that should have educated information, as opposed to the amateur Marcus Welbys on this site.

http://search.nih.gov/search?utf8=✓&affiliate=nih&query=sexually+transmitted+disease

[Crazy Horse]

On a recent trip to San Fran./San Jose, I noticed that most providers perform TF and not BBBJ. This of course got me thinking about Colorado providers. The majority of the providers here in Colorado perform BBBJ.

I am concerned with safety just like everyone else here and wanted to get the forums take on:

1) STD's which can be transmitted through oral sex

2) Providers comments on offering BBBJ and/or TF

I will start the discussion in one direction.

While I agree that BBBJ may be more common here in Colorado than other parts of the country because that's what it takes to succeed with the local market demands. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's a majority. Maybe close but not yet over 50%.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[lilithia]

When it comes to locals Ladies are known here in Colorado to do just about anything to make a buck and for very little in return.

That's why I love gentleman who are from out of state.

And yes its over 50%

LIlithia

[EuropeanMonger]

When it comes to locals Ladies are known here in Colorado to do just about anything to make a buck and for very little in return.

That's why I love gentleman who are from out of state.

And yes its over 50%

LIlithia

You know, not all of us locals are complete assholes that expect the world of the local support staff. Just sayin'. Some of us actually do care about the women who work and respect your boundaries.

[inkspot]

You know, not all of us locals are complete assholes that expect the world of the local support staff. Just sayin'. Some of us actually do care about the women who work and respect your boundaries.

Ah, she is just having a bad day.

[lilithia]

nope you are wrong not having a bad. Having a bad day would sound like this. All the locals are complete assholes who expect the world of the local staff with little to no regard of our health their health or the health of their wives.

Just saying' Whatever respect boundaries what's that.

Lilithia

[Bit Banger]

Some ASPs & clients view these transactions in an adversarial nature, us vs. them. Others seek mutual benefit. Attitudes are displayed appropriately in TOB.

[lilithia]

Adversarial my ass, mutual benefits $$$ -vs- the kitty litter. It doesn't get anymore mutual than that. LOL

As long as we give our clients song and praise in the session you need not worry what the attitude is after the glory.

Edited May 22, 2014 by lilithia
reasoning.

[MAG]

Adversarial my ass

Nope, not adversarial at all

[gettin' up there]

Gosh I'm glad I live in Colorado! Beautiful landscapes, beautiful ladies and beautiful BBBJs. What more could a guy ask for? Everyone makes choices regarding everything they do, whether it's driving a car or having sex. Living is highly associated with some adverse events. No one is forcing the ladies to do what they choose to do. I respect their boundaries, but I do make my choices based on the activities offered and the relative low risk of bad outcome, either LE, STD, or trouble with my SO.

[Guest]

H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.Blank Apr 26, 2010

Welcome to the STD forum.

Responding first to the title you chose for your question: STDs are not transmitted by kissing. Some STDs, but not others, are possible through oral sex. Still, oral sex -- even if unprotected -- is a lot less likely to result in STDs than vaginal or anal sex.

Now I have read the question itself. First, don't feel unusual or embarrassed by not using condoms or other barriers for oral sex. Very few people do that. And although the STD risks aren't zero, they are low enought that for the most part it doesn't much matter. Oral sex, even unprotected, generally is in the safe sex category. Having said that, people who are nervous about it and want 100% protection should consider condoms for fellatio (oral-penile contact) and dental dams or a sheet of food wrap for cunnilingus (oral-vaginal).

To your specific questions: 1) Kissing carries no STD risk. Nobody can say it is zero, and rare cases of syphilis have been transmitted by kissing. And oral herpes can and usually is transmitted by kissing, but that's not considered an STD.

2) Unprotected fellatio can result basically in 3 STDs in men: Herpes due to HSV-1, if the oral partner has an active case of oral herpes; gonorrhea, which is uncommon but certainly happens; nongonococcal urethritis (NGU), which sometimes may be due not to an STD per se but to entirely normal oral bacteria. Of these, NGU is probably the most common; herpes and gonorrhea are rare. Chlamydia, HSV-2, and HPV are rarely if ever transmitted by oral sex. And syphilis is so rare anyway that it's not a serious consideration. There probably have been zero syphilis cases transmitted by kissing in the past few years (in the US).

V3aginal to oral STD transmission is really rare. There are theoretical risks for gonorrhea, herpes (HSV-2), oral HPV infection, and perhaps others -- but in my busy STD clinic (15,000 patient visits per year) we rarely if ever see such a case. Here is a thread that gives some of the biological reasons that STDs are transmitted in certain ways but not others. Please read it, starting with the follow-up comments that .begin Dec

ember

Http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1119533__________________

[Lucy Kitten]

Rather than staring at the computer screen, anxiously waiting for discussion, use that brand new account of yours to search the forum for past topics. It will take you hours to read through previous discussions of this exact topic.

Sure, maybe it's a beat to death topic but most of these discussions are full of useless comments like these. Until Denver and surrounding areas cease to be a hot spot for such activity this topic will be brought up again and again.

The one thing that has never been approached during all these conversations is why guys feel the need to penalize a girl for offering a safer service? UTF should be a special treat, possibly at a higher rate, not an expectation or a reason for a so/so review. My opinion as a provider, give that control back to the ladies. Spout all the health statistics there are, the level of risk should be controlled by person providing the service.

Aurora Mike, please don't ever think that gentlemen like you ever go unappreciated, you just happen to be in the minority when it comes to that sentiment about UTF.

[MAG]

The one thing that has never been approached during all these conversations is why guys feel the need to penalize a girl for offering a safer service?

Pray tell, how are any girls being penalized?

[Lucy Kitten]

H. Hunter Handsfield, M.D.Blank Apr 26, 2010

Welcome to the STD forum.

Responding first to the title you chose for your question: STDs are not transmitted by kissing. Some STDs, but not others, are possible through oral sex. Still, oral sex -- even if unprotected -- is a lot less likely to result in STDs than vaginal or anal sex.

Now I have read the question itself. First, don't feel unusual or embarrassed by not using condoms or other barriers for oral sex. Very few people do that. And although the STD risks aren't zero, they are low enought that for the most part it doesn't much matter. Oral sex, even unprotected, generally is in the safe sex category. Having said that, people who are nervous about it and want 100% protection should consider condoms for fellatio (oral-penile contact) and dental dams or a sheet of food wrap for cunnilingus (oral-vaginal).

To your specific questions: 1) Kissing carries no STD risk. Nobody can say it is zero, and rare cases of syphilis have been transmitted by kissing. And oral herpes can and usually is transmitted by kissing, but that's not considered an STD.

2) Unprotected fellatio can result basically in 3 STDs in men: Herpes due to HSV-1, if the oral partner has an active case of oral herpes; gonorrhea, which is uncommon but certainly happens; nongonococcal urethritis (NGU), which sometimes may be due not to an STD per se but to entirely normal oral bacteria. Of these, NGU is probably the most common; herpes and gonorrhea are rare. Chlamydia, HSV-2, and HPV are rarely if ever transmitted by oral sex. And syphilis is so rare anyway that it's not a serious consideration. There probably have been zero syphilis cases transmitted by kissing in the past few years (in the US).

V3aginal to oral STD transmission is really rare. There are theoretical risks for gonorrhea, herpes (HSV-2), oral HPV infection, and perhaps others -- but in my busy STD clinic (15,000 patient visits per year) we rarely if ever see such a case. Here is a thread that gives some of the biological reasons that STDs are transmitted in certain ways but not others. Please read it, starting with the follow-up comments that .begin Dec

ember

Http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/1119533__________________

So what about the risk factors for the ladies? The level of promiscuity? These stats don't mean much to someone who participates in as much activity as escorts do. There are other scary things aside from STDs that no one wants to bring home.

How common is oral HPV?

Studies in the U.S. have found that about 7% of people have oral HPV. But only 1% of people have the type of oral HPV that is found in oropharyngeal cancers (HPV type 16). Oral HPV is about three times more common in men than in women.

How do people get oral HPV?

Only a few studies have looked at how people get oral HPV, and some of these studies show conflicting results. Some studies suggest that oral HPV may be passed on during oral sex (from mouth-to-genital or mouth-to-anus contact) or open-mouthed (“French”) kissing, others have not. The likelihood of getting HPV from kissing or having oral sex with someone who has HPV is not known. We do know that partners who have been together a long time tend to share genital HPV—meaning they both may have it. More research is needed to understand exactly how people get and give oral HPV infections.

BTW these were copied from the CDC website

Not known if it will happen via oral and not likely are two very different things. I won't disagree that certain STDs in certain circumstances are more difficult to catch but to say that anything uncovered is safe is irresponsible. It's not about trying to convince people that something is safer, it should be more about the individual accepting the risk after assessing all the information without persuasion.

Edited May 23, 2014 by luce kytten
forgot to add my source!

[Lucy Kitten]

Pray tell, how are any girls being penalized?

You can actively contribute to the system, read reviews, actually read threads, write reviews and maybe then you will be more familiar.

Take a bit of your own advice and read through old threads about UTF and you will find hours of comments to read I won't take your bait any more.

Edited May 23, 2014 by luce kytten
forgot a word

[Lucy Kitten]

I will start the discussion in one direction.

While I agree that BBBJ may be more common here in Colorado than other parts of the country because that's what it takes to succeed with the local market demands. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say it's a majority. Maybe close but not yet over 50%.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

It's only something that is needed to succeed because somehow the guys took control of that service. Demand for service certainly isn't lacking in CO and there is a fair amount that seem to succeed without doing it so maybe it's not entirely needed to succeed. This isn't a jab at all the guys either it's how things evolved around here.

In my experience it is definitely the majority. Tongue in cheek totally, have you been sucking a lot of dick lately?

[Crazy Horse]

You can actively contribute to the system, read reviews, actually read threads, write reviews and maybe then you will be more familiar.

Take a bit of your own advice and read through old threads about UTF and you will find hours of comments to read I won't take your bait any more.

I hope you don't dislike me as much as Av8r because the very exact question popped into my mind when I read your post. Of course you don't owe me or anyone else an answer but I'm sure there are going to be many guys that read that statement and go .

Other than normal free market forces were one service provider will see more business than another when they offer more for a customer's bucks where is the punishment. Could it be reviews that are only Very Good instead of Fantastic. Those are very subjective to begin with and I doubt that many if any were used to punish.

What I find objectionable is the number of times over the years that ladies who only offer TF come on the board to start or contribute to a STD thread in an attempt to stampede potential customers towards their "safe" service.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Lucy Kitten]

I hope you don't dislike me as much as Av8r because the very exact question popped into my mind when I read your post. Of course you don't owe me or anyone else an answer but I'm sure there are going to be many guys that read that statement and go .

Other than normal free market forces were one service provider will see more business than another when they offer more for a customer's bucks where is the punishment. Could it be reviews that are only Very Good instead of Fantastic. Those are very subjective to begin with and I doubt that many if any were used to punish.

What I find objectionable is the number of times over the years that ladies who only offer TF come on the board to start or contribute to a STD thread in an attempt to stampede potential customers towards their "safe" service.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Certainly no hate in your direction. Truly I am happy to point out suggestions just not going to be baited by an antagonistic poster. The most recent example I can think of is the how much would you pay for UTF thread. I can think of reviews that I have read that are just "meh" about the whole experience because of that one activity. The old argument that a lady can't be GFE if she doesn't do this! I am not saying that it's outright hatred but TF ladies are not held in the same esteem that UTF ladies are.

[MAG]

I won't take your bait any more.

You just did.

And as CH said, it's a valid question. Just because reviewers point it out as a detail doesn't mean anyone is being penalized. It simply means that some offer it and some don't, and for others it's YMMV.

Just because some guys claim you can't be "GFE" without it, doesn't mean you're being penalized or criticized for not offering UTF. Some guys say the same thing about kissing.

Do what you feel comfortable with, but don't come here and boo-hoo about the fact that some guys won't want to see you because of it.

[Bit Banger]

... I am not saying that it's outright hatred but TF ladies are not held in the same esteem that UTF ladies are.

There's a reason for that - the sensations are not the same!

There's no "hatred", but TF is not the same bang for the buck.

If you enjoy DATY, even if just with an SO, try it with plastic wrap next time. Then ask, "What's the difference?" For me (and I've tried it) it's "meh".

I go back far enough that condoms were used primarily to prevent pregnancy. STDs like clap, etc. we're treated at the clinic. You should have heard the stories in 'Nam about the incurable "black syphillis". Then along came big, bad HIV, mostly in the gay community were sex often involved anal micro-tears & semen/blood mingling. It also effected the IV drug community, mostly due to needle sharing (again mixing w/blood). At that time HIV/AIDS was the big scare, the unknown disease. How long has It been since Magic Johnson retired from the NBA? How long has he been in HIV treatment? Did it change his life? Yes. Is he dead? No!

Now the big scare is HPV. If you believe the press, we are ALL already infected! The main hope is that they can vaccinate sufficent of the young crowd BEFORE they become sexually active, create herd immunity, and eliminate the virus.

If you want to eliminate life's risks, live in a bubble!

[Bit Banger]

...

Do what you feel comfortable with, but don't come here and boo-hoo about the fact that some guys won't want to see you because of it.

It's about choices. Some you make; some we make.

[Crazy Horse]

Certainly no hate in your direction. Truly I am happy to point out suggestions just not going to be baited by an antagonistic poster. The most recent example I can think of is the how much would you pay for UTF thread. I can think of reviews that I have read that are just "meh" about the whole experience because of that one activity. The old argument that a lady can't be GFE if she doesn't do this! I am not saying that it's outright hatred but TF ladies are not held in the same esteem that UTF ladies are.

BTW my last paragraph was not directed towards you and I should have made that clear but there have been many times when I've questioned the motives of a TF only lady's contribution to a STD thread.

You make some good points. I've never agreed with the whole can't be a GFE or Fantastic session unless she provides UTF. I think that the guys who will only see UTF providers are fools because they will miss out on seeing some wonderful ladies but it's their money to use to purchase their fantasy so it's their loss not mine. Paying more for what you want is simply a free market force and there are some ladies that take advantage of this by offering it as an additional menu item to be purchased or have a higher starting fee if it's part of the main package.

Held in higher esteem...I don't know about that, maybe for a few guys. For many of us there are many more contributing factors to a successful session than just UTF. And what about the guys that are safety first cover up everything clients. Nobody ever talks about them in these threads. Are they in such a small minority that the TF only ladies don't bother to advertise to that demographic because I'm not seeing it in the ladies' ads. Or is the tactic to bring the client in before making it clear what is or isn't on the menu.

In any case it's a shame that this topic usually descends into an us vs them, who has the controlling power in this particular market kinds of arguments.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[MAG]

..........

In any case it's a shame that this topic usually descends into an us vs them, who has the controlling power in this particular market kinds of arguments.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

All good points CH, but especially this one.

I think some guys prefer TF only providers, and some guys don't care about French at all? Where are the UTF ladies, bitching that THOSE guys? We may as well have a separate thread for every preference....LFK vs DFK, Greek, etc. we've had similar threads about MSOG.

There's someone for everyone. No provider is going to appeal to all guys, whether because of TF vs UTF or some other reason. Whining about it won't change it.

[Lucy Kitten]

There's a reason for that - the sensations are not the same!

There's no "hatred", but TF is not the same bang for the buck.

If you enjoy DATY, even if just with an SO, try it with plastic wrap next time. Then ask, "What's the difference?" For me (and I've tried it) it's "meh".

I go back far enough that condoms were used primarily to prevent pregnancy. STDs like clap, etc. we're treated at the clinic. You should have heard the stories in 'Nam about the incurable "black syphillis". Then along came big, bad HIV, mostly in the gay community were sex often involved anal micro-tears & semen/blood mingling. It also effected the IV drug community, mostly due to needle sharing (again mixing w/blood). At that time HIV/AIDS was the big scare, the unknown disease. How long has It been since Magic Johnson retired from the NBA? How long has he been in HIV treatment? Did it change his life? Yes. Is he dead? No!

Now the big scare is HPV. If you believe the press, we are ALL already infected! The main hope is that they can vaccinate sufficent of the young crowd BEFORE they become sexually active, create herd immunity, and eliminate the virus.

If you want to eliminate life's risks, live in a bubble!

That's so silly and not even close to the point. The point is that no outside influence should have an impact on what someone believes is personal safety. If you believe the CDC which I do, HPV affects a very large portion of the population but usually clears up before the person ever notices. It is not in itself cancer causing but opens the door and makes some more susceptible. Making it very likely that all of us have been affected by it at some point.

Magic Johnson may still be alive but at the peak of the AIDS crisis damn near 100% of hemophiliacs tested positive . How many of them you suppose are still alive? Or shall we name all the celebrities whose lives were taken as a result? That list is much longer than those who survived like Magic Johnson.

I am not going to argue then sensation but if it's so important to you then pay a higher price. This shouldn't be about more bang for the buck, it should be about recognizing that all uncovered activity has risk and if you are willing to take that risk find someone who is like minded. Don't make it the same deal for everyone.

[Lucy Kitten]

All good points CH, but especially this one.

I think some guys prefer TF only providers, and some guys don't care about French at all? Where are the UTF ladies, bitching that THOSE guys? We may as well have a separate thread for every preference....LFK vs DFK, Greek, etc. we've had similar threads about MSOG.

There's someone for everyone. No provider is going to appeal to all guys, whether because of TF vs UTF or some other reason. Whining about it won't change it.

It's sad how frequently you miss the point. This isn't about preference this is about safety and who gets to choose to exercise their right to use it. The UTF ladies aren't bitching because they are more than happy to provide a safer service to those who ask.