Wow how things have changed around here! :)

[boink36]

So Payton/Samantha, when are you making your comeback?

This post is only bait for the infraction she would get with an answer. please read #1.

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_post_rules

[Yogi]

There is no difference between a pimp and agency owners.....

I have no idea about this -- but when has that stopped anyone here from voicing an opinion -- but an agency seems to fall somewhere between pimp and phone girl.

Well take care of the logistics -- advertising, booking, rates, incall -- and you give us X% of your fees, but if you want to bail. Fine.

vs the pimp model that involves intimidation, coercion, et al. or the phone assistant who seems to run bookings...I assume.

[Guest]

C.C. was my first experience in the hobby. You may have been my "first" !

[Seeking ~P]

Madames are pimps too

Not true. I have never been a pimp

[Bit Banger]

Madames are pimps too, ...

Not true. I have never been a pimp

In the eyes of the law they are the same; both are covered by pandering ordinances. Madams have a more benevolent image than pimps, but that is not always the case. There was a Chinese madam in San Francisco (I can remember her name.) who was every bit as bad as any pimp you've ever heard of, worst than most. The business practices of agency owners are more closely aligned with those of pimps as they tend to manage a stable of outcall ladies instead of a brothel, which is the usual MO of a madam.

While there are more negative images attached by society to the term 'pimp', there is little difference in a technical sense. But somehow when a woman is pandering society gives her a pass on these negative images. IMHO the riff is similar to that between street walkers & escorts; they are both charged with the same crime.

[FatDog]

Not true. I have never been a pimp

a pimpette

[Guest pejo]

a pimpette

or a pimple?

[Seeking ~P]

a pimpette

Nope!!!!

[Max101]

I remember Colorado Companion. That was the agency that got busted, right?

you're thinking of denver sugar.

OK, I was thinking of Bada Bing agency which was another one from way back....

I was Payton back then. Wow, how 10 years can pass so quick!

WOW! What a nostalgia trip! I used to travel to Denver quite a bit back in those days and was trying to remember some of the agencies, and, particularly, why they weren't around now. Actually, I didn't necessarily expect that these particular agencies would still be around. But, I've noted recently that Denver agencies seem to have almost vanished.

I was still pretty limited in cellphone and laptop use, so I seldom had the chance to spend the time required to set up an appointment with an indie. But, CC and others were always reliable, could respond to my short-notice needs, and the ladies were generally spectacular.

Speaking of Louisville, I vaguely remember that the big busts occurred there when one hotel ratted out another one (or something like that). The hobby was so alive & well in Louisville that I remember setting up a CC appointment only to find that she was in the same hotel only three doors down. (I never told her!)

Yes, Payton... I fondly remember you from an incredible couple of hours in one of the Louisville hotels one night! You had short blond hair, right???

[JRWolfe]

This post is only bait for the infraction she would get with an answer. please read #1.

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_post_rules

True...but she could always pm him ?

Edited August 12, 2015 by JRWolfe
spell

[FatDog]

[engineer]

I sure do miss Ashley and her Angels

[sparkey600]

I sell my mind and talents on a dailey basis.

Today I made 47 cents.

In general terms, I'm not a fan of agencies, I don't like the idea of money that should go to the working girl going to a "scheduler"

That said I have NO use for a pimp, IMHO, they prey on the people that have no other choices, that is the defination of a pimp.

Bit, there is a huge difference between a pimp and a scheduler/agency.

Agreed. But our point is that not all pimps are bad news. When I worked for a consulting firm, my "pimp" kept the groceries on my table.

No, I was't selling my body, I was selling my mind.

[Bit Banger]

According to a Freakonomics study in Chicago (their first book as I recall) gals working with a pimp made more money after his cut than independents. Granted, not all pimps are as portrayed by Jack Lemmon in Irma la Duce, or even Huggy Bear of Starsky & Hutch, but where do we draw the line. For me that line is when they use coercion or {other means} to maintain their stable. Mere economic pressures, which most of us are subject to, is not sufficient. Especially since pimps often provide some services ( booking, protection, etc.) for their cut. Just as there are good madams (Everleigh sisters by most accounts) & bad madams, there is a range of the male equivalent, pimps. But a "righteous" society has cast the term into the purgorative class, forever to be damned!

[Servius]

They are referring to pimped streetwalkers, based on Sudhir Venkatesh's work, the Columbia sociologist accused by others of credulity, sloppy scholarship, and even ethics violations ... but nonetheless Levitt and Dubner in Freakonomics make the plausible claim that many streetwalkers prefer to work with pimps because they bring in better clients (resulting in higher income even after the pimp's 25% cut). This is quite different from the internet-age independent. What is more, pimped women have many more encounters with johns than the average independent in the course of a day. When one considers the attendant drug abuse, violence, and sheer physical toll and hence the limited occupational lifetime earnings expectancy, I doubt one could make a good case (not that anyone here has) for being pimped. A study out of Toledo (pre-internet board explosion) on pimping makes interesting reading if you can locate it: Pimp Controlled Prostitution by Williamson and Tolar.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Servius
Typo

[Bit Banger]

I'm not trying to portray all pimps as good guys; many have earned their foul reputations (Jello?). But it irks me when all pimps are smeared, just as it irks me when all prostitution is linked with trafficking by the righteous.

[Servius]

I know you're not, and I agree. There are variations and shades of gray on what constitutes pimping. I think the issue of abuse, be it physical, mental, or financial ... or some combination thereof ... is the operative moral condition that one must examine in assessing any of its multifarious forms. You said as much. However, there is a large body of academic and anecdotal evidence to suggest there is substantial abuse arising from the sex trade. The fact is that many, perhaps most hobbyists will be unaware of what really occurs behind the scenes, and there is a concomitant tendency to rationalize ignorance as innocence in the pursuit of personal gratification. I myself preferred to look for true independents to the extent that I could identify them, so as to not contribute to abuse, that is, if the possibility existed, about which I would likely be unaware. Could I be certain? Not always. There are some clues as to whether or not someone is pimped, and most experienced hobbyists know them. That a provider says she is independent is fairly worthless in the absence of other information. The internet, despite its several safety deficiencies, has happily enabled many women to cut out or mitigate the more egregious forms of the middle man. Despite the technical legal similarities that obtain, I would not categorize some agencies or schedulers or board managers in quite the same way as the streetwalker's middleman, or the AMP's mamma san or the common BP pimp.

[Bit Banger]

... However, there is a large body of academic and anecdotal evidence to suggest there is substantial abuse arising from the sex trade. ...

My problem with many of these "studies" is that they are conducted or sponsored by organizations with a vested interest in perpetuating the stereotypes. Perhaps they receive government funding based on trafficking statistics or are supported by a social/religious group trying to stamp out all forms of prostitution. Many stretch category definitions to paint a darker picture than reality, or discard data which does not fit their model. My real ire is reserved for the women's rights groups and activists trying to eliminate prostitution who fail to recognize the liberating effects of independent sex work.

Check out some of yyzyyz's posts for rebuttals.

... I myself preferred to look for true independents to the extent that I could identify them, so as to not contribute to abuse, that is, if the possibility existed, about which I would likely be unaware. ...

As do I, though I do on occasion seek relief in AMPs. I still remember the local mama-san who was a provider herself; she became one of my ATFs.

[Servius]

Skepticism is healthy, and one ought to keep confirmation theory in the back of one's mind in examining any study. Or for that matter any anecdote used to justify one's prejudice. My simple view is one's own body is the original and most inviolable property right, and what one does with it is one's business to the extent it is a rational, free, adult choice, and that it does not harm another.

[Bit Banger]

... one's own body is the original and most inviolable property right, and what one does with it is one's business to the extent it is a rational, free, adult choice, and that it does not harm another.

I like it! All except the "free" (in a $s sense). One should be able to compensate another or be compensated by another their choices.

"Free" in a freedom/liberty sense - we agree.

[Servius]

Yes, I mean chosen freely. Without untoward coercian. One should be able to trade to satisfy an interest.

[Bit Banger]

I thought you did.