The War on Sex is escalating

[yyzyyz]

Senate Sex Trafficking Bill Criminalizes Online Publishers and Creates State-Accessible Sex Worker Registries. -The "Save Act"

Two consenting adults getting together in private may put you in prison for long time - Welcome to America! - "Where all Sex is evil"

See link below:

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/01/save-act

[Guest Mr.Bubble]

I saw this, too. From the article:

"it holds online publishers criminally liable not only for illegal activity facilitated though their ad sections but also for failing to keep—and make available to attorneys general—proper records on all adults advertising legal or illegal erotic services. "

The problem is, who will fight this? No one wants to put their political career on the line by "defending prostitution."

I can see Gina's P411, based in Canada, TEMPORARILY gaining value, until all other sites have been taken down. When P411 is the lone survivor....it will become the focus of mass media hysteria and be brought down by international pressure. "For the unmentionables."

How many ASPs will just give up the trade? Will "regulars" and "repeat clients" become more valued? How about known providers forced UTR?

I've heard of the UTR gals in this business, but.....to a guy like me who participates only 2 to 3 times a month.....they might as well be Bigfoot or Nessie. I would have absolutely no idea as to how to go about meeting an UTR provider. I only found out about TOB and ECCIE via a reference in a backpage ad, and discovered P411 via TOB. All these avenues will be shut down. So, before this is passed into law, would a good strategy be to meet as many providers as possible before the lights go out? That way, you have established contacts.

Why can't they just leave us alone?

[AaBrenly]

It's an election year so I'll wait and see how hot this topic is after the elections. It doesn't help with all the other negative press from traffickers and people peddling [snip}. They all get lumped together to be dealt with the same way. Traffickers and pimps etc. should be dealt with harshly - consenting adults should be left alone and not have any government intervention.

Edited July 6, 2014 by boink36
Forbidden topic removed.

[yyzyyz]

I suggest you read about Somaly Mam, Nick Kristof, Chong Kim - The Sex Trafficking liars.

When it comes to Sex Trafficking lying is the norm:

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/05/30/somaly-mam-holy-saint-and-sinner-sex-trafficking-251642.html

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/30/world/asia/cambodia-sex-slavery-foundation-hero-resign/

http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/

[Bit Banger]

As your links clearly point out, it's about money! Money for the NGOs and LE organizations.

Thank you, yyzyyz, for keeping on top of this issue. As others have pointed out, what politician wants to stand up on this issue and risk smearing their name by both liberals & conservatives. After all, think of the poor {unmentionables}. "It's for the ..." Is a political lodestone.

Yes, it exists. Yes, those who operate in this venue (trafficking & {unmentionables}) are scum & should be punished. But no matter how draconian the laws, no matter how many have their rights trampled, it will continue to exist in some small way. Instead "the righteous" will use a broad brush to tar & feather the lot of us.

[Lucy Kitten]

I saw this, too. From the article:

"it holds online publishers criminally liable not only for illegal activity facilitated though their ad sections but also for failing to keep—and make available to attorneys general—proper records on all adults advertising legal or illegal erotic services. "

The problem is, who will fight this? No one wants to put their political career on the line by "defending prostitution."

I can see Gina's P411, based in Canada, TEMPORARILY gaining value, until all other sites have been taken down. When P411 is the lone survivor....it will become the focus of mass media hysteria and be brought down by international pressure. "For the unmentionables."

How many ASPs will just give up the trade? Will "regulars" and "repeat clients" become more valued? How about known providers forced UTR?

I've heard of the UTR gals in this business, but.....to a guy like me who participates only 2 to 3 times a month.....they might as well be Bigfoot or Nessie. I would have absolutely no idea as to how to go about meeting an UTR provider. I only found out about TOB and ECCIE via a reference in a backpage ad, and discovered P411 via TOB. All these avenues will be shut down. So, before this is passed into law, would a good strategy be to meet as many providers as possible before the lights go out? That way, you have established contacts.

Why can't they just leave us alone?

The Hollywood based movie studios had no problem tracking down the creators of Megavideo and shutting them down. When there is money involved I don't think it will matter where the site is hosted. I don't see the Feds being all too happy about any site that makes money in this way, I can see them being especially cranky about so much money leaving the country too.

We can hope that they can leave is alone or figure put new methods, I see new methods of business happening before we are ever left alone.

[csdude]

Been at this around 10 years and have yet to meet a woman under 18! And have no desire. You hear about one incident and everyone is under 18. Only in America, where BS is money!

[N6_in_the_village]

It's an election year so I'll wait and see how hot this topic is after the elections.

Unfortunately (if you are hoping that the drive to pass flawed and over-reaching laws such as this will decrease "after the elections"), there is no such time as "after the elections", only before the next elections. To underline my point, the main sponsors of this bill, Senators Kirk and Feinstein, are next up for re-election in 2016 and 2018.

[N6_in_the_village]

Not to worry, Mr. Bubble. Imagine the worst case: if this or similar laws are passed, and then upheld by the courts as constitutional (a bigger if), and then on-line escort ad sites are taken down or go out of business ... many ladies will take their search for clients to more traditional locations, such as "the streets".

(I don't think this would be desirable, but I believe it would be the ultimate outcome.)

[ash_36]

The Hollywood based movie studios had no problem tracking down the creators of Megavideo and shutting them down. When there is money involved I don't think it will matter where the site is hosted. I don't see the Feds being all too happy about any site that makes money in this way, I can see them being especially cranky about so much money leaving the country too.

We can hope that they can leave is alone or figure put new methods, I see new methods of business happening before we are ever left alone.

The United States is essentially "in control" of the .com domain name and the US government can have any of these sites shut down regardless of where the servers or site owners are located. That is why sites like The Pirate Bay use obscure domains, usually under control by smaller countries. Even then, they still need to change domains often.

[fork]

When it comes to Sex Trafficking lying is the norm

It just seems weird that almost every one of your posts is about sex trafficking. I'm not attacking you, you bring up some good points for discussion, it just seems ... obsessive?

I think about sex all day, not sex trafficking.

[Lucy Kitten]

It just seems weird that almost every one of your posts is about sex trafficking. I'm not attacking you, you bring up some good points for discussion, it just seems ... obsessive?

I think about sex all day, not sex trafficking.

It takes those that are passionate about the problem and the truth to make a difference. He always has great links to share and many links I don't think most of us would have stumbled upon ourselves.

[AaBrenly]

Not exactly what I meant - I do not think the spotlight will ever go away. Right now any party that can gain the "moral" high ground will do that to help for reelections for the ones who are up for reelction. I just think people who have other agendas for the spotlight, tend to lump the really bad with everything else they can lump it with to further their own ends.

[yyzyyz]

Somaly Mam and Nicholas Kristof should have lawsuits filed against them for committing fraud and stealing money from the public by providing the public with false sex trafficking horror stories that were lies to send money to the Somaly Mam and Afesip charities. These charities then committed human trafficking themselves by forcing women to stay in their (rescue) centers against their will and to lie about being forced into sex trafficking to the western media and donors.

Somaly Mam lied to the world:

Not only had Somaly Mam not been an orphaned trafficking victim – she grew up with both parents and graduated from high school – but she forced, encouraged and coached girls to lie as well. One of these girls was Long Pros, who, actually lost her eye to a tumor and was sent to Afesip for vocational training. The same was reportedly true of Meas Ratha, allegedly coached by Mam to say she had been trafficked when in fact she was sent to Afesip by an impoverished farming family, desperate to give their daughter a better start in life. These two girls were never prostitutes and never forced sex trafficking victims.

Extreme scenarios Mam often invoked - girls put in cages, tortured with electricity, having their eyes gouged out by pimps. “We never encountered any such thing, and we certainly looked for it,” the study’s author, Thomas Steinfatt, said this week. “We couldn’t find any instances of that … In terms of people tortured, I think they’ve been watching too many movies.” Somaly Mam was never sold for sex. Nor was Long Pross. When Pross was 13, a nonmalignant tumor which covered her eye was surgically removed. There were no electrical currents. No rape. No torture. No piece of metal gouged deeply into her eye. Those were lies. Lies propagated by Somaly Mam. And to some extent, lies encouraged by the Western media who had been captivated by increasingly horrific tales of sexual predation.

Somaly Mam forced girls to lie about being victims girls like Long Pros, Meas Ratha, and many others. She didn't just lie about herself. Many women said they were willing sex workers who had been rounded up off the street during a police raid and sent to Afesip, headed by the internationally renowned anti-sex-slavery crusader Somaly Mam with funding from the foundation that bears her name.

They said they were confined there for months as purported victims of sex trafficking. Srey Mao claimed that she, her friends and a number of other sex workers in the centrer were instructed by a woman to tell foreign visitors they had been trafficked.

“I was confined against my will,” Srey Mao said on Saturday.

The person she said instructed ordered her and others to lie was Somaly Mam.

Aid workers say that fake fabricated stories are common in the anti-sex trafficking NGO's and with politicians.

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/aid-worker-claims-fabricated-stories-are-common-46708/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/somaly-mam-scandal-victims-can-lie/372188/

http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/

[Guest]

I am not surprised.

[pitbull]

The third largest party in the U.S. -- the libertarians -- will take this on. If you feel passionate about this topic, change your party affiliation to libertarian. The libertarians are republicans minus the moral issues, and they have a true devotion to limited government. They are the party to stop the escalating "war on sex" that the OP is rightly concerned about.

[imwhoim]

The third largest party in the U.S. -- the libertarians -- will take this on. If you feel passionate about this topic, change your party affiliation to libertarian. The libertarians are republicans minus the moral issues, and they have a true devotion to limited government. They are the party to stop the escalating "war on sex" that the OP is rightly concerned about.

I could not agree more. Vote for the socially liberal and fiscally conservative Libertarian party. We are not perfect either. But, we are the best available option for those interested in the War on Sex issue. Both major parties lean towards authoritarian. The majority of Americans actually are philosophically libertarian. They just don't vote Libertarian. Here's a quiz. I am a moderate libertarian leaning slightly right.

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html

[pitbull]

I could not agree more. Vote for the socially liberal and fiscally conservative Libertarian party. We are not perfect either. But, we are the best available option for those interested in the War on Sex issue. Both major parties lean towards authoritarian. The majority of Americans actually are philosophically libertarian. They just don't vote Libertarian. Here's a quiz. I am a moderate libertarian leaning slightly right.

http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html

At the risk of hi-jacking the thread, it's true that the libertarians are not "perfect" and it's funny -- it seems that dems and repubs don't really care that their party is not "perfect," but many people throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to libertarianism. But you are right, most people are philosophically libertarian and don't even know it. For something like the "war on sex" and the "war on drugs" -- the libertarians are the best. Even if you happen to be republican, a vote for the libertarians has always served to push the republicans back to their long-forgotten limited government roots.

[imwhoim]

At the risk of hi-jacking the thread, it's true that the libertarians are not "perfect" and it's funny -- it seems that dems and repubs don't really care that their party is not "perfect," but many people throw out the baby with the bath water when it comes to libertarianism. But you are right, most people are philosophically libertarian and don't even know it. For something like the "war on sex" and the "war on drugs" -- the libertarians are the best. Even if you happen to be republican, a vote for the libertarians has always served to push the republicans back to their long-forgotten limited government roots.

Here in Larimer county, over the last few years things have changed such that there are now more unaffiliated registered voters than either Republican or Democrat. A well funded charismatic third party candidate would actually have a chance of winning.

I think that the war on sex is a lot like the war on drugs and the war on gays. The younger people are much more open minded and personally experienced with these issues. It is only a matter of time till change occurs. It's a good thing IMO.

As long as we don't keep giving up more citizen rights like we did after 911, the citizens will gravitate toward a more libertarian form of government. Snowden is an American hero IMO. And I think there will be a backlash from recent ineffective wars which will head us towards more isolationist foreign policies again.

Over all I am optimistic about our future.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

In our current political situation voting libertarian is a wasted vote. I have never voted for anyone only against what I consider the worst alternative. I am a left leaning libertarian.

[lola]

The A holes that be are banking on the shame of this industry. No one is personally going to out themselves and take this all the way to the supreme court... I see people comment repeatedly about "taking one for the team" but there IS no team.. All we can pray for is enough ladies that see politicians and are willing to blackmail them.

a few listen and a few respond without being blackmailed. i applaud...no i bow to those who have done and continue to do the work to expose the sex trafficking lies and to gain respect for the wishes of two consenting adults.

you're right. there is no team....only a handful of women doing it on their own with precious little support from those who stand to gain from their work.

i'm guilty too of not doing as much as i should.

[pitbull]

Here in Larimer county, over the last few years things have changed such that there are now more unaffiliated registered voters than either Republican or Democrat. A well funded charismatic third party candidate would actually have a chance of winning.

I think that the war on sex is a lot like the war on drugs and the war on gays. The younger people are much more open minded and personally experienced with these issues. It is only a matter of time till change occurs. It's a good thing IMO.

As long as we don't keep giving up more citizen rights like we did after 911, the citizens will gravitate toward a more libertarian form of government. Snowden is an American hero IMO. And I think there will be a backlash from recent ineffective wars which will head us towards more isolationist foreign policies again.

Over all I am optimistic about our future.

I disagree with you on Snowden, because if we are truly serious about staying out of wars, we need a vigorous spying program. Exposing secrets willy nilly is not a good course. And yet, I am in danger of spiraling off the rails of this thread. Again, libertarians don't have to agree on EVERYTHING, but I suspect we would agree on MOST things. Be well.

[imwhoim]

I disagree with you on Snowden, because if we are truly serious about staying out of wars, we need a vigorous spying program. Exposing secrets willy nilly is not a good course. And yet, I am in danger of spiraling off the rails of this thread. Again, libertarians don't have to agree on EVERYTHING, but I suspect we would agree on MOST things. Be well.

I agree that there is great benefit to spying. I spent 6 years working in that industry and understand parts of it reasonably well. But, clearly the government overstepped its legal limits. 100s of attempts to correct the problems using proper channels were unsuccessful. Snowden TOFTT by exposing and hopefully reining in the spy agencies and now he will pay the price as a traitor. Those who make up the rules also get to penalize those who break the rules regardless of whether it is right or fair to you or me.

[imwhoim]

In our current political situation voting libertarian is a wasted vote. I have never voted for anyone only against what I consider the worst alternative. I am a left leaning libertarian.

As long as people believe this ^ there will be no change. I used to feel the same way. But, after years of wasting my vote on the lesser of the two evils, I decided to take a stand.

“Do not let the hero in your soul parish, in lonely frustration, for the life you deserved but never have been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desire can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours.”

― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

[Lucy Kitten]

As long as people believe this ^ there will be no change. I used to feel the same way. But, after years of wasting my vote on the lesser of the two evils, I decided to take a stand.

“Do not let the hero in your soul parish, in lonely frustration, for the life you deserved but never have been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desire can be won. It exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours.”

― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

“What is politics, after all, but the compulsion to preside over property and make other peoples' decisions for them? Liberty, the very opposite of ownership and control, cannot, then, result from political action, either at the polls or the barricades, but rather evolves out of attitude. If it results from anything, it may be levity.

If civilization is ever going to be anything but a grandiose pratfall, anything more than a can of deodorizer in the sh*thouse of existence, the people are going to have to concern themselves with magic and poetry.

Reality is subjective, and there's an unenlightened tendency in this culture to regard something as 'important' only if it's sober and severe. Your Cheerful Dumb are not so much happy as lobotomized. But your Gloomy Smart are just as ridiculous. When you're unhappy, you get to pay a lot of attention to yourself. And you get to take yourself oh so very seriously. Your truly happy people, which is to say, your people who truly LIKE themselves, they don't think about themselves very much. Your unhappy person resents it when you try to cheer him up, because that means he has to stop dwelling on himself and start paying attention to the universe. Unhappiness is the ultimate form of self-indulgence.

Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been playful, rebellious, and immature.”-Tom Robbins

The lesser of two evils has long been the only choice we have. Have I "thrown away" a vote when there wasn't a lesser evil? Yes but it was nothing but a small personal victory.

The war on sex needs a voice not an affiliation.

[MAG]

How did we get from "war on sex" to "pointless spat about politics"?

[boink36]

At the risk of hi-jacking the thread,

Next time don't take that risk. when an otherwise interesting thread drops into the political political toilet it gets flushed.