Reading this made me feel very stupid

[Boardmember]

"As a rule, (providers) can’t stand it when clients keep harping on the “I want to please you” thing, because it can make it a lot harder for us to do our jobs. What if she’s a size queen and he’s average? What if she likes being pounded very hard and he’s too overweight or short-winded to accomplish that? What if she’s kind of submissive and a man refusing to lead is actually a turn-off? What if she’s primarily lesbian? What if she’s just anorgasmic and isn’t going to climax no matter what he does?"

[Guest]

Oh brother. If that made you sad, this board is probably not good for you.

I don't know how or why that makes you sad, but there is much truth in that post and little insulting or subjective matter.

[Guest hgritstoo]

Oh brother. If that made you sad, this board is probably not good for you.

I don't know how or why that makes you sad, but there is much truth in that post and little insulting or subjective matter.

I didn't interpret his post that way. The thread is titled "this makes me feel STUPID, which I interpreted as "awwww geeze.....look at this.....I've been doing it wrong,!"

This is something that you lovely ladies may lose sight of in your day to day dealings with

both the good guys and the bad guys.

I once told Beverly Fisher that she was the most intimidating woman I'd ever met. And this is why. A lot of us are hardwired to care about the people we are intimate with. We are nowhere near as experienced as the ladies we are with. We are totally clueless as to what your life is like......but in our world if you care about the lady you strive to please the lady, and something is wrong when you don't.

You state that there is much truth the the OP's post, and I agree. But, it is a paradigm that is completely foreign to some people........and takes a long time to adjust to. I still struggle with it.....no matter who I see. But the struggle is more difficult with those providers you like and respect. You want more than anything to share the pleasure, but for one or more of the reasons listed in the original post, if you try, or insist upon it, you make things more difficult for her. And you DON'T want to do that for the same reasons you DO.

This is a paradox I have not been able to resolve.

No matter how true the statement is that I am paying for MY pleasure, like the OP, I still sometimes "do it wrong." So, yeah, I feel stupid sometimes, too.

[pfunk]

I try to make it easy for them to do their job, which is helping me feel better. I show up clean, not moody, willing to talk and listen, and without too much of an agenda.

Kinda like a date.

Even in real life, women are responsible for their own orgasms, aren't they?

[Boardmember]

Oh brother. If that made you sad, this board is probably not good for you.

Not sad: stupid or foolish or something in that neighborhood. Do you think it should make me feel sad, instead? If so, why? (I'm honestly interested in that interpretation.)

I don't know how or why that makes you sad, but there is much truth in that post and little insulting or subjective matter.

Again, not sad. I'm not completely following the second half of your sentence. ...and little insulting or subjective matter.

And now for the TL/DR part of our program....

I don't think there is any argument that generally a client makes a provider happy 1) with the donation; 2) by being clean, respectful, courteous; 3) by expressing and acknowledging that the provider is providing enjoyment/happiness and that the session has left the a client in a better place. (I'm adding #3 because it does come up often as a reason some woman do this job -- satisfaction from making people happy.)

So, for the majority of providers I would guess, there are several other things that on that list -- "meeting new people" is one I've heard, "being one's own boss," "flexibility in work schedule" -- that come well before "client providing physical pleasure to provider." I'm not saying a provider doesn't enjoy the physical aspect, but I think it moves around the list depending on many circumstances, as Pfunk alluded.

The reason this is a challenge for myself and why it made me feel stupid, is that even when meeting criteria 1, 2 & 3 and other provider recommendations, it feels selfish and self-centered not to reciprocate in a way that is very important to me -- physically. But, which incorrectly assumes is important to her. And, doing so makes it worse, as Grit said, and shows an ignorance of a provider's job.

I wouldn't run out and change the spark plugs of my mechanics car after she fixed my steering column* or try to wash my barber's hair or take the doctor's temperature after a visit. Doing that is missing the point of their work.

My mechanic likes cars, fixing them and making a living doing so. And, hopefully, she derives a bit of satisfaction that I can now get to work because she fixed my car. My expressing thanks and showing her my happiness at having my car back is a nice perk. Changing her spark plugs, maybe not? This not a true one-to-one comparison given the emotions and intimacy involved in a client/provider meeting, but I think close.

There probably isn't anything wrong with trying to make the experience physically enjoyable for her. Clear feedback from the provider, though, probably would go a long way toward the proper direction of activities.

I think I have been guilty of trying to please to a degree that makes me now think was counterproductive. That's why the original quote had the effect it did.

*yeah, I think I'm much funnier than I am.

[MAG]

Oh brother. If that made you sad, this board is probably not good for you.

Who said he was sad?

I don't know how or why that makes you sad, but there is much truth in that post and little insulting or subjective matter.

Who said he was sad?

and little insulting or subjective matter.

Who said it was insulting

[Jez UaBriain]

:-) jh:rolleyes:

Who started an argument?

Who went off topic (other than you, that is)?

i don't see this as a reason for argument. I see it as a good discussion.

And a good d read. We have some interesting interpetations.

I do have to agree with pfunk on the fact that we ourselves. as individuals

are responsible for our own orgasms

:-)

Edited November 10, 2013 by Jez UaBriain
damn android

[Denguy40]

Staying on topic - there is one particular provider that I've seen twice. We don't click per say, and although I'm hard wired to prefer mutual satisfaction sometimes the end orgasm and visuals this provider has trumps the emotional end of it all. This topic is a can of worms since many of us would prefer mutual connection and satisfaction over a stronger physical attraction.

I am very tempted to go off topic and express my opinion of a certain participant in this thread but ill keep it to myself.

[Guest hgritstoo]

:-) jh:rolleyes:

i don't see this as a reason for argument. I see it as a good discussion.

And a good d read. We have some interesting interpetations.

I do have to agree with pfunk on the fact that we ourselves. as individuals

are responsible for our own orgasms

:-)

Jez.....you grew up in Iowa. You more than anyone else here, should understand that the man is responsible for EVERYTHING!

I don't think there is any argument that generally a client makes a provider happy 1) with the donation; 2) by being clean, respectful, courteous; 3) by expressing and acknowledging that the provider is providing enjoyment/happiness and that the session has left the a client in a better place. (I'm adding #3 because it does come up often as a reason some woman do this job -- satisfaction from making people happy.)

So, for the majority of providers I would guess, there are several other things that on that list -- "meeting new people" is one I've heard, "being one's own boss," "flexibility in work schedule" -- that come well before "client providing physical pleasure to provider." I'm not saying a provider doesn't enjoy the physical aspect, but I think it moves around the list depending on many circumstances, as Pfunk alluded.

The reason this is a challenge for myself and why it made me feel stupid, is that even when meeting criteria 1, 2 & 3 and other provider recommendations, it feels selfish and self-centered not to reciprocate in a way that is very important to me -- physically. But, which incorrectly assumes is important to her. And, doing so makes it worse, as Grit said, and shows an ignorance of a provider's job.

I wouldn't run out and change the spark plugs of my mechanics car after she fixed my steering column* or try to wash my barber's hair or take the doctor's temperature after a visit. Doing that is missing the point of their work.

My mechanic likes cars, fixing them and making a living doing so. And, hopefully, she derives a bit of satisfaction that I can now get to work because she fixed my car. My expressing thanks and showing her my happiness at having my car back is a nice perk. Changing her spark plugs, maybe not? This not a true one-to-one comparison given the emotions and intimacy involved in a client/provider meeting, but I think close.

There probably isn't anything wrong with trying to make the experience physically enjoyable for her. Clear feedback from the provider, though, probably would go a long way toward the proper direction of activities.

I think I have been guilty of trying to please to a degree that makes me now think was counterproductive.

You ever have a really good day at work? You worked hard alongside a pleasant client, and damned if you didn't do a helluva job. And you sit back in the evening with the adult beverage of your choice and allow yourself the luxury of thinking "you know......I'm pretty damned good at this." Thats a good feeling.

And I understand on an intellectual level: that is the best feeling I'm ever gonna leave one of these ladies with. Getting to that understanding........especially for soft-hearted touchy-feely emotional guys....is a long process.

[Boardmember]

Getting to that understanding........especially for soft-hearted touchy-feely emotional guys....is a long process.

Yep.

[urfan]

nice post there, Gritz.

i can only imagine that seeing the 'o' face on a guy would tend to make a gal feel good about her chosen profession, so i always do my best to oblige, as i'm sure you do too.

how could they not derive substantial satisfaction out of that, i ask you.

and imho, it don't have nuthin ta do with me bein all emotional and everthin as a guy. i wear my heart on my sleeve proudly.

[Guest]

Oh brother. If that made you sad, this board is probably not good for you.

I don't know how or why that makes you sad, but there is much truth in that post and little insulting or subjective matter.

Excuse me. I meant to say stupid in place of sad.

[Guest hgritstoo]

Excuse me. I meant to say stupid in place of sad.

"If this makes you < feel stupid >, this board is probably not good for you."

Perhalps. Perhaps not. Life circumstances have made this activity my only viable sexual outlet. But it was an amazing new world to me. And, although many lessons have been hard....even painful at times... to learn, this board has provided a valuable education. It sounds like several other guys share my experience and feelings.....which provides a support network. And I've met some very nice people....yourself included.

I suspect the OP feels the same way.

[whsilk]

You have much more game than I do to have such an expectation, kudos.

That idea has never ever been a consideration for me. I don’t go to a restaurant wanting to serve the waitress lunch, I go to have lunch and the waitress is at work doing her job. I have the objective of being pleasant, polite, leaving a nice tip and maybe making her day at work a bit better by being the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work. It is my lunch break not the waitresses. She gets to have lunch on her time when she is not at work. Besides how creepy would it be if I told her to have a seat and asked her what she would like to have for lunch. I would no longer be the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work.

[MAG]

You have much more game than I do to have such an expectation, kudos.

That idea has never ever been a consideration for me. I don’t go to a restaurant wanting to serve the waitress lunch, I go to have lunch and the waitress is at work doing her job. I have the objective of being pleasant, polite, leaving a nice tip and maybe making her day at work a bit better by being the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work. It is my lunch break not the waitresses. She gets to have lunch on her time when she is not at work. Besides how creepy would it be if I told her to have a seat and asked her what she would like to have for lunch. I would no longer be the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work.

Well said.

For many guys around here, there's so much damned focus on "what the lady likes". Entire threads are devoted to things like "cologne or no cologne", "how should I manscape", "should I bring flowers or a gift". These guys want to turn this hobby-night into prom-night.

Most ladies would say, "DO be freshly showered, DON'T be a pushy asshole, and DO be on time". And, most importantly, DO bring money.

To all the pussy-whipped mice around here who want to know how to make a hooker come -- your ego is getting in the way. Just be respectful, be clean, and don't overstay your welcome.

[Guest hgritstoo]

You have much more game than I do to have such an expectation, kudos.

That idea has never ever been a consideration for me. I don’t go to a restaurant wanting to serve the waitress lunch, I go to have lunch and the waitress is at work doing her job. I have the objective of being pleasant, polite, leaving a nice tip and maybe making her day at work a bit better by being the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work. It is my lunch break not the waitresses. She gets to have lunch on her time when she is not at work. Besides how creepy would it be if I told her to have a seat and asked her what she would like to have for lunch. I would no longer be the type of customer she would like to see during her day at work.

Well said.

For many guys around here, there's so much damned focus on "what the lady likes". Entire threads are devoted to things like "cologne or no cologne", "how should I manscape", "should I bring flowers or a gift". These guys want to turn this hobby-night into prom-night.

Most ladies would say, "DO be freshly showered, DON'T be a pushy asshole, and DO be on time". And, most importantly, DO bring money.

To all the pussy-whipped mice around here who want to know how to make a hooker come -- your ego is getting in the way. Just be respectful, be clean, and don't overstay your welcome.

Apparently I suck at communication, too.

I agree whole-heartedly with what you guys are saying, and partly with what Destiny said.

I'm just saying that coming to that realization has been a slow process for me, that I still sometimes wrestle with it, and apparently others feel the same way. Which is why I have the one small disagreement with Destiny's response. This forum is an ideal vehicle for the hobbiest to disabuse himself of false notions. And that is how I interpreted the OP's post.

Just look at this thread on the same topic started by a dumb-assed newbie last year. Look at the wise advice given to him by fellow hobbiests. Pay close attention to the differing advice given by ladies who responded.

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32139

It took a newbie quite a while to learn that one group was telling the truth, when deep in his heart he wanted to believe the other group.

And just to clarify since I suck so bad at communicating: I'm not bitter, angry, resentful, or anything like that. Just older and wiser.

[urfan]

for them that remain clueless, here's porn star and self-promoting sex expert Tasha Reign's take on the subject:

http://www.brobible.com/life/article/ways-to-correctly-do-foreplay

[Guest]

There's a virus at that site. Be careful.

Did you notice the first item on her list? BE SELECTIVE

I am certainly no expert on providers. But it is pretty obvious to me that, in addition to her physical state of not being tired or worried or having already seen several men that day, the woman has to have some attraction to the man she is seeing to achieve orgasm.

Am I missing something here?

At least 90 percent of the men who see a provider are not going to be attractive to her. Face it guys. No matter how well you clean up, how polite you are, or how much you pay, she is just not going to be into you. You are old. Or fat. Or ugly. Or just plain bad in bed. Maybe all 4.

Remember, this is why you are paying a pretty girl to have sex with you.

Be happy that she is a good actress. If you are one of the 10 percent she is attracted to, and you get her in the right conditions, then you might have something to brag about.

If I understand it correctly, this is what the acronym YMMV stands for. And for most of the guys a provider sees, the mileage will vary a lot.

Get over it.

[dkstylez08]

Face it guys. No matter how well you clean up, how polite you are, or how much you pay, she is just not going to be into you. You are old. Or fat. Or ugly. Or just plain bad in bed. Maybe all 4.

awww

[No One In Particular]

At least 90 percent of the men who see a provider are not going to be attractive to her. Face it guys. No matter how well you clean up, how polite you are, or how much you pay, she is just not going to be into you. You are old. Or fat. Or ugly. Or just plain bad in bed. Maybe all 4.

The problem is, if a guy is over 22 or so, they can tell most of the time.

In particular, guys in long term relationships or just out of them are very familiar with what indifference or faked interest looks like as that's probably why they're seeing a provider in the first place; it's not just because they're not getting any but rather they may be getting only "duty sex" or "pity sex" and are looking for something that doesn't involve an all to palpable sense of just going through the motions because it's Saturday night.

This of course raises the question of how good an actress a given provider is. If you're a guy who is at all worldly and realize, as one example, semen landing upon a woman's breasts, face or stomach does not cause her to instantly have an earth-shattering, high volume orgasm of her own (like the aforementioned 22 year-olds likely do after having grown up on so much porn), it's going to play pretty badly.

I'd like to think a provider is getting something out of my visit other than the fee, but I'm not so naive as to not remember that if she does, it's a pretty rare occurrence.

[lilithia]

I like you response WHsilk, well said from a providers point of view. There are days and times I do not fell like cumming or even want to put the energy into it and depending on where I am at in my cycle it may not happen.

After all we ASP are still female in nature. No surprise here.

Lilithia