Posted March 27, 2012 The current TOB and LVfever Review Databases are very time consuming for those approving reviews and need work. I could put some effort into making changes to the Review Databases to help streamline the process a bit, but that takes time and costs a good bit of money (that wouldn't come out of my pocket in the end). So I am considering an alternative. I can create Review Forums, here on TOB, a la Eccie.net. This would mean that the vast majority of reviews could post without the assistance of the mods. The mods would only be called in to address issues if needed, and could have a life outside of TOB too! The old Review Database would remain as an Archive, but would be closed to new reviews. So anyway, I'm hoping to get some feedback from the community about the different directions we can take with the Review Database. Thanks for taking part in this poll! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 So, in other words make the reviews more like Eccie/TER, with the wanky details only available to paid members/previous reviewers? Seems fine to me, but I suspect the voyeurs won't care for it. On a related note: it would be a shame if TOB became more like the aforementioned ad saturated sites. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 What I like about the ECCIE reviews like you mentioned they post immediately. They still have to be approved by the mods though. Wondering if the mods here would be having to correct or delete more of the reviews. Could be more time consuming don't know. I do like the views or reads of the reviews though. The ladies might have a problem with an instant post of a review. Very interesting though. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 The current TOB and LVfever Review Databases are very time consuming for those approving reviews and need work. I could put some effort into making changes to the Review Databases to help streamline the process a bit, but that takes time and costs a good bit of money (that wouldn't come out of my pocket in the end). So I am considering an alternative. I can create Review Forums, here on TOB, a la Eccie.net. This would mean that the vast majority of reviews could post without the assistance of the mods. The mods would only be called in to address issues if needed, and could have a life outside of TOB too! The old Review Database would remain as an Archive, but would be closed to new reviews. So anyway, I'm hoping to get some feedback from the community about the different directions we can take with the Review Database. Thanks for taking part in this poll! Just bringing up some discussion points. Don't take them too seriously. 1) A forum based review system would remove the delays for posting and rebutting reviews. However, it could bring about board fights about individual reviews. 2) When new posts are made to the review forum then all users are notified by the "New Posts" link at the top of the page. However, if the ignore feature is used it would prevent someone from seeing the reviews from the people they are ignoring. 3) The forums are freeform and the review information may not be completed for every review and the review rules may not be followed when a review is submitted. So, rules like "only one review for every 4 months" and "Do not Review" would have to be manually enforced. 4) Currently, the contact informatiuon for the provider can be maintained by the provider for every review. If the reviews are freeform then so is the contact information. 5) Do not review list members and self reviewer's would be able to sneak in a review for a short amount of time(until the mods catch it) and be able use the board to promote themselves. 6) Currently, all the reviews for a povider are listed in a review search and at the bottom of each review. This feature could be impacted by a more freeform reiew system. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 ...I can create Review Forums, here on TOB, a la Eccie.net. This would mean that the vast majority of reviews could post without the assistance of the mods. The mods would only be called in to address issues if needed, and could have a life outside of TOB too! ...If they are like ECCIE, I'd be very much in favor. If it's like TER, I'd pass. ECCIE is nice b/c you have to be a member of it by contributing to it. They are too graphic with their system, so big plus one for me. I do like reading TER reviews but hate writing them. Don't care for ranking ladies by appearance and performance. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 So, in other words make the reviews .... details only available to paid members/previous reviewers? If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said. I have no intention of charging anyone to view reviews.... however, I am not going to pay out of my pocket so that you can read reviews for free. Moving to forum based reviews is cheaper than rebuilding the current Review Database, which is one of the main reasons I'm considering the change. If you reread my original post, you'll probably notice that's what I said. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 If that's what I meant, that's what I would have said. I have no intention of charging anyone to view reviews.... however, I am not going to pay out of my pocket so that you can read reviews for free. Moving to forum based reviews is cheaper than rebuilding the current Review Database, which is one of the main reasons I'm considering the change. If you reread my original post, you'll probably notice that's what I said. I was just analyzing the differences and some of thier possible outcomes. I wasn't trying to sway the crowd against the proposed change, however some of what I was saying might be used in designing and implementing a forum based review system, so that those issues have less of an impact. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 1) A forum based review system would remove the delays for posting and rebutting reviews. However, it could bring about board fights about individual reviews. If we don't allow providers to post on reviews, and we firmly moderate personal attacks and accusations, it will only get crazy occasionally (from what I've seen on other boards). If it become a huge issue, it's easy to stop allowing discussions on reviews. 2) When new posts are made to the review forum then all users are notified by the "New Posts" link at the top of the page. However, if the ignore feature is used it would prevent someone from seeing the reviews from the people they are ignoring. But if a person is being ignored, why would you want to see their review? 3) The forums are freeform and the review information may not be completed for every review Eccie uses a standard form for their reviews, so there must be a way for us to build something similar.and the review rules may not be followed when a review is submitted. So, rules like "only one review for every 4 months" and "Do not Review" would have to be manually enforced. Those rules are currently manually enforced, and one of the many reasons the current Review Database is a pain in the butt. 4) Currently, the contact informatiuon for the provider can be maintained by the provider for every review. If the reviews are freeform then so is the contact information. I agree, that is one negative of moving to forum reviews. 5) Do not review list members and self reviewer's would be able to sneak in a review for a short amount of time(until the mods catch it) and be able use the board to promote themselves. My thought on this is that the regular board users will be pretty quick to sniff out a fake review on their own, which would then bring the moderators attention for further investigation. As Mace is currently doing (without complaint, I might add), researching nearly every single posted review before approving or denying, is a hellish job. I was doing it on LVfever with Kaduk, and I assure you it sucks. 6) Currently, all the reviews for a povider are listed in a review search and at the bottom of each review. This feature could be impacted by a more freeform reiew system. This is another negative about switching to forum reviews. Once again the question is, should a handful of people devote way too much time keeping the Review Database going so that thousands of people have FREE access to a nice review database. Not to mention, should one person (ME) bear the financial costs of keeping it going while users access it for free? Quite honestly, we can't keep the current Review Database the way it is. It needs some major work to make it more manageable, which will cost something to the tune of $10,000. Where is that money going to come from? Not my pocket.... and that's all I know. So moving to forum reviews will at least allow us to continue offering free reviews, without the mods having to do too much grunt work. I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, though.... so I really appreciate the feedback! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 I was just analyzing the differences and some of thier possible outcomes. I wasn't trying to sway the crowd against the proposed change, however some of what I was saying might be used in designing and implementing a forum based review system, so that those issues have less of an impact. All of what you said made a great deal of sense! I was addressing another poster who assumed that we were was considering the move to forums so that I could start charging for access to reviews. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 All of what you said made a great deal of sense! I was addressing another poster who assumed that we were was considering the move to forums so that I could start charging for access to reviews. My assumption was based on the similarities between Eccie/TER limiting access to the detailed section of the reviews. I stand corrected, however I think a forum based review system would be a double edged tool at best. Considering the potential monkeyshines, policing the reviews could be a very busy task, but that is addressed by the additional mods, I guess. If the current review system has become unwieldy, for whatever reason, by all means change it; but forum based reviews seem fraught, IMO. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 This example is based on the current TOB review system. The user copys this template and then enters these fields. Provider: <Provider Name> City: <City> Phone Number:<Phone xxx-xxx-xxxx> In-Call or Outcall: <Enter Incall or Outcall> Consenting adult activities: <Enter from the following list Full Service,Translated French,Sensual Massage> Advertised Length of session: <In minutes or use multi-hour> Advertised Fee: <In dollars> Actual length of session:<In minutes or use multi-hour> Total paid:<In dollars> Tipping or up-selling? <Enter Tipping, Upselling, or No> ASP's attitude: <Enter Fantastic, Very good, Average, Not Good, or Terrible> Description accurate? <Enter Yes or No> Pictures accurate? <Enter Yes or No> Hair color: <Enter Hair color> Hair length: <Enter Hair length> Height / weight: <Enter Height> Intimate grooming: <Enter Clean shaven, Trimmed, or None> Body type: <Enter Slender, Athletic, Medium Build, Voluptuous, or Full Build> Tattoos: <Enter One, Few, Many, or None> Age: <Enter Legal to early 20's, Mid to late 20's, Late 20's to Early 30's, Mid to late 30s, Late 30's to Early 40's> Piercing: <Enter Ears, Few, Many, or None> Breasts augmented? <Enter Yes, but it's difficult to tell, Yes, it's obvious, or No > Smoker? <Enter Yes, but not during the session, Yes, during the session, Not that I could tell> Would I see this ASP again? <Enter Yes or No> Do I recommend this ASP? <Enter Yes, No, or Maybe > Overall Assesment: <Enter Fantastic, Very good, Average, Not Good, or Terrible> Additional Comments: <Enter additional commentary for the review> These come from the user side panel Date Posted and Reviewer 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 Wouldn't a moderator have to manually compile reviews under some "heading"? (name, city, review handle, etc.) On ECCIE, all reviews are attached under a providers name, manually. I assume that would be unwanted labor. I would think a multiple choice database form (like we have currently), but with automatic posting (after a reviewer has X number of reviews?) would be a better option. Just my dos centavos. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 Provider: Sally Scrumptious City: Denver Phone Number: 555-122-4567 In-Call or Outcall: Incall Consenting adult activities: Full Service,Translated French,Sensual Massage Advertised Length of session: 60 Advertised Fee: $200 Actual length of session: 60 Total paid: $200 Tipping or up-selling? No ASP's attitude: Very good Description accurate? Yes Pictures accurate? Yes Hair color: Red Hair length: Shoulder Height / weight: 115lbs Intimate grooming: Clean shaven Body type: Slender Tattoos: Few Age: Late 20's to Early 30's Piercing: Ears Breasts augmented? Yes, but it's difficult to tell Smoker? Not that I could tell Would I see this ASP again? Yes Do I recommend this ASP? Yes Overall Assesment: Very good Additional Comments: Treated me nicely, but seemed to get off to a slow start. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 I'm not a big fan of the forum based reviews. I like the database feel that TOB has and TER to some extent. I think it is much easier to use and search. One click and I can find all the reviews of a particular lady or all the reviews a client posted. I haven't spent much time on the mentioned review boards so maybe it is as easy but I don't really like the look to them so I don't spend much time there. IMO ECCIE is kinda clunky. The review database here is why I chose TOB and the board itself is not as cluttered as TER or ECCIE. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 This is another negative about switching to forum reviews. Once again the question is, should a handful of people devote way too much time keeping the Review Database going so that thousands of people have FREE access to a nice review database. Not to mention, should one person (ME) bear the financial costs of keeping it going while users access it for free? Quite honestly, we can't keep the current Review Database the way it is. It needs some major work to make it more manageable, which will cost something to the tune of $10,000. Where is that money going to come from? Not my pocket.... and that's all I know. So moving to forum reviews will at least allow us to continue offering free reviews, without the mods having to do too much grunt work. I'm not totally sold on the idea yet, though.... so I really appreciate the feedback! Another consideration, some of the reviewers have reviewer's handles that are different from thier board handles. In a forum based system the handles are the same. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 My assumption was based on the similarities between Eccie/TER limiting access to the detailed section of the reviews. I stand corrected, however I think a forum based review system would be a double edged tool at best. Considering the potential monkeyshines, policing the reviews could be a very busy task, but that is addressed by the additional mods, I guess. If the current review system has become unwieldy, for whatever reason, by all means change it; but forum based reviews seem fraught, IMO. Additionally, while my OP was a question, it implied paid access to reviews. It also mentioned an alternate path(similar to P411 membership); the point being limiting access to all or part of the reviews. Finally, if recent reports are to be believed, a regional board in Utah has recently started charging for membership to post in the forums at all; but I believe the forums also have review sections, so my question was innocent, and not without precedence. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 I agree that a Review Database is preferable to the end user. There is no question that it is a superior experience (at least in my opinion). The issue is that if we keep the current Review Database, it needs a good amount of work in order for it to be optimized so that it's more manageable on the Admin side. In plain English, if we keep the current Review Database, it will not be free. If you have a choice between a nice TOB Review Database that costs $5-$10/mo and a TOB Review Forum for free. which would you prefer? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 For me, it's not the cost. I just will not tie a credit card number to any "play" activities. I guess if it had a annual fee - cash option like P411 that might work. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 If you have a choice between a nice TOB Review Database that costs $5-$10/mo and a TOB Review Forum for free. which would you prefer? Free. I'm not willing to fork over any monthly fees for this hobby even though $5-$10 is really nothing. If it's clutter free, easy to use, easy to read and most importantly easy to search I will use it. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 If it's clutter free, easy to use, easy to read and most importantly easy to search I will use it. AND you want it to be free..... Maybe I'm not being clear, but this isn't going to be an option. It's an either/or situation. Personally, I'm leaning towards free and less work for moderators, BUT it wouldn't be as clutterfree or easy to search. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I agree that a Review Database is preferable to the end user. There is no question that it is a superior experience (at least in my opinion). The issue is that if we keep the current Review Database, it needs a good amount of work in order for it to be optimized so that it's more manageable on the Admin side. In plain English, if we keep the current Review Database, it will not be free. If you have a choice between a nice TOB Review Database that costs $5-$10/mo and a TOB Review Forum for free. which would you prefer? The proverbial "Brass Tacks", thank you for that. THR is the other board I know that uses the forum/template review, and it seems to work well enough, but it is so lightly attended that it would be difficult to extrapolate to TOB. My guess is that most would prefer a free, moderated(there's an oxymoron for ya, T.O.TOO;)) forum type review system, but hey I've been known to make bad assumptions in the past... Edited March 27, 2012 by MrReindeer Science! and changed trafficked to attended. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 AND you want it to be free..... Of course. I understand that it is a business for you but for me this is supposed to be fun. Monthly fees are not fun no matter how small and difficult to use is not fun. If this whole thing begins to not be fun then I will quickly lose interest. So my vote is for free. I'll keep an open mind and will try it, if it works for me great and if not oh well it's not that big of a deal. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 I'm guessing that free will win by a landslide. Though a pay site might actually gain the guys something closer to what they're clamoring for: accurate, verified, unbiased, quality reviews. Forum reviews are more corruptible. They post instantly and as such are more capable of being abused by members with nefarious intentions, favorites, grudges, asshat senses of entitlement, debts owed to those who engage in free fantastic-ing, etc. Corrupt reviewers posting punitive, fictitious, arbitrary or biased reviews if they feel their asses arent being kissed just right is nothing new… forum reviews could kick the kerosene can over and aim a blowtorch at that practice. Make that two blowtorches. On the other hand, forum reviews would be quite handy for certain semi-related purposes, like identifying actual self reviewers, more quickly revealing multiple board handles held by certain posters, etc. Incidentally, I think forum reviews would (or should) require a recognizable handle, matching names for reviews and board posts- unless the no multiple ID's rule doesn't apply anymore. Currently, tob reviews are readable by anyone- your gramma or ex husband or an underage person- a pay version might somewhat better ensure that "juicy details" type content is read only by members paying with a credit card, and thus indicating that they are of age. Pay reviews would provide the funding you need to maintain the review database as is, or improve it. Free or pay ones, your board is still exposed to intellectual property, copyright infringement, or cybersquatting suits filed by providers who do not want their images, working names, contact info, website links, or ad copy on tob's review board. Think "Jane Doe" suing TER. BFN, LLC AND JANE DOE v. DAVID ELMS, ET AL 2:08-CV-07285 I doubt free or pay status protects any review board from that potential. Either way, I'm sure all providers will appreciate a means of controlling their contact info in reviews. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 2) When new posts are made to the review forum then all users are notified by the "New Posts" link at the top of the page. However, if the ignore feature is used it would prevent someone from seeing the reviews from the people they are ignoring. But if a person is being ignored, why would you want to see their review? Here is one senerio. If a provider is being harassed on the board then she may choose to ignore the posts of the user harassing her, but if she is ignoring his posts then she can't tell if the user harassing her wrote a review to "get her attention". Therfore, it may become impractical for a provider to ignore a harassing user. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 I hate being an uninformed voter so I'll follow the discussion for a day or so before voting. I did have a couple questions though. Exactly what changes did you have in mind for the current review board and how do they end up costing 10k? If you made less ambitious changes how much less the cost? Would you be getting rid of the gremlins that changes a lady's age from legal to early 20's to late 20's to early 30's. Work load for moderators may be less on the front end but with instant postings of fake bad reviews and self or shilling reviews as well as the controversies they kick up wouldn't that work load be picked up on the back end. Pay to view reviews? Would review writers get in free like TER? Then you'd be setting it up for totally fake reviews to get around the charges just like TER, and why would someone write a review for a place they didn't have access to read others. ...Happy Hobbying... ...Crazy Horse... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 Speaking as someone who is relatively new to the site, I think free is the way to go if you want to attract new users. I wouldn't have signed up if I had to pay to read the reviews, and I'd probably still be trying to figure out which backpage girl to get ripped off by next. This is the internet, however, so why not put up ads or get sponsors to cover the cost? I bet some of the techie members out there (cough cough) might be willing to chip in some of their time as well. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 Free is always better than not free, but a small charge would not be unreasonable. However, some of us don't have a credit card that is sufficiently private for the hobby, so the ability to pay an annual fee (a la P411) by, say, money order, would be necessary to participate. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) She is explaining that a different review model will be free and easier to maintain, and that to maintain the review board as is, will be very expensive. Suggestions for pay review's merely point out a means of raising capital, and have other benefits, incidentally. I hate being an uninformed voter so I'll follow the discussion for a day or so before voting. I did have a couple questions though. Exactly what changes did you have in mind for the current review board and how do they end up costing 10k? If you made less ambitious changes how much less the cost? Would you be getting rid of the gremlins that changes a lady's age from legal to early 20's to late 20's to early 30's. Work load for moderators may be less on the front end but with instant postings of fake bad reviews and self or shilling reviews as well as the controversies they kick up wouldn't that work load be picked up on the back end. Pay to view reviews? Would review writers get in free like TER? Then you'd be setting it up for totally fake reviews to get around the charges just like TER, and why would someone write a review for a place they didn't have access to read others. ...Happy Hobbying... ...Crazy Horse... Edited March 27, 2012 by dawna venudae grammarific! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 If you do choose to go to a forum-based review system, I have only one request. Can you please leave the details part of the review opened so that we (providers) can be able to see what was written about us? On eccie, I, as a provider, cannot see what the gentleman wrote about me and I do not like this feature. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 27, 2012 Enabling comments on reviews is VERY helpful to the newbie trying to get some credibility. I took a business trip to Miami last year. Reached out to a dozen ASP's, only managed to connect with one. Posted a review that night, and she commented back on my review. Next thing I know, all my PM's are being answered. This was the board: http://independentgirls.com/indiboard Downside is, a handful of posters made the boards all but unusable by flaming newbies, criticizing reviews, and generally being asses. They'd get banned, then make up a new board name. The board admins responded by making it a pay site to weed out the jerks. Bummer. The hobby scene in southern Florida is awesome, by the way... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
