CARES Act

[gr8owl]

11 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

 

Extrapolating for population growth, this pandemic hasn’t been any worse than the Hong Kong flu of the late 60’s.  The major difference then was the business community continued as usual.  We didn’t have massive unemployment or the need for stimulus checks.
 

As for the Trump tax cuts, a major component was the reduction in corporate taxes.  But corporations don’t pay taxes. They collect them for the government.  Corporate taxes are built into their revenue stream and passed on to their customers.  One beauty of this for government is the compounding at each step in the manufacturing and distribution chain.  Another is that the end consumer has no idea they’re lining the government’s pockets.

IMHO. every spending bill should identify a compensating revenue stream.

Pure bullshit.  33,800 was the estimated death toll from the Hong Kong. The 1960 US population was 180 million.  It is now around 360 million, a factor of 2 increase.  So "extrapolating" the Hong Kong flu would take out 67,600 today.  WITHOUT any distancing or drastic steps.  Compared to what is conservatively estimated as exceeding 200,000 before winter from covid 19 with steps that make all the flat earthers scream bloody murder.  There is no comparison no matter how many right wing conspiracy sites keep parroting it in order to get the Orange Plague reelected. God help us if they succeed!  Stop promoting conspiracy bullshit.

If corporate taxes are simply passed through to us, why the constant drum beat of how we must reduce corporate taxes to spur the economy?  From the ceo's etc. that according to you see no benefit or detriment from changing tax rates.  The fact is OP's tax cuts benefited ONLY the wealthy.  Regardless, with record setting deficits proposed BY OP, there was/is no excuse for cutting any taxes.  Cut the spending if you want to cut taxes.

Lastly, all spending bills are already required to identify funding for new spending under Graham Rudman.  Congress simply rolls out totally bullshit "extrapolations" and ludicrous math to "justify" the spending.  Back to the Reagan days of voodoo economics.

[gr8owl]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

1) I did not vote for him.

2) I grew up in IL, 10+ adult years in Chicago, “the city the works”.  And that would make Tammany Hall blush, I might add. I remember how well a certain community organizer, with 1/2 a term in the State Senate and 1/2 a term in the US Senate, worked out.  IMHO he made even a peanut farmer look good.

The office of President is an EXECUTIVE position.  I want someone with executive experience, preferably a governor, but CEO of a large corporation works too.  The only advantage I see to legislative experience is that you know whose skeleton to rattle for results, like LBJ.

really??  How is it working right now? 

[gr8owl]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:11 AM, ilovewomen said:

If I remember correctly, Congress starts a month long vacation on August 1.  With this Congress, I don't see how anything will get passed before they recess next Friday.

Not one of them is willing to compromise for the good of the people.  They are all egotistical, narcissistic, self indulged **&&^&**(*&**.

Fire them all....Democrat, Republican, Independent, etc. Bring in new people and term limit all of them.

Sorry, I'm fired up this morning.

Bingo!!!!  But "they" have stacked the deck against doing so without constitutional amendment.  Third party or bust should be everyone's rallying call.

[Kaduk]

10 hours ago, sparkey600 said:

Um...

If you remember that's exactly how tRump got in office.

Vote for the person that knows how a government should be run, just saying.......

Be careful about the next "outside the establishment" person that comes along.

On A side note:: Election Day is just less than100 days away---> VOTE

[Bit Banger]

5 hours ago, gr8owl said:

Pure bullshit.  33,800 was the estimated death toll from the Hong Kong. The 1960 US population was 180 million.  It is now around 360 million, a factor of 2 increase.  So "extrapolating" the Hong Kong flu would take out 67,600 today.  WITHOUT any distancing or drastic steps.  Compared to what is conservatively estimated as exceeding 200,000 before winter from covid 19 with steps that make all the flat earthers scream bloody murder.  There is no comparison no matter how many right wing conspiracy sites keep parroting it in order to get the Orange Plague reelected. God help us if they succeed!  Stop promoting conspiracy bullshit.

 

Quote

The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated that in total, the virus killed one million people worldwide^[14] from its beginning in July 1968 until the outbreak faded during the winter of 1969–70.^[15] The CDC estimated that about 34,000 to 100,000 people died in the U.S; most excess deaths were in those 65 and older.^[16][17] However, fewer people died during this pandemic than in previous pandemics for several reasons:^[14]

Source? That oh so right wing Wikipedia.  The emphasis is mine.  I’ll let you do the math.

[Bit Banger]

5 hours ago, gr8owl said:

Bingo!!!!  But "they" have stacked the deck against doing so without constitutional amendment.  Third party or bust should be everyone's rallying call.

As an Independent voter, I would love for there to be a viable 3rd party.  Every time one starts to form (Reform Party) operatives from the dominate two kill it. 

[gr8owl]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

Source? That oh so right wing Wikipedia.  The emphasis is mine.  I’ll let you do the math.

Well, the accepted documented number was always 33,800, which I quoted  See the following for example

https://www.sinobiological.com/research/virus/1968-influenza-pandemic-hong-kong-flu

http://www.myfluvaccine.com/awareness/history.html

The CDC rounded up to 34,000 and use that number for their minimum  THEN the important part - the reference to "excess deaths".  They looked at so called excess death during the time period compared to average and conclude the number "could be" as high as 100,000.

They have done the same for covid

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2767980

A long read so here is key result quote:

Across the United States, there were 95 235 reported deaths officially attributed to COVID-19 from March 1 to May 30, 2020. In comparison, there were an estimated 122 300 (95% prediction interval, 116 800-127 000) excess deaths during the same period (Table). The deaths officially attributed to COVID-19 accounted for 78% of the excess all-cause deaths, leaving 22% unattributed to COVID-19. The proportion of excess deaths that were attributed to COVID-19 varied between states and increased over time (Table and Figure 1).

The CDC using same methods as they did in revising the Hong Kong numbers would add 128% to the documented numbers for covid.  Keep in mind covid is far, far from over but the best estimates right now are in the 200,000 to 250,000 range by year end.  Which would mean 456,000 to 570,000 using the CDC excess death model.

So take your pick and compare 34,000 to 200,000 OR compare 100,000 to 570,000.  Either way, there is no valid comparison between the two that remotely equates their impact, spread or death rate.  This is the part that pisses me off most ......... trying to justify full opening or justify opinion that  nothing should have been closed, or Democratic hoax, etc. by FALSELY minimizing the seriousness of the current disease.  That is the right wing conspiracy flat earth stuff that is most vexing.  Again, I do not care what any intelligent person concludes based upon the facts, but yep, still a stickler that it be actual facts and that facts are apples to apples not apples to kumquats.

And Wiki is as far right, center, far left etc. as the amateur writer or group producing the topic.  They are certainly no more objective that MSNBC, CNN, FOX, Brietbart, etc.

[JRWolfe]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:30 AM, fork said:

Depends who wins the political battle.

 

• Trump's main priority is making sure there's no money for testing, so he can pretend COVID isn't happening.

              Where did you hear that ?? Its the total opposite of what he says on C-span.

[JRWolfe]

On 7/25/2020 at 6:31 PM, Bit Banger said:

Yes, but did they figure out how they were going to pay for it?  Sell more bonds to China, or steal from Social Security.

    Democrats solution is to increase taxes .

[JRWolfe]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:39 PM, sparkey600 said:

 

Be careful about the next "outside the establishment" person that comes along.

        Pelois & Company will make it impossible to let an outsider make the changes this country needs. (Which is more obvious on C-Span than CNN and MSNBC ).

I'm an independent voter and did NOT vote for Clinton or Trump . 

Also,I've turned down any and all monetary assistance during this coronavirus .

Edited July 27, 2020 by JRWolfe
mote info

[gr8owl]

1 hour ago, JRWolfe said:

              Where did you hear that ?? Its the total opposite of what he says on C-span.

And you have not learned not to believe anything the man says?  Or at least wait two or three days until he flops.

But it was reported everywhere.  Here is one outlet

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2020/07/18/donald-trump-administration-funding-testing-cdc

but pick whichever outlet you would prefer from here

googly

 

[fork]

1 hour ago, JRWolfe said:

              Where did you hear that ?? Its the total opposite of what he says on C-span.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2020/07/18/white-house-testing-budget-cdc-coronavirus/

Plus, endless tweets and verbal comments from Trump indicating that there is too much testing.

 

He seems to be joking, right? So reporters asked him if he was. No, he wasnt.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/politics/donald-trump-testing-slow-down-response/index.html

[fork]

35 minutes ago, gr8owl said:

And you have not learned not to believe anything the man says?  Or at least wait two or three days until he flops.

 

He will often contradict himself within the same paragraph. No need to wait three days!

Go back and listen to Trump interviews from 10 or 20 years ago, then listen to him today. There's no doubt he is in steep cognitive decline. He used to actually be sharp and able to make a point, but that is mostly gone now.

[JRWolfe]

15 hours ago, gr8owl said:

 

  Here is one outlet

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2020/07/18/donald-trump-administration-funding-testing-cdc

but pick whichever outlet you would prefer from here

googly

 

  I prefer C-Span.  Look at the date on the article. It also reads like the papers Soros owns.

[JRWolfe]

15 hours ago, fork said:

 

Go back and listen to Trump interviews from 10 or 20 years ago, then listen to him today. There's no doubt he is in steep cognitive decline. He used to actually be sharp and able to make a point, but that is mostly gone now.

   He is not the only one that has problems with teleprompters. Ever watch a Pelosi interview over all the time she's been in office ? (example )

You are so obviously anti-GOP. Nice thing about being an independent, we don't blindly follow a party line. My ballot has always had a mix of partys on it.

Once again..i did not vote for Clinton or Trump.

[JRWolfe]

Oh,have no reason to vote for Biden or  Trump this year. But not for the reasons you have.

[Kaduk]

21 minutes ago, JRWolfe said:

 Nice thing about being an independent, we don't blindly follow a party line.

Once again..i did not vote for Clinton or Trump.

As an Independent:: I see--- so that would make you a Bernard Sanders supporter.

[fork]

1 hour ago, JRWolfe said:

Once again..i did not vote for Clinton or Trump.

Why do you seem to be so proud of throwing away your vote? 

Biden or Trump, one of those two will be the next President. Sure, you can vote for some third party, or write in someone. But there's zero point. All you're doing is taking yourself out of the process.

It might make you feel morally superior and pure, but it's a tree falling in the woods. No one cares.

[Seeker5280]

In my opinion, anyone who does not exercise their right and responsibility to vote is a fool!
Period!

[Strange_Ice]

15 minutes ago, Seeker5280 said:

In my opinion, anyone who does not exercise their right and responsibility to vote is a fool!
Period!

I will vote for the first person that does NOT lie or just SAY things the people want to hear without any REAL intentions of sticking to what they say AND does not allow smear campaigns against who ever they are running against... I won't vote for pathetic pos's that just lie and do what they can to make others look bad to win votes

[Bit Banger]

There’s a bumper sticker out:

2020 - Any functioning adult

So far I have not seen one propose.

[JRWolfe]

3 hours ago, Kaduk said:

As an Independent:: I see--- so that would make you a Bernard Sanders supporter.

   Oh hell NO !   Sanders is the worst .  First saw him praise Castro nearly 20 years ago ! His analogy's are the worst. Mindless minions wanted him in.

Blech...glad he is out of the running.

[JRWolfe]

1 hour ago, Strange_Ice said:

I will vote for the first person that does NOT lie or just SAY things the people want to hear without any REAL intentions of sticking to what they say AND does not allow smear campaigns against who ever they are running against... I won't vote for pathetic pos's that just lie and do what they can to make others look bad to win votes

   Watching the campaign commercials,that definitely leaves the Democrats out,although there are two of them not running a smear campaign and actually have a good record,so voting for them.

VERY very few incumbents worth voting for .    Did notice that one candidate who spent 51 years in government is blaming someone in their 4th year ,for things they not only never fixed..but actually started.  Yes,watching C-Span is a good thing.

Not throwing my vote away...just being careful with it .

[Kaduk]

5 hours ago, JRWolfe said:

 Yes,watching C-Span is a good thing.

 

[Bit Banger]

I find it hilarious that folks try to blame Pres. Trump for the massive unemployment and disastrous economy.  When in truth it was local governments who caused the massive layoffs with their lockdown orders.  Could Pres. Trump have handled the Covid crisis better? Of course, everybody could have. But he did not order the lockdowns, nor did he have the authority to do so.

In a similar vein I cannot fault him for the riots in many major cities. It’s been local governments who have failed to quell these insurrections.  He has, imho rightfully, sent Federal officers to protect Federal property when local officials failed to provide adequate protection. I might add that it is also local officials who control LE interactions with residents.  It’s not Federal officers creating the problems BLM wants addressed.
 

I’m not a fan of Pres. Trump, but he has recognized, consciously or not, the Constitutional limitations imposed on him in dealing with these events. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Bit Banger

[Kaduk]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bit Banger said:

 When in truth it was local governments who caused the massive layoffs with their lockdown orders. 

This is what happens when a states governors locks down to flatten the curve compared to the rest of the U.S.

New York-Newark,Y-NJ-CT- PA may now continue with the proper phase approach to re-openings.

Case numbers are surging throughout most of the United States, including in many states that were among the first to reopen. Because the number of people hospitalized and the percentage of people testing positive is also rising in many of those places, the case spike cannot be solely explained by increased testing.

July 29, 2020 nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases

These states have had the highest growth in newly reported deaths over the last 14 days. Deaths tend to rise a few weeks after a rise in infections, as there is typically a delay between when people are infected, when they die and when deaths are reported. Some deaths reported in the last two weeks may have occurred much earlier because of these delays.

In late February, there were just a few dozen known cases in the United States, most of them linked to travel. But by summer, the virus had torn through every state, infecting more people than the combined populations of Nebraska, Vermont and Montana. The national death toll exceeded the population of Syracuse, N.Y. And after weeks of progress, reports of new cases reached record levels in late June and early July.\

Absolutely this is the white house's Virus, Even his own Senior Advisor warned him in a memo on January 29th that 'half a million American souls' could die of coronavirus, and he was displeased his adviser put it in writing.

1. businessinsider.com/trump-peter-navarro-january-memo-coronavirus-deaths-2020-4
2. axios.com/exclusive-navarro-deaths-coronavirus-memos-january-

The state of play: By late February, Navarro was even more alarmed, and he warned his colleagues, in another memo, that up to 2 million Americans could die of the virus.

• Navarro's grim estimates are set out in two memos — one dated Jan. 29 and addressed to the National Security Council, the other dated Feb. 23 and addressed to the president. The NSC circulated both memos around the White House and multiple agencies.
• In the first memo, which the New York Times was first to report on, Navarro makes his case for "an immediate travel ban on China."
• The second lays the groundwork for supplemental requests from Congress, with the warning: "This is NOT a time for penny-pinching or horse trading on the Hill."
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjJydZO99A
• Washington post writes that in January US Intelligence warns of the likely Pandemic.
  • washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOubhy4Ss3c

• Timeline: out of step with the CDC during coronavirus response

  • March 2, 2020 cnn.com/interactive/2020/03/politics/coronavirus-trump-cdc-timeline/

· https://youtu.be/vEzfHfLaLG4

Gov Jay Inslee WA.

New hospitalizations in King County over time. (Seattle – King County Public Health Chart)

June 28, 2020 geekwire.com/2020/covid-19-cases-soar-washington-state-inslee-

_________________________

On 7/28/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bit Banger said:

in a similar vein I cannot fault him for the riots in many major cities. It’s been local governments who have failed to quell these insurrections.  He has, imho rightfully, sent Federal officers to protect Federal property when local officials failed to provide adequate protection. I might add that it is also local officials who control LE interactions with residents.  It’s not Federal officers creating the problems BLM wants addressed.

 

• Analysts Say Armed Groups At Protests Raise Specter Of A 'Street War'
  • npr.org/2020/07/30/896770081/analysts-say-armed-groups-at-protests-raise-specter-of-a-street-war

________________________

On 7/28/2020 at 10:20 PM, Bit Banger said:

’m not a fan of Pres. Trump, but he has recognized, consciously or not, the Constitutional limitations imposed on him in dealing with these events. 

· Məˈdʒɔr Leader Mitch and his minions have just as much culpability in the matter

_________________________________

As the Covid-19 pandemic rages on, Trump keeps lying that the per capita death toll in the U.S. is among the lowest in the world. The opposite is true.

July 16 2020, theintercept.com/2020/07/16/trump-keeps-bragging-americas-covid-19-death-rate-among-worlds-worst/

 

[gr8owl]

9 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

I find it hilarious that folks try to blame Pres. Trump for the massive unemployment and disastrous economy.  When in truth it was local governments who caused the massive layoffs with their lockdown orders.  Could Pres. Trump have handled the Covid crisis better? Of course, everybody could have. But he did not order the lockdowns, nor did he have the authority to do so.

In a similar vein I cannot fault him for the riots in many major cities. It’s been local governments who have failed to quell these insurrections.  He has, imho rightfully, sent Federal officers to protect Federal property when local officials failed to provide adequate protection. I might add that it is also local officials who control LE interactions with residents.  It’s not Federal officers creating the problems BLM wants addressed.
 

I’m not a fan of Pres. Trump, but he has recognized, consciously or not, the Constitutional limitations imposed on him in dealing with these events. 

It is the covid epidemic that has hobbled the economy.  It is the total and gross and continuing mismanagement of the response from the Orange Plague and the constant drum beat of the far right wing media that props his sorry ass up that have caused the virus to continue to rage largely out of control, especially in the republican governor states that listened to his stupidity to open without listening to health and science experts.  Therefore, the current economy IS HIS FAULT.  You and his other supporters were quick to brag about his efforts in the economy and take credit for it before when the reality was the longest expansion of the economy in history was started by Obama out of the Bush melt down.  The economy Trump took credit for had NOTHING to do with him.  That is his - and his supporters -standard m.o. : take total credit for anything good and deny any responsibility for anything bad.

Actually he first declared that he had ABSOLUTE authority to tell states and governors what to do regarding covid and that he would.  Then a more intelligent advisor - Graham or McConnel come to mind - pulled him aside and informed him he would then be in line for total blame.  He then COMPLETELY changed course and said it was all up to the governors.  Their problem to fight each other over masks, testing, ventilators, etc.  So then it is their fault while he of course can still beat the drums for reopening, hoax etc..  And last night declare that several states are "clear" of covid.  Bald faced lie number 18 thousand and something!

There is no fucking insurrection contrary to your favorite right wing media sites.  There are wide spread protests and expression of free speech and right to bring grievances to the government.  Sprinkled into that are a relative few being destructive or violent.  And local police taking a hands off in large part to falsely portray it as out of control.  His use of federal border agents and atf etc. to invade cities is strictly to incite the riots he wants to depict so he can spout the lame "law and order" crap that translates into "we are fine with continuing racist bullshit".  Exact same thing it meant in the '50's - the glory days he wants to return to.  He wants desperately to be a tin pot dictator with pure public adoration.

Now about disease being caused by demon possession and the use of alien dna claims promoted by his new darling doctor he tweeted about and now has doubled down on.  Just out of pure morbid curiosity - how you gonna spin that one?  And how is that rape lawsuit with corroborating witnesses coming along?  Oh that's right ..... the media that is supposedly out to get him have completely failed to cover it.  I am sure there is a good excuse for that as well, and for his wishing Epstein's procurer well.  

I know.  Total deaf ears, waste of breath.  Greatest president ever!  Woohoo!!

 

[JRWolfe]

13 hours ago, Kaduk said:

 

   Obviously,he doesn't watch C-Span 

[JRWolfe]

10 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

I find it hilarious that folks try to blame Pres. Trump for the massive unemployment and disastrous economy.  .  Could Pres. Trump have handled the Covid crisis better? Of course, everybody could have. But he did not order the lockdowns, nor did he have the authority to do so.

In a similar vein I cannot fault him for the riots in many major cities. It’s been local governments who have failed to quell these insurrections.  He has, imho rightfully, sent Federal officers to protect Federal property when local officials failed to provide adequate protection. I might add that it is also local officials who control LE interactions with residents.  It’s not Federal officers creating the problems BLM wants addressed.
 

I’m not a fan of Pres. Trump, but he has recognized, consciously or not, the Constitutional limitations imposed on him in dealing with these events. 

       Its ridiculous that ANY politician in ANY country would get blamed for the Covid-19 virus. This is a world wide pandemic. Every country is infected.   That said..how could it have been handled better ?  or how can it be handled worse ?

Oh,how come no one rioted when unarmed Gilbert Collar ,Dillon Taylor and Justine Damond were killed by cops ?

[Kaduk]

20 hours ago, JRWolfe said:

Yes,watching C-Span is a good thing.

 

15 hours ago, Kaduk said:

1 hour ago, JRWolfe said:

   Obviously, he doesn't watch C-Span 

 

 

As Hasan stated in the Video he is not one of the 9 viewers of C-Span.