A history lesson for the newbies and a reminder for the rest of us...

[Crazy Horse]

Let's see it was 8 or 9 years ago that this incident took place and it was such a big deal at the time I'm sure the old timers will remember it. I remember the incident well but forget 2 of the names; can any old timers help me out.

There was a hobbyist that wrote a review. A provider who was not the one he saw read the review and misinterpreted something he said. Those are the 2 names I don't remember. Her take on the whole thing was no means no, although that's not what he wrote in the review, so he must be a [snip}. She started calling him that over on Sowet and this being a small community it soon moved over here. It wasn't long before some of the ladies started calling for his balls. They even stampeded Gina into revoking his P411 membership.

So what was the true story? The provider that he actually saw, Jordan Miller, I remember her name because I saw her a couple of times, at the time only advertised on BP she didn't even know about TOB until she started getting dozens of calls asking her if she had indeed been [snip}. So she goes to the trouble of joining TOB to tell us all that indeed she HAD NOT been [snip}.

So a guy's reputation get's trashed by a third party provider out to stir up trouble. Ladies...PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE understand we know how difficult your job is. We know that you have to constantly deal with scammers and rip offs and just straight out scum bags. I however am not willing to slip a noose around someone's neck on the unsubstantiated word of any single individual. I'll also not stand by while people go around saying

the scumbag deserves what he gets or let a "the ends justify the means" argument slip by.

If you'd like, use this incident to weigh the positions of those in the last contentious thread and understand why some of us take a more cautious stance in those kind of cases.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited March 22, 2015 by boink36
Forbidden topics removed.

[pitbull]

Guilty until proven innocent often prevails in many areas of life.

[Crazy Horse]

Guilty until proven innocent often prevails in many areas of life.

And that makes it right??? When did we in this country lose our moral compass. Torture is OK now as is guilty until proven innocent. I'm glad I'm at the end of this lifetime because the direction our civilization is headed in is pathetic. No need to read about the fall of the Roman Empire when you can watch it play out today in real time.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Bit Banger]

... I'm glad I'm at the end of this lifetime because the direction our civilization is headed in is pathetic. No need to read about the fall of the Roman Empire when you can watch it play out today in real time.

...

And all we can really do is sit here and cry as we listen to the chorus of Nero's fiddles in DC.

[loudiesel-6428]

And all we can really do is sit here and cry as we listen to the chorus of Nero's fiddles in DC.

And that makes it right??? When did we in this country lose our moral compass. Torture is OK now as is guilty until proven innocent. I'm glad I'm at the end of this lifetime because the direction our civilization is headed in is pathetic. No need to read about the fall of the Roman Empire when you can watch it play out today in real time.

Indeed is true and we are a photocopy of the roman empire to the T .... even the falling part of it....

[Crazy Horse]

[snip] I'll chance another warning or even infraction. I view it as just another example of how far we've already fallen when adult Americans get censored by a foreigner(a Canadian no less) when trying to have a serious discussion. Although I can see in the way Gina allowed herself to get stampeded into revoking the guy's P411 membership in how by not allowing a certain word she would not have to deal with a similar situation ever again.

As for the OP I left something out. It was the feeling of shame I felt for standing by and not saying anything while everyone else was screaming to hang this guy by his balls. It's not really defending someone to ask "where's the proof" but that is what would have been thrown in my face "how could you defend a [snip]."

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited March 22, 2015 by Kaduk
Forbidden topic...

[MAG]

Let's see it was 8 or 9 years ago that this incident took place and it was such a big deal at the time I'm sure the old timers will remember it. I remember the incident well but forget 2 of the names; can any old timers help me out.

There was a hobbyist that wrote a review. A provider who was not the one he saw read the review and misinterpreted something he said. Those are the 2 names I don't remember. Her take on the whole thing was no means no, although that's not what he wrote in the review, so he must be a [snip}. She started calling him that over on Sowet and this being a small community it soon moved over here. It wasn't long before some of the ladies started calling for his balls. They even stampeded Gina into revoking his P411 membership.

So what was the true story? The provider that he actually saw, Jordan Miller, I remember her name because I saw her a couple of times, at the time only advertised on BP she didn't even know about TOB until she started getting dozens of calls asking her if she had indeed been [snip}. So she goes to the trouble of joining TOB to tell us all that indeed she HAD NOT been [snip}.

So a guy's reputation get's trashed by a third party provider out to stir up trouble. Ladies...PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE understand we know how difficult your job is. We know that you have to constantly deal with scammers and rip offs and just straight out scum bags. I however am not willing to slip a noose around someone's neck on the unsubstantiated word of any single individual. I'll also not stand by while people go around saying

the scumbag deserves what he gets or let a "the ends justify the means" argument slip by.

If you'd like, use this incident to weigh the positions of those in the last contentious thread and understand why some of us take a more cautious stance in those kind of cases.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

I remember this situation. I also remember another one, even longer ago, when a very active provider outed a guy on this board. It wasn't just a phone number, it was name & address as I recall.

This provider was known as (and admitted to being ) bipolar. The board at the time was divided in sentiment. The hookers mostly sided with her because of the sob story she told. Sound familiar?

Hookers here complain about not having "recourse", while in the same breath claim that outing posts are probably intended as a "fair warning to others". Can't have it both ways. Are the outings warnings, or revenge?

Who knows, and who cares. When an outing is excused as an appropriate reaction to a perceived slight, without hearing the other side of the story, it's the clients who lose recourse. That's why I came out strongly yesterday, and will continue to do so on this subject.

And my advice to those who whine about not having recourse: if the business isn't working for you, there are other careers.

[The Oxymoron]

I don't remember the incident being discussed, not even vaguely. I also don't see an old account for a Jordan Miller, to look at the notes.

I'd be interested in taking a look at what happened if you could come up with something that would allow me to bring up the associated accounts, if for nothing other than shits and giggles.

BTW, usually the giggles are because the person making the claims has no clue what really happened.

[Lucy Kitten]

I remember this situation. I also remember another one, even longer ago, when a very active provider outed a guy on this board. It wasn't just a phone number, it was name & address as I recall.

This provider was known as (and admitted to being ) bipolar. The board at the time was divided in sentiment. The hookers mostly sided with her because of the sob story she told. Sound familiar?

Hookers here complain about not having "recourse", while in the same breath claim that outing posts are probably intended as a "fair warning to others". Can't have it both ways. Are the outings warnings, or revenge?

Who knows, and who cares. When an outing is excused as an appropriate reaction to a perceived slight, without hearing the other side of the story, it's the clients who lose recourse. That's why I came out strongly yesterday, and will continue to do so on this subject.

And my advice to those who whine about not having recourse: if the business isn't working for you, there are other careers.

There are other hobbies to enjoy as well

[MAG]

I don't remember the incident being discussed, not even vaguely. I also don't see an old account for a Jordan Miller, to look at the notes.

I'd be interested in taking a look at what happened if you could come up with something that would allow me to bring up the associated accounts, if for nothing other than shits and giggles.

BTW, usually the giggles are because the person making the claims has no clue what really happened.

My memory of the older incident is actually my clearer memory. I'll let CH speak to the other one.

I'll PM the details that I remember of the older one.

[2small]

I know of 3 ladies who are fighting with each other. I have been a client of all 3. they are all nice ladies in there own right but it does scare me that if I say or do the wrong thing with one of them I could be all over the TOB newscast. even though I miss all three of them I choose not to see any of them for fear of repercussions.

I remember the lady that was being talked about in the one post who outed that guy. I was never with her but did talk to her on the phone.

also as the one lady just said, there are more than one hobby to enjoy, I say to her there are more than one job for women in Denver.

[Lucy Kitten]

I know of 3 ladies who are fighting with each other. I have been a client of all 3. they are all nice ladies in there own right but it does scare me that if I say or do the wrong thing with one of them I could be all over the TOB newscast. even though I miss all three of them I choose not to see any of them for fear of repercussions.

I remember the lady that was being talked about in the one post who outed that guy. I was never with her but did talk to her on the phone.

also as the one lady just said, there are more than one hobby to enjoy, I say to her there are more than one job for women in Denver.

Everyone sticks their nose in the drama and rather than out those who cause all the problems we all choose to blame the majority. Why pick a few bad apples when you can burn a whole orchard? It's easier to just continue to protect them and make life harder for all other ladies who have chosen this job. Sure I could get another job and a lot of you could stop making the problem worse Why should I quit because you guys can't figure out a way to hold the problem makers responsible??

[Lucy Kitten]

My memory of the older incident is actually my clearer memory. I'll let CH speak to the other one.

I'll PM the details that I remember of the older one.

If you remember some of the specifics why don't you just share them with all of us? Stop the perpetuation of gossip.

[2small]

My way of holding them responsible is not seeing them anymore even though they were all excellent providers. That covers my butt and I don't run afoul of the ladies, the moderators or the white knights or radical hookers. the best way to find a lady is like CH said. find one that you are comfortable with her screening and see her. then you shouldn't have a problem.

[The Oxymoron]

If you remember some of the specifics why don't you just share them with all of us? Stop the perpetuation of gossip.

I'm pretty sure that "sharing the specifics" is what perpetuates gossip..... lol

[MAG]

If you remember some of the specifics why don't you just share them with all of us? Stop the perpetuation of gossip.

Not on the board. Didn't you learn anything from yesterday?

[MAG]

....you guys can't figure out a way to hold the problem makers responsible??

Actually, that's what we were doing yesterday. The problem maker was a hooker, and we called her out on it.

[MAG]

I'm pretty sure that "sharing the specifics" is what perpetuates gossip..... lol

And it's what also earn infractions. But my guess is, Lucy already knew that.

[Crazy Horse]

I don't remember the incident being discussed, not even vaguely. I also don't see an old account for a Jordan Miller, to look at the notes.

I'd be interested in taking a look at what happened if you could come up with something that would allow me to bring up the associated accounts, if for nothing other than shits and giggles.

BTW, usually the giggles are because the person making the claims has no clue what really happened.

My reviews of her still exist as well as those others wrote. Which is strange considering that everything else is now gone. When people ask to have their accounts and posts deleted would there be any record left to check. I don't believe she was ever a member of P411 and when she finished school I wouldn't be surprised that she asked for all that to be deleted.

The incident itself would have happened the spring or early summer just before this current incarnation of TOB. I don't suppose there's any way to access those older TOB files. So much for those warnings we always hear about being careful with what you post to the internet because it'll be there forever.

Now to a more serious topic which I would have preferred to have done by sending you a PM except that there are probably people out there saying to themselves "Well if Gina doesn't remember an incident like that than CH must be blowing smoke out his a--."

Have you always had this problem with your long term memory because if it's happened in the last decade or so it could indicate a developing neurological problem. If it's always been so don't worry as different people remember things differently both short and long term.

It's not just this incident which should have stood out like a sore thumb in your memory there's something else in our history that you forgot that I don't see how you could have. Remember back when you first started P411 and I was playing my usual role of being TOB's devil advocate and started picking apart all it's weaknesses when you over reacted and revoked my lifetime membership you sent me the vilest most insulting and threating email that I've ever received as a hobbyist(and that includes the death threat from a jealous boyfriend). So after years of snipping at you and P411 the way we finally made piece was after I had to pull up that old email and resend it to you. It was only after resending it that you finally apologized and things have been pretty much hunky dory between us since. I thought it strange at the time that I had to remind you of what you did since you wrote the thing and at one point I had even posted it to one of the old TOB boards.

I consider that all to be water under the bridge between you and me and of little interest to any but the oldest of TOB old timers. It's just that this current memory loss has me kind of worried about someone I've always considered a friend.

Oh I don't know...I consider myself to be something of an historian and trivia contest buff so maybe my brain is just hardwired to remember the past. Which is in it's way is a good thing because I won't have to repeat it.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[pitbull]

And that makes it right??? When did we in this country lose our moral compass. Torture is OK now as is guilty until proven innocent. I'm glad I'm at the end of this lifetime because the direction our civilization is headed in is pathetic. No need to read about the fall of the Roman Empire when you can watch it play out today in real time.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Uh, Crazy Horse, I never said it was "right." I only said that it "often prevails." Big difference between "right" and "often prevails." Life is not fair. It should be, but it's not.

[gr8owl]

Burning questions I would like to know:

Is there ANY circumstance - up to and including felonies against a provider - that so much as a phone number is fair game to be released to ANY forum or board, fully public or not? In your humble but all knowing and protective opinion. And to quote CH - anyone can answer.

Since you chose to insinuate you have been here forever in your implication that I probably did not know what you were talking about and in stating that you had recollection of an incident here OLDER than 8 to 9 years ago ....... but your sign up date is late 2012 (after mine) just how many names have you had here? And they were?

[Lucy Kitten]

Not on the board. Didn't you learn anything from yesterday?

Until anyone can actually find the right forum or guys have the courage to write reviews for the trouble causing ladies it's all gossip. The let me whisper in your ear so we both have the same story is nothing but confirming gossip.

If hackles weren't up because of particular providers what happened yesterday would not have been the atomic bomb that it was perceived to be.

Gossip is anything short of calling people out, giving the chance to defend themselves and asking them straight up whether or not things are true. Until that happens nothing will change and the ladies as a whole will be held responsible.

[MAG]

Burning questions I would like to know:

Is there ANY circumstance - up to and including felonies against a provider - that so much as a phone number is fair game to be released to ANY forum or board, fully public or not? In your humble but all knowing and protective opinion. And to quote CH - anyone can answer.

Since you chose to insinuate you have been here forever in your implication that I probably did not know what you were talking about and in stating that you had recollection of an incident here OLDER than 8 to 9 years ago ....... but your sign up date is late 2012 (after mine) just how many names have you had here? And they were?

Felonies against a provider are already reported, by the mainstream media, when charges are filed. Otherwise, the escorts only board should be used.

Have you ever heard of lurking? I observed this board for years before I ever signed up. Why would you assume I had multiple names? See, it's these types of assumptions that lead to trouble. You assumed the author of that other thread was being entirely truthful. Think for yourself once in a while - look past the "evidence" you want to see, or can only see in 3 seconds of viewing.

When a john creates a thread here claiming he got ripped off, including a link to the BP ad, do you assume he's telling the truth? I sure hope not. I don't understand why those posts are allowed to remain here, either, but they are. Just like escorts have a board they can use for NCNS and other problem clients, we have a similar board - it's called a review board.

Now it's my turn to ask you - is there any circumstance where a provider's personal information is fair game to be released in public? Your answer should prove revealing.....

[Lucy Kitten]

Burning questions I would like to know:

Is there ANY circumstance - up to and including felonies against a provider - that so much as a phone number is fair game to be released to ANY forum or board, fully public or not? In your humble but all knowing and protective opinion. And to quote CH - anyone can answer.

Since you chose to insinuate you have been here forever in your implication that I probably did not know what you were talking about and in stating that you had recollection of an incident here OLDER than 8 to 9 years ago ....... but your sign up date is late 2012 (after mine) just how many names have you had here? And they were?

That question is way to thought provoking for this group. I would hope that someone does actually answer because I have asked and am curious myself. It's tricky because the answer to that question reveals how much more important protecting some lousy client's info is than a girl's safety and her ability to reach out to others.

av8r will never disclose who he is, he will just insist that he/she? has been around for a long time and that we should believe what they say because why not. He/she will continue to perpetuate BS under the guise that they are some well informed long term member with oh so much knowledge. Maybe he/she is maybe they aren't but we'll never know and that's just how they want it. Don't expect any answers, I have tried. Just let the fool who hides behind the veil of anonymity continue to believe that he's not contributing to gossip or many of the other frustrations around here.

[MAG]

That question is way to thought provoking for this group. I would hope that someone does actually answer because I have asked and am curious myself. It's tricky because the answer to that question reveals how much more important protecting some lousy client's info is than a girl's safety and her ability to reach out to others.

av8r will never disclose who he is, he will just insist that he/she? has been around for a long time and that we should believe what they say because why not. He/she will continue to perpetuate BS under the guise that they are some well informed long term member with oh so much knowledge. Maybe he/she is maybe they aren't but we'll never know and that's just how they want it. Don't expect any answers, I have tried. Just let the fool who hides behind the veil of anonymity continue to believe that he's not contributing to gossip or many of the other frustrations around here.

These paragraphs are so full of hypocrisy, I wouldn't know where to start.

By the way, did you miss the fact that I actually answered? Or did you conveniently ignore that?

[gr8owl]

Felonies against a provider are already reported, by the mainstream media, you have got to be kiddingwhen charges are filed. Otherwise, the escorts only board should be used. so on escort only board outing is fair game?

Have you ever heard of lurking? I observed this board for years before I ever signed up. Why would you assume I had multiple names? See, it's these types of assumptions that lead to trouble. i assumed nothing. i asked how many handles you had - one is a possible answer. You assumed the author of that other thread was being entirely truthful. again i assumed no such thing, simply that "bat shit crazy" would release more than a phone number Think for yourself once in a while - look past the "evidence" you want to see, or can only see in 3 seconds of viewing. Now I have you talking to yourself. Poor av8r.

When a john creates a thread here claiming he got ripped off, including a link to the BP ad, do you assume he's telling the truth? I sure hope not. I don't understand why those posts are allowed to remain here, either, but they are. Just like escorts have a board they can use for NCNS and other problem clients, we have a similar board - it's called a review board.

Now it's my turn to ask you - is there any circumstance where a provider's personal information is fair game to be released in public? Your answer should prove revealing.....

As usual you wish to compare apples to oranges. What possible good would it do to reveal a provider's real info - other than to maliciously harm her? Simply referencing her by her board handle/advertising name is sufficient information for clients to know who is being referred to and how to avoid - just don't call her!! I suppose if the "client" of yesterday's brew-ha-ha were a member of TOB calling him out by handle would work. But only if he identified himself as such every time he called a lady. The vast majority of clients don't know this board exists. So, the two simply cannot be compared in terms of effective means to warn others about truly bad actors. So no, my answer doesn't reveal much except that I understand the unequal footing that is built into the game. For the record - short answer - if she is actively participating in committing felonies against her clients, hell yes fair game to out her personal info, but largely useless.

Now back to your taking time to read. First post of mine yesterday - list of felony or nefarious reasons to try to dupe a provider out of her location. Try to imagine, I know it will be hard, that one of those was the case? Just for sake of argument. How should it have been handled?

[MAG]

How many times do I have to say it? You can keep saying "you've got to be kidding" if you want, if that makes you feel better.

If a client commits a felony against a provider, she should call the authorities. If he NCNS on her, she should blacklist his ass on the escorts only board, or give him the opportunity to make good if she believes he was not just being a douche. Outing him on a board that can be seen by anyone is unacceptable.

You said yesterday that outing was inappropriate, or words to that effect. Have you changed that position? Outing of personal information is never ok, whether by john or by hooker, so we disagree on that point, I guess.

[The Oxymoron]

CH, as you might assume, I've dealt with tens of thousands of people (and their problems) in this hobby over the last almost 20 years. And I've probably sent more than a few nasty emails during those years, most of which were/are barely memorable, along with the people I sent them to.

That I don't specifically remember a single, probably fairly insignificant, incident that happened many years ago is probably not cause for alarm. Quite honestly, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast!

However, I would be interested in taking a look at the notes on this incident, since you claim to have insider knowledge on what happened with the client's P411 account and why, and have felt that posting your in depth knowledge publicly was called for. I'm just curious, because normally that wouldn't be information you (or anyone else) would be privy to. I'd like to take a look at the account to see if I can figure out why I brought you into my decision making process.

Edited March 22, 2015 by The Oxymoron

[The Oxymoron]

So what was the true story? The provider that he actually saw, Jordan Miller... she didn't even know about TOB until she started getting dozens of calls asking her if she had indeed been [snip}. So she goes to the trouble of joining TOB to tell us all that indeed she HAD NOT been [snip}.

Now, I'm not sure if this is the incident that CH is talking about, but here is a thread in which Jordan Miller says the exact opposite of what CH seems to recall.

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=51686&postcount=12

Many (if not all) of her posts on TOB can be found by advanced searching "jordan miller" on the Colorado Archive board.

[Milos Vesely]

Tswhy, I deal with agencies only. Pimp hand puts a stop this BS straight away.