P411 Status Can Be Bad (a joke)

[The Oxymoron]

I would like to hear more about P411 members, board members, and other hobbyists with a reputation as a reviewer, holding that status and a possible bad review over various providers to get more for less out of a session.

It's rare that a client will out and out say "you will do x or I'm going to get a bad review".... however, the number of clients who try to use their board persona as proof of their popularity, or influence in the community, is quite high amongst hobbyists.

There is a good percentage that are certainly trying to gain favors, and can be quite put out when they discover that they won't get any. This is one of the many reasons that some providers prefer not to see "hobbyists", because some of them definitely do tend to expect more than the average client and will post a bad review when they don't feel they were treated as they thought the deserved.

Usually these "hobbyists" are nice enough guys, and they probably don't even realize how they come off to the providers. However, there is no question that once someone starts off with "I'm so and so from TOB", a provider knows that she is going to be expected to be on her very best behavior, and then some.... and if she doesn't do back flips the chance of getting a bad review is quite good.

[Guest Likenthrope]

That's gotta be irritating to know your performance is being put under a microscope and then broadcast over the internet for anyone's viewing pleasure.

[worksmartnothard]

She's free to refuse service to anyone, for any reason.

That being said, there's a BIG difference. She comes off as judgmental. She's a hooker, advertising on a hooker site, passing judgment on a site that caters to hookers & johns.

When a hobbyist refuses to see an unreviewed escort, it's often because there is no evidence that she is real, or because there IS evidence that she's fake. THIS hooker excludes obviously real clients based on some sort of bias she has about P411. The "difference" is obvious.

I suspect she has some other reason for shying away from P411, and she's using this "pervert" excuse to hide that reason.

Her use of pervert seems a tad harsh and I do agree with that. I also agree with her choice not to see whomever she does not want to see regardless if they are from here or anywhere else. And her only reason could be that she did see someone from here and had a very bad experience and does not wish to deal anymore.

Her biggest mistake was voicing it. She could of had the same result had she simply said, I am not available, but thank you for your interest.

It is not a surprise that there are many escorts who prefer not to be in the company of a hobbyist and whenever it is mentioned even close to this board, it rankles the boys. Escorts have choices and can see whomever they wish for whatever reason. If its a hobbyist or a P411 member today, it might be an overweight guy tomorrow or a guy of color.

Call the lady a bigot, call her whatever you wish. It is her body, her choice. Again, there are ways to be as choosy as one wishes and not hurt the delicate feelings of those she won't see.

[worksmartnothard]

What is the definition of a hobbyist, if not "a john who calls hookers"?

Every time a hooker's phone rings, it's a hobbyist, right?

And by the way, why do you accusing people of being "butt hurt" every time they express an opinion?

Believe me there is a huge difference. I believe there is ample evidence right here on TOB, do a search. So no, not every time a hookers phone rings or she gets an email is it a hobbyist.

[Guest Mr.Bubble]

It's rare that a client will out and out say "you will do x or I'm going to get a bad review".... however, the number of clients who try to use their board persona as proof of their popularity, or influence in the community, is quite high amongst hobbyists.

There is a good percentage that are certainly trying to gain favors, and can be quite put out when they discover that they won't get any. This is one of the many reasons that some providers prefer not to see "hobbyists", because some of them definitely do tend to expect more than the average client and will post a bad review when they don't feel they were treated as they thought the deserved.

Usually these "hobbyists" are nice enough guys, and they probably don't even realize how they come off to the providers. However, there is no question that once someone starts off with "I'm so and so from TOB", a provider knows that she is going to be expected to be on her very best behavior, and then some.... and if she doesn't do back flips the chance of getting a bad review is quite good.

This way of thinking is just so foreign to me, that I don't know what to believe. I enjoy the banter here, and have seen some ladies because their posts intruiged me. To learn that my presence here is, in fact, giving them cause to have such negative expectations that they would not want to see me is........disconcerting.

I come here pretty much for the same reason I sometimes hit the local bar afterwork: to shoot the bull with the guys and flirt with the pretty girls. Only, because this is an escort related board, I have a real chance of getting laid once in a while. This is a fun and interesting topic for me.

I guess I'm just too naive and simpleminded for all the games played here. When I don't get the "backflips" from the lady that her previous reviews indicated, I am much more likely to blame myself than give the lady a negative review.

I don't understand those who don't think the same way, and treat the women here the same way. But.....as I said......I'm naive.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Mr.Bubble
speeling

[worksmartnothard]

Only thing it proves is that touting p411 ok's to a lady that is not a member of p411 is pointless and unproductive. So kinda wonder why you would. Personal opinion is that the p411 service can make things easier and perhaps less risky for those occasions when a member client wants to see a member lady. But both represent a small fraction of the market.

Secondly, if I understand correctly from more than one lady, there are those "hobbyists" that like to lord their King John reviewer status over ladies, especially ones that are young and not established. "Give me a discount and I'll give you a good review" "Give me UTF or I'll give you a terrible review" "I can make or break you with my reviews and back channel." on and on. If she has encountered a few of those perhaps she would just as soon take her chances with the "uncouth masses" that frequent BP. Especially if you open with your p411 "pedigree" when she is NOT a member.

Just couple thoughts for what they are worth.

You hit the nail on the head.

[worksmartnothard]

And what is the reason for the "personal preference" of this particular escort to see ONLY inexperienced or naive clients, who aren't familiar with escort review boards, and may not have seen escorts before? The most obvious and logical reason is that she is a lying cheating thief, and she finds that inexperienced, naive clients are the easiest to steal from.

I like logic , and hope you do too.

So here you go doing the exact same thing you got upset she did. You are effectively branding any escort who will not see hobbyists, a liar and a cheat. So is that your brand of logic?

In addition you are calling any guy who is not interested in community boards or posting reviews naive or inexperienced. Many guys know about this and other boards just like it but prefer not to play. Nor do they feel the burning desire to add a review. Maybe they just do not like the atmosphere and prefer to do things their way and be a lot more discreet.

[worksmartnothard]

This way of thinking is just so foreign to me, that I don't know what to believe. I enjoy the banter here, and have seen some ladies because their posts intruiged me. To learn that my presence here is, in fact, giving them cause to have such negative expectations that they would not want to see me is........disconcerting.

I come here pretty much for the same reason I sometimes hit the local bar afterwork: to shoot the bull with the guys and flirt with the pretty girls. Only, because this is an escort related board, I have a real chance of getting laid once in a while. This is a fun and interesting topic for me.

I guess I'm just too naive and simpleminded for all the games played here. When I don't get the "backflips" from the lady that her previous reviews indicated, I am much more likely to blame myself than give the lady a negative review.

I don't understand those who don't think the same way, and treat the women here the same way. But.....as I said......I'm naive.

If a lady has had more than a few bad experiences with self proclaimed hobbyists she might then make a choice to not bother and look elsewhere for her clientele.

Look at it this way, you go to a restaurant and get food poisoning, you might go back one more time but if you went back 4 times, and each and every time got sick, why would keep going back there on the off chance you don't?

Some ladies have had rotten experiences with some guys who call themselves hobbyists and just don't want to deal anymore.

I think Gina said it well enough as did Mr. Reindeer but you will have to do a search for his viewpoint.

[Guest Mr. X]

I just tell the ladies that I own TOB and P411. Depending on my mood I'm often a Hollywood producer.

[pfunk]

This way of thinking is just so foreign to me

When I don't get the "backflips" from the lady that her previous reviews indicated, I am much more likely to blame myself than give the lady a negative review.

I feel the same way that Mr. Bubble does.

I just tell the ladies that I own TOB and P411. Depending on my mood I'm often a Hollywood producer.

Damn! Maybe I should become someone named "Coors"!?!

[gettin' up there]

I've seen a wonderful and now well-reviewed, classy lady who only advertises on BP. When I first saw her when she was new, I asked her if she planned on joining P411. I was surprised when she replied: "No, I heard too many of those guys push for BBFS." Never brought it up again, just covered up and had a good time:). Interesting rep lol

[AaBrenly]

I agree with many posts. She can use her means of determining who to do business with and who not to. That's her decision. I would like to know if being a member of certain sites or a poster of reviews is a negative to the lady it is best to know up front. I'll go elsewhere plenty of great ladies that have good reviews from reputable reviewers to go by for potential meetings. It is too bad that some posters use reviews as leverage, hurts the integrity of the honest reviews. Usually I think I can pick up on that when I am researching the ladies for a future appointment. My experience is P411. EB and TOB have been good to lead me to some fantastic ladies more often than not.

[Guest ezduzit]

Well she can see or not see whomever she chooses, but comments on this board would indicate that P411 hobbysists are a generally safer lot to deal with than random backpage respondents ... but hey, it's her choice.

[Bit Banger]

Texted a BP ad today and mentioned I was P411 with lots of ok's. Got a reply that P411 people and "hobbyists" are a bunch of perverts and pedophiles, and this gal wouldn't go near one of us, and we all publish fake reviews. ...

Unless my comprehension skills are lacking, the OP did the 1st statement.

The portion in bold led me to believe that he did more than make a referral.

To believe that LE doesn't know about all the boards available is naive.

Quite true!!!

More proof that P411 works.

Yes. IMHO any provider who does not appreciate P411 (Date Check, or similar sites) and review sites has something to hide. They don't have to be members, but to be vehemently opposed in the manner the OP describes raises all sorts of RED FLAGs for me.

[2small]

My own experience with P411 has been good. But P411 is not foolproof either. didn't a couple of P411 ladies get busted recently. I would still trust P411 more than BP, especially those fly by night 20somethings on BP. Looks like they are lost and scamming and looking for next weeks rent. as to the op I don't see a need to bring up P411 in the initial contact with a BP girl unless you are asking her if shes a member. nuff said.

Edited March 19, 2014 by 2small
spelling

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

Why? Because they can pay p411's fee? Most reputable hookers will do additional research than rely on a p411 account. Most members of this board are p411 acolytes so I would expect the majority would be pro p411. I would expect that there are more pervs to be p411 members than the general public.

[lola]

She simply prefers a different demographic. Not wrong, not right, just a personal preference. How is her preference any different than a hobbyist refusing to see an unreviewed escort?

this describes me.

[skater]

I can't believe this post still has legs. I haven't been following it, but I read the last few posts. I believe that in this business, as in all, due diligence is a necessary procedure when dealing with someone you don't know. Unless you liked getting fucked in the ass. Well, I mean I do, but not by everyone I run into to. Sometimes you just can't avoid it, either. Part of the cost of doing business in the first place is knowing people will try to fuck you over.

I use Cocourts diligently when evaluating new clients and employees. Unfortunately, you can't use it when all you have is an alias. P411, Eccie, TER, Sowet, TOB are all sources of information that can help a person make a wise decision. I'd much rather know too much about person I am going to do business with than too little. And knowing nothing is just asking for trouble.

And since this is a business, I think before the business transaction begins there should be a contract executed between the parties spelling out the fees charged and services provided, a money back guarantee, an Angie's List review, a copy of the providers D and B, credit report, most recent financial and bank statements, current blood test results, a list of any medical conditions and medications taken, and a copy of a birth certificate.

The real issue is to legalize prostitution and give us our freedom back. This whole illegal activity stuff is pure bullshit and the remnants of some ancient religious misconception. The whole world should fuck more, and kill less. I am going to Mexico in a few weeks for a month and prostitution is legal there. What a way to live. What a perfect fucking vacation!

[Velvet Valentine]

If I were a P411 client/member and I was looking on BP for an appointment, I'd look to see if said provider was on P411 in order to SEND AN APPOINTMENT REQUEST. If not, why bother mentioning it, in that manner, to her at all. Why not just send your refrences? Did you just ask if she has P411 so you can send a request? Isn't that bordering breaking the P411 rules of use? I can see suggesting it to a non-member, but if you are using the system correctly, this shouldn't have been an issue.

[skater]

What P411 rules of use? I don't get your point. The whole issue is simply credibility. Mine and hers. I always ask and look for P411 status on a provider, BP included. Why else would I belong? And if I have a bunch of OK's, isn't that the same as saying I have a bunch of references? She could have asked for the names if she didn't have a P411. But, it never happened because I could not verify HER, and her response made me dislike her instantly anyway.

Most people just don't listen when it comes to business advice, especially in this business. I think some ladies forget, or never even realize, that it's a business and because of that they lose business and clients or don't make as much as they should. Running an ASP business is really no different than selling any other product or service. The same rules apply. They always have and they always will. I'm talking things like customer service, marketing, accounting, measuring performance and setting goals, and so on. It all boils down to MAKING MONEY. As much as you can with the least amount of effort.

I advise small businesses every minute of every day. Most of the time it's like baby sitting. Once in a great while I run into someone who has business acumen. The only organization I can think of that understands business, in general, is Club 69. That is my unbiased opinion and I'm not getting paid to say that! Wish I was...