"You Can Never Do That"

[pitbull]

I was talking to a friend of mine on the west coast who is going through a marriage separation. I said, "Well, you could actually start dating again." He replied, "I don't want another relationship." I responded, "You could have one-hour relationships for $200 - $300."

That's when he said, "You can never do that. You will always get caught, and it will always lead to ruin." At that point, I just backed off and said, "I guess you're right."

This is an average guy in his late 40s, and I don't think he is all that different from a lot of men. That is, there are so many people who think that LE will set upon them, or they'll instantly get diseases, etc. I certainly harbored the same views. I thought only "lowlifes" would ever see "that kind" of woman.

When you log into TOB and participate in this casual conversation, I think we lose touch with how the rest of society views this endeavor. They don't like it, they are mystified by it, and they can't fathom participation...until they can. They fathom it when loneliness consumes them for a variety of reasons. Anyway, my friend's reaction made it all kind of hit home -- this is a subculture and definitely not part of the mainstream. Why am I posting this? I have no clue, but there it is.

[toohappy]

exactly. I know what i thought before i got involved with this. I now think that everyone does this.. haha

[Mustang87]

I think you are right, and I have often thought the same thing. These things that I have to come to take for granted over the last 5 years ago, I had no clue even existed before that. Most people don't know this world exists, and many of those who do, have gross misconceptions about it.

[Guest]

Many of the same people think "enjoying" porn that would repulse many of us is totally "normal". There's a whole genre of porn that is about trying to humiliate, degrade, and dehumanize women. And that's legal.

I don't know what every experience with an escort is like. I know what mine have been like, and I know what I read on here, and for the most part, the guys seem to respect the women. I read over and over that you treat these meetings as you would treat any meeting with a woman you are on a date with. Clean up, dress well, be respectful and polite. And that's illegal.

I posted my "everyone is crazy" thoughts in another thread. People love to get worked up about something they know nothing about. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Wow. I just quoted the Bible to explain why people shouldn't judge prostitution. That's crazy! I mean, you wouldn't catch Jesus hanging out with a bunch of hookers, would you?

Most people just aren't all that bright. Very few people have the ability to actually evaluate things and make their own decisions. They live by rules made by people long dead, and defend them as if they had some say in it. They do what they're told and are threatened by people who don't. Smart people see through all that and want things to be "right". These are the people who get fired up about politics. They become convinced that some other set of rules would be better, and they try to make that happen.

Really smart people look at all of it from a different perspective. They see this is all a game, none of it matters, and the rules aren't that hard. Once you figure that out, you can build a reasonable life that affords you the opportunity to pursue whatever you see fit.

I read an article about men who pay for sex. It kind of divided us into two groups. The first group is the guys who pick up women on the street. That's probably morphing into the guys looking at the $80 special on Backpage. The other group it labeled "Hobbyists". It described them as mostly white, mostly married, with an average income of $120,000 per year, who find their escorts mostly on review oriented sites. I'd guess that describes a lot of the people here.

If you're smart, and figure out the rules, you learn how to make the world work for you instead of working against it.

(This article isn't the one I read before but seems to be based on the same information)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/29/prostitution-johns-study_n_2973116.html

[dj278]

Why think when we have social memes to tell us what is right and what is wrong?

[Guest pejo]

It was several years ago. I was lying on a massage table at what I thought was a normal salon. The therapist mentioned that she would be happy to remove the sheet that was covering me, if I didn't mind.

And, yeah verily, mine eyes were opened, and I did see the light!

[Bit Banger]

... I mean, you wouldn't catch Jesus hanging out with a bunch of hookers, would you? ...

According to some accounts, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. By others she was his wife.

[Guest]

According to some accounts, Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. By others she was his wife.

Wait, what?!

If I didn't know better, I'd think I did that on purpose!

[snowmanmc]

I'm in a similar situation. My coworker is in a low sex marriage and i bite my tongue whenever he talks about not getting any.

[Guest]

To paraphrase one great man: "I'm the luckiest man alive."

I've experienced more in the past several years than many, many men.

I've known (in every sense of the word) many women -- all different and all special.

The wonderful, the beautiful, the good, the bad, the crazy and the ugly -- they are all special to me.

I've learned a lot about them and about myself.

I feel blessed and privileged. It's been quite a ride.

YeeHa!

[txspine33]

I've often thought of the stigma with this hobby and the need to keep it on the down low. The reality is this hobby is expensive. ...but probably cheaper than marriage. ..and a divorce for sure. Unlike many here, I'm a single . I have many commitments ...stupid busy. As I've gotten older I understand that dating, marriage, hobbying...it's all a commodity market. I can say that Menver does create a demand as it takes work to play the dating field...for sure it's out there but paying for quick play is so much less brain damage and really less expensive. The part I appreciate most of all is the honesty.

[Guest]

Tsk tsk. I met a newbie once I was his first provider, and perhaps his last. After we finished , he looked at me with thinly veiled disgust and asked "how do you live with yourself living like this? How do you sleep at night?" Well...OUCH. my answer? "I sleep just fine, sir. Knowing that I make 5000+ a month pretty much knocks out any internal struggle I have. Who the hell wants to be broke and scared all the time?" It's not for everyone...until it is.

[bd5671]

I was talking to a friend of mine on the west coast who is going through a marriage separation. I said, "Well, you could actually start dating again." He replied, "I don't want another relationship." I responded, "You could have one-hour relationships for $200 - $300."

That's when he said, "You can never do that. You will always get caught, and it will always lead to ruin." At that point, I just backed off and said, "I guess you're right."

This is an average guy in his late 40s, and I don't think he is all that different from a lot of men. That is, there are so many people who think that LE will set upon them, or they'll instantly get diseases, etc. I certainly harbored the same views. I thought only "lowlifes" would ever see "that kind" of woman.

When you log into TOB and participate in this casual conversation, I think we lose touch with how the rest of society views this endeavor. They don't like it, they are mystified by it, and they can't fathom participation...until they can. They fathom it when loneliness consumes them for a variety of reasons. Anyway, my friend's reaction made it all kind of hit home -- this is a subculture and definitely not part of the mainstream. Why am I posting this? I have no clue, but there it is.

"Here's my story

It's sad but true..."

And not trying to sound like the beginning of a 60's pop hit by Dion,

but here goes...

About 4 years ago, during a bad time in my marriage,

I was perusing the annuals of craigslist in the "Adult" section(Remember those days?)

when I came upon an ad that caught my eye, "Young mother needs help".

I started a correspondence with this person and after a few days and emails back & forth,

We decided to meet. I was unsure what I was getting into, but my marriage was breaking up,

and I needed reassurance that I was still a viable, and nice person.

Our initial meeting was platonic, & I discovered she was legit, and an ASP & gave massages.

A few meetings later, I was hooked, literally. We became friends and continued to be so,

even after my marriage broke up. She has since retired, and I wish my friend well.

I have seen a few other ASP's since, but the same magic is gone.

I made friends with another woman in the business quite accidentally,

but our relationship is platonic. I have declined to visit others, as my health has declined,

and I still think that those who provide and those who partake are ok in what they do.

It's their choice to indulge, and I see no harm in it, for either party.

As for me, I have chosen to sit this one out, until my health improves,

Or at least until the excitement returns. Until then, I shall choose to observe.

I'm not sad, or feeling I am missing out, but the spark is gone & I don't know if it will return,

Anytime soon. I guess you could say I'm on waivers right now, unsure if i will return to my playing career.

I'm optimistic but resigned to the fact that my best years are behind me.

bd55671

[ash_36]

Just because your friend is openly against out doesn't mean he is. He might really be, but I think with the way society looks upon the hobby, most people will deny interest, even if it is there. Just like when you were in Junior High school and all the guys denied masturbating, and used it to make fun of others. But you know they all did it....a lot. Or like the politicians who preach against homosexuality, but get caught in public bathrooms with men. When it comes to am activity like this, most people won't ever admit to entertaining the idea even when they do.

[Guest]

I think this activity is more mainstream than your friend seems to think. It isn't called "the oldest profession" by accident or because only a small sub-culture of society is participating. My first experience was when I walked into an Asian Massage establishment, after my first table shower and massage with HE, I kept going back at least once a month until I responded to a classified ad in the newspaper (yes, I've been doing this for a while) which was way before TOB or BP. After finding an ASP who I connected with, she then introduced me to many of her girlfriends and we've enjoyed each other's company ever since. Nothing like variety!

Bottom line is there are a lot of people everywhere who participate in this activity and lead perfectly normal average lives outside of the hobby. Sure, there are always weirdos, deviants and psychos on both sides (providers and johns) but for the most part we're all in this to fill a void in our everyday lives and activities are conducted with business/pleasure model as a guide.

I've met some wonderful ASP's along the way and look forward to enjoying their company as long as they plan on staying in the business. I've also found it harder to make a connection with some of the newer ASP's (with one or two exceptions) but have attributed that to the big difference in our age(s) and the generational gap that comes along with it.

Maybe I should change my handle to (ReallyOldMisterBigShot)?

[nevik63]

This is a well thought out group of posts, it is interesting to reads others thoughts on the hobby. We all have different reasons for being here, mine is I have asperger's and have found it difficult to maintain relationships.

I think if you are smart and careful this is relatively safe - (I left one hotel in my 8 years of doing this because of four cop cars in the lot). I'll also say I think Denver has an extraordinary community, and this forum is part of the reason!

[pitbull]

I appreciate all the interesting responses. It's true that my friend may have made his "You can never do that" statement while seeing a different lady every week, but I really doubt it.

The only reason I would even mention the possibility of a "one-hour relationship" is because of our level of trust while doing business and being friends for many years. Anyway, I am glad TOB is here, because you really can't discuss these matters ANYWHERE else. I remember my first ASP experience like it was yesterday, and I told that sweet woman things I have never told anyone. I bet she had heard it all before, but she was a great listener. I think I paid her for a psychology session with play time thrown in.

It's amazing all the different reasons people are here. The irony for me is that I don't want variety, and I don't want other women besides my wife. I have done everything to keep her interest, reduce her stress, stay in shape, etc, but her quarterly sex is just not enough. If it had not been for my FBSM lady and the occasional FS, my marriage would be over and I would be incredibly sad, as would others.

Another irony is that the family values crowd condemns this hobby when it has, in fact, kept many families together. I don't know any studies to back that up, but surely I'm not the only one. But I'm rambling again...

[Guest]

I'm in a similar situation. My coworker is in a low sex marriage and i bite my tongue whenever he talks about not getting any.

I have a male friend who is in a very low point of his marriage. To avoid some of the details; he expressed some frustration a few months back and said "I wish I could hire a hooker to clean my house". I responded with "I may know a few Ladies to help you out with that". Long story short, he didn't, but it led to an interesting conversation where I explained to him a few things about an underground world he didn't know existed. He has yet to partake in playing but he plans to once his Divorce is finalized.

"Here's my story...

I have seen a few other ASP's since, but the same magic is gone.

I made friends with another woman in the business quite accidentally,

but our relationship is platonic. I have declined to visit others, as my health has declined,

and I still think that those who provide and those who partake are ok in what they do.

It's their choice to indulge, and I see no harm in it, for either party.

As for me, I have chosen to sit this one out, until my health improves,

Or at least until the excitement returns. Until then, I shall choose to observe.

I'm not sad, or feeling I am missing out, but the spark is gone & I don't know if it will return,

Anytime soon. I guess you could say I'm on waivers right now, unsure if i will return to my playing career.

I'm optimistic but resigned to the fact that my best years are behind me.

I believe the fact that you stay in the circle, even tho you are not playing in the circle, says that you still get some enjoyment from it. It's not sexual in nature but it's still mentally (and maybe somewhat emotionally) fulfilling. NaughtyNiceGuy recently left this world but made a point to keep connected with us in his last few days. He felt like this was a part of him and he wanted to make sure everyone knew it. Those connections aren't the same for everyone. I believe it's what you get out of it that keeps you going.

This is a well thought out group of posts, it is interesting to reads others thoughts on the hobby. We all have different reasons for being here, mine is I have asperger's and have found it difficult to maintain relationships.

I think you are doing the right thing to keep yourself engaged in your needs. Aspergers isn't an easy one to handle and this is a great way to allow yourself to feel like a Man when you have needs you would like met. There is a level of respect on both ends without the worry maintaining emotional needs.

It's amazing all the different reasons people are here. The irony for me is that I don't want variety, and I don't want other women besides my wife. I have done everything to keep her interest, reduce her stress, stay in shape, etc, but her quarterly sex is just not enough. If it had not been for my FBSM lady and the occasional FS, my marriage would be over and I would be incredibly sad, as would others.

Another irony is that the family values crowd condemns this hobby when it has, in fact, kept many families together. I don't know any studies to back that up, but surely I'm not the only one. But I'm rambling again...

I've heard this from so many. I don't judge and in fact it makes me happy knowing that they've entrusted me with this knowledge. It's a form of therapy for you that keeps you happy with meeting your needs so you can put more focus on the needs that need to be met at home. I have a handful of Men who's Wives have actually suggested they do this. Granted, those relationships are rare, but I think its the Women realizing that even an hour away makes them come home happier. I wish more Wives would be open to this but sadly we women tend to think with our hearts out of fear than our vaginas out of pleasure.

[pitbull]

Well said, Justina. Well said.

[waferthinmint]

Wait, what?!

If I didn't know better, I'd think I did that on purpose!

Don't worry, I think most of us caught the irony