Good article on the 'human trafficking' surge

[Guest]

It seems to be driven more by mis/bad information, as well as by grant dollars.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/27/lies-damned-lies-and-sex-work-statistics/

[MAG]

It seems to be driven more by mis/bad information, as well as by grant dollars.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/27/lies-damned-lies-and-sex-work-statistics/

Agreed 100%. People can link to Wiki articles all they want, it doesn't change the fact that trafficking is an issue that has been over-dramatized by politics and money.

[The Oxymoron]

The median age of providers on P411 is 39.

Probably higher than the true average of providers including BP and whatnot, but I'd guess the true median to be closer to 30-32.

Of course, younger providers are out there.... but the perception that young providers are a dime a dozen is not accurate. More mature providers are actually a dime a dozen, but you never hear about them because they don't bring in nearly the sympathy or ratings that poor, young, sweet things from the suburbs draw.

It's all about ratings, and funding... play those heart strings, get that money.

Oh and trust me when I say, the Asian massage parlor girls know exactly what line to play when their spot gets busted. "Oh, I'm a poor trafficked little brainless fool and I thought it was a cleaning job"... as long as she plays that part, she's going to get off with a residency card. If she tells the truth, that she knew exactly what she was going to be doing, and fully intends to continue doing it as long as she needs to, she's getting deported (duh). These women AREN'T stupid, to assume they are is foolish.

Why don't young drug dealers get the same sympathy? Maybe they are manipulated, threatened and co-oerced too. Or maybe they just made some messed up decisions and need to make some changes within themselves to change their lives.

I just never understand why young women who are making questionable decisions are assumed to be victims, manipulated by men, who need saving. While young men who are making questionable decisions are criminals who need to be locked away.

Anyway.... it's an interesting topic, to me anyway.

[Guest]

The median age of providers on P411 is 39.

Oh and trust me when I say, the Asian massage parlor girls know exactly what line to play when their spot gets busted. "Oh, I'm a poor trafficked little brainless fool and I thought it was a cleaning job"... as long as she plays that part, she's going to get off with a residency card. These women AREN'T stupid, to assume they are is foolish.

I have never given that aspect any thought, and I don't doubt it at all.

[pitbull]

I have never given that aspect any thought, and I don't doubt it at all.

Interesting. The one AMP lady here up north turned out to be the OWNER of the parlor when the place got popped. No trafficking, just a shrewd business woman.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

While I agree that they aren't stupid I must disagree that they aren't trafficked. Most of the Asian (and eastern European) women get into the sex trade due to poverty then the mamasan/pimp will put them into further debt by charging them for their travel, rent, clothes, etc. and keep their passports until their debt is paid off which is seldom achieved due to high interest.

[The Oxymoron]

Most of the Asian (and eastern European) women get into the sex trade due to poverty then the mamasan/pimp will put them into further debt by charging them for their travel, rent, clothes, etc. and keep their passports until their debt is paid off which is seldom achieved due to high interest.

I'm sure it happens, there is no question of that.

However, the women DO know what they are getting into and it's absolutely no secret that the loans they are getting (for airfare, visas, etc) will need to be paid back. They aren't gifts, and that is no surprise. No one is forced to take those loans, and if the provider decides to get involved in that type of situation, should she not be at least somewhat responsible for her decision to do so? Or are we back to the "poor feeble minded woman who cannot make her own decisions, who needs to be saved".

People make bad decisions, they get themselves mixed up in bad situations.

If a provider who decides to take a high interest loan and get herself mixed up in a bad situation is a victim who needs "saved", why isn't a drug dealer who is fronted drugs and and gets himself mixed up in a bad situation afforded the same sympathy?

I'm not saying that all of these situations are admirable or that there isn't some really crappy stuff that happens to people. All I'm saying is that the women have much more of a hand in their fate than people want to accept. As long as they are treated like victims, they will continue to play the victim role, and as long as they think they are victims they will be victimized over and over and over.

The realization that you have control of your destiny, that you do not have to be the victim that people keep telling you that you are, is what can save a woman who is in a messed up situation, particularly in this industry.

I'm also saying that the providers who are working illegally know they MUST tell the "passport taken, held hostage" story or they are going to be deported. If you want to save them, be my guest. However, I have enough experience in this industry to know another side... a side that no John would ever know, since they are also the targets of the "poor me, save me, give me money to escape" line.

[boink36]

The median age of providers on P411 is 39.

Probably higher than the true average of providers including BP and whatnot, but I'd guess the true median to be closer to 30-32.

Of course, younger providers are out there.... but the perception that young providers are a dime a dozen is not accurate. More mature providers are actually a dime a dozen, but you never hear about them because they don't bring in nearly the sympathy or ratings that poor, young, sweet things from the suburbs draw.

It's all about ratings, and funding... play those heart strings, get that money.

Oh and trust me when I say, the Asian massage parlor girls know exactly what line to play when their spot gets busted. "Oh, I'm a poor trafficked little brainless fool and I thought it was a cleaning job"... as long as she plays that part, she's going to get off with a residency card. If she tells the truth, that she knew exactly what she was going to be doing, and fully intends to continue doing it as long as she needs to, she's getting deported (duh). These women AREN'T stupid, to assume they are is foolish.

Why don't young drug dealers get the same sympathy? Maybe they are manipulated, threatened and co-oerced too. Or maybe they just made some messed up decisions and need to make some changes within themselves to change their lives.

I just never understand why young women who are making questionable decisions are assumed to be victims, manipulated by men, who need saving. While young men who are making questionable decisions are criminals who need to be locked away.

Anyway.... it's an interesting topic, to me anyway.

This really has to do with the age old discrimination against women. the puplic still sees women as fragile, helpless and weak so they are victims. they see the men as strong and capable, therefore they are just making stupid decisions.

[fork]

This really has to do with the age old discrimination against women. the puplic still sees women as fragile, helpless and weak so they are victims. they see the men as strong and capable, therefore they are just making stupid decisions.

I'm a feminist. Because I believe men are just as stupid as women.

[The Oxymoron]

This really has to do with the age old discrimination against women. the puplic still sees women as fragile, helpless and weak so they are victims. they see the men as strong and capable, therefore they are just making stupid decisions.

Exactly..... and it makes me crazy!

[Guest]

I have always thought that the media/society has exaggerated the situation. Although it does happen, human trafficking is a myth as portrayed by the media.

A Spa here in the Springs was just busted, they claimed that there were charges for pimping and adult human trafficking. This seems to me a pointless statement. As adults, we know what we are doing, and should assume responsibility for the decisions we make. This goes for any female [snip] and older. They know what they are doing, they know what sex is. Like Gina, I get tired of the victim card being played.

Edited April 1, 2014 by The Oxymoron
forbidden topic

[Bit Banger]

... I just never understand why young women who are making questionable decisions are assumed to be victims, manipulated by men, who need saving. ...

Paternalism! And the biological drive to protect those who carry & nurture the next generation.

... While young men who are making questionable decisions are criminals who need to be locked away.

...

Eliminate the competition for creating the next generation

I agree with you, there is a great deal of sexism in the way we treat our youth.

{EDIT}

Should have read Boink's response before I posted. +1

{/EDIT}

[pitbull]

I have always thought that the media/society has exaggerated the situation. Although it does happen, human trafficking is a myth as portrayed by the media.

A Spa here in the Springs was just busted, they claimed that there were charges for pimping and adult human trafficking. This seems to me a pointless statement. As adults, we know what we are doing, and should assume responsibility for the decisions we make. This goes for any female [snip] and older. They know what they are doing, they know what sex is. Like Gina, I get tired of the victim card being played.

I disagree that a female [snip] and older generally "knows what she is doing." She is easily manipulated and not an adult, either in the eyes of the law or in any other sense. As a dad with a [forbidden topic] of just that age, and seeing her friends of the same age, I can attest. Every [snip]-year-old female is different, of course, but as a general rule, I think my statement stands.

Edited April 1, 2014 by The Oxymoron
forbidden topic

[Guest Mr.Bubble]

I disagree that a female [snip] and older generally "knows what she is doing." She is easily manipulated and not an adult, either in the eyes of the law or in any other sense. As a dad with a [forbidden topic] of just that age, and seeing her friends of the same age, I can attest. Every [snip]-year-old female is different, of course, but as a general rule, I think my statement stands.

Add to that developmental disabilities, and it is possible to have a legally aged 19 to 20 year old woman who has the intellectual or emotional age of someone [much] younger. This is the kind of person......male or female.....who can be manipulated and controlled with great ease.

Edited April 1, 2014 by The Oxymoron
forbidden topic

[The Oxymoron]

I think that a certain level of emotional maturity is needed to be able to be able to handle this business in an effective manner. The age I think is a good minimum is 25, with 30 being even better.

However, I also believe that anyone who is over the age of majority should be able to decide who they have sex with and why, and should be held responsible for their own decisions... good, bad or debatable.

[Guest Likenthrope]

Why don't young drug dealers get the same sympathy? Maybe they are manipulated, threatened and co-oerced too. Or maybe they just made some messed up decisions and need to make some changes within themselves to change their lives.

What makes you think they don't get sympathy? I got into the work that I do because I sympathized with stupid, drug addicted, drug dealing young men. I was one. I've had multiple friends that died of OD's. I understand what it's like to make bad decisions. I did eventually choose not to live that life anymore, but there was a time in my life that if circumstances had been less fortunate, my life would be very different now. The thing is I know what to do to help them, and what not to do. I know when they're trying to manipulate me, I know if they need help, and I know when they don't. I'm pretty comfortable with it. I also have people I can talk to about it when I'm uncertain about something.

I'm not as certain on what to do with women in this lifestyle who may need help, whether I should help or not, or even if they do actually need it. I also don't have anyone to talk to about it, so I'm left guessing and second-guessing myself on how to go about it.

I may have been fooled and temporarily horrified by articles clearly written by activists to illicit such a response, but when I brought this up I had one simple goal: to get advice on how to help when someone asks. Especially what to do if asked under the circumstances most of us on this board find ourselves in. I didn't get it.

[The Oxymoron]

I had one simple goal: to get advice on how to help when someone asks. Especially what to do if asked under the circumstances most of us on this board find ourselves in. I didn't get it.

I thought that the people who participated in the thread basically said that they thought you did what you could, by dropping her off at a shelter. From there she would be able to access the services she needed, if she felt inclined to do so.

What other advice were you hoping to get?

What makes you think they don't get sympathy? I got into the work that I do because I sympathized with stupid, drug addicted, drug dealing young men.

Perhaps they do, but I'm quite certain the level of sympathy is not quite the same.

I'm not reading stories about how male drug dealers/gang members from the inner-cities need to be saved from the people who are manipulating them. They are painted as worthless human beings by the media, charged as adults and locked away, as far as I know.

I just think everyone should have access to services that will assist them when they are ready to make some changes in their life. I don't think that millions of dollars in funding will change anyone's mind, if they aren't ready to make some changes within themselves.

You did what you could do, I probably would have done the same.

Edited April 2, 2014 by The Oxymoron

[josulli]

I'm 65.. I had a "thing" with a provider who turned out to be barely 21... As I dove further into the web.. I learned that she had been recruited by a 40 something experienced provider.. she started and all was great.. she kept what she made.. and then things changed.. she had to turn over 1/2 of everything she made.. plus pay a daily rate for the room she used at the condo controlled by the older provider.. plus pay for her advertising.. plus pay for transportation to and from the house..plus any tips or gifts she got were kept by the older woman.. so human traffiking? Idon't know..but it wasn't right.. bottom line, she was always broke.. had barely enough to eat.. she was a white kid from the suburbs.. just naive.. She left last week.. finally, and is now with family.. I miss her a lot.. but it was for the best.. she pushed my buttons.. she was way too young..