ATFs and Regular clients. Or, "There's one born every minute"

[pfunk]

I think this relates well...

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=364501&postcount=1

Trying to use money, to influence a girl's emotions, will fail. If you just give a gift, or tip, because you want to, that seems fine to me.

[Crazy Horse]

Just my view, and not intending to pick a fight with a patriarch, but good on you for paying extra for the privilege of being regarded as a "nice guy"

This quote and this thread in general shows one of the major differences you find in people. Some always expect something in return for what they give as gifts even if it is only to be seen as a "nice guy". While others give just for the joy of giving and find that it is it's own reward even if as part of a business transaction.

I wouldn't say one outlook is better than another as I've practiced both at one time or another depending on circumstances. The difference is what it is but most don't recognize what they do as they do it.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Goggles Paesano]

Just playing a little "devil's advocate" here...

What you fellas do with your money is none of my business, nor is it anybody elses. If you want to give gifts to the providers or leave them a tip, then that's your business. Personally, I have no interest or desire in giving them gifts and I only on rare occasions will leave a tip (usually if it's the provider's birthday). Now, some of you will probably "attack" me and accuse me of being a jerk, a pig, a douche, etc. but I really couldn't care less.

Just because I don't kiss the provider's ass (figuratively speaking of course) and throw extra money at her, doesn't mean that I'm not courteous or respectful as a client. As I have stated in a previous thread post... I never haggle prices, I never take advantage of a provider's kindness or generosity, I never monopolize her time and I NEVER expect anything above and beyond the pre-set agreed upon rate and likewise, she shouldn't expect anything extra from me.

As far as I'm concerned, that should be enough. If she doesn't like it, then she has the option to not see me again if I choose to book another session with her.

I saw a provider about a year ago.... paid her the agreed amount and had a good time (good...not great). I attempted to see her again a few weeks later when she came back through town. She was willing to see me, but she told me that she had raised her rates. When I casually (and politely) asked her why, she explained to me that her rate increase was specifically for me because I "failed to tip" her the last time I saw her. She said that she was accustomed to guys tipping "AT LEAST" $20 extra and she was surprised/disappointed that I hadn't done the same. We then got into a disagreement about tipping etiquette. Needless to say, I declined to see her again.

Tips and gratuity are just that... GRATUITY! They shouldn't be expected and they certainly shouldn't be required. At that point, they are no longer gratuity! Now, I know some of you "seasoned" fellas with deeper pockets (and probably all of the providers) that are reading this will accuse me of being a cheapskate or a tightwad. Let me make a clarification... whenever I dine at a restaurant, I tip the waiter or waitress very well (generally more than the customary 20%) because they get paid less than minimum wage and rely on tips to make up for that. But when a provider makes $200+ a session... I feel no need to give extra and have no qualms about it whatsoever!

I get really pissed when I see providers (usually the ghetto providers on backpage) scatter freakin' dollar sign all over their ads and emphasize phrases like "generous men" and "tips appreciated". It's a huge turn-off for me.

This thread is a lot like the other thread "Something for our ladies". It's more or less the same debate being re-hashed here.

I conclude by trying to drive home the same point on this thread that I was trying to make on that thread...

for those of you who claim to be so nice/kind/giving/generous, are you always this nice and generous, or does it maybe just have something to do with the fact that she has a vagina? I'm skeptical that some of you big-talkin' guys show the same kind of generosity with your mail carrier...barber...mechanic...accountant...etc. (unless they happen to be hot chicks)

To quote one of my favorite lines from a movie... "Your problem is that you're puttin' the pussy on a pedestal." And that is what I suspect is the case here with many of you.

And now that I've shared my opinion... let the insults and personal attacks commence.

They'll make for entertaining reading.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Goggles Paesano
typos

[MAG]

And now that I've shared my opinion... let the insults and personal attacks commence.

Indeed they will -- because you hit very close to home with that post.

Well said, by the way. You don't have to ingratiate yourself to be a good client.

That idiot who raised her rates just for you is not being honest with her advertising. She basically expects $20 more than she advertises, from EVERYONE. That's the kind of shit that makes me want to never tip again.

Rock on, Goggles.

[Jez UaBriain]

I have to ask the op if he gets a discount at King Sooper's because he grocery shops there regularlly. And do you get a discount on your utilities because you use the same company for those necessities. Why do you guys feel that you deserve a discounted rate? Why do hoe's have to carry the burden of our society, by being the ones expected to discount our services - but yet still be expected to go above and beyond the call of duty manytimes over.

I have had guys thinki I should give them a free session because its their birthday. But I can guarentee when mine rolls around no one will be handing me a gift worth 250.

I just don't get this - expectation of a discount. If I am discounting anything-it will be my idea. Not my clients. One more thing. If you are getting a lower price then anyone else, then who do you think will get priority in a session? The guy who is paying the requested fee. That is who.

[Crazy Horse]

And now that I've shared my opinion... let the insults and personal attacks commence.

They'll make for entertaining reading.

[MrReindeer-9515]

Snip-redundant

Snip- redundant

With almost 20 posts between you two in the last thread and this one, I think we get it. The only thing remaining: which one of you gets to change his handle to Mr Pink?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enJwYaeolXc

[Goggles Paesano]

With almost 20 posts between you two in the last thread and this one, I think we get it. The only thing remaining: which one of you gets to change his handle to Mr Pink?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enJwYaeolXc

av8r and I are still figuring out which one of us gets that honor.

And the only thing more "redundant" than our posts is your petty and childish responses. I've been checking out your posting history and can't help but notice how you so frequently resort to petty name-calling and condescending personal attacks.

I figured you'd be the first one with the smart-ass comment, and you didn't disappoint.

[Guest]

This thread has exceeded my wildest expectations. Thank you to everyone who responded. I'm getting a lot of information. I hope I draw the right conclusions.

Whoooo boy! Let's dive in!

I have to ask the op if he gets a discount at King Sooper's because he grocery shops there regularlly.

Yes I do! They used to have "King Soopers cards" which got you a discount. Then every store got them. So, in essence, to compete EVERY store had to offer a discount.

And do you get a discount on your utilities because you use the same company for those necessities.

Yes I do! IREA serves Douglas and Elbert county, and offers a member rebate based in part upon usage. I also get purchase credits on things like electric heaters, which use more electricity.

I wonder, though, if you really meant to relate the sales of commodities like groceries or electricity to the sale of your body. Are you freely admitting that your body is just another commodity? /kəˈmɒdɪti/

Perhaps a better comparison would have been a Doctor. Doctors don't generally offer discounts. They already have more business than they can handle.

Why do you guys feel that you deserve a discounted rate?

You know, because of the personal nature of this service industry, all I really want to know is if my return business is appreciated or taken for granted. I chose a discount because that is the easiest way to show appreciation, but I was also interested in the mention of other forms of special service or treatment.

Would YOU do business with a service provider who took YOUR business for granted?

Why do hoe's have to carry the burden of our society, by being the ones expected to discount our services - but yet still be expected to go above and beyond the call of duty manytimes over.

Welcome to the wonderful world of owning your own business. I am a personal accountant, tax season is upon us, and I am going to lose the next 4 months of my life. People frequently complain about my rates. They can fill out the 1040 by themselves! God forbid if I don't get their taxes done by April 15th! Let me paraphrase your statement:

"Why do tax preparers have to carry the burden of our society, by being the ones expected to discount our services - but yet still be expected to go above and beyond the call of duty manytimes over."

See, whining does not sound any better when I do it.

If you are getting a lower price then anyone else, then who do you think will get priority in a session? The guy who is paying the requested fee. That is who.

If by this, you mean that you tend to give preference to clients who don't ask for discounts, or maybe even tip, then this makes sense. If you have so many clients, you SHOULD choose the ones who pay more.

I give discounts to guys that I see fit. Not guys that EXPECT it.

Who gets special treatment? Why?

The guy that doesn't expect it. Because he doesn't expect it.

This makes no sense. If I expect special treatment for return visits (one of the reasons I would be scheduling a return visit), I won't get it. But if I DON'T expect special treatment, I'll never get it because I WON'T be rescheduling with you. So, in essence, you NEVER give special treatment to any clients?

I suspect your first statement is the most correct, and true for all ladies. You give discounts as you see fit. More on this later.

Dude, don't puss out!

Sorry. Not here to impress anyone, even you. I am after specific info. If I have to grovel a little to get it, so be it.

As far as people getting special treatment, that's a complicated question to answer. I'm the Vampire Victoria; When a client shows up and wants to talk to me about vampires, roleplay with me, genuinely enjoys spending time with me and has a great time in our session, I look forward to seeing them again. Some clients tell me how awesome I am and make me feel special, and tell me what a good time they've had, and I can tell, so I enjoy spending time with them. All of my regulars are great, or they don't become regulars. The only people I've ever dumped as clients have insisted I give them a discount or extra time, at my own expense. That's never fun to deal with.

On the other hand, I've had good regulars who have called me up for an hour and I stayed all night because I was having a great time and I didn't have another appointment scheduled. I've had regulars who were having a rough time financially and just wanted to hang so I let them decide what they could afford. I've seen clients who lived far away because their car was broken down, and I didn't charge a traveling fee or raise my rates.

Those are the things you should expect from your ATF, not a flat discount. And even those things shouldn't ever be asked for. Extras and special treatment are bonuses, like tips and gifts. No one should expect them, but when you get them, you should appreciate them for what they are.

Thank you VV, this was a very helpful post. This, combined with Destiny's comment, shows that you ladies will give preferential treatment to clients based on how much you like them, or how attractive they are, and then, secondarily, on how much they pay. Understandable, but it is a hell of a way to run a business.

I think this relates well...

http://www.theotherboard.com/forums/...01&postcount=1

Trying to use money, to influence a girl's emotions, will fail. If you just give a gift, or tip, because you want to, that seems fine to me.

Agree 100%, which is why I referenced the same thread. I want to be considered a "valuable customer", with all the special treatment that gets you in other service industries. In THIS industry, tipping or (at the very least) not asking for discounts might help you achieve "valued customer status," but it will have a minimal effect compared to being attractive.

If you are over 45, over weight, or just plain unattractive, no amount of money is going to buy you that status. And you are a sucker if you think it will.

[Crazy Horse]

I have to ask the op if he gets a discount at King Sooper's because he grocery shops there regularlly. And do you get a discount on your utilities because you use the same company for those necessities. Why do you guys feel that you deserve a discounted rate? Why do hoe's have to carry the burden of our society, by being the ones expected to discount our services - but yet still be expected to go above and beyond the call of duty manytimes over.

I have had guys thinki I should give them a free session because its their birthday. But I can guarentee when mine rolls around no one will be handing me a gift worth 250.

I just don't get this - expectation of a discount. If I am discounting anything-it will be my idea. Not my clients. One more thing. If you are getting a lower price then anyone else, then who do you think will get priority in a session? The guy who is paying the requested fee. That is who.

Well Jez if you don't mind some respectful disagreement here goes. In my wallet right now I have cards to both King Soopers and Safeway that gives me access to discounted prices on many items. Would one of them be doing it if the other wasn't or if it wasn't working for both? Special pricing for return customers is a time honored tradition you can find in just about any profession although not everyone in a profession may participate in the practice. Many providers in this profession offer special pricing for return clients and even advertise those special rates.

Now as a business person you need to decide how important return business is as opposed to a steady stream one timers. Is your competition getting an upper hand by offer special rates to return clients? In this specific profession are return clients safer than unknown first timers?

Whatever the considerations are that the business person has to making a decision on if they want to participate in this particular business practice or not it seems counter productive to blame the competitive shopping customer as it's just what they do and a part of what you have to take into consideration.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Goggles Paesano]

Sorry. Not here to impress anyone, even you.

Well, that's a relief. I can sleep soundly now that I know that.

If I have to grovel a little to get it, so be it.

By all means... be my guest. Just don't forget to check your dignity and self-respect at the door.

[MrReindeer-9515]

av8r and I are still figuring out which one of us gets that honor.

Well, if you would just give her a bigger tip...

And the only thing more "redundant" than our posts is your petty and childish responses. I've been checking out your posting history and can't help but notice how you so frequently resort to petty name-calling and condescending personal attacks.

Wasn't really doing that in the previous post, but I will indulge in a bit, in this one: Considering certain aspects of your "condition"(your personality as displayed here, for one example), you should probably be the biggest tipping motherfucker on the planet, but to each his/her own.

I figured you'd be the first one with the smart-ass comment, and you didn't disappoint.

I live to serve, and I rarely disappoint.

All talk of gas/grocery discounts aside, the bottom line is mentioned previously and in the renamed header:

TO EACH HIS/HER OWN.

If you think for whatever reason you have some kind of discount coming, you probably don't. If you don't like that, you are free to take your business elsewhere; but posting on here, over and over, the reasons why you do/don't is redundant and lame.

[Goggles Paesano]

Considering certain aspects of your "condition"(your personality as displayed here, for one example), you should probably be the biggest tipping motherfucker on the planet, but to each his/her own.

And yet, I don't, and still receive the quality of service that I seek, thus remaining a satisfied customer. What does that say about YOU?

And also making thinly veiled references to my physical handicap which I discuss in another thread (i.e. "for one example" of my "condition")... classy... VERY classy

And you... are in no postion to judge anybody's personality... much less mine.

Tell me... what is the heating bill like for that glass house that you live in?

Edited December 29, 2013 by Goggles Paesano
typos

[MAG]

And yet, I don't, and still receive the quality of service that I seek, thus remaining a satisfied customer. What does that say about YOU?

And you... are in no postion to judge anybody's personality... much less mine.

Tell me... what is the heating bill like for that glass house that you live in?

LOL

[MrReindeer-9515]

And also making thinly veiled references to my physical handicap which I discuss in another thread (i.e. "for one example" of my "condition")... classy... VERY classy

And you... are in no postion to judge anybody's personality... much less mine.

Just callin em like I see em, never claimed to be...classy(and you failed to mention the "lame" reference, I thought that one was pretty good).

Tell me... what is the heating bill like for that glass house that you live in?

Don't even really know what this means exactly, but the heating bill is low because I use The Solar Light of Truth...

And yet, I don't, and still receive the quality of service that I seek, thus remaining a satisfied customer. What does that say about YOU?

I moved this one to the bottom because I think it nails it quite nicely:

It says nothing about me. I'm glad you get the service you want without tipping, bully for you; but by posting it over and over, it sounds like you've got something to prove. Some guys like to tip, some don't, get over it.

Edited December 29, 2013 by MrReindeer
Science! And adding..

[Jez UaBriain]

Ok, I could have used a better example for discounts. I was in a hurry and that is what popped up in my foggy little brain. But you do get my point. Which is, No one should expect. I repeat, EXPECT, a tip or a discount. If one of those things happens then it is because the opposite party feels like doing it. To EXPECT this each and every time is in poor taste.

I tip, when the service is good. I never ask for a discount anywhere unless it is advertised. And I am not exactly rolling in money so ... but that is another story I will keep to myself.

I expect people to keep to their agreed job description, and as long as they fulfill that to the expectations set before them then its all good. But when ever I had a employee (in a past life;-D ) who went above or beyond the call of their job

description then I almost always gave recognition where due. And some kind of reward. Be it a afternoon off , or fa free lunch..etc.. but people do like to be recognized for their efforts. The same goes for hoe's and bro's.

[MAG]

Some guys like to tip, some don't

True, and I can vouch for Goggles' experiences, because mine are similar. Not all ladies expect a tip -- some even go out of their way to advertise the fact that their fee is "all inclusive".

get over it.

I think you could stand to take some of your own advice.

[Goggles Paesano]

I think you could stand to take some of your own advice.

Well said, av8r. But I suppose we shouldn't judge him too harshly. Obviously we struck a nerve and he's just bitter and jealous. Although, I do find it rather amusing and ironic how he claims that I'm "posting it over and over like I've got something to prove" when he clearly has taken such a strong defensive posture in his posts... over and over... like he's got something to prove. Hmm.

I guess you were right, my friend. Apparently I did hit very close to home.

As for his tacky and classless comments about my physical handicap... well... that just speaks for itself. A testament to the quality (or lack thereof) of his character.