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I never was screened for Denver Players, at least, not that I'm aware of. I gave them my first name and last initial, and I showed up at the incall. I had no callable references, the only girls I'd seen prior were with Wildflowers and that had disbanded. They had me take off my clothes and put them in a closet, in a different room from where the girl was (I still remember her name and exactly how she looked). I was allowed to keep my wallet with me. Then, I got a massage, and then I got full service, and then I was a client. So, no, there was nothing "by the book" about my screening with them. It was rather strange actually (they theorized that a cop would need a recording device, and by getting naked in a different room I'd have to abandon it and I would hesitate and try to keep my clothes near us).

Wow I really laughed out loud at that one You have a point.

It serves the purpose of allowing others to see the discrepancy I discovered, regarding Coral, and verify it themselves, as happened. It serves a purpose, and that purpose is being fulfilled. Others are being informed, and getting an opportunity to reply. I don't work for P411, they don't sign checks to me. It's not my job to tell them when their own service isn't working, when it seems to have been designed to not work. They know. If they don't know, it's because they don't bother making sure their own system works. I discovered this accidentally, yes, but easily. If I were an Admin, I guarantee you I'd have noticed this years ago. I'm interested in 5% of the girls on P411, so it took a while for me to notice. They imply an age verification. They don't say it's just to determine Age of Majority, not on any page during my sign-up process anyway. If you put a sign on a car that say's $5,000, and I give you $5,000, and you hand me the sign and say "congratulations, you now own a $5,000 sign" and drive away in the car, that's misrepresentation. Yes, the sign didn't say "for this car" on it, but, it's implied. Implied representation is a key legal issue, one that many people lose big on. They imply that there is an age verification, and they were unable to determine that a 41 year old wasn't 27. That's a major failure. I stand by the thread, it's serving it's purpose. Whether or not it changes P411, I don't ultimately care. It's more about telling other P411 clients that this is happening. If it were a website error, there would be indications of such (random code showing up, searches taking longer than usual, etc.). There are no other indications, it appears to work fine, it's just designed such that girls that are in their 40's can claim to be in their 20's and nobody notices or cares. To paraphrase your recommendation to me about P411, if you don't want to read this thread, don't. Have a good day.

No, actually it was a combination of: A. My not having much experience outside of Denver Players/Denver Sugar. and B. My fear of a crazy ASP blacklisting me over leaving. I've since learned a lot that could have helped me, and I may react differently now, although I must say the fear of blacklists still influences my reactions to cheats.

If they can't screen girls enough to figure out that a 41 year old who advertises as such isn't 27, they don't really deserve a correspondence from me. They claim to verify girls, they clearly don't, I finally noticed. They can respond or not respond, it doesn't matter, it's how they fix the problem that will keep or lose me. I'll run the search again two weeks from now, and if Coral still shows up, I will no longer recommend P411 to people and I will have to really consider the value of the screening ease of P411 before I renew, because that's the only service they have that interests me anymore.

Well, the use of P411 right now for me is two-fold. 1. Make my life easier as far as finding real girls and proving to them I'm real. 2. Find girls I'm into. That second one is pretty much gone if a girl who is 41 can tell P411 that she's 27 while her own website says "early 40s" and P411 doesn't notice the discrepancy. Sounds like they don't really do anything at all to verify these girls if they don't at least visit their websites or look at any of their prior ads on other internet sites. (Or how about, call pretending to be a client and ask her for her age, that's all it took for me). So, is P411 useless? No, number 1 on that list is still a good use. But, for number 2, finding girls I'm into, I think this rendered it mostly useless. Nobody's on P411 that isn't elsewhere, and if their age is just as phony on P411 as it is anywhere else, I may as well just not search on P411, because the platform otherwise isn't breathtaking (three photos maximum?).

At minimum, I think I'd like to see this provider get a temporary ban, because lying about one's age is one thing, but taking 14 years off of your age on the "legit" site (P411) while leaving your age as 41 on much less legit sites, seems like it should be a break of whatever contract she agreed to when she signed up. If she was 31, that would be different. 41, listed as 27, that's a problem. I may as well trust the ages listed on BP for how accurate P411 appears to be in that regard.

Yes, and the real question becomes, why is P411 willingly misrepresenting the age of a provider that says on her own website that she is over 40? I can't be the first person to notice this. Did anyone who entered her information into the P411 database actually go look at her website? Would appear not. If they don't even verify providers to that level, what use is it, really, as an advertising platform? Just call it a client screening service and do away with the provider section, it's useless as it exists right now.

Yes, I've noticed that also. I didn't try it here with Coral, but I've noticed previously the ability to determine a provider's age with several searches like you mention. It is concerning that it seems that P411 doesn't actually verify their age, and it makes me see much less value in P411 overall. It's still a good screening tool, but, it's represented as though they verified these girls' ages. I have to wonder what this post by The Oxymoron in another recent thread even means, in light of this all: Apparently "age verification images" are not sufficient for age verification. The saddest part of this is that I determined her real age by simply texting her, she didn't lie to me. Why is she lying to P411? Why is she 27 there but "in her early 40's" on her own website? P411 has some explaining to do. This is what my next renewal hinges on, how they explain this and how they fix it.

I use the Advanced Search page with the drop down boxes, I'm not typing any "ands" or "ors" anywhere. Click Advanced Search, use the Age drop downs for 18 and 28 and then multi-select Skinny, Slender, and Athletic. Click Search. Theoretically, a 41 year old should not show up. Yet she does. I'm not interested in learning a bunch of jargon and nonsense. Their search page should work as represented. Providers Age: From 18 to 28 should mean ONLY SHOW PROVIDERS BETWEEN 18 AND 28. Not, throw in a 41 year old because she's slender. That's not what the search function advertises.

And ultimately, my point is that it could have been entirely different. If she had posted as BBW, and used recent pictures, I wouldn't have gone, and she wouldn't have had that experience with me. Instead, someone who is actually into larger women would have called her, and she would have gained self-esteem from someone who is into her body style, instead of losing it because someone into slender girls wasn't into her. There are many guys, even hot guys with amazing bodies, walking around town hand-in-hand with larger women. There are plenty of guys into that specifically, I'm just not that guy. I'm the guy that only called because of the word "slender" and the pictures along with it. That same hour that I ruined her entire day by leaving after 15 minutes with zero attraction to her, she could have spent with someone who loves her curves. Just because I'm not into her doesn't mean others won't be, but first it's important to be honest with yourself regarding who you actually are. I may want to have the upper body of a UFC champion, but I actually have hardly any noticeable muscles above my legs. If I advertise on Match or another dating site as having a martial artist's physique, and a girl responds based on that description and a face picture, and I show up looking how I do, I'm sure I will have a difficult time remaining confident in my body. If I say I'm a trail runner, which I am, and show up looking how I do, I can be confident, not because I look better (or desire upper body muscles any less) but because that girl is now expecting strong leg muscles, and a thin body from lots of cardiovascular exercise, and that's what I have. Could I get the first girl, with some extra effort or charm? Sure, potentially (probably not if she's just into the physique, though), but, the second girl is way better for my self-esteem and ability to project a confident vibe.

The only reason I list self-esteem is from personal experience. I'll give you a quick run-down of what happened. This was over three years ago, and has stuck with me ever since. I don't remember the lady's name, but, she was an established lady who advertised regularly, with pictures. I contacted her, after seeing her ads, which listed her as "slender" and showed pictures of a fairly thin asian girl, maybe 130ish. Not super tiny, but, thin and cute and I was into her. So, I contacted her, she sounded cute, and we booked an appointment. I had been watching this girl's ads for months, and they were very regular. I'd also seen two of her friends, so I knew she was at least real, not a rob or LE. So, I booked, and I planned my day around it, went to Denver, and found a coffee shop near her incall. I worked from there that morning, and then went to meet her. She opened the door, and she was... let's say, not even close to her pictures. She wasn't only not slender, I would easily call her fat. She was very large. She had a large stomach, and butt, and while she looked facially like the pics, there is no way she was less than 180. She definitely weighed more than I do. Well, I tried. I stayed, I kept a smile on, and I really tried. I could not get hard, she is not my type. She tried to give me a handjob, and a blowjob, and neither was working because I'm very visual and I couldn't get past her weight. This was a girl I never would even consider at the bar if she threw herself at me, much less fawn over or want to spend money to be with. She offered to turn on porn, and I declined. She offered to give me a partial refund, and I again declined, because her feelings were obviously very hurt that this cute, 27 year old guy could not get it up and it was obvious why he couldn't. It was obvious that I wasn't into her weight, it's difficult to hide that disappointment. At first I thought she was just the door girl, and when I realized it was her, I double-checked and seemed surprised. There's no way she didn't know it was because of her weight. Well, anyway, I tried to play it off like it was me, not her, and told her to keep the money and I would take off, and she seemed highly offended. Within one week, her ads disappeared, and I've never seen or heard from her again around here. Now, that was just one experience, but I've gotten that same vibe multiple times. Where, a girl lets me in, I see her pooch or her flab or her short hair (when she used pics with long hair), and I'm obviously disappointed. I get that vibe from them, that somehow it hit their self-esteem. That's just my read, but, I think it's accurate. I think self-esteem does have something to do with it, and it's something the ladies don't seem to consider until the sort of thing I listed above happens to them. Trust me, that lady was humiliated and embarrassed of her appearance, and offended by my lack of attraction to her. I almost guarantee her self-esteem suffered from that interaction. I'm sure enough of it that I still think about it, years later.

I understand that language is fluid. We all have our interpretations of what different words mean, and one person's idea of pretty, or most other adjectives, doesn't translate to all other people. A reviewer might say that a girl is super hot, and I show up and think, "she's okay." That's all fine and expected. However, there are certain words that we use in advertising, which we use for their widespread consensus on the meaning of those words, even in a vague way. For a couple examples, "new" and "improved" mean things, even if they are still a bit subjective. A product that has been entirely unchanged for the past ten years cannot simply write New & Improved on the box without changing a single thing in the formula or design. A ten year old product is not new, and an unchanged product is not improved. Now, a changed formula from 18 months ago, does that count as "new"? Perhaps, perhaps not. It is still a vague term, but, there is a general interpretation that "new" would not apply to a ten year old product, and "improved" would not apply to a product that has not been modified somehow. Okay, so now, let's relate this to the adult escort profession. I believe that, while still somewhat vague and subjective, there are some terms that ASPs use directly because of their widespread interpretation. If a provider uses the term "BBW," and I show up to find a 110lb 4'11? girl, obviously, she used the wrong term. Similarly, if a provider uses the term "spinner", and I show up and find a girl who looks like she's 2 months off of pregnancy and still has baby weight, she used the wrong term. That's not a "spinner". That's maybe a former spinner, maybe a future spinner, but not a spinner. How does this relate to the thread title? Well, the thing I'd like the ladies to consider is, which is more important to you? Money, or self-esteem? If I respond to an ad, with creatively shot photos that barely show the stomach, and the ad says "spinner", and I show up and find a girl with a sizable pooch or a bunch of cellulite and flab, chances are, I'll pay and stay, I'll just feel lied to and not return, and probably write a bad review, even if the service itself was great. So, if money is all that is important, then by all means, advertise yourself as a blonde spinner even if you're a 160lb lady with dyed blue hair. When I show up, I'll clearly be disappointed with your appearance, and it will be written all over my face, and you may end up feeling worse about yourself (lower self-esteem) afterward, because one of your youngest, most in-shape clients thought you were "eh." (I'm 31, 175lbs, and a runner, and a music producer). But, if self-esteem is more important, then advertise who you actually are. There are tons of guys into 160lb girls with blue hair (just as a random example, this isn't referring to anyone real). There are guys paying for time with girls in their 50s, there are guys paying for time with BBW girls, and so on. There is room for everyone here. But, if you are 5'5" 145, you can't advertise as a spinner, unless you want me to show up and be obviously disappointed, and irritate me to the point of writing a bad review. That's all, just that basic thought. False advertising is obviously a poor tactic for the long run, and for the girls that are just about how much they'll make tonight (with no regard for reviews or regulars), go ahead and keep doing whatever you want. But, for the ladies that want good reviews and regular clients, don't make me meet you in person to find out you're not a spinner, or you're not really 24, because, it really just hurts YOU in the end. Sure, you make a couple hundred, but you get a bad review and lose a potential customer. There are times I don't just want a cute spinner, but a more full, down home sort of experience, and I may have called you one of those times, except that you already lied to me about your stature or age, and now I won't return. I don't expect to change anyone here, but I wanted to let the ladies know how I feel. Use the word spinner if 90% of people would, right now, consider you a spinner. Not if you used to be before you became pregnant, not if you think 140lbs counts as spinner but most people wouldn't, not if you were a spinner for 24 years and just this year you put on 20 pounds. You're not a spinner, don't use the term. At all. And on the same note, show us your body in your pics. If you have a pooch you aren't proud of, show it anyway. If I have to show up in person to discover it, I'll be clearly disappointed, and you'll probably feel even worse about your body at that point (even though I'm a gentleman and wouldn't actually say anything, it would likely be very obvious regardless). In short, if $200 today is the most important thing, then, by all means, tell me you're a 24 year old spinner, I'll show up and see that you're a 32 year old 140lb lady, I'll begrudgingly pay and stay, and you'll get a crappy review. If good reviews and happy regulars are your goals, don't lie to me about your stature and use ten year old glamor shots, it hurts you in the end. Food for thought. [REDACTED]

I would like to begin by saying, I like P411. I think it's useful as a screening tool, and I'll probably keep subscribing unless it goes up again. If the price increases again, at all, I will definitely drop it. Why? When I started using P411, it had three uses. Now it has one. Yet, it costs almost double what it did when I started. ($129 v $69) Initially, I used it for three things: 1. Finding girls using the Advanced Search who are just my type. 2. Finding girls that aren't on EB for whatever reason, on the P411 Advert Board. 3. Screening and providing references more easily. Now, the first two are gone. Obviously the ad board is gone, but even the Advanced Search is no longer useful. Here's why: My Advanced Search that I've saved on the site specifies two things, age and body style. It is called "18-28 Skinny, Slender, Athletic", and it is supposed to show me girls that are 18-28 with those body styles. It used to work, or so I thought, maybe it never has. I get that some girls don't list their age. But, I always thought that they'd only show up on the list if their real age (whether listed or not) was between 18 and 28. Yesterday, a girl named Coral showed up on this list. I contacted her, asking her age, expecting (from pictures) to be told that she's 27 or 28, and she replied that she's in her forties. It is unacceptable that she shows up on the Advanced Search for 18-28. If she doesn't list her age, she should not appear on any search that specifies age. So, as you can see, P411 no longer has any value as a provider search tool, for me. I'll keep it as a screening tool, but, if it loses any more value, or goes up in cost by even just $1, I'm done and never coming back. Get it together, new P411 owner, whoever you are, or you'll lose all of your clients. P411 isn't that unique, and the second that Date Check is cheaper and in use by local escorts, or one of the others, I'm gone unless you add some value to your site, and soon. At minimum, please fix the Advanced Search so that it actually works as represented, by which I mean, don't show me girls 29 and up if I search for 18-28. Including them anyway is a poorly thought out move. If they don't list their age, I don't want to see them, so why show them to me? Any girl that's ashamed to list her age is too old for me to book with, that is my personal preference. I use P411 Advanced Search instead of BP or RedBook or EscortPhotos because of that extra level of control over my searches. If it doesn't work, I won't be back to use it again. Thanks for reading. [REDACTED]

I imagine it's fake, but a lady who I was considering seeing is on this site. She is also on P411, but her P411 account has zero pictures. I figured I'd run it by you all and get reactions before I book anything. She responded and seems legit but, can't be too safe. Hopefully this is all within board rules to ask and post. Again, I'm not trying to spread fear or harm this provider's rep in any way, I'm guessing the site is fake from how it is structured (apparently a Friend Finder funded site) but, doesn't hurt to ask if anyone has reason to believe or refute it.