Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Prayforrain

Sex work decriminalization, legalization, regulation, and ethics

39 posts in this topic

Was just thinking about my bad issue with a provider, and looking back on a variety of posts from clients and providers regarding the work/intimacy/relationships thing.  I think that sex work has been loosely compared to counseling, therapy, client/attorney privileges, doctor/patient, teacher/student, and other important relationships.  If sex work took on the same type of importance, shouldn’t there be some code of ethical conduct that sex workers should follow? And some form of governing board that establishes appropriate conduct for being a sex worker? Among many protections and requirements, one rule would be to not take advantage of clients, or to refrain from entering into “emotionally intimate” involvement with clients such that would lead to reasonable clients believing there was a “real” relationship and performing actions under such pretense.  This is what resulted in my disappointment, frustration, anger, and hurt. She had told me she loved me, and we carried on in many ways like a relationship would; however, unfortunately there were many other men she seemed to be leading one - one of them I even encountered and she is likely still fleecing him.

Would you agree that it is wrong for providers to manipulate clients this way?  Don’t need to hear the obverse because I do believe it is wrong for clients to also manipulate (or try to manipulate) providers.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you talking about legalization, with government regulations, standards, and licensing?

Or are talking about decriminalizing the sex trade?  It could then be self-regulating with a standards body like the Better Business Bureau or the ASME.

But if you think about it, we sort of have that here in our little TOB community.  There are standards of behavior to which we(M&F) adhere.  Don’t ‘no show’ for example.  Failure to follow these standards may lead to being ostracized.  But when you step outside our community, it becomes the Wild Wild West all over again.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Prayforrain said:

 one rule would be to not take advantage of clients, or to refrain from entering into “emotionally intimate” involvement with clients such that would lead to reasonable clients believing there was a “real” relationship and performing actions under such pretense.  This is what resulted in my disappointment, frustration, anger, and hurt. She had told me she loved me, and we carried on in many ways like a relationship would; however, unfortunately there were many other men she seemed to be leading one - one of them I even encountered and she is likely still fleecing him.

9 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

 

But if you think about it, we sort of have that here in our little TOB community.  There are standards of behavior to which we(M&F) adhere.  

 

Standards of behavior that are adhered to?  Best laugh I have had in days!!  I applaud this board for what it is, but regarding the behavior the OP references (con artist taking advantage of the gullible and kind hearted) this board FACILITATES more than prevents that behavior for those that are expert at the con.  Legalization would do precious little to stop it either

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we consider the importance of the services sex workers provide - emotional (and mental?) well-being, physical benefits, education on intimacy and sexual technique - the career could be on the same professional levels as those previously mentioned roles. As such, having a psychology, counseling or medical degree, or a separate career path of being a luxury provider could have a business or arts degree to allow for more social intercourse.  But the governing body would allow for verification of a providers creds and a continued growth in the profession, and even allow for legalized houses and more business opportunities and legitimate retirement plans.

Self-regulation has its benefits and drawbacks.  While it makes for good community, clique-ish behavior and ostracism are really prevalent, and there are only arbitrary, loosely interpreted behaviors. For a local, small group it might work but I think the community will cannibalize itself. In the larger context, at a state or national level, legalization, governance, and regulation would be beneficial.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, gr8owl said:

Standards of behavior that are adhered to?  Best laugh I have had in days!!  I applaud this board for what it is, but regarding the behavior the OP references (con artist taking advantage of the gullible and kind hearted) this board FACILITATES more than prevents that behavior for those that are expert at the con.  Legalization would do precious little to stop it either

 Interestingly I agree with you regarding the OP’s specific complaint.  By fostering friendships (of a sort) this board could lead on into a succubus situation.  But I think you’ll agree that there are a number of behaviors (good & bad) codified in board discussions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is where having a governance board (better then BBB) would be useful. Right now we can sue doctors and lawyers and file complaints agains the respective boards and associations for same and counselors, teachers, etc.  Similarly, sex professionals could be more empowered to decide who their clients are without the guys making some weird threat of a bad review; also, the professionals could work together to establish fair business practices within the profession. The governing bodies (no pun intended) would establish the Code of Conduct and associated penalties for not adhering to the Code.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Prayforrain said:

 Among many protections and requirements, one rule would be to not take advantage of clients, or to refrain from entering into “emotionally intimate” involvement with clients such that would lead to reasonable clients believing there was a “real” relationship and performing actions under such pretense.  This is what resulted in my disappointment, frustration, anger, and hurt. She had told me she loved me, and we carried on in many ways like a relationship would; however, unfortunately there were many other men she seemed to be leading one - one of them I even encountered and she is likely still fleecing him.

Well, well, well, welcome to the brotherhood.  Forget about the first time you got laid, the day you pop your real cherry is the day when you fall for a provider.  Happens to a lot of us, and it is not the fault of the lady.  We hire them to be really good actresses, and some are so good that we actually believe that this gorgeous, young, sexy woman really does care about our homely old selves.  That fact that we want to believe them certainly exacerbates the situation.  And then, one day, you slam into a brick wall of reality and realize, ".... she didn't really care about me, it was all a business transaction."  Aw shucks, broken heart, boo-hoo, back to cold old reality.  Been there, more than once (but no more), I feel for you.  But that's what happens when you hire a great actress and forget that she is an actress.

Don't worry, you will recover, you will move on.  If you are lucky, you can look back and smile at how happy you were for a few days, and learn to thank her for that gift of delusion and happiness.

BTW, this is not a criticism of the ladies, not in the least, they are wonderful, and tremendous actresses.  Just remember that you are on a stage.

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is very unfortunate and of course providers should not manipulate client's but look at it from this point of view: You go to a restaurant let's say "Hooters". Now the servers there want really good tips, so what are they going to do to get them? They are going to flirt with you, check on you often, maybe even touch your arm ever so slightly. They want to make you feel special. Now it may work or it may not, but you as a patron of the restaurant know when you leave are more than likely aware that nothing will go beyond the restaurant. As a client seeing a provider you need to go prepared with that exact same mentality, and do not let a provider manipulate you into thinking otherwise. Again I am sorry that it happened to you, but as others have said there are a lot of con artists out there both clients and providers who will do anything to make or save a dollar.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BadBoy said:

Well, well, well, welcome to the brotherhood.  Forget about the first time you got laid, the day you pop your real cherry is the day when you fall for a provider.  Happens to a lot of us, and it is not the fault of the lady.  We hire them to be really good actresses, and some are so good that we actually believe that this gorgeous, young, sexy woman really does care about our homely old selves.  That fact that we want to believe them certainly exacerbates the situation.  And then, one day, you slam into a brick wall of reality and realize, ".... she didn't really care about me, it was all a business transaction."  Aw shucks, broken heart, boo-hoo, back to cold old reality.  Been there, more than once (but no more), I feel for you.  But that's what happens when you hire a great actress and forget that she is an actress.

Don't worry, you will recover, you will move on.  If you are lucky, you can look back and smile at how happy you were for a few days, and learn to thank her for that gift of delusion and happiness.

BTW, this is not a criticism of the ladies, not in the least, they are wonderful, and tremendous actresses.  Just remember that you are on a stage.

I couldn't have said it any better. You are right on with the point that you make here!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, BadBoy said:

Well, well, well, welcome to the brotherhood.  Forget about the first time you got laid, the day you pop your real cherry is the day when you fall for a provider.  Happens to a lot of us, and it is not the fault of the lady.  We hire them to be really good actresses, and some are so good that we actually believe that this gorgeous, young, sexy woman really does care about our homely old selves.  That fact that we want to believe them certainly exacerbates the situation.  And then, one day, you slam into a brick wall of reality and realize, ".... she didn't really care about me, it was all a business transaction."  Aw shucks, broken heart, boo-hoo, back to cold old reality.  Been there, more than once (but no more), I feel for you.  But that's what happens when you hire a great actress and forget that she is an actress.

Don't worry, you will recover, you will move on.  If you are lucky, you can look back and smile at how happy you were for a few days, and learn to thank her for that gift of delusion and happiness.

BTW, this is not a criticism of the ladies, not in the least, they are wonderful, and tremendous actresses.  Just remember that you are on a stage.

All very good points.  But having nothing to do with the willful and expert con jobs that occasionally happen outside the confines of sessions and that relieve some guys of major sums of money, not ust hourly chump change.  I believe that is what OP is talking about and I assure you it is a completely different interaction.  Not a surprising reaction so far given the reception I got when bringing up this topic many years ago and simply posing the question of how common it is.    

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic.  I know what I am looking for from this hobby, and it is not a romantic relationship or relationship of the heart.  This is an outlet for my urges for companionship of the horizontal variety.  I'm older, single and not looking for a "relationship".  At the same time, I am one of those folks who enjoys some sort of connection.  I have made some very friendly relationships with some folks from our community...some have become friends.  Fortunately, with those friends, we've got some reasonable boundaries and so far, none have been crossed, on either side.  I'm generally not looking to just get my rocks off, but have some genuine fun that includes the former.  This is a business, but for me, it is also supposed to be consenting adults enjoying themselves (I know I've said this a few times), with out "strings attached" or "relationship" goals, on either side.  Respect with genuine "non-romantic" caring is something I value highly.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, gr8owl said:

Not a surprising reaction so far given the reception I got when bringing up this topic many years ago and simply posing the question of how common it is.    

I've never experienced this. Maybe I don't seem a good mark, or I'm not wealthy enough! 30 years of playing, and no con jobs...I'm missin' out!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, pfunk said:

I've never experienced this. Maybe I don't seem a good mark, or I'm not wealthy enough! 30 years of playing, and no con jobs...I'm missin' out!

red: would you like her contact info?  Though she is retired or way UTR I am sure she is still running con games of some type - appeared to be her calling. And she was very good - even better at conning B)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add me to the list of guys who were taken.   She took advantage of me plain and simple. I was under no delusion  she was looking for a relationship. Though her journal suggests she was considering it,  if I would have shelled out more (it was left behind). She was in need of a new name,  to hide her past from being googled.  She had been in the business but I never paid to play with her. Though I  paid for everything else. So looking back at how much I  paid out compared to what I got in return, I will never complain about a girls  rates.  We all have to be burnt at one time, otherwise we would not fear fire. The world is full of people like this and there isn't a thing we can do.  It might not be ethical but in the eyes of the law, these girls are given things. They don't steal them.  Just be more careful next time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, gr8owl said:

red: would you like her contact info?  

Image result for meme oh hell no

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The siren's song of the "Love Pussy" luring men into the sea of financial doom is HARDLY limited to women in THIS biz. Goes on everyday, everywhere, and has forever. I mean GET REAL...most of the ladies here are straight shooters, but consider: Where are you MORE likely to run into the Love Pussy con for your dough.....a hooker sites...or Safeway?  These boards AIN'T "Match.com".....you come here with your heart open instead of your fly...you are really just asking for it.......and there's going to be more ladies to "provide it" on these boards than in the general population.  In short...don't be Flounder....

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I was driving up to the chalet this afternoon, Mel Tillis sang the perfect song for this conversation.

7 hours ago, gr8owl said:

red: would you like her contact info?  Though she is retired or way UTR I am sure she is still running con games of some type - appeared to be her calling. And she was very good - even better at conning B)

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Admiral C said:

The siren's song of the "Love Pussy" luring men into the sea of financial doom is HARDLY limited to women in THIS biz. Goes on everyday, everywhere, and has forever. I mean GET REAL...most of the ladies here are straight shooters, but consider: Where are you MORE likely to run into the Love Pussy con for your dough.....a hooker sites...or Safeway?  These boards AIN'T "Match.com".....you come here with your heart open instead of your fly...you are really just asking for it.......and there's going to be more ladies to "provide it" on these boards than in the general population.  In short...don't be Flounder....

 

There it is again ..... the urge to watch "Return of the Archons"  Strange.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really didn’t intend for the discussion to go in the direction it did. Whatever happened with my sorry ass is what it is.  

What it got me thinking about, is the legitimization of sex work. If sex workers want decriminalization, it seems like they would need to set up legitimate businesses.  As a profession, would sex work be a skilled trade or a profession, or something else? Should it require ethical requirements and legal protections from any form of injury (physical, financial, etc.)? Would the business of escorting fall into a grey area like the cannabis industry, where certain credit cards can’t be used, etc.? Or could it be fully legit with all the benefits provided by other businesses, but also the same professional standards and codes of conduct to prevent complicated issues from arising?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. Cannabis is in the gray area because it is against Federal Law. Banks and other financial institutions fear a charge of money laundering or something like that.

I think it would fall under a profession.  Not a skilled trade because  everyone  or just about everyone has sex.  Not like the skill to weld high pressure vessels or cool an indoor arena. Yes, the girls have to be part saleswoman, psychologist and have the fortitude to see us. Which are different skills then a skilled trade is usually defined.

It  would be licensed  like every other profession.  The government needs the taxes. It isn't against Fed. law. They have left it to the states. Human trafficking has Federal laws and the Mann Act is concerned with  interstate prostitution. It has been regulated through the centuries by different  governments or local units around the world.  Monthly heath checks, age restrictions, drug screening and maybe a yearly  psychological  evaluation.

As for protections, I think the existing laws would work the same against them as any other profession.  They might make a few new ones.  Because it is behind closed doors, there would be no evidence to back up a charge. Then the girls might have to have surveillance,   like any other business. That would be a damper to business.

Lastly you have all the religious folks. They would fight tooth and nail to stop it. Wives would want to keep a closer watch on the hubby.  There will always be ones who will see girls.but not take care of their family or other financial obligations . Girls who will take advantage of guys. This happens outside the hobby too and hasn't been totally stopped.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn’t mean for this to turn into a poor me thread.

After my own experience, I just wonder if sex workers should have a code of conduct just like any other legitimate profession.  The code of conduct should include requirements such as not manipulating or playing with emotions of clients; being honest about age, looks, services;                                                               disclosing any health/std/sti issues; always using protection; getting checked for health issues regularly ; paying taxes/establishing a legitimate business; establishing and consistently enforcing  ground rules for the provider/client relationships, and things of this nature.  I don’t believe these rules are really codified anywhere right now.  There are some common expectations but I think that there are still too many inconsistencies that allow too many issues to happen.  

I think we already have a good idea of the different rules placed on clients but as I mentioned, I think providers should provide these clear expectations before entering into a working relationship with a client. I think of it as something similar to seeing a therapist. Rules, contracts, etc.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I follow a different code of conduct which emphasizes personal responsibility.  I try to be neat, clean, punctual, and respectful.  I bring my own protection and guard my own heart. I do NOT want any government agency supervising my personal relationships!!!

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit, I think we all have some sort of conduct and behaviors but if the business of escorting is to be legitimized, shouldn’t there be codified ethics, much like other professionals are supposed to adhere to? And should t there be a form of regulating body to prevent or address those abuses? Self-regulation has its benefits of keeping the government from interfering but there are strong benefits to regulating bodies (no pun intended) also. 

http://theconversation.com/volkswagen-scandal-puts-capitalisms-model-of-self-regulation-to-the-test-48442

There are a lot of stories of the government messing things up (government cheese, anyone?) but I’d accept some of that in order to have the consumer protections. I don’t see any liberties that would be given up by the ladies or gentlemen in order to have protection afforded to both parties by a firm of regulation.

In any case, deception and fraud is real and from what some responses here indicate, happens more than we care to admit. Casual flirtation of a restaurant worker for a better tip is harmless because the customer is bound to the price of the food and the emotional connection is very limited. Dancers, much the same. In this business, those lines get blurred. Clients tend to be at a slight disadvantage, because many clients are often looking for more than just sexual gratification. So those doors are open, even a little bit. Sex workers know why they’re in the business and I have seen ladies who provide exceptional service, to the point where I have forgotten everything and everyone else during a session, but the boundaries are still defined by the provider through communication and physical limits. BTW, how many gentlemen receive special benefits? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There’s an old saying, “You can’t con an honest man.”

I have no doubt that legalization would(will?) bring regulations, most involving health and advertising controls.  If you were truly conned according to existing laws, better take it to the bunko squad.  But if you expect Nanny to protect you from making a fool of yourself, please visit the chaplain and get you TS card punched.  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

There’s an old saying, “You can’t con an honest man.

I have no doubt that legalization would(will?) bring regulations, most involving health and advertising controls.  If you were truly conned according to existing laws, better take it to the bunko squad.  But if you expect Nanny to protect you from making a fool of yourself, please visit the chaplain and get you TS card punched.  

red - pure unadulterated bullshit, but thanks for calling me dishonest. B)  Some old sayings are pure crap - this is one.

blue - Surely you are aware that existing laws would consider being conned by someone you considered yourself to be romantically involved with - escort or so called real world, either one - to be simply "gifts" and absolutely nothing to be done.  Unless they carry it to selling you non-existent real estate, etc. Quid pro quo for romance/sex, legally no such thing as conned - you gifted.  So this is totally useless advice and also rather insulting.

All that said, I agree that the last thing I need is the feds sticking their bureaucratic noses into who, how, where and when according to some "code" regarding  my getting laid.  Red tape and bullshit would ensue like everything else the feds touch.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Prayforrain said:

And should t there be a form of regulating body to prevent or address those abuses? Self-regulation has its benefits of keeping the government from interfering but there are strong benefits to regulating bodies 

Fabulous. I vote you're in charge. Please submit your draft operations manual at our next meeting. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gr8owl said:

red - pure unadulterated bullshit, but thanks for calling me dishonest. B)  Some old sayings are pure crap - this is one.

blue - Surely you are aware that existing laws would consider being conned by someone you considered yourself to be romantically involved with - escort or so called real world, either one - to be simply "gifts" and absolutely nothing to be done.  .

RED:

The essence of the saying is that for a successful con, the mark needs to feel he is getting something below fair market value.

You are but one of many, myself included but not severely, who have been fleeced of cash on the promise of romance. With hormones involved, the rational brain seems to shut down.

BLUE:

Yes, I am fully aware that the bunko squad would laugh us out of their office.  And that this happens in the RW, to both men & women.

But we both agree that the last thing we need is the government getting involved in our romantic affairs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to comment on this thread but I fear there is no polite way for me to say what I’m thinking 😅

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, jasminewaterss7 said:

I want to comment on this thread but I fear there is no polite way for me to say what I’m thinking 😅

What’s on your mind?  As long as you refrain from personal insults, we’re a fairly open minded crowd.  Don’t mind the spat between Gr8owl & myself; we’re old adversaries used to sparring about our ideas.

Besides a woman’s perspective on the topic is just as valid as the men’s.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 11:26 PM, Prayforrain said:

 This is what resulted in my disappointment, frustration, anger, and hurt. She had told me she loved me, and we carried on in many ways like a relationship would; however, unfortunately there were many other men she seemed to be leading one - one of them I even encountered and she is likely still fleecing him.

Dude, give it up!  You got fleeced by a gal, OK, get over it.  Clearly you are not listening to what folks are saying: it happens a bit here, and it happens all the time in the real world, and your supposed solution wouldn't help in that real-world regard one little bit.

We don't want a government agency to be formed simply to protect you from your own dick, that's your job.  What you lost to her is the tuition you paid for the education in the school of life.  Move the fuck on!

Been there myself, done it myself, even have the t-shirt, we have a small amount of sympathy for you, but from this point on it's just

OI6P5W0.gif

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0