Posted June 22, 2019 You should print out jj254-1's advice and follow it to the t. It's one of the best pieces of counsel I've read on this board. Turn the page. Move on. Get your shit together. Figure out what you want to rescue from the burning house that is your marriage. She betrayed you. No amount of counseling and conversations will change that. If you can accept that, forgive her completely, and trust her from now on, then, yeah, sure. Stay with her. Let the Vatican know, too, because you will be in line for sainthood. You could try marital counseling. In my experience, that usually amounts to the female therapist and the female spouse agreeing that the male in the relationship has issues that he needs to work on. It's also expensive, takes a lot of time and work, and generally only delays the inevitable break up. Again, that's based purely on my observation of the many couples I've known who've gone through it. It could be different for you. (On the other hand, one--on-one therapy with a good mental health professional can be totally worth it.) Forget about taking revenge. It's sweet, I know. But you want to get out clean, stay in your kids' lives, and move on. Plotting or taking revenge will destroy that, burn up your headspace, and eat you alive. And that's if everything goes well. Without knowing the details, you're almost certainly dealing with a complex situation that you can't game out accurately. People are unpredictable. And perhaps I've watched one too many true crime shows, but the situation can degrade quickly. Also, watch the booze. When you're grieving and angry, throwing alcohol in the mix will only make things worse. At best, it promotes melodrama and weight gain. At worst, you'll be acting like a bozo and you could even pick up a bad habit that will alienate your children. So, put your stuff in line. Act like a responsible, mature, and solid man. Get out as neatly and quickly as you can. That way, you be more likely to preserve your relationship with your children. And move on to a better chapter in your life. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 22, 2019 Pretty sure Ann Landers AIN'T a member, so I'll have a lash. Men often hunt\collect pieces of ass, often with heart attachments. Women often hunt\collect pieces of heart often with dick attachments. It is not different AT ALL! Of course, people often convince themselves that one is better than the other...but that is 100% concentrated bullshit. It's a real, real, simple equation: You and her are fucking around on each other....You can either live with it, or you can't...that's the whole story. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 23, 2019 Honesty in this situation is just gas on the fire to me. They both are equally at fault. If she doesn't know of his extra caricular activities, she will now. This will justify her affair. I say affair because women are emotional. She didn't go out and just pick up a different guy every time, like we pick out girls. She picked this guy, for what sounds like many repeat visits. She has bonded with him and it makes getting back into her old situation difficult. The trust issue is lost. Once that is gone , it is almost impossible to get back. Each will always wonder where the other is and what they are doing. I never hobbied when I had someone. A relationship takes work. I would bitch about what I had to do to keep it but I loved the one I was with. Though the hobby is great, it is a poor substitution for all the lonely nights. Unless you have very deep pockets. Even if he wasn't here, the situation would probably have been the same. So jaxon71, you better start now if you want to save your marriage or if you want to end it. There is no gray area here. Don't let it drag out, she will only get more attached to the other guy , with the additional time. Then you have lost her. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/20/2019 at 0:24 AM, Hunter VanDyke said: My thoughts are what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Unless you two have previously discussed and agreed that it's okay for you to see escorts on the side, it is in fact cheating on your wife. She is not meeting certain needs, and you are getting those needs met elsewhere. You are also not meeting certain needs, so she is getting those needs met elsewhere. Maybe consider an open marriage, or coming clean about what you're doing, and what you know she is doing, and see if the marriage can be saved, if she even wants that. On a side note...Burning peoples worlds down, stalkerish, harrassing, outing, behavior never ends well, can be devastating to innocent people, and only reflects poorly on the person doing it. I agree with Hunter. If you love your wife and want to reconcile, come clean. And ask her to do the same. Do not be judgmental however hard it may seem to be in the moment. It seems that you both are not getting what you want out of your relationship for unknown reasons. I've been around the block a couple of hundred times on many subjects like this. Trust me here. Don't be judgmental of your wife, unless you are ready to pull the "divorce" pin. You stated that you are not an angel yourself. I hope everything works out for you. Remember healing is a process, it sounds like BS but it is a fact. Good Luck Bro! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 8:35 PM, Don John said: She betrayed you. Are men really so entitled they get mad when they find out the partner they’ve been lying to seeks happiness elsewhere? Sorry but sounds like karma to me. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) It's over dude, move on. Upon reflection in my past relationships and this happening to several friends (male and female) once someone cheats it's (their) done. Some very good advice on this thread as well. Plus.....well lets be honest you're banging escorts and a lot of people would call that karma. And before anyone says anything about my situation....I'm single. Edited June 23, 2019 by contrails 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2019 I want to take another tack away from the gloom and doom scenarios. Marriages work because the partners follow the rules. By default that includes no cheating. But that's not the only way to set the rules, and the rules are allowed to change. And there are enough marriages that make allowances for side dalliances. That's how royalty has been doing it for thousands of years, and damnit don't we deserve to be treated like royalty? I mean, yeah a hard conversation is required. And you both need to decide if you're the kind of couple that will allow it to continue, and how it will be allowed. What the limits are. One I heard a couple used was no side relationship over 3 months, they had to wrap up by then, and they found it to be perfect. One of the reasons marriages fail is because of, well, exhaustion. I think that often by allowing short term breaks that things can still work out well long term if you're both willing. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2019 I’m going to throw a wrinkle out here! Marriage is not about sex & romance. It’s about property rights and providing for legitimate offspring. That’s the part the courts will enforce. On the other hand, marriage can be a partnership, with the adults caring about & for each other. If her well being & happiness are more important to you than your pride, just grind off the horns and continue as if nothing happened. Or perhaps have a confessional conversation and see if she feels the same way. Perhaps you can work something out that gives you both some freedom, yet retains the essential relationship. Something that’s fair to both the goose & the gander. But if your pride is paramount, cut your losses and run. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, mountainrider33 said: Instead of entitled I'd call it cognitive dissonance. I think entitled isn't right either. In reality, he understands what he's been doing himself: Meeting women to have sex, but the emotional attachment ranges from basically zilch to "friends with benefits" level, stopping short of actual emotional attachment. A good many of the men here probably are in that range and can logically separate their sex lives from their lives with their spouse because of incompatibility issues when it comes to the bedroom. What he doesn't fully know the scope of is his wife's affair and why. That's kind of the issue. He says it is emotional too, which brings it to a "more cheating" level I guess? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, FuriousWeasel said: I think entitled isn't right either. In reality, he understands what he's been doing himself: Meeting women to have sex, but the emotional attachment ranges from basically zilch to "friends with benefits" level, stopping short of actual emotional attachment. A good many of the men here probably are in that range and can logically separate their sex lives from their lives with their spouse because of incompatibility issues when it comes to the bedroom. What he doesn't fully know the scope of is his wife's affair and why. That's kind of the issue. He says it is emotional too, which brings it to a "more cheating" level I guess? Not to adopt an attitude here, but banging someone outside your marriage without emotional attachment is somehow less egregious than banging someone outside the marriage with emotional attachment? Seems like sketchy, self-serving bad justification, and splitting hairs. Either one significantly dishonors your spouse and shatters trust. I didn't hobby when I was married. Doesn't make me better than anyone, just establishes context..... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, sb1212 said: but banging someone outside your marriage without emotional attachment is somehow less egregious than banging someone outside the marriage with emotional attachment? Seems like sketchy, self-serving bad justification, and splitting hairs. Either one significantly dishonors your spouse and shatters trust. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Bit Banger said: I’m going to throw a wrinkle out here! Marriage is not about sex & romance. It’s about property rights and providing for legitimate offspring. That’s the part the courts will enforce. In the case of this thread, marriage is about the Pot calling the Kettle black while trying to convince everyone (including himself) that it's own color ins't. Hell now that I know you can hobby without cheating on your wife I just might get married again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, boink36 said: Hell now that I know you can hobby without cheating on your wife I just might get married again. Me too!! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, boink36 said: In the case of this thread, marriage is about the Pot calling the Kettle black while trying to convince everyone (including himself) that it's own color ins't. Hell now that I know you can hobby without cheating on your wife I just might get married again. It all depends on the agreement between you & your wife. The State really has nothing to do with it. If you agree that you are free to roam, go for it. It’s what you do behind each other’s back (w/o consent) that is cheating. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Bit Banger said: ... Marriage is not about sex & romance. It’s about property rights and providing for legitimate offspring. That’s the part the courts will enforce. ... Arg, caught in a word trap. What I described is actually a civil union, a partnership sanctioned by The State. Marriage is really whatever your church says it is. For many years the two have been conflated. And a partnership is whatever the members agree is relevant. For example, in my previous union my wife & I never included a sexual fidelity clause. By the time we got legally hitched, cancer had mostly destroyed our(her) sex life. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Bit Banger said: It all depends on the agreement between you & your wife. The State really has nothing to do with it. If you agree that you are free to roam, go for it. It’s what you do behind each other’s back (w/o consent) that is cheating. The bolded part is the crux of the argument and where the OP and so many others fall apart when it comes to whether or not it’s cheating because in most cases there is a one sided, very internal conversation that happens and the partner is never involved. Period. I agree with you 100% that if you and your partner agrees then it’s open season all day. But again that is very different. It’s also wild to me how many say it’s now over for his marriage. Like the wife getting her back blown out is suddenly where the marriage fell apart while discounting at least 6 known years of continued escorts while also trying to find ones within walking distance to his house and work. But oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At this point that’s about all you can do. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/19/2019 at 8:52 PM, jaxon71 said: Ok, so I haven’t been the most faithful man in the world, but I have always made sure that my wife and kids were taken care of on a physical and an emotional level. Hobbying has just been a release for me from the stresses of every day life. 1/2 and hour here, an hour there.....So what do you do when you find out without a doubt that your wife is having both an emotional and physical affair with another man. I know everything there is to know about the guy, and I could burn his world down, but I truly want to work things out with my wife....Thoughts....Go... Hoping things are working out for the best with you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 12 hours ago, JoDoe27 said: It’s also wild to me how many say it’s now over for his marriage. Like the wife getting her back blown out is suddenly where the marriage fell apart while discounting at least 6 known years of continued escorts while also trying to find ones within walking distance to his house and work. But oh well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ At this point that’s about all you can do. How did you come up with 6yrs and walking distance? Just curious to know. As far as the marriage goes, anything can happen. In most cases though, when a guy sees escorts, he isn't looking to find another life partner. If he wanted to find someone else, he would have been on a dating site. When a woman seeks another man's attention on a constant basis, she is basically dating him. If he has all that she thinks is important to her, then her leaving is usually the result. I have seen this happen too both men and women alike. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) Hypothetically, if you want to stir up a forum for this hobby. Post some shit like that! Kudos. Edited June 25, 2019 by Elle Blake Sp 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alex Majors said: How did you come up with 6yrs and walking distance? Just curious to know. As far as the marriage goes, anything can happen. In most cases though, when a guy sees escorts, he isn't looking to find another life partner. If he wanted to find someone else, he would have been on a dating site. When a woman seeks another man's attention on a constant basis, she is basically dating him. If he has all that she thinks is important to her, then her leaving is usually the result. I have seen this happen too both men and women alike. Click his name and you’ll see his reviews. Look at his forum stats and the few posts he’s made have pretty much all been looking for providers that fit the bill for location convenience. As for the difference between men and women and what they look for; I’m trying not to blanket that one too much. And really does it matter? At the simplest needs were not being met by either. He thought it was one sided and also thought he was providing her with everything she needed. Turns out not to be the on her emotional needs or beating it up to her satisfaction. So yeah, needs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 20 hours ago, sb1212 said: Not to adopt an attitude here, but banging someone outside your marriage without emotional attachment is somehow less egregious than banging someone outside the marriage with emotional attachment? Seems like sketchy, self-serving bad justification, and splitting hairs. Either one significantly dishonors your spouse and shatters trust. I didn't hobby when I was married. Doesn't make me better than anyone, just establishes context..... Simple - if you have to hide it (or feel like you do) from SO .... yep, it is cheating. "No emotional attachment", "just sex", etc are just lame justifications and excuses. If you have discussed with SO and agreed upon a non monogamous relationship and keep to the terms you agreed upon ...... nope, not cheating - and nobody's concern outside the two of you! That said, it is not for me to try to dictate to someone else whether cheating is morally acceptable, that is an individual determination. To me, for me it is unacceptable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 15 hours ago, Bit Banger said: It all depends on the agreement between you & your wife. The State really has nothing to do with it. If you agree that you are free to roam, go for it. It’s what you do behind each other’s back (w/o consent) that is cheating. bingo!! With caveat that if it aint in writing you may later run afoul of "alienation of affection" and adultery laws in many states if the SO has a change of heart! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Alex Majors said: How did you come up with 6yrs and walking distance? Just curious to know. As far as the marriage goes, anything can happen. In most cases though, when a guy sees escorts, he isn't looking to find another life partner. If he wanted to find someone else, he would have been on a dating site. When a woman seeks another man's attention on a constant basis, she is basically dating him. If he has all that she thinks is important to her, then her leaving is usually the result. I have seen this happen too both men and women alike. Profile and reviews....a little research 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 Am I the only one happy she's getting her needs met somewhere with someone? If we had a TOB for ladies aka Candy Store, she could have her pick of whatever her appetite desires! Mmmm....Get in where you fit in girl! Life's too short! 😁 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Hunter VanDyke said: If we had a TOB for ladies aka Candy Store, she could have her pick of whatever her appetite desires! Mmmm...! 😁 Be careful of what you wish for. If a lonely wifes club existed, maybe it does a little. Then some of the guys here, might be helping out some of these ladies for free. I am sure we all aren't that bad. Not speaking for myself. I close my eyes when I shave, to keep from seeing my reflection. Why pay for the milk when you can get it for free. 1 hour ago, Hunter VanDyke said: Am I the only one happy she's getting her needs met somewhere with someone? ..Get in where you fit in girl! Life's too short! 😁 It really wasn't the point of the thread but I think she has happily been getting them met. You are right, life is short and there is no promise you will be here tomorrow. Why be miserable. They have both made poor decisions at some point. Neither is less guilty. The children will be the ones who will bear the brunt, if there is a break-up. Split holidays, moving from home to home every weekend, birthday parties where one parent isn't exactly welcome, less money for college due to two homes, one forgetting school events, etc, etc. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Hunter VanDyke said: Am I the only one happy she's getting her needs met somewhere with someone? Probably not. But I would be much happier if OP reports back he and wife had a real conversation and decided upon a mutually acceptable arrangement where they both fuck like mink* and are happy about it. Not two people headed for a train wreck. *notice I am not saying with WHO 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, gr8owl said: Probably not. But I would be much happier if OP reports back he and wife had a real conversation and decided upon a mutually acceptable arrangement where they both fuck like mink* and are happy about it. Not two people headed for a train wreck. *notice I am not saying with WHO Bravo! 👏👏👏 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2019 I'm not normally a creeper on profiles, but I'm very interested to know the ages of commentators of this thread. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
