Patriots owner Robert Kraft busted

[Just Another Guy]

23 minutes ago, gr8owl said:

I understand, getting the LEGAL right to do so was cake given the fact that numerous clients flipped immediately during made up traffic stops.  My POINT was how do you physically come in and install cameras without the management and employees noticing?  Unless your tech masquerades as a client and even then it would be damn hard in the front lobby!! In my opinion, not happening and management (or owner of building) would have to know, making this really fishy.  "Wiretapping" was easy when everything was by wire!!  Could be done anywhere down line.

Unless the place is open 24/7 (I have no idea in this case), there is nothing to stop the LEO's from "breaking in" and planting any number of devices wherever they want, with a court order.  

If the place was using wireless cameras, they could have been hacked, or the manufacturer could have provided the LEO's with a "backdoor" into the wireless cameras, and used whatever the business already had in place. 

But, to assume that management or the owner had to be in on it, is not correct. They may have been (who knows...), but it wouldn't be necessary by any means.

[parkercole]

On 2/23/2019 at 0:36 AM, amcbl1 said:

Another pic of her:

 

wait-what????? I guess it's his model like physique, charm, and or brilliant mind that suckered her?

DAMN she is stunning!!!!!! 

wish I was a billionaire……..

Edited February 24, 2019 by parkercole
let it rain suckers.......

[gr8owl]

20 hours ago, Just Another Guy said:

Unless the place is open 24/7 (I have no idea in this case), there is nothing to stop the LEO's from "breaking in" and planting any number of devices wherever they want, with a court order.  If you read the whole document, the ladies dong the massages lived there.  Someone there 24/7

If the place was using wireless cameras, they could have been hacked, or the manufacturer could have provided the LEO's with a "backdoor" into the wireless cameras, and used whatever the business already had in place. Most manufacturers only consider "backdoor" sharing with LE with a court order, not just a "warrant".  Using wireless in this application - guess it could have been, but that would be over the top stupid on part of amp.

But, to assume that management or the owner had to be in on it, is not correct. They may have been (who knows...), but it wouldn't be necessary by any means. I assumed nothing.  Two out of three scenarios I listed do NOT include management knowing

Still looking for a logical explanation of how they got cameras inside.

Well now - add a former Citigroup president and also add a wall street billionaire/major republican donor.  

[Just Another Guy]

5 hours ago, gr8owl said:

Still looking for a logical explanation of how they got cameras inside.

Well now - add a former Citigroup president and also add a wall street billionaire/major republican donor.  

Wish in one and shit in another, but you're beating a dead horse. You're not going to find out. And no possible explanation is  apparently good enough.

Do you know the difference between a court order an a warrant? Do you think that all wireless device users aren't profoundly stupid? Even the best high-tech industries have done stupid shit things.

Time to admit that you're out of your depth

[gr8owl]

26 minutes ago, Just Another Guy said:

Wish in one and shit in another, but you're beating a dead horse. You're not going to find out. And no possible explanation is  apparently good enough.

Do you know the difference between a court order an a warrant? Do you think that all wireless device users aren't profoundly stupid? Even the best high-tech industries have done stupid shit things.

Time to admit that you're out of your depth

Sorry for trying to engage you in a polite exercise in logic while seeking answers to an obvious question.  I will not make that mistake again.  My depth - you are hilarious.  Have a good night.

[gr8owl]

On 2/24/2019 at 8:25 PM, gr8owl said:

 seeking answers to an obvious question.  

And the answer it turns out, for those who may be interested, a fake bomb scare, evacuate building. 

[hornyoldtoad]

i thought one of the synonyms of billionaire was buffer...

how you can have that much and not have an assistant that can take care of special needs is mind boggling...

[Mr.Pink]

On 2/22/2019 at 0:13 PM, fork said:

Maybe one day one of these rich guys with nothing to lose will stand up and say "Yup, I see sex workers, they are wonderful people". And this will slowly become less stigmatized.

(I say he has nothing to lose since the secret is already out)

Yeah, I don't see him becoming this pro legalization crusader.

[NoCoGeezer]

3 hours ago, Mr.Pink said:

Yeah, I don't see him becoming this pro legalization crusader.

Yup.

Personally, I avoid MPs, Eastern European, Latina (in some situations) ladies due to sketchy for this topic. And in case of MPs, been a long time known more nefarious back story going on.

With that said, would love to see the NFL punish him by making him do a PSA with images over his shoulder showing the conditions these ladies go through. NFL buy ad time every game through the season, including post season to run it.

Not going to be a real punishment, but now drilling into others about this, and maybe drills into everyone that he's not the classy guy he wants to project. Yes, a PR thing ultimately, but, NFL has been too long situational on their causes. Eg. all angry re anthem protests, yet make DoD pay for the pregame salute to military shows (Patriots/Kraft being the biggest money grab). NFL spends all of October touting breast cancer awareness, yet they might let this slide??

Edited March 2, 2019 by NoCoGeezer

[2Big]

In the 80s and 90s I was a regular at various AMPs throughout the country: New York, Philadelphia, DC, San Francisco, etc. My experiences were uniformly poor to mediocre. It started with the often conspicous locations of these places (strip malls, office buildings, on busy streets, etc.) and didn't end with the real possibility of the joint getting busted or a plain clothes police officer following you to your car, asking whether you had received an offer of illegal services. 

The women ranged from 40s to 60s, were unattrative, the hygiene very poor (reused damp washclothes, that had traveled up many guys poop chutes and had probably never seen the inside of a washing machine). Services rendered ranged from abysmal to really terrible - usual a lousy massage, followed by an overpriced and tepid handjob. The place usually smelled of stale Korean whatever dish. 

Most men frequent these places because they want to bust a quick nut, or are lured in by names like "Orchid Spa" or "Oriental Delights".

One tip: if you do go to these places, be sure to ask to see the entire line-up of available girls. If you don't, fat mamasan is either going to do the massage herself or try to palm off the ugliest girl on you. Or, simply say you're going to come back later, and magically three more girls are going to appear from the rooms. If these ladies are worth seeing is another question....

The only exception I ever encountered were AMPs in Northern California that cater almost exclusively to Asian (business)men. I got an "in" into one of these places, and hot damn, it was like night and day. These girls were in their 20s to early 30s and aimed to please. Rather pricey, though, but worth it. Part of the reason was that they also recruited girls from nearby colleges: Cal State campuses, SF State SJS, etc. - so you also had plenty of Asian-American girls to choose from. 

When I was living in DC, I hooked up with this Korean-American chick who was working in a massage parlor. She got the entrepreneurial bug, rented a place, and started pimping out girls for massages. The services, however, quickly were upgraded to "full service", after she quit, she started seeing guys from an incall and I visited her frequently. She didn't have many taboos and was one of the best 3-holers I ever met. She was batshit crazy, though, was a single mom, and her brother was a cop.

[2Big]

On 2.3.2019 at 8:01 AM, NoCoGeezer said:

Yup.

Personally, (I avoid) Eastern European ... ladies

Why? 

You don't know what you're missing: but you gotta travel to Eastern Europe - Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, etc.

Edited March 3, 2019 by 2Big

[easytimes81006]

This was not  case of a few guys being busted at a massage parlor. All of that was collateral to a multi-agency task force investigation of human trafficking involving multiple massage parlors in several Florida counties. The focus of the investigation is the forced slavery imposed on women and girls imported for the specific purpose of prostitution. Arrests on prostitution or solicitation charges are a tactic used to turn people into witnesses against the organization running the game (and it is highly organized crime on an intercontinental scale).

The organization cares nothing about women being arrested, charged or convicted. Plenty more where they came from. They care nothing about the overseers, who are no more than low level management. They certainly care nothing about the clientele, other than as a source of revenue. Those running these organizations seldom, if ever, go to these places, and operate at two or more arms lengths using bag men, enforcers, and cut-outs for all communications.

As far as getting cameras and recording devices inside there are several possibilities. A snitch with access might have been developed. A warrant may have authorized surreptitious entry to place surveillance devices. A confidential informant may be frequented the business and placed devices while there. The business security system may have been hacked (nearly everything is digital and internet-based anymore).

There are video recorders now that are smaller than a shirt button. Pinhole cameras can be installed by drilling through a wall or door, requiring a hole about 2mm diameter (less than half the size of a BB). Cameras with transmitters can be effectively concealed in any piece of furniture or common appliance. Light fixtures and HVAC ducts are good for hi-def wide-angle cameras. Picture frames, pens or pencils, cell phones, sun glasses, just about anything you can think of can conceal modern surveillance equipment easily.

Now for the billionaire sports team owner. The day prior to his arrest he was contacted by cops as he was leaving the same parlor and essentially warned off. Still, he went back the very next day and apparently engaged in an unlawful act. Pretty stupid. Very arrogant. Neither he nor any of the other customers busted are the real target of the investigation, only pawns to be used to attack the bigger fish.

Now I expect that he will have his attorneys stretch his case out for a year or two, hoping that Florida prosecutors will move on to easier prosecutions and convictions. Maybe a low key plea deal with fines and slap-on-the-wrist probation.

[gr8owl]

3 hours ago, easytimes81006 said:

 

As far as getting cameras and recording devices inside there are several possibilities. A snitch with access might have been developed. A warrant may have authorized surreptitious entry to place surveillance devices. A confidential informant may be frequented the business and placed devices while there. The business security system may have been hacked (nearly everything is digital and internet-based anymore).

None of which have anything to do with this incident - real method of getting cameras inside given above already.

Now for the billionaire sports team owner. The day prior to his arrest he was contacted by cops as he was leaving the same parlor and essentially warned off. Based upon what?  Link to any site claiming he was warned or contacted after first (known) visit? Still, he went back the very next day and apparently engaged in an unlawful act. Pretty stupid. Very arrogant. Neither he nor any of the other customers busted are the real target of the investigation, only pawns to be used to attack the bigger fish.

Now I expect that he will have his attorneys stretch his case out for a year or two, hoping that Florida prosecutors will move on to easier prosecutions and convictions. Maybe a low key plea deal with fines and slap-on-the-wrist probation.

The method of operation was also previously covered, but you are correct.  AMP's these days are usually nothing more than outlets for actual, real trafficking and should all be shut down.  Those that frequent them regularly are willfully contributing to that actual trafficking, which is why I will never frequent them.  It is abhorrent and disgusting.  Now willing, consensual, independent adults ............ woohoo!! ...... those I get behind. (no puns involved)

[Bit Banger]

What chaps my chaps is all the hoopla about trafficking and yet I haven’t seen a single mention of actual charges for trafficking.  I suspect LE is tossing the term around to allow them access to the vast pool of funds set aside for counter-trafficking activities, and then using these funds for their normal vice opperations suppressing prostitution.  I do recall that the Federal statutes define ALL sex work as trafficking, probably to facilitate this transfer of funds.

While I agree that sex trafficking is a terrible thing, particularly when youth are involved, we must remember that it is only a small portion of the human trafficking/slavery industry as a whole.  Too bad LE can’t focus on the larger portion of the problem. But that would have a negative effect on several industries, and would not generate salacious, vote grabbing and fundraising headlines.

[gr8owl]

2 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

What chaps my chaps is all the hoopla about trafficking and yet I haven’t seen a single mention of actual charges for trafficking.  I suspect LE is tossing the term around to allow them access to the vast pool of funds set aside for counter-trafficking activities, and then using these funds for their normal vice opperations suppressing prostitution.  I do recall that the Federal statutes define ALL sex work as trafficking, probably to facilitate this transfer of funds.

While I agree that sex trafficking is a terrible thing, particularly when youth are involved, we must remember that it is only a small portion of the human trafficking/slavery industry as a whole.  Too bad LE can’t focus on the larger portion of the problem. But that would have a negative effect on several industries, and would not generate salacious, vote grabbing and fundraising headlines.

Read the detailed reports and compare to local ones over last couple years.  When it comes to most amps, LE is not just throwing around the term trafficking.  It is real and happening.  To dismiss it as just misuse of the term is to wear blinders.  LE DOES use it inappropriately relative to many prostitution busts and in order to get grants, etc. and it is bs when they do.  But when there is REAL trafficking going on we should, IMHO, cheer that it gets shut down and refuse to participate or frequent those whose business model requires it.

[Bit Banger]

1 minute ago, gr8owl said:

Read the detailed reports and compare to local ones over last couple years.  When it comes to most amps, LE is not just throwing around the term trafficking.  It is real and happening.  To dismiss it as just misuse of the term is to wear blinders.  LE DOES use it inappropriately relative to many prostitution busts and in order to get grants, etc. and it is bs when they do.  But when there is REAL trafficking going on we should, IMHO, cheer that it gets shut down and refuse to participate or frequent those whose business model requires it.

Then perhaps we should dis LE for crying wolf so often and dulling our belief when it is a valid charge?  Yes, AMPs are prime examples of where trafficking may occur, but so are nail salons, the construction trades and agriculture.  Would you have us not buy new homes or fresh vegetables?

[FuriousWeasel]

2 minutes ago, gr8owl said:

Read the detailed reports and compare to local ones over last couple years.  When it comes to most amps, LE is not just throwing around the term trafficking.  It is real and happening.  To dismiss it as just misuse of the term is to wear blinders.  LE DOES use it inappropriately relative to many prostitution busts and in order to get grants, etc. and it is bs when they do.  But when there is REAL trafficking going on we should, IMHO, cheer that it gets shut down and refuse to participate or frequent those whose business model requires it.

For reference good or bad, attached are the FBI statistics on actual confirmed trafficking cases.  Remember, some NGO recently gave out numbers so inflated that it basically said half the girls under 18 in the entire country were trafficked within 5 years.  I'm not saying the rescue groups are lying in order to get funding... oh wait, actually I am saying that they are blatantly lying about the numbers. 

[gr8owl]

9 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Then perhaps we should dis LE for crying wolf so often and dulling our belief when it is a valid charge?ABSOLUTELY!!  Yes, AMPs are prime examples of where trafficking may  not may, does occur, but so are nail salons, the construction trades and agriculture.  Would you have us not buy new homes or fresh vegetables?

It is no better to try and paint all with one brush from the excuse it side than it is from the LE side.  The vast majority (from experience in construction industry for decades and in and around an ag community) of construction and ag workers are voluntarily working.  They may be here illegally (a whole different issue) and they may therefore be vulnerable to abuse from unscrupulous employers (scum) because they can get away with it and not be reported, but the workers are not recruited and brought here under false pretense and forced to do work they did not sign up for.  If I see evidence of forced or coerced labor I will NOT spend my money where I see it - be it new house, tomatoes or massages.  All I am saying is pay attention objectively and if you see it do not support it or look the other way.  By all detailed accounts I have seen on this incident LE was NOT crying wolf, they were doing their job and shutting down some really bad actors that needed shut down.  Not always the case by any means.  Again, look, observe, discern.   

[Barbi]

Found it interesting that the former Hollywood Madame herself used this situation was a way to get herself back in the spotlight again but discussing the views on legalization of the industry because of that situation...While it seems that history in her case has been rewritten about whether or not she actually handed over her black book of names because I seem to remember that there was a lot of names that did come out in that case but besides that she is completely ignoring what the real problem was with that situation which is the aspect that human trafficking was involved and from the tone of what was written it made it seem like Kraft was a regular there which makes plausible deniability to be a minor problem that has been pretty much overlooked by Fleiss...While the wealthy in this country seem to think they can get away with anything, that should not be the case when what they are doing involves those who do not wish to participate in such situations, which is what actually is what human trafficking entails....This also brings up another point with regards to legalization as discussed as it involves government regulation which everyone needs to remember was responsible for over looking the corporate fraud that created the housing bubble in this country in 2007, which caused the biggest economic losses suffered in the history of this country...So while the top 5% of the most wealthy in this country have had an increase in their income of about 10% over the last decade, but as a result of this stunting the US economy every man, woman and child in this country as suffered a $70,000 loss off the income levels they had 10 years ago....So given the fact that it is the very same group of people who are now trying to convince us of how great it would be for such things to be legal that should be enough reason to send up a huge red warning sign that something in this situation is amiss as clearly their last concern in this situation is doing what is best for anyone of us here but instead is nothing more than their greed as they impose their regulations in one of the few areas left in our life where we can actually control the choices we make without their interference and need for government regulations in the most intimate choices we make in our lives....While most are not aware of this being true if you review the information on those who are behind this sudden legalization craze you will be shocked to discover that is in fact that case as they try to gain control of every aspect of freedom we still have left in our lives....Just saying everyone needs to consider this fact when they are considering the possibility of legalization of any of the vices that they have made certain was illegal all these years or you might find that there is no freedoms we have left in this country and nothing is scared as it should be...

[frankenthaler91]

Interesting article that was in my news feed. 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/wealthy-tech-exec-30-describes-his-costly-addiction-to-massage-parlor-sex-i-love-the-ego-stroking

[Barbi]

Wow $20,000 over 6 years thats a hell of an addiction.....Thats around $3,500  a year.....Seems rather inexpensive for a weekly habit to me....

[petey-9950]

That’s about $68.00 per week.  That’s cheap 

[Bit Banger]

5 hours ago, Barbi said:

Wow $20,000 over 6 years thats a hell of an addiction.....Thats around $3,500  a year.....Seems rather inexpensive for a weekly habit to me....

That’s about 1visit/month for local talent.

[Barbi]

But the story says he had a weekly habit.....To me that denotes hobbying once a week...Or no???? 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Barbi

[Bit Banger]

44 minutes ago, Barbi said:

But the story says he had a weekly habit.....To me that denotes hobbying once a week...Or no???? 

Right. And at ~$70/wk that means a 1hr massage w/o extras.  (Based on my recollection of spa fees.)

I was just comparing his $3500/yr to a hobby budget.

[petey-9950]

Ok 1/2 hour massage with all the extras (FS) is about $160.00 per visit

Edited March 5, 2019 by petey-9950
Added a word

[frankenthaler91]

In the article, he only mentioned HJ's and 1 CBJ.  $70 average sounds about right.  I've never been to a AMP.  $70 is what I have paid for a legit 1hr massage. 

[Barbi]

Well maybe I am wrong but that does not seem like it is much of a true addiction like that article is attempt to say that it is....To me an addiction that which is suffered by corporations and the government as they devise more ways for me to continue to destroy the lives of the people in this country by regulation or criminal sanctions that keep everyone down from achieving the American dream of financial freedom which is they only true freedom left in the world, all the rest is nothing but an illusion intended to hold us all back from becoming what we always wanted to be in our lives....That is what we have all been  sold by them our entire lives and as we get older they kill our hopes and dreams in order to holds us all back from enjoying the same things that they enjoy....The things that are only possible with financial freedom....So maybe it is time that we start reminding them all who it is that pays their salaries....It is the people of this country and our money pays them not the other way around....Maybe it is time that we all consider a revolt but of course I am not suggesting violence as that is just another way that they can exercise their control.....What I am suggesting with get their attention far more than anything else we could ever do....I am advocating that everyone decide to organize together and for just one day every man, woman and child in this country just take the day and stay home....Dont go to work...Dont break the law...Just stay home and remember what it is like to enjoy your family and friends....No driving, nothing to give them an excuse to mess with you...Just stay home and enjoy the day or evening....That is the best self care that anyone could ever do and it would make a point to those who are trying to rule the world with our money and control what that which we have earned...If we stood together and did that as a country it would cost big business and they government close to a billion dollars and that is the only thing that we can do in order so they understand we mean what we say....Its time that they be reminded they work for us, not the other way around!!! .

[Mr.Pink]

So prosecutors admit there was no evidence of trafficking. https://deadspin.com/prosecutor-theres-no-evidence-of-sex-trafficking-in-th-1834008710