How busy are you????

[Hunter VanDyke]

31 minutes ago, Kali Sensual Reiki said:

My Rates do not determine my self worth! Let’s make that perfectly clear please. It upsets me to see that that ever written by another provider. Also, it is very seldom that we see sisters, mothers, as well as daughters working this avenue (line of work). Especially if we ourselves are involved. Correct me if I am wrong? Lol it is a calling of sorts from my perspective and there are some of us that are well sought after. Nothing more be said by me. 

 

Love this Kali 💙💙💙

[Nina Faulkner]

Kali, why wouldn't your rate reflect what you see yourself as worth?  This isn't a post about how we value our selves in real life, but what we charge in direct relation to what we feel we can generate.  If you don't like to think that your rate signifies what you think you are worth, please explain.  I myself think I am with more then, say, $100 an hour.  How exactly does what you charge not directly relate to what you feel you and your time are worth ?  Would you accept $50 an hour for your time?  If not, why? It has everything to do with what we value ourselves worth.    

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

27 minutes ago, Nina Faulkner said:

Kali, why wouldn't your rate reflect what you see yourself as worth?  This isn't a post about how we value our selves in real life, but what we charge in direct relation to what we feel we can generate.  If you don't like to think that your rate signifies what you think you are worth, please explain.  I myself think I am with more then, say, $100 an hour.  How exactly does what you charge not directly relate to what you feel you and your time are worth ?  Would you accept $50 an hour for your time?  If not, why? It has everything to do with what we value ourselves worth.    

Something totally lost in translation! The “Service and time” is what is paid for. The client  only leave with the experience of being with me. I will not discuss my rates on TOB especially in an open public forum. I am worth more!

Edited September 4, 2018 by Kali Sensual Reiki

[Nina Faulkner]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. 

[ecc2012]

On 9/1/2018 at 4:26 PM, Chrissy said:

Mind Your Own business. Do NOT EVER tell Us how to Run ours. 

Exactly, it is always the lady's choice. Some guy like 2 hrs old sent me a pm asking for services and rates of a good friend. That one really pissed me off, it is always always up to the lady what she offers and accepts. DID I MENTION ALWAYS

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

4 hours ago, Kali Sensual Reiki said:

Something totally lost in translation! The “Service and time” is what is paid for. The client  only leave with the experience of being with me. I will not discuss my rates on TOB especially in an open public forum. I am worth more!

You can’t hang a price tag on me or any other lady. Comodies are a stock market item. The price of wheat or corn? Nope I am strictly Keto! And Last time I checked I was not up for auction. That sort of thinking went out with slavory!  Hell last time i checked women can now vote too! Even provider women! 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Kali Sensual Reiki

[Zelda Runner]

On 9/1/2018 at 1:03 PM, Turtle138 said:

Most  providers comment on this form how many no shows and time wasters they get.

Maybe adjust time for $$$ and see less .

Thoughts???

 

Hard to do that if no one is booking and rates are set for a reason. 

[Nina Faulkner]

Kali, when you post an ad on TOB, what is your goal?

[Nina Faulkner]

To say that that was in any way a reference to our power as women is crap. Every time we post on TOB, or anywhere else,  an ADVERTISMENT, we are advertising what to get clientelle?  Ourselves.  Our time and what we offer.  For ourselves and our livelihood.  There is no mention of putting us back into the dark ages.  There is absolutely no reference of diminishing our power as women.  So by placing an AD to generate clients, we are what?  Because I sure would like to know what it is you are advertising if not time spent with you.  All of this is by choice, on both sides.  Both sides can take it or leave it .   And if one side doesn't have a choice that's a completely different conversation. 

This thread is about lowering rates to accommodate more clientelle. In which Turtle has already made clear that wasn't his intent.  In a market that it already highly competitive. Something I personally won't do.  It was nothing more then that.  

If you took offense to the word "commodity", then help me replace it with another term. We are providers. Is that a better word?  We provide ourselves, our time, our entertainment, our services,, on our terms, with rates we determine for ourselves.  If that makes you feel like a bag of corn being offered to the highest bidder that's on you. And if you feel that is what I implied, then I apologize.  My post was the exact opposite.  If you dont like the idea that we are selling ourselves/services when we post, perhaps a better term is offering our selves/services?  Does that make it less offensive?  

[Mike940370]

This doesn't seem like a very friendly place

[Hunter VanDyke]

2 hours ago, Nina Faulkner said:

To say that that was in any way a reference to our power as women is crap. Every time we post on TOB, or anywhere else,  an ADVERTISMENT, we are advertising what to get clientelle?  Ourselves.  Our time and what we offer.  For ourselves and our livelihood.  There is no mention of putting us back into the dark ages.  There is absolutely no reference of diminishing our power as women.  So by placing an AD to generate clients, we are what?  Because I sure would like to know what it is you are advertising if not time spent with you.  All of this is by choice, on both sides.  Both sides can take it or leave it .   And if one side doesn't have a choice that's a completely different conversation. 

This thread is about lowering rates to accommodate more clientelle. In which Turtle has already made clear that wasn't his intent.  In a market that it already highly competitive. Something I personally won't do.  It was nothing more then that.  

If you took offense to the word "commodity", then help me replace it with another term. We are providers. Is that a better word?  We provide ourselves, our time, our entertainment, our services,, on our terms, with rates we determine for ourselves.  If that makes you feel like a bag of corn being offered to the highest bidder that's on you. And if you feel that is what I implied, then I apologize.  My post was the exact opposite.  If you dont like the idea that we are selling ourselves/services when we post, perhaps a better term is offering our selves/services?  Does that make it less offensive?  

Although, there have been posts from hobbyists suggesting providers lower their rates for our own benefit, this is not one of them. Some members have read it that way, but others including me didn't, and turtle stated that was not what he was trying to say. I get it if he were, I would be all over that as a provider myself. It's definitely a hot button for providers for obvious reasons. No other person in the workplace would see lowering their hourly wage as beneficial. That being said, I believe his post was misunderstood.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Hunter VanDyke

[Bora Bora]

7 minutes ago, Hunter VanDyke said:

(...) That being said, I believe his post was misunderstood.

This happens many times. I think we all have to make an effort to write in such a way that there are no misunderstandings. Letters and words don't convey our face expressions or voice intonation. 

[Hunter VanDyke]

1 minute ago, Bora Bora said:

This happens many times. I think we all have to make an effort to write in such a way that there are no misunderstandings. Letters and words don't convey our face expressions or voice intonation. 

I'm guilty. I'll work on it. 😁

[Kali Sensual Reiki]

3 hours ago, Nina Faulkner said:

To say that that was in any way a reference to our power as women is crap. Every time we post on TOB, or anywhere else,  an ADVERTISMENT, we are advertising what to get clientelle?  Ourselves.  Our time and what we offer.  For ourselves and our livelihood.  There is no mention of putting us back into the dark ages.  There is absolutely no reference of diminishing our power as women.  So by placing an AD to generate clients, we are what?  Because I sure would like to know what it is you are advertising if not time spent with you.  All of this is by choice, on both sides.  Both sides can take it or leave it .   And if one side doesn't have a choice that's a completely different conversation. 

This thread is about lowering rates to accommodate more clientelle. In which Turtle has already made clear that wasn't his intent.  In a market that it already highly competitive. Something I personally won't do.  It was nothing more then that.  

If you took offense to the word "commodity", then help me replace it with another term. We are providers. Is that a better word?  We provide ourselves, our time, our entertainment, our services,, on our terms, with rates we determine for ourselves.  If that makes you feel like a bag of corn being offered to the highest bidder that's on you. And if you feel that is what I implied, then I apologize.  My post was the exact opposite.  If you dont like the idea that we are selling ourselves/services when we post, perhaps a better term is offering our selves/services?  Does that make it less offensive?  

Sure Nina no problem how about “Services and time” 

i am not out to stir problems for anyone. However, I will never refer to myself as being a “commodity”. That word really bothers me. It also could possibly pose a legal problem. 

As for Turtle I am sorry you are causing a stir on here? Possibly just making appointments with girls that meet your financial criteria is a way of cutting your losses. 

Best of luck to you all!  Sorry it took me a while to respond. I work a full time real world job too and the phone has been nuts today. 

[Mike940370]

LOL, I think you girls are being way too sensitive and butt hurt for absolutely nothing. 

IfI went into Wally World and told them they woul;d sell more if they lowered their prices,  they would just smile probably thinking I need a shrink. If one of you ladies would post here "I wish men would pay more for me", we'd just smile and say, " I bet you do"

[Admiral C]

7 minutes ago, Mike940370 said:

LOL, I think you girls are being way too sensitive and butt hurt for absolutely nothing. 

IfI went into Wally World and told them they woul;d sell more if they lowered their prices,  they would just smile probably thinking I need a shrink. If one of you ladies would post here "I wish men would pay more for me", we'd just smile and say, " I bet you do"

Threads about rates have been getting similar reactions here from the ladies and the gentlemen for only about 17 and a half years.

[BadBoy]

I am also in the business of furnishing personal services, in other words I charge people by the hour for my time and assistance.  My rate is not too much different from our providers here, but I have never confused my hourly rate for my services with my "worth" as a person.  Instead, it is simply the maximum amount that I can charge in the current market without losing too many customers.  It has been my experience that so long as I am "in the pack," meaning my charges are not drastically higher or lower than my competitors, my hourly price doesn't really affect whether people hire me or not.  They hire me for a lot of reasons, including my reputation, referrals, qualifications, location (don't laugh, people are intrinsically lazy), etc.  I have had customers tell me that my rate is too high, but I just smile and let them know that there are lots of my colleagues who charge less, and that I hope they find someone they enjoy working with.  Sometimes I give them the name of a beginner who is just starting out and charges less.  What I refuse to do is negotiate, or confuse their unwillingness to pay my price as any form of critique of my "worth."  In other words, it is no more a comment on my "worth" than if a customer in my hypothetical hardware store refused to buy a widget from me because they can't afford it, or don't want to spend the money.

Selling your time is just like selling widgets at the wigeteria.  People will flock to see you, regardless of your price (so long as you are "in the pack") if you satisfy their needs and make them happy.  At that point, price becomes a secondary consideration.  Starbucks taught this to McDonalds.

I see this in my sporting endeavors.  I visit with ladies who charge anywhere from $160 to $500 per hour, and I never select my companion based on the donation she requests - I base my decision on who I would like to see, and who makes me happiest.

I understand that this endeavor is more personal and intimate, I get that, but I still think you ladies should never consider your worth as a human being and as a woman to have anything to do with the market-driven donation that you are able to obtain for your time and companionship.  Your real worth is so much more, and at whatever donation you are requesting, if you make your customer happy and fulfill his needs, it is a bargain.

This rambled a bit, so I hope it comes across like I wanted......

Edited September 4, 2018 by BadBoy

[Hunter VanDyke]

30 minutes ago, Mike940370 said:

LOL, I think you girls are being way too sensitive and butt hurt for absolutely nothing. 

IfI went into Wally World and told them they woul;d sell more if they lowered their prices,  they would just smile probably thinking I need a shrink. If one of you ladies would post here "I wish men would pay more for me", we'd just smile and say, " I bet you do"

Maybe you think we're too sensitive about it, but it's our bodies, safety, livelihood we're talking about. As much as some of you guys like to compare us to walmart or whatever businesses you want to bring up, it's not the same thing. Trust me it's nothing like an ordinary business. That's why you'll see providers fired up when guys start talking about our business. Yes, we're professionals and conduct ourselves a certain way, but there is a lot more that goes into this business that you will ever realize unless you've been a provider before.

[Nina Faulkner]

Bad boy, reading your post I believe I see what Kali was trying to point out but got stuck on 'commodity".  I understand and wholeheartedly that we cannot place a dollar amount on our worth.  And this is tricky for me to say so bear with me. 

My services are priced as such because thats what I feel I can charge for my time and companionship .  My services.  It is not my worth as a human by Any stretch of the imagination.  My worth as a human is limitless.  However since my time and companionship ARE my service and therefore are me, I then become the commodity in my offering of time and entertainment to be spent with me.    If I offended anyone else by the use of commodity, I apologize.  

[Bit Banger]

38 minutes ago, BadBoy said:

I am also in the business of furnishing personal services, in other words I charge people by the hour for my time and assistance.  My rate is not too much different from our providers here, but I have never confused my hourly rate for my services with my "worth" as a person.  Instead, it is simply the maximum amount that I can charge in the current market without losing too many customers.  It has been my experience that so long as I am "in the pack," meaning my charges are not drastically higher or lower than my competitors, my hourly price doesn't really affect whether people hire me or not.  They hire me for a lot of reasons, including my reputation, referrals, qualifications, location (don't laugh, people are intrinsically lazy), etc.  I have had customers tell me that my rate is too high, but I just smile and let them know that there are lots of my colleagues who charge less, and that I hope they find someone they enjoy working with.  Sometimes I give them the name of a beginner who is just starting out and charges less.  What I refuse to do is negotiate, or confuse their unwillingness to pay my price as any form of critique of my "worth."  In other words, it is no more a comment on my "worth" than if a customer in my hypothetical hardware store refused to buy a widget from me because they can't afford it, or don't want to spend the money.

Selling your time is just like selling widgets at the wigeteria.  People will flock to see you, regardless of your price (so long as you are "in the pack") if you satisfy their needs and make them happy.  At that point, price becomes a secondary consideration.  Starbucks taught this to McDonalds.

I see this in my sporting endeavors.  I visit with ladies who charge anywhere from $160 to $500 per hour, and I never select my companion based on the donation she requests - I base my decision on who I would like to see, and who makes me happiest.

I understand that this endeavor is more personal and intimate, I get that, but I still think you ladies should never consider your worth as a human being and as a woman to have anything to do with the market-driven donation that you are able to obtain for your time and companionship.  Your real worth is so much more, and at whatever donation you are requesting, if you make your customer happy and fulfill his needs, it is a bargain.

This rambled a bit, so I hope it comes across like I wanted......

Individual worth and rates are NOT related!  That’s a drum I’ve been beating for years, sometimes getting beaten up for saying so.

BadBoy’s post ^^ is one of the better explanations offered. As much as some ladies may protest (“But my business is different.”) the basic laws of economics, of supply & demand, still apply.  I could just as easily say, “But you just don’t understand the difficulties of finding & fixing software errors.”  Some of the parameters defining the supply & demand curves are unique to various professions. 

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

On 9/2/2018 at 3:16 AM, Hunter VanDyke said:

Am I wrong? I thought the OP was saying to increase rates and see less guys? 😂😂😂

Definitely how I read it too.

[Hunter VanDyke]

9 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Individual worth and rates are NOT related!  That’s a drum I’ve been beating for years, sometimes getting beaten up for saying so.

BadBoy’s post ^^ is one of the better explanations offered. As much as some ladies may protest (“But my business is different.”) the basic laws of economics, of supply & demand, still apply.  I could just as easily say, “But you just don’t understand the difficulties of finding & fixing software errors.”  Some of the parameters defining the supply & demand curves are unique to various professions. 

I wish you guys would understand how we feel when we're compared to software, widgets and whatever else. But, it's pointless. I had a long response to this, but I deleted it. Movin on. 

[Hobby Hobbit -Banned]

7 hours ago, Nina Faulkner said:

To say that that was in any way a reference to our power as women is crap. Every time we post on TOB, or anywhere else,  an ADVERTISMENT, we are advertising what to get clientelle?  Ourselves.  Our time and what we offer.  For ourselves and our livelihood.  There is no mention of putting us back into the dark ages.  There is absolutely no reference of diminishing our power as women.  So by placing an AD to generate clients, we are what?  Because I sure would like to know what it is you are advertising if not time spent with you.  All of this is by choice, on both sides.  Both sides can take it or leave it .   And if one side doesn't have a choice that's a completely different conversation. 

This thread is about lowering rates to accommodate more clientelle. In which Turtle has already made clear that wasn't his intent.  In a market that it already highly competitive. Something I personally won't do.  It was nothing more then that.  

If you took offense to the word "commodity", then help me replace it with another term. We are providers. Is that a better word?  We provide ourselves, our time, our entertainment, our services,, on our terms, with rates we determine for ourselves.  If that makes you feel like a bag of corn being offered to the highest bidder that's on you. And if you feel that is what I implied, then I apologize.  My post was the exact opposite.  If you dont like the idea that we are selling ourselves/services when we post, perhaps a better term is offering our selves/services?  Does that make it less offensive?  

The oldest profession known to man and it's refreshing to see a healthy perspective on it from a provider. Kudos to you, Nina.

[pfunk]

1 hour ago, Hunter VanDyke said:

I wish you guys would understand how we feel when we're compared to software, widgets and whatever else. But, it's pointless. I had a long response to this, but I deleted it. Movin on. 

As someone who sells my skill and knowledge at hourly rates, I understand very well. There are people who will pay me twice what they'll pay someone else, because I have many good reviews. There are also people making 10 times what I do, because their skills, and knowledge, are far more rare than mine.

If us guys are going to compare providers, we should compare them to other service providers, not physical goods.

Thank you!

Edited September 5, 2018 by pfunk
finished early!!

[Guest]

Omg! So glad to see that the good ol rate thread is on time as always! And a few new people chime in with opinions that have really zero value UNLIKE a true commodity! As a now retired provider I can speak my mother fuckin mind. 

Every lady charges what she feels her target audience will bare. Kali charges her rates for whatever reason she wants and it’s nobody’s effing business!!! If someone charges more, good for them....and again nobody’s effing business! However, coming on here and publicly rate shaming is so low class and to do it to such a highly respected, long time, and successful lady is just a bunch of crap! 

So, um your newness is showing, you might want to tuck that in a bit. Denver has been an over flooded market for a long time now. It has nothing to do with self worth but it has everything to do with what the market for the individual lady’s target audience will bare. Ms. Nina, you’re the new toy in town, you can charge more, but I promise you, in a short period of time, you will not be new and you’ll wonder why the phone is not ringing like it used to. Perhaps you will lower your rates. I wonder, will that be because you are no longer worth it? Or will it be because you need food and shelter? whatever the reason, it won’t be anyone’s business! You will do yourself a big favor by not telling long time providers how to charge for their services. Adult service providers are NOT and NEVER will be commodities! I understand you are back peddling a bit on the term, fair enough, but multiple threads calling out one lady....tacky. But what the fuck do I know, I was a provider for 18 years, I know nothing. 

Tick tock, tick tock! That’s the sound of time running out on your newness! 

 

[Turtle138]

To everyone that joined the debate l thank you for your input.

Some got it and others went a different way, but in the end for those of you who may of read and not responded.

Just remember if it's to be it's up to you!

To all have a wonderful adventure in the life you live.

 

[Nina Faulkner]

First of all Melissa  where did I call ANYONE out on their rate or tell them how to run their business?  I have had multiple private conversations with Kali and have apologized for offending her with sincerity. What she chooses to do with that is her business. 

I'm glad you got this off your chest.  I hope you feel better.  Especially for your kind and thoughtful words.  At least I was big enough to apologize for being offensive.  Now where did I criticize or become foul.   Unlike you. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Nina Faulkner said:

First of all Melissa  where did I call ANYONE out on their rate or tell them how to run their business?  I have had multiple private conversations with Kali and have apologized for offending her with sincerity. What she chooses to do with that is her business. 

I'm glad you got this off your chest.  I hope you feel better.  Especially for your kind and thoughtful words.  At least I was big enough to apologize for being offensive.  Now where did I criticize or become foul.   Unlike you. 

First of all I am not going to apologize for anything! I meant every word! As far as where did you criticize? Go read your own words. You apologized, good. But you should be mindful of everyone on the board who took that as a personal jab. See the problem is that you have no idea who all those people are and so you should probably not do that in the future. It truly never really works out for people. Again, 18 year retired veteran, what the hell do I know. 

[Nina Faulkner]

10 hours ago, Kali Sensual Reiki said:

4 hours ago, Melissa Sterling said:

Yep Melissa. You're absolutley right.  I completely screwed up.  I see what you are talking about and where I did it.  It was insensitive and inflammatory.  And I should know better.  Ladies, my apologies.  With all sincerity. I wasn't thinking.  And to Turtle as well.  

[Bit Banger]

12 hours ago, Hunter VanDyke said:

I wish you guys would understand how we feel when we're compared to software, widgets and whatever else. But, it's pointless. I had a long response to this, but I deleted it. Movin on. 

I was not comparing your services to widgets. I was comparing your services to another instances of service and skill.  

Why do so many people (especially politicians) refuse to accept the basic laws of economics? They describe the interactions of a market place, be it goods, commodities,  stocks&bonds, or services.

I don’t care what you charge; you define your rates.  But you business will be effected by that choice. I ask that you not tie your self worth to that choice because you then give up control of your psyche. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Bit Banger