Lucy Kitten

The Horse That Just Won't Die

142 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, pfunk said:

I gotta agree with this^^^ There are guys on Eccie, TNA, and even here, who think 30 minutes should go for less than a 100, and include GFE. Geez, just getting a plumber, to come look at a clogged drain, is double that! 

But hey, cheapskates will always be with us, and always dreaded by the women.  

Unfortunately,I think it happens in every service business! :angry:

I agree with pfunk.

In all services, there is the cheapskate looking for the lowest price and the best "value" Run from them. You know what your hour is worth.

That said, you ladies here know what your time is worth, what your advice and company is worth. And that is what the market will bear.

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39 minutes ago, Melissa Sterling said:

I agree Lucy! Back in 01 when I first came onto TOB there were 30 girls between Cos and Denver. All the girls hated me because my rates were so low @$$$ an hour. Then the recession hit and everyone lowered their rates so the guys could still see us. The rates never rebounded. It’s time they did. With the cost of living gone up so high it’s becoming harder and harder to make ends meet. Believe it or not, some girls are not making more than 2k a month, that’s not ok. 

The guys here have it too good. The guys who appreciate the lower rates say thank you, but this sense of entitlement has gotten out of hand. Just because we are providers doesn’t mean we should be treated like bottom feeders. I miss the days of making 5k a week, and that’s not seeing a ton of guys. We have to work harder now with extra screening yet we make much less. 

Now people want B.B. and $150 an hour. And I hear all the time, well other girls do it. Well I’m not other girls. And I’m pretty sure that while there might be a few that will do that, 99% don’t. 

While Lucy doesn’t always post things I agree with, this time I do! Lots of changes are coming this spring.

 

Melissa hit it on the head, so to speak!

 

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1 hour ago, Lucy Kitten said:

I didn't generalize men that way. You said the word dumb I didn't. I said clients don't have an idea of what a decent rate is and that's true. I wasn't complaining about just my rates either. I was pretty clear that Denver was cheaper compared to other markets and everyone should raise their rates to adjust to rising costs. 

So would you say Coke is literally the only one holding itself back from charging $200 a bottle? How ridiculous are you? There are about a million factors that go in to setting the right rate. I have to price myself competitively, I have to price myself for the market. Seriously what is wrong with you? 

What I am saying is that in a market where average rent is $1.5k homes are $500k, where advertising costs keep raising, where the cost of everything keeps raising we providers need to consider that when factoring our rates. 

I would imagine that you want your favorites to succeed right? Collectively raising rates is awesome for everyone. Again are you so clouded by your dislike of me that you would refuse to acknowledge that stagnated rates should go up on a luxury service? 

I would give anything if the average market was $1,500, closer to $2,500😱

Lucy, I do agree our market is definitely on the low end. On the flip side of this I do enjoy my regulars that I see weekly.  It really is a balancing act and certain times of year are slower than others...we as providers have to plan accordingly.  

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what kind if job would you ladies have if there wasn't horny men out there? why dont you charge your SO to have sex so there extra income for you, charge what you want and if you get it great if not better think of the best ways you can, you dont think us men have bills like you ladies do? for what you charge now can make you a fortune unlike most people out there working a 9- 5 job, working 2 jobs to survive, living with roomates etc... you make great money tax free. spend your money wisely and you shall succeed.

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12 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

That's not the point. But OK. Gentleman have no concept of what an acceptable rate is. 

Please enlighten us Lucy.  What is an acceptable rate?

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5 hours ago, stevie-2249 said:

what kind if job would you ladies have if there wasn't horny men out there? why dont you charge your SO to have sex so there extra income for you, charge what you want and if you get it great if not better think of the best ways you can, you dont think us men have bills like you ladies do? for what you charge now can make you a fortune unlike most people out there working a 9- 5 job, working 2 jobs to survive, living with roomates etc... you make great money tax free. spend your money wisely and you shall succeed.

No fortunes to be be made when there’s too many girls. I’m graduating in 3 weeks, have 7 interviews lined up. Eff it, what do I care. 

The point here is that the guys will pay higher rates, they do in other cities, they will here too. But the market is over flooded and new girls are coming in with low rates, you do the math. 

Try making $300 a week. That’s below poverty. So, no fortunes here. Love that myth, wish it were true. 

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10 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

I don't just feel that my rates are too low. I feel like everyone's rates are too low. What used to be a thriving hot spot for the hobby is no longer. 

 Thanks for the input Lucy, thanks to you ,I'll raise my rates :)      That said, Denver is still a hot spot,you just have more ladies to compete with than in 2010. 

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5 hours ago, stevie-2249 said:

what kind if job would you ladies have if there wasn't horny men out there? why dont you charge your SO to have sex so there extra income for you, charge what you want and if you get it great if not better think of the best ways you can, you dont think us men have bills like you ladies do? for what you charge now can make you a fortune unlike most people out there working a 9- 5 job, working 2 jobs to survive, living with roomates etc... you make great money tax free. spend your money wisely and you shall succeed.

It just shows how little you really understand this business. I am very aware that you gents have bills, I think the problem is you guys want us providers to fit your budget which is not our deal. That's not how luxury products work. 

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4 minutes ago, JRWolfe said:

 Thanks for the input Lucy, thanks to you ,I'll raise my rates :)      That said, Denver is still a hot spot,you just have more ladies to compete with than in 2010. 

It is not a hot spot for escorts. It's a cheap spot. It's not just more ladies to compete with, my cost of living has risen %40 since 2010 but rates have stagnated. 

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1 hour ago, JRWolfe said:

  That said, Denver is still a hot spot,you just have more ladies to compete with than in 2010. 

oh-noes-teh-unprofitability.jpg

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First I want to say thank you to all the wonderful providers I've had the pleasure of meeting.  I am amazed that you are able to do what you do in the face of the uphill climb that being associated with this hobby brings.  Running any business is difficult, running one with the adversity you face is probably almost impossible (I've been doing this a little over a year and you see many providers come and go).

I've been in the service industry (not one as fun as this-mind you!) for most of my adult life.  My hourly rate was based on competition, what the market would bear, and what clients were willing to pay to get my services.  I charged more than similar companies, and less than others.  When I raised my rates existing clients usually stayed with me, I can't recall having lost a client to a rate increase, even when the rate increase was designed to have them go elsewhere.

I do get that having a lot of competition drives the rate down, but for me rate is not the only concern.  I'm fortunate that I can engage in this hobby once or twice a month so I usually find who I would like to see, then see if I can work it in my budget.

Providers can call me out here for being wrong, but at least for me rate only factors into part of the decision.  Obviously if the experience is worth it, I will return and pay the rate requested.  If it was not, then I will look elsewhere.  I have not asked for a provider to change their rate, to me the rate advertised is the rate I expect to pay.  If I feel the rate doesn't match what I hope to experience than I don't contact the provider.

I understand you have to set your rate based on 'the going rate' but I think if you are confident in your abilities, make it easy to do business with you, and enjoy your work recurring business will happen.  The only thing I can offer would be have a tiered rate system or one rate for one time visits and another for regulars, offer specials to entice new clients in the hopes they will become regulars.

I realize I'm coming at this from the other side of the door, but the horse wasn't going to beat itself!

 

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"Down the road, job opportunities tend to dwindle for those in the more naked professions.." - Hank Moody s3e3

hank.moody.jpeg

Edited by boosty
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Lucy, why don't you just raise your rates?  Seems like a better solution than constantly bitching on TOB about what a cheap bunch of SOBs we are for paying the rates that you advertise and apparently think are too low.

If you think you are worth $500 per hour, go ahead and raise your rates - your income will skyrocket and you will be much happier, and hopefully quieter.

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15 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Gotta pay my bills. If you can't do anything but try and make this personal feel free to excuse yourself. 

    Thereby hangs the tale. There will always be ladies or situations that create rate variance. It is all well and good for ladies to agree on "a price fix" for lack of a better term......that is UNTIL some can't pay their bills. Then come "specials".....which can and often do, lead to lower rates. Setting rates higher pre-supposes clients will pay it, and certainly SOME will. Some WON"T. Many who do pay it will just hobby less. Now I suppose from a ladies view, two sessions a week at 300 is better than 4 a week at 150, but final analysis is the same amount of money ( albeit for less work). In such an environment, guys will look for regulars who offer a discount. They will also try out new girls with lower rates, looking for a new gem.

   Not all of the problem is "cheap guys". Wages outside the hobby have also not kept pace with costs of living, equally fewer hobbiests, or at least, less luxury money in hobbiests pockets. I experience the EXACT same issues in my business of "cheap clients"...sky-high expectations...flakiness...overstaying....low-balling.....etc. Indeed for over a decade ,I had ZERO competition....now I have at least 2 competitors. Guess what they do.....you got it...they low-ball for clients.

  It is what it is....and what it is , is a free market situation for the ladies ( and my business). There is NOTHING across the board that can, or will be done. Not everyone ( maybe no one) would agree to price fixes, and certainly they would not stick to them. Guys are going to buy luxuries they crave, but are going to look for the best price on them. Rants may make a person feel better, but may make one feel worse. SOLUTIONS must be individual based on innovation and diversification. Melissa mentioned diversification into another job market. I do that too...and expand to different service angles. I try innovations  in my business to stimulate new clients. Ladies might do that, or some kind of innovation to retain regular clients ( and I don't have any clue what that might be for you ladies, but you might have ideas on it). It is what it is. That fact often sucks.....but does not make it less true.

  As for folks getting all personal, insulting, upset, rowdy, angry etc.......Cut the bullshit. This is a BUSINESS.....not your personal boyfriends and girlfriends, so all the emotional outrage is just a load of shit that does not have any sensible place.

 

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35 minutes ago, BadBoy said:

Lucy, why don't you just raise your rates?  Seems like a better solution than constantly bitching on TOB about what a cheap bunch of SOBs we are for paying the rates that you advertise and apparently think are too low.

If you think you are worth $500 per hour, go ahead and raise your rates - your income will skyrocket and you will be much happier, and hopefully quieter.

LOL one thread is constantly bitching? You seem smart enough to actually understand what I am trying to say so why don't you? It doesn't matter how I phrase it for some because they can't just resist taking that jab at me. I never called anyone cheap for paying my rates, I specifically kept myself out of this for that reason. 

If you don't want to hear what I have to say you can use the mute button but it seems you don't want to do that because then you wouldn't have the chance to write gentlemanly posts like this. 

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4 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

It is not a hot spot for escorts. It's a cheap spot. It's not just more ladies to compete with, my cost of living has risen %40 since 2010 but rates have stagnated. 

According to the American Institute for Economic Research, the COLA for $100 in 2010 to 2017 is $111.93.  The federal government relies on this when calculating the COLA.

https://www.aier.org/cost-living-calculator

 

 

 

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I agree Lucy. My bills are $6000 and so far, this month with me running a special even, I am still over $3000 in the hole, and due to busting my butt am now icing my back because it has gone out due to some guy being tough to get off and making me bust my ass for almost nothing. I am over it! I like a good portion of my regulars and will be nice to them, but starting the new year, I am heading to better paying cities, and raising my rates because I am tired  of barely making ends meet and sweating about if things are going to get paid because  Colorado doesn't meet other city's rate pricing. I see ladies charging $400 plus coming here and doing well so yes, the market is here. Us ladies need to quit thinking it isn't. Also, I will be finding other consistent income and focusing on school too as I just don't see this being something that I will be doing for much longer. Turning 40 soon is making me want to turn over a new leaf, and I am so ready for changes. 

I thought doing FBSM would be so much fun, but all it has done is caused me to gain weight due to my chronic back problems, and I am done living this way...physically busting my butt for little pay. I am not going to be unreasonable about my pricing, but when I got into this business 14 years ago, I wanted this to keep me from living paycheck to paycheck, and that is what it has turned to.  Just over it!

Yes, I know some guys will say to drop my bills...well, that would mean I would have to get rid of my incall, and if I did that...my bills would be more. Hotels and traveling are way more expensive. Heck, condoms even cost more! I am doing everything I can, but there are some things I can't get rid of. I know I am not the only gal with this problem. If I could get an incall for $600 a month again, that would be great, but it won't happen in Colorado.

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

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1 hour ago, BadBoy said:

Lucy, why don't you just raise your rates?  Seems like a better solution than constantly bitching on TOB about what a cheap bunch of SOBs we are for paying the rates that you advertise and apparently think are too low.

If you think you are worth $500 per hour, go ahead and raise your rates - your income will skyrocket and you will be much happier, and hopefully quieter.

It just gets fucking OLD! If it's not about rates. It's about something that another person, man or woman, has a different opinion from hers! It's hard to take one seriously if they have all the correct answers!

There is one lady in our community who has pulled up her boot straps up and has achieved and dedicated herself to higher education, and her future looks quite noble! Another that retired because she pursued her education and her dream after graduating. Another lady left TOB because she opened up her own private business. Then I know of another who is looking into other cities that may be a better match for her because Denver isn't the niche market for her.

I high five those who strive, pursue, and achieve for their success. As with any math equation. There are many solutions to a problem. But to continually be a Debbie Downer and cast negativity is no solution! Being positive helps one further themselves in life.........  

Haven't we learned by now that talking about rates just go sideways!? As I don't want to hear guys saying that Malibu Barbie is too much for them. We all have rates that work for our budgets. There are many variables on men and women's plate in this world of ours. So it's never a one size fits all.......

And lastly, I personally am too affected by higher taxes and how much the cost of living in Denver has gotten so out of control! I pay a great deal in taxes multiple times on multiple levels continually in a calendar year! And even as a bed wetting tree hugging liberal I know it's my duty as a tax paying citizen.  

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35 minutes ago, SultryKitten said:

I agree Lucy. My bills are $6000 and so far, this month with me running a special even, I am still over $3000 in the hole, and due to busting my butt am now icing my back because it has gone out due to some guy being tough to get off and making me bust my ass for almost nothing. I am over it! I like a good portion of my regulars and will be nice to them, but starting the new year, I am heading to better paying cities, and raising my rates because I am tired  of barely making ends meet and sweating about if things are going to get paid because  Colorado doesn't meet other city's rate pricing. I see ladies charging $400 plus coming here and doing well so yes, the market is here. Us ladies need to quit thinking it isn't. Also, I will be finding other consistent income and focusing on school too as I just don't see this being something that I will be doing for much longer. Turning 40 soon is making me want to turn over a new leaf, and I am so ready for changes. 

I thought doing FBSM would be so much fun, but all it has done is caused me to gain weight due to my chronic back problems, and I am done living this way...physically busting my butt for little pay. I am not going to be unreasonable about my pricing, but when I got into this business 14 years ago, I wanted this to keep me from living paycheck to paycheck, and that is what it has turned to.  Just over it!

Yes, I know some guys will say to drop my bills...well, that would mean I would have to get rid of my incall, and if I did that...my bills would be more. Hotels and traveling are way more expensive. Heck, condoms even cost more! I am doing everything I can, but there are some things I can't get rid of. I know I am not the only gal with this problem. If I could get an incall for $600 a month again, that would be great, but it won't happen in Colorado.

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

I sincerely hope you are right about that. My concern would be however, that when a new lady visits for a week or two, she is a new "flavor of the month" and is going to generate business from the fair number of "newness seekers". Continuously generating $400 an hour business from regulars, and locals? Thats something else. Again, I hope you can, but I am skeptical. Most all of you ladies are pretty business saavy, and I just have to believe if you all COULD do that, you would already be doing it.

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I dare to dream about $400/Hr:eek: That would be so great for my bank account.  

I wonder how many regulars you would have on a weekly/biweekly basis?  I wonder if you would have mostly first time meetings?  If you didn’t have many regulars I would think the potential to make more money would be at a lower price point.  Just my silly thoughts.

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When looking at the ads here on TOB, I see most ladies rates are in the $250-$350 range.  A few advertise $400-$700.  A few advertise $200 with specials that run in $150-$160 range. 

I see ads from visiting ladies (mainly the ones from Texas) who come up here and charge $200 and they are happy to get that. Some want $250, some want $500.

To me, the ladies that charge $200 regularly are undercutting the rest of the ladies. 

So I'll ask the question again...Lucy, what do you think an acceptable rate is?

And is that acceptable rate based on certain standards?

Some ladies have very nice incall apartments.  Some utilize hotels...some nice hotels and some motel 6's.  Others have apartments where you would want to keep eyes on your car at all times in fear of it being broken into or stolen.

Where does it all begin and end?

Are you trying to say that all the ladies should have a minimum price point that ALL the ladies adhere to?

 

 

Edited by ilovewomen
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Just as a side note- I have never payed the advertised rate ( after I become a regular so to speak ) I always leave more than requested.

A tip if you will.

In my mind it states: I care about you. Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for being here when I needed you, for being who you are, for being my friend. ( I could go on and on  but you get the idea )

But that's just me.

The last time I left more, she actually said ...no no..you can't do that.

I smiled and left it right where I put it.

A Smile and a Tip !

Mr Purple

 

 

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1 hour ago, Admiral C said:

I sincerely hope you are right about that. My concern would be however, that when a new lady visits for a week or two, she is a new "flavor of the month" and is going to generate business from the fair number of "newness seekers". Continuously generating $400 an hour business from regulars, and locals? Thats something else. Again, I hope you can, but I am skeptical. Most all of you ladies are pretty business saavy, and I just have to believe if you all COULD do that, you would already be doing it.

I should have clarified...that was making a general consensus on what I have seen ladies advertising that are visiting(not all, just some). Some ladies are charging that amount and getting it. Me, I will not be charging that much, but I know it is in the market here for some and it is not unrealistic that clients are paying it. I agree that I think $200 is undercharging, and I will be changing that after the holidays because I like to keep my word. Other ladies will charge what they feel is best, but I agree with Lucy.

Xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

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Man, I have no idea where you all are coming up with $150 - $200 rates!  Apparently somewhere I never look.  Sure some FBSM gals charge those rates, but I have never seen an Escort charge that low.  I don't think I have ever visited an Escort who charges less than $250/hour, and most of the ladies I see charge between $300 and $400/hour, and are damned worth every penny.  They seem to do pretty well too, or at least they say they do when we discuss the business, which is not often.

I note that the same ladies are always the ones grumbling about low rates, etc.  I wonder if the problem is not with the Denver men, but with those particular ladies.

I'm also with Mr. Purple (and I still say that his is the most bitchin' avatar), in that I never haggle, negotiate or take advantage of "specials."  I just pay the advertised rack rate, and often leave a tip in addition.  Are the rest of the gentlemen in this town really that different, or do certain ladies just seem to attract hagglers?  I don't really know, but it occurs to me whenever I see a rate thread.

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Like BB here,  I in 12 years playing here , have never ever been with a lady here for less the $250.00 and always have left a $50. - $100.00 tip.    Thanks again ladies 

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I've set my limit on what I I will pay. My two favorite providers raised their rate above the agreement I made with myself on donations. I was broken hearted when that happened.  I don't know if supply and demand holds true in this business. I also had an illusion that the providers here are raking it in but that must not be the case. I assumed you had three clients a day x$$$$ would be a great day. I really have no clue and it's improper for me to even ask. 

I am grateful to the providers on this forum. 

Happy Thanksgiving!

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3 hours ago, ilovewomen said:

According to the American Institute for Economic Research, the COLA for $100 in 2010 to 2017 is $111.93.  The federal government relies on this when calculating the COLA.

https://www.aier.org/cost-living-calculator

 

 

 

The virtually meaningless Everyday Price Index you link to does NOT include housing or purchases of appliances, furniture, cars, transportation, etc. but rather ONLY "every day purchases"  A house I could buy for $150K where I live goes for around $300K in Springs and around $500K in Denver metro, higher in western burbs.  Housing costs have sky rocketed, and ladies trying to have a home and a separate incall get hammered twice.  Indexes that only look at one small piece of what it takes to live are dangerous because they totally misrepresent reality by minimizing inflationary costs.  And thus can be used by gov to "justify" 0.2 percent increase in social security - or this year a whopping  whole 2 percent!! 

 

Most of us that work for a living have the "luxury" of not having people bitch daily about our wages and trying to get us to go home with less. (Yes, I know many own their own small business guys do, but others, nope).  Escorts get it every day relentlessly from both serious clients and fucktards just getting their kicks from jacking with them.  I have no magic answer for what anyone's rates "should be" because everyone's needs and market and circumstances are different.  But to understand how much many ladies in the biz are hurting is not rocket science.  When I started lurking around these parts 10 years ago the going rates were 200-250 with out-lyers at 150 and 400.  But vast majority around 225.  Now what I see are rates of 250 to 300 with out-lyers at 200 and 400.  That very minor increase pales in comparison to the cost of most everything else.  Pretty simple.

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