Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, gr8owl said: I consider myself a Libertarian and was at least as offended by the SPLC as Yorick. I understand that the SPLC did not ORIGINATE the lame attempt to connect the Libertarian party (PARTY not movement) to the despicable and disgusting assemblage of nazis and their ilk that showed up in Charlottesville and that are quite active all over. Kessler is obviously a cluelesss idiot who was trying to achieve some legitimacy by implying a legitimate party with legitimate views (whether you agree with them or not) had the slightest sympathy for his bullshit, when reality is we don't. But it is inexcusable for the SPLC to just repeat half of Kessler's crap WITHOUT clarifying the inaccuracy of his bullshit when the SPLC wishes to tout itself as a foremost and reliable (should read accurate!!) source of information on such matters. To be clear, from the Libertarian Party itself, what I consider to be a pretty clear and unequivocal stand on the matter: https://www.lp.org/libertarians-condemn-bigotry-irrational-repugnant/ I'm afraid you didn't completely understand my point. I don't believe the SPLC was trying to draw a connection between the Libertarian Party, which is a well-defined organization, a political party that holds conventions and runs candidates, or even the less well-defined Libertarian movement, and any of the following: Kessler's "Unite the Right" Rally, White Nationalists, NeoNazis, sick misfits using guns cars etc to commit horrible acts of violence, demagogues who influence those misfits ... As I explained in detail, a very short article on the SPLC site about "flags and symbols" of far-right groups only contained the WORDS "Libertarian" and "libertarianism", one usage of each word, because the article was discussing a set of WORDS (acronyms) and symbols on a poster advertising the rally. That just isn't the same as making an accusation that the Libertarian Party itself has some connection to far-right groups. Consider also the following possibility: Kessler deliberately tossed the word "Libertarian" into his comments as a TRAP, hoping that some organization would repeat that word, ideally a left-of-center or "progressive" org. And then the org lured into the trap could be accused of making a false accusation against the Libertarian Party. It worked. Just one more source of dissension and distrust on our political scene. Don't tell me that's too wild a theory: the "alt right" isn't good at much, but they've become good at certain kinds of tricks on the internet. And finally, there's the interesting fact that Kessler deleted the key Twitter link a short while ago. Why? People delete stuff for a reason. Edited August 19, 2017 by N6_in_the_village 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 19, 2017 1 hour ago, N6_in_the_village said: I'm afraid you didn't completely understand my point. I don't believe the SPLC was trying to draw a connection between the Libertarian Party, which is a well-defined organization, a political party that holds conventions and runs candidates, or even the less well-defined Libertarian movement, and any of the following: Kessler's "Unite the Right" Rally, White Nationalists, NeoNazis, sick misfits using guns cars etc to commit horrible acts of violence, demagogues who influence those misfits ... And finally, there's the interesting fact that Kessler deleted the key Twitter link a short while ago. Why? People delete stuff for a reason. Because he was called on his bullshit I understood your point perfectly well. My point is that a responsible site specializing in which group believes what (as SPLC claims) is TOTALLY irresponsible when it re-posts crap from fringe groups without giving the reader any clarification/fact check. Blindly repeating bullshit is how the general populace comes to believe bullshit is fact (the number one overriding problem we have this day and age). They were not trying to make a connection, but by their laziness were helping Kessler try to make a (totally erroneous) connection and helping him to falsely legitimize his crap. I simply wanted to get the plain and simple truth of the matter out there and therefore posted a link to the "L" and their very specific stance. I couldn't care less what SPLC OR Kessler think, but I would like accurate info out there relative to a group I associate with. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/19/2017 at 2:12 PM, gr8owl said: I understood your point perfectly well. My point is that a responsible site specializing in which group believes what (as SPLC claims) is TOTALLY irresponsible when it re-posts crap from fringe groups without giving the reader any clarification/fact check. Blindly repeating bullshit is how the general populace comes to believe bullshit is fact (the number one overriding problem we have this day and age). They were not trying to make a connection, but by their laziness were helping Kessler try to make a (totally erroneous) connection and helping him to falsely legitimize his crap. I simply wanted to get the plain and simple truth of the matter out there and therefore posted a link to the "L" and their very specific stance. I couldn't care less what SPLC OR Kessler think, but I would like accurate info out there relative to a group I associate with. I think we're almost in agreement :-) I mentioned that my respect for SPLC diminished before these events, especially because of their bad judgement in labeling certain people as anti-Moslem extremists who aren't. So it's not surprising they would publish something based on propaganda from an actual extremist group without thinking enough about implications of repeating parts of the propaganda. I just put more emphasis on the tactics people like Kessler use to "weaponize" political discussions. "Blindly repeating bullshit is how the general populace comes to believe bullshit is fact (the number one overriding problem we have this day and age)." Yes, but also because most people are lazy in their consumption of news. They choose to look only at information streams that reinforce their existing beliefs, they don't put any effort into checking multiple sources, they immediately believe that latest shocking story published or repeated by whoever if it makes them happy by reinforcing their beliefs. I don't mean to be a "shill", but you might be interested in a recent book that discusses these themes, "The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge And Why It Matters" by Tom Nichols. The author is a professor at the Naval War College whose political orientation is moderate to conservative Republican and is strongly anti-Trump. Also a five-time Jeopardy winner ;-) https://www.amazon.com/Death-Expertise-Campaign-Established-Knowledge/dp/0190469412 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
