pejo

Asking an FBSM provider for "legit" massage work

23 posts in this topic

So, I set an appointment today with a provider that advertises in the legit massage section of backpage (her ads have been there forever, and I don't remember if she was in the "body rubs" section or the legit section before BP removed the body rub section). Her ad makes it very clear she has rules. Also, she has no reviews anywhere. She likes to have a phone call screen with new clients. So far so good.

I call her. We talk. We have an appointment set up. Things are going great. Then I say, "I have a question. I have some shoulder and neck pain that really benefits from therapeutic-level massage. Is that something we can incorporate into the session?"

At which point she FREAKS OUT, gets angry at me and the phone call ends like this: "No way. I can't do that. I would have to be a CMT to do that. And if I was a CMT who offered sensual massage I would lose my license. So nevermind. We're done. Goodbye." [CLICK]

So, apparently she thought I was the CMT police! LOL. (That is pretty damn funny, given my range of interactions with "legit" CMTs, much of which I'd prefer never be entered into evidence.)

Anyway, at first I was pissed and now I just think it's absurdly funny.  

I guess the PSA here is never ask for "legit" services during a screening call!

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12 minutes ago, pejo said:

So, I set an appointment today with a provider that advertises in the legit massage section of backpage (her ads have been there forever, and I don't remember if she was in the "body rubs" section or the legit section before BP removed the body rub section). Her ad makes it very clear she has rules. Also, she has no reviews anywhere. She likes to have a phone call screen with new clients. So far so good.

I call her. We talk. We have an appointment set up. Things are going great. Then I say, "I have a question. I have some shoulder and neck pain that really benefits from therapeutic-level massage. Is that something we can incorporate into the session?"

At which point she FREAKS OUT, gets angry at me and the phone call ends like this: "No way. I can't do that. I would have to be a CMT to do that. And if I was a CMT who offered sensual massage I would lose my license. So nevermind. We're done. Goodbye." [CLICK]

So, apparently she thought I was the CMT police! LOL. (That is pretty damn funny, given my range of interactions with "legit" CMTs, much of which I'd prefer never be entered into evidence.)

Anyway, at first I was pissed and now I just think it's absurdly funny.  

I guess the PSA here is never ask for "legit" services during a screening call!

Maybe she thought you were going to ask for her certificate number? I guess I am too bold? Because all of my certificates (majority of them) hanging on my studio wall. The rest are in the laundry room with my college B. A. and a high school diploma. 

Should I not do this? 

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LOL. She said she wasn't a CMT, so I would be asking her to do something "wrong" by requesting legit massage work from her. Which makes no sense, given the end of the session involves her hands making the client's semen spray everywhere.

As for all your certificates on the wall of your studio, I think the issue is trusting your clients with your real name (assuming that is what is on the certificates). I, personally, would move them for that reason. But, you do you, and what you are comfortable with.

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OP handled this all wrong. Yes, a person can get ticketed for practicing/adverting "massage" without certification/license in CO, so, he could be LE trying to get her. And then we get to the whole talking about services over the phone angle: by broaching non-sensual services, now kind of implying that there is a naughty component to this all. Just more ammo that DAs can bring to a case, if the lady gets caught in one or the other side of things (or both). Kinda like an escort being busted for not having the license: she might not have done anything to get a prostitution charge, but damnit, they know what REALLY is going on, so, will get them with some other charge.

Basically, if one needs a legit massage (not saying a body rubber does not have the touch to work the non-naughty kinks out), go see a LMT/CMT. If going for the fun side of things, if the lady asks about any trouble spots, then bring up the knotted up areas. Otherwise, keep the phone call to how much and what time.

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Except I've asked this question probably five times in the past, to other providers by phone or text, who were more than happy to accommodate me. So, if I get 5 yeses for every no, it's worth asking the question. I just kinda enjoyed the humor in it so I thought I'd share it with the board.

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2 hours ago, NoCoGeezer said:

OP handled this all wrong. Yes, a person can get ticketed for practicing/adverting "massage" without certification/license in CO, so, he could be LE trying to get her. And then we get to the whole talking about services over the phone angle: by broaching non-sensual services, now kind of implying that there is a naughty component to this all. Just more ammo that DAs can bring to a case, if the lady gets caught in one or the other side of things (or both). Kinda like an escort being busted for not having the license: she might not have done anything to get a prostitution charge, but damnit, they know what REALLY is going on, so, will get them with some other charge.

Basically, if one needs a legit massage (not saying a body rubber does not have the touch to work the non-naughty kinks out), go see a LMT/CMT. If going for the fun side of things, if the lady asks about any trouble spots, then bring up the knotted up areas. Otherwise, keep the phone call to how much and what time.

^^^^ Exactly...I've heard a provider can get in much more trouble for offering massage without a license along with the other part than just offering the other part...I think it's safe to say in this business, just don't discuss any services, ever.  Just my opinion.

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11 hours ago, pejo said:

LOL. She said she wasn't a CMT, so I would be asking her to do something "wrong" by requesting legit massage work from her. Which makes no sense, given the end of the session involves her hands making the client's semen spray everywhere.

As for all your certificates on the wall of your studio, I think the issue is trusting your clients with your real name (assuming that is what is on the certificates). I, personally, would move them for that reason. But, you do you, and what you are comfortable with.

You can't offer CMT without proper education and a license. Sounds like she became paranoid. In her eyes it's always better to be safe than sorry. 

Edited by Nikki Holiday
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Grrr... let the free market sort this kind of crap out.  You want to see a fully trained masseuse?  You ask to see their training and certifications and pay the rates commensurate with their training.  The gov't has no damn business getting in the way.  

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Actually, you can do legit work, but you have to inform the client if you are licensed or not. So, if a cop came in and was getting a massage and asks, you have to inform him if you are or not. Also, if you are not certified, you have to say you will provide a body rub not a massage. If they are certified and doing "more", they can get arrested for breaking license regulations, and they will lose their license which you almost never get back. If they are not certified, and pretend they are they can get arrested for solicitating and operating without a license. Oh, and don't confuse CMT for LMT...they are different as well. One is licensed, the other is certified but not licensed. You first go to school to get certified, then once you get that, you go to your state and get licensed. This is different in every state due to what they require for you to practice. Fun laws we have!

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

Edited by SultryKitten
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4 hours ago, FuriousWeasel said:

Grrr... let the free market sort this kind of crap out.  You want to see a fully trained masseuse?  You ask to see their training and certifications and pay the rates commensurate with their training.  The gov't has no damn business getting in the way.  

Masseuse are not trained, massage therapists are. The word "masseuse" got a bad name due to their reputation with sexual favors so they changed their name professionally to "massage therapist". Most massage therapists will fly off the handle if you call them that.

Also, don't forget the people like me that do "alternative therapy" like reflexology, reiki, shiatsu,etc. We take great pride in our specialty and are annoyed when people are ignorant about it. They expect us to classify ourselves as massage therapist when we do more specific work. It is very frustrating when someone gets annoyed that you are doing your specialty, and wants you to do something that you DON'T specialize in. Like me, for instance, finds swedish boring, but I can't count how many clients request it and then are confused when I tell them my specialty is deep tissue with reflexology and reiki. I spent a lot of money and time to practice andlearn those skills...kind of insulting!

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

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50 minutes ago, SultryKitten said:

Masseuse are not trained, massage therapists are. The word "masseuse" got a bad name due to their reputation with sexual favors so they changed their name professionally to "massage therapist". Most massage therapists will fly off the handle if you call them that.

Also, don't forget the people like me that do "alternative therapy" like reflexology, reiki, shiatsu,etc. We take great pride in our specialty and are annoyed when people are ignorant about it. They expect us to classify ourselves as massage therapist when we do more specific work. It is very frustrating when someone gets annoyed that you are doing your specialty, and wants you to do something that you DON'T specialize in. Like me, for instance, finds swedish boring, but I can't count how many clients request it and then are confused when I tell them my specialty is deep tissue with reflexology and reiki. I spent a lot of money and time to practice andlearn those skills...kind of insulting!

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

My beef is the protectionism that comes into play with most careers that require licensing, and of course the gov't getting into things that they have no legitimate business doing.  The only time the gov't should interfere is with fraud.   So when I look for what I need, I should be able to look at the available options, see the advertising for what private certifications and training someone has, and select based off of that.  If someone is lying about their qualifications, then that's fraud, and that's what I have no problem with the cops coming in.  But not preemptively saying who is and who isn't allowed to do something, essentially based on if they pay for the privilege.  

I go for deep tissue to help my particular issue every 3 weeks or so, and I chose someone based on their qualifications, not their license.  I might have chosen the wrong word, didn't mean any insult, but I'm pretty out of it today...

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3 hours ago, FuriousWeasel said:

My beef is the protectionism that comes into play with most careers that require licensing, and of course the gov't getting into things that they have no legitimate business doing.  The only time the gov't should interfere is with fraud.   So when I look for what I need, I should be able to look at the available options, see the advertising for what private certifications and training someone has, and select based off of that.  If someone is lying about their qualifications, then that's fraud, and that's what I have no problem with the cops coming in.  But not preemptively saying who is and who isn't allowed to do something, essentially based on if they pay for the privilege.  

I go for deep tissue to help my particular issue every 3 weeks or so, and I chose someone based on their qualifications, not their license.  I might have chosen the wrong word, didn't mean any insult, but I'm pretty out of it today...

When I advertise for professional massage,I make it clear specifically what I do. I don't allow other options, and I see people do that a lot. They will have all these options, and not be that good at their profession.

In this business, I am more inclined to make it more swedish because guys are wanting to relax and then be teased...it is kind of tough to do that with deep tissue. If they ask for it specifically though, I do what I do best.

A lot of people don't know the differences or don't care, but when you go to school they present you with lots of options, and then can choose many avenues to go when you graduate. There is so much to massage that people don't realize, and the hours and hard labor spent to get your certification/degree is one that the few earn. It isn't taken lightly with the ones that take it seriously and go through the "hands on process" to achieve those qualifications. I could go into detail, but it would bore you. Trust me when I say that those ladies and gents will do their damnest to not lose those licenses.

Yes, the government is nosey!

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

P.S. You didn't insult dear.

Edited by SultryKitten
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As I recall, it's 700 hrs minimum for certification (varies state to state).

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1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

As I recall, it's 700 hrs minimum for certification (varies state to state).

That is just for basic stuff to do standard massage. Anything Trigger Point, Cranial Sacral, acupuncture, somatic, psychosomatic, etc. requires more.

Xoxo 

Samantha Sheppard

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Then why have girls gotten tickets from vice for not having a massage license? After reading this IDK. I think I'll educate myself futher on this. Times have also changed. Laws change over time too.

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3 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said:

Then why have girls gotten tickets from vice for not having a massage license? After reading this IDK. I think I'll educate myself futher on this. Times have also changed. Laws change over time too.

Please do! It is always a great idea to know the laws and your rights.

I know plenty of cases where people get summons for supposedly breaking the law, and because they didn't know the law and their rights, the cops get away with it. So does the court because they don't get an attorney. I wish people would do their homework and know what to do in these types of scenarios, but alas people just focus more on hoping that they don't get caught.

Xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

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23 minutes ago, SultryKitten said:

Please do! It is always a great idea to know the laws and your rights.

I know plenty of cases where people get summons for supposedly breaking the law, and because they didn't know the law and their rights, the cops get away with it. So does the court because they don't get an attorney. I wish people would do their homework and know what to do in these types of scenarios, but alas people just focus more on hoping that they don't get caught.

Xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

I know the law on escorting. Iv already got a bail bondsmens and laywer on my side if I run into trouble. Iv always said consult a lawyer before you break the law not after. Lol 

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On 5/7/2017 at 4:14 PM, pejo said:

LOL. She said she wasn't a CMT, so I would be asking her to do something "wrong" by requesting legit massage work from her. Which makes no sense, given the end of the session involves her hands making the client's semen spray everywhere.

As for all your certificates on the wall of your studio, I think the issue is trusting your clients with your real name (assuming that is what is on the certificates). I, personally, would move them for that reason. But, you do you, and what you are comfortable with.

Too many other ways to find my "real name, info" I have my Usui certificates hanging. Have yet to have trouble from anyone outing me. Massage listens in a drawer. Tarot on the wall. Been in this biz long enough (not that I am totally free of anything). However I have been good with leaving them up. 

Strange girl you saw. Read it over again what you wrote Pedjo.

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22 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

As I recall, it's 700 hrs minimum for certification (varies state to state).

700 hours from Colorado School of Massage. Yes Bit that is correct. Have to go to the Sat testing facility to do your test to get your official certificate and to be recognized by the state. 

Edited by Kali Sensual Reiki
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There are a couple of Chinese places I go to where the girls actually give a decent massage then offer a HJ at the end but they stayed clothed when they do it.

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On 5/8/2017 at 8:01 AM, FuriousWeasel said:

Grrr... let the free market sort this kind of crap out.  You want to see a fully trained masseuse?  You ask to see their training and certifications and pay the rates commensurate with their training.  The gov't has no damn business getting in the way.  

But the Goverment does get in the way- Ligetamcy is important in the health industry. Going and getting a liget massage with health related issues is very important. Although there are those few people that are great at giving massages. Without official verification. I hear you Ferious! Tottally see your angle on it. Just that one case move twist you name it and the provider is being sued! Just a huge shame too, but having the credibility of a liscens is important. You would not like a a medical doctor to work on you without one. Scary stuff I agree. 

Provider body rub works out the kinky kinks. CMT works out the medical issues both are awesome! Both individuals will make you feel better too!!

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1 hour ago, Kali Sensual Reiki said:

But the Goverment does get in the way- Ligetamcy is important in the health industry. Going and getting a liget massage with health related issues is very important. Although there are those few people that are great at giving massages. Without official verification. I hear you Ferious! Tottally see your angle on it. Just that one case move twist you name it and the provider is being sued! Just a huge shame too, but having the credibility of a liscens is important. You would not like a a medical doctor to work on you without one. Scary stuff I agree. 

Provider body rub works out the kinky kinks. CMT works out the medical issues both are awesome! Both individuals will make you feel better too!!

I think that the legitimacy should come from independent certification groups.  They're the ones that should say "If you log 700 hours, take 3 of our classes, and pass a comprehensive test, then you you get our certification saying that you're trained, and can use our logo on your advertising."  

I'm going to quote a friend of mine, who is an incredible thinker, on the role of the state in things such as this:

Quote

Those of us who understand and believe in individual rights, sometimes have a hard time understanding those who don't... Particularly those who claim they do, but in actuality do not.

The reason is because they do not know what individual rights are, or believe they actually exist.

One might ask how this could possibly be true in America today... But only if one has always lived and worked in a free state.

I grew up mostly in Massachusetts, which is likely the least free state in this country, though New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii are all contenders.

In Massachusetts your rights are not treated as rights, they are treated as privileges granted to you by the state, which you must beg and pay for, and which they can take away at any time for any reason, including none at all.

It doesn't matter what right we are speaking of, the state arrogated to itself the right to violate or abrogate them at will.

This is what we mean by a free state, vs. a non-free state.

But if you have always lived in a world where the state, or other people, have a vote or a veto over your rights, you will naturally consider that to be the way of things... Whether you consciously think you do or not.

Your fundamental assumption, will be that of the subject, who has no rights, but instead privileges and immunities granted to you by the state, and at the consent of others. You will naturally believe this applies to all rights, and all people.

It may shock you when you move to a free state, and find that this is not so... Or at least people seem to believe it is not so... Often when presented with the evidence of this, such people continue to refuse to believe.

No thank you... My individual rights are just that... They are rights, possessed by me, and inherent to my by my nature as a sentient being. They are mine, and no man gets a vote or say on whether I possess them. They are not granted me by the state, nor can the state take them away. They have the power to violate or abrogate them, but they cannot take them away.

 

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3 hours ago, FuriousWeasel said:

I think that the legitimacy should come from independent certification groups.  They're the ones that should say "If you log 700 hours, take 3 of our classes, and pass a comprehensive test, then you you get our certification saying that you're trained, and can use our logo on your advertising."  

I'm going to quote a friend of mine, who is an incredible thinker, on the role of the state in things such as this:

 

Understand your feelings totally.  Just like it is within my rights to display my certificates or make a choice to display only a few that I wish. 

However, if you have a state liscens  that deems you as passing a very aggressive state board test. Yes that says a great deal. You also will have fewer problems getting insured with being registered with the state too. Does it mean that this individual is better at giving a massage? I think that within it's self still falls into personal preference catagory once again. Is it desires for sexual touch or is it to let go of physical pain? Can you service both nèds together? Yep! When you are a lucky client!😀😀

Beauty is still in the eye's of the beholder.

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