jhooker

Serious question

137 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Nope sorry, there are limits to expressing your opinion. What he expressed in his OP wasn't an opinion it was actually ignorance.  So basically what your saying and your understanding of free speech is that people should not push back on opinions that are hateful or hurtful? ...

Can you point out all the times in history that peaceful protest actually accomplished something? ....

1) I have NOT seen Hacksaw Ridge. The medic I mentioned was in my squad in PleiKu. As improbable as that may seem.

2) I did NOT say that those offended should just suck it up. They are free to respond in kind. But they do not have the right to silence the offender. The alternative is for them to also be silenced. ("First they came for...")

3) Two prominent examples of effective, peaceful protests in the 20th century: Ghandi & Dr. ML King, Jr.

Edited by Bit Banger
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Nope sorry, there are limits to expressing your opinion. What he expressed in his OP wasn't an opinion it was actually ignorance.  So basically what your saying and your understanding of free speech is that people should not push back on opinions that are hateful or hurtful? That gay people should just suck it up because he's entitled to not be silenced? You also don't get to decide what type of protest you fought for and you definitely are trying to silence people when you explain to them what sort of protest is allowed. So confusing, so war is OK. Men in Vietnam killing lots of innocent people, our troops coming home as hollowed out shells of men and lifetimes of physical and mental problems but we should keep our protests peaceful? Can you point out all the times in history that peaceful protest actually accomplished something?

I will also condemn this as slightly homophobic. By protecting the OP's ignorant opinions on homosexuality you are ignoring the LGBTQs that are hurt by that kind of thinking. Sometimes it's not about people being too PC sometimes it's about people being ignorant and insensitive. Being worried that the "gays" are out to recruit your adult son and using the excuse I came from a different time is weak.

I don't see any PC hypocrisy in this thread. Just people that were rightly offended by insensitive comments. And arguments from the anti-PC crowd to protect their right to be offensive and call it free speech. The OP asked a fully loaded question and to expect everyone to ignore all that he wrote and focus on whether or not he should hire a chick for his son is laughable.

 

Ya know Lucy...for the kind of lady I like, you are hotter than a 2 dollar pistol....BUT...I have a bunch of disagreements with this. Regardless of the fact that current PC views agree with yours on Hook's views being "actual ignorance" and "hateful and hurtful" ...THOSE are still  OPINIONS....as are his.  The comment about being entitled to "not be silenced" is the antithesis of tolerance. That is basically deciding that one view is correct and therefore it is OK to "silence" an opposite view.....which is exactly what "homophobes"( ugh) of the past would do to pro gay speakers. Non peaceful protests are not protests...they are called "riots". Rioting is not constitutionally protected and all IT accomplishes is injuries, death, destruction, anger, and arrests.

Fact is, way too many people are easily offended. It is all too common for people to engage in inappropriate acts or responses...equally  bad, or worse than the "original offenders". excused by..."yeah, but it's ok cuz they spoke first AND I am right". Truth is always a three edged sword.                     

Edited by Admiral C
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think about this........so far the only person being called names here is me

The mob rules

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

1) I have NOT seen Hacksaw Ridge. The medic I mentioned was in my squad in PleiKu. As improbable as that may seem.

2) I did NOT say that those offended should just suck it up. They are free to respond in kind. But they do not have the right to silence the offender. The alternative is for them to also be silenced. ("First they came for...")

3) Two prominent examples of effective, peaceful protests in the 20th century: Ghandi & Dr. ML King, Jr.

The offender can only be silenced if he chooses to do so. Who here really has the authority to silence his opinions? The mods and it seems that all his opinions are still here and he keeps commenting.

They came for our homophobia and we said good fucking riddance take it so we can be done with it. You can simultaneously defend free speech while condemning ignorance. It's possible.

Non-violent does not equate to peaceful. BTW.

 

Edited by Lucy Kitten
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jhooker said:

A few of you are fucking assholes though, but it takes all kinds. 

 

 

32 minutes ago, jhooker said:

Right man, today's progressives are yesterdays Klan

 

4 minutes ago, jhooker said:

Think about this........so far the only person being called names here is me

The mob rules

Sure, we'll go with that

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting back to the question...here is a suggestion. Hows about you arrange a small b-day party as it were with some of his friends that you know. I suggest only male friends for this particular bash. Provide some booze and tasty food. Buy him some kind of gift and at the pre-ordained time, have that package delivered by a postally dressed, or UPS dressed stripper. Now she can do a nice, enticing strip tease. This stays "inside certain line"....gives insight into which way the wind blows"....might open a sexual dialogue. It also makes a great eye roll story later ( especially if it is a little embarassing) .

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

 

 

Sure, we'll go with that

some of you....is a general address at no one in particular vs personal address , but if you want to own it so far your a good candidate 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucy, The OP doesn't know he's ignorant and actually thinks he's a victim of vicious attacks by the PC police simply because others are sharing their thoughts of his intolerance.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jhooker said:

some of you....is a general address at no one in particular vs personal address , but if you want to own it so far your a good candidate 

Simply because I disagree with you and have defended your right to your opinion?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Biological grandmother. Don't have to have a partner to be a parent. Don't have to conceive in the traditional way to be a parent.

None of her children are interested in procreating, by conventional means or otherwise. Nor are they in relationships which could lead to adoption. 

So my sister laments that she'll never be a grandmother. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This entire thread is just a human disappointment.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

1) I have NOT seen Hacksaw Ridge. The medic I mentioned was in my squad in PleiKu. As improbable as that may seem.

2) I did NOT say that those offended should just suck it up. They are free to respond in kind. But they do not have the right to silence the offender. The alternative is for them to also be silenced. ("First they came for...")

3) Two prominent examples of effective, peaceful protests in the 20th century: Ghandi & Dr. ML King, Jr.

The medic in Hacksaw Ridge is a cousin of mine. 

Otherwise I think it is a shame this conversation went south. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, FuriousWeasel said:

The medic in Hacksaw Ridge is a cousin of mine. 

Otherwise I think it is a shame this conversation went south. 

When exactly was the moment this conversation went south in your opinion? My thoughts are the instant when the OP hit "Submit Reply"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

I have to stand with Jhooker against the PC crowd. He is entitled to both have & express his opinion regarding homosexuality. Just as those who rail against him are entitled to do the same. But consider the hypocrisy. Perhaps he finds your condemnation  hurtful. To claim that he is ignorant is ignorance itself; he may have personal experiences upon which his opinions were formed. I find the protests disrespectful of him and of the American ideal of free speech. You're more than welcome to form and express your own opinion of him, but not to order his opinion(s) silenced.

I remember standing in Lincoln Park, Chicago, August 1968, with my dress greens & beret, and explaining to a yippie that I wore the uniform to protect his right to peaceful protest. One of the people I respected most while in the service was a medic, a contientious objector, who despite (or because of) his religious beliefs was performing his duty to the country which allowed him to hold those beliefs. 

Before you condemn this post as another homophobic rant - don't. I have dear friends & family who are homosexuals. I even dabbled with it in my youth, and found myself much more strongly drawn to females. I still consider those bi-tendencies part of my hedonistic viewpoint. 

No, this rant is about the hypocrisy of the PC culture. 

Hooker posted a rant espousing slurs and urban myths but I should be concerned my measured replies may hurt his feelings? WTF? I haven't seen one dissenting opinion that wasn't far more respectful than his OP. Using the word "ignorant" isn't disrespectful when it's applicable:

ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Lacking knowledge or awareness. The definition fits his stated views, the ones you're defending, seamlessly.

By all means, BB, wrap yourself in the American flag and share a couple of irrelevant personal antedotes to support your misguided argument. Tell me how I'm being ignorant and disrespectful I am when dissenting from bigoted opinions. While you're at it please point out to me where in this thread anyone told the OP he wasn't allowed to express his myopic, or if you prefer, "classic views". 

To the OP, I answered your question in my first post but I'll clarify. I'm certain your son has a better grasp of human sexuality than you. You'll only succeed in embarrassing yourself further if you go through with your plan.

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

When exactly was the moment this conversation went south in your opinion? My thoughts are the instant when the OP hit "Submit Reply"

Well I'm focusing on what I see was the meat of the original question. I read some great thoughtful replies and hopefully folks liked some of mine.  The whole PC vs homophobic part I'm honestly not paying too much attention too since it looks like that's well covered and I'm trying to stay in a good mood today. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

When exactly was the moment this conversation went south in your opinion? My thoughts are the instant when the OP hit "Submit Reply"

I'd not say that this thread has "gone south", despite the current thread drift. There have been thoughtful comments regarding the main thrust of the OP (getting his son an escort). Mostly in the "don't do that" category. There have also been thoughtful comments on the OP's side remarks regarding homosexuality and on the whole PC culture & responses. I almost started a new thread on the later topic to avoid the thread drift. For the most part this has been a civil discussion of the issues. People should be allowed to hold & express their opinions, pro & con, w/o acrimony. One of the most difficult aspects of code inspections was to maintain the focus on 'the code' w/o getting into personal attacks & rebuttals.  Have we managed to do that here?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, FuriousWeasel said:

Well I'm focusing on what I see was the meat of the original question. I read some great thoughtful replies and hopefully folks liked some of mine.  The whole PC vs homophobic part I'm honestly not paying too much attention too since it looks like that's well covered and I'm trying to stay in a good mood today. 

That's a hell of a good idea. Getting offended and in a twist about other folks views and opinions seems to be one of the most popular activities in society.  I get the impression however, that it does not actually make people happy.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Admiral C said:

That's a hell of a good idea. Getting offended and in a twist about other folks views and opinions seems to be one of the most popular activities in society.  I get the impression however, that it does not actually make people happy.

Reasonable people can disagree without "...Getting offended and in a twist about other folks views and opinions...".

The OP asked a legitimate question regarding whether he should interject himself into his son's sexuality by buying him a hooker for his 21st birthday and the board gave him thoughtful responses ,mostly advising against it. Couched in his question was a rant about what kind of sexual activities the OP thought were acceptable. He opened up the discussion on the subject and others have given their opinions and views. Overall, I feel this discussion has been informative and for the most part, healthy.

We may disagree but we have a forum to discuss our disagreements in a civil manner without finger pointing, name calling or trying to shut down others because we happen to disagree.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

Reasonable people can disagree without "...Getting offended and in a twist about other folks views and opinions...".

...

We may disagree but we have a forum to discuss our disagreements in a civil manner without finger pointing, name calling or trying to shut down others because we happen to disagree.  

^^ this ^^

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jhooker said:

A few of you are fucking assholes though...

It only takes one of the usual suspects, we all know who "they" are, for the rest to come running, seemingly hell bent on turning a post sideways inside and out with their selective, contrarian and often obtuse opinions posed as reason, for no good reason. Rarely answering the question,  the forum quickly becomes a circus variety dunk tank, as evidenced here.

Glad to see you got some good of it.

Edited by Ile Haversnatch
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we truly believe in Freedom and the exchange of ideas? Or do we simply wish to shut down the opinions of those with which we disagree because we're not confident enough in our own views to hear something in opposition to our own? (And I would add no matter how absurd we personally view that opposing view)

I want all opinions to be heard and stand on their own merit. If we disagree, let's have that discussion in a respectful way based on a civil discourse. In reality, we're unlikely to sway an opposing view to our own and that shouldn't be the goal in the first place.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

Do we truly believe in Freedom and the exchange of ideas? Or do we simply wish to shut down the opinions of those with which we disagree because we're not confident enough in our own views to hear something in opposition to our own? (And I would add no matter how absurd we personally view that opposing view)

I want all opinions to be heard and stand on their own merit. If we disagree, let's have that discussion in a respectful way based on a civil discourse. In reality, we're unlikely to sway an opposing view to our own and that shouldn't be the goal in the first place.

Sure but, there's a pattern afoot where some, maybe most engage in civil discourse, thoughtfully stating their opinion and moving on. Unfortunately, the usual suspects choose to snipe, use selective reasoning to find ways to paste labels, names and the like on the OP. What will that accomplish? Certainly not anything even close to civil.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Ile Haversnatch said:

Sure but, there's a pattern afoot where some, maybe most engage in civil discourse, thoughtfully stating their opinion and moving on. Unfortunately, the usual suspects choose to snipe, use selective reasoning to find ways to paste labels, names and the like on the OP. What will that accomplish? Certainly not anything even close to civil.

Really? Who are the usual suspects? Quote people and make an argument, instead of generalizations about "the usual suspects". That's a worthless argument. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, pfunk said:

Really? Who are the usual suspects? Quote people and make an argument, instead of generalizations about "the usual suspects". That's a worthless argument. 

Throw a stone at a pack of dogs. The one who yelps is the one hit.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at it this way; he is a heterosexual male that I am sure grew up with the idea that being gay is wrong. There are a lot of people that think and feel that way. It is their perspective, and how they were raised, but we shouldn't cut him down for how he feels.

Everyone has opinions, and were raised in certain ways. My issue with some of the things said is that people feel that someone is wrong for the way they think, and they should change to their perspective which isn't going to happen AND one of the biggest reasons we have so many poilitical issues right now.

I understand why he said, "He doesn't want a gay to get his hands on him", he is worried that his first time(which for most people is impressionable and usually leads them down the sexual path they are in)to skew his view of sex and his relationships in the future. I am not saying that I agree that he should have said that(there was probably a more tactful way), but it was said and it is his opinion and his son.

I will admit that I sometimes wonder if the things that happened to me sexually when I was younger have shaped my views on sexuality, and that is why I do my best to be candid to my young ones so that they can be happy in their sexuality and relationships. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with my sexuality...I am bisexual and love my openness about it, but I do have most of my family that are uncomfortable or try to ignore that I feel that way. I just ignore their opinion and do what is right for me.

To me, the constructive way to discuss this would be to ask why he feels that way and what it could stem from. Is it fear? Lack of education? Does it have to do with his faith? So many variables can come into play and being open-minded about different viewpoints make for civil discussions and let's people understand where they are coming from about sensitive issues of this nature.  Even then, we all aren't going to agree on the same things, and that is okay. One of the cool things about our freedom of speech in America. Honestly, if we all did agree on everything it would be pretty boring around here.

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

 

9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SultryKitten said:

Look at it this way; he is a heterosexual male that I am sure grew up with the idea that being gay is wrong. There are a lot of people that think and feel that way. It is their perspective, and how they were raised, but we shouldn't cut him down for how he feels.

Everyone has opinions, and were raised in certain ways. My issue with some of the things said is that people feel that someone is wrong for the way they think, and they should change to their perspective which isn't going to happen AND one of the biggest reasons we have so many poilitical issues right now.

I understand why he said, "He doesn't want a gay to get his hands on him", he is worried that his first time(which for most people is impressionable and usually leads them down the sexual path they are in)to skew his view of sex and his relationships in the future. I am not saying that I agree that he should have said that(there was probably a more tactful way), but it was said and it is his opinion and his son.

I will admit that I sometimes wonder if the things that happened to me sexually when I was younger have shaped my views on sexuality, and that is why I do my best to be candid to my young ones so that they can be happy in their sexuality and relationships. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with my sexuality...I am bisexual and love my openness about it, but I do have most of my family that are uncomfortable or try to ignore that I feel that way. I just ignore their opinion and do what is right for me.

To me, the constructive way to discuss this would be to ask why he feels that way and what it could stem from. Is it fear? Lack of education? Does it have to do with his faith? So many variables can come into play and being open-minded about different viewpoints make for civil discussions and let's people understand where they are coming from about sensitive issues of this nature.  Even then, we all aren't going to agree on the same things, and that is okay. One of the cool things about our freedom of speech in America. Honestly, if we all did agree on everything it would be pretty boring around here.

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

 

This is the most intelligent and well thought out comment I have ever read on any of these forums. Samantha, if everybody had the common sense that you have this world would be a much better place. Thank you for saying these things. I hesitate to join in any political discussions on this forum because there are so many people who are quick to jump on you if they don't align with your beliefs. Your comments while not agreeing with the OP actually leave room for different opinions and don't tear him down for thinking the way he thinks. You are awesome!!!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a lot being said in this thread about freedom of speech and whether offensive speech is protected.  That is precisely the kind of speech that is protected by the first amendment.  If no one is offended by my speech it needs no protection (and is probably pretty dull and useless).  Secondly, the amendment is to protect me from THE GOVERNMENT taking actions against me for saying things they do not like.  If I say "Trump sucks!" (OR Obama sucks!) the storm troopers cannot come and take me away. The first amendment does NOT give me license and freedom to say whatever the hell I want on this or any other private forum.  The mods have every right to censor however they damn well want. I of course have the freedom to take my toys and go play and speak somewhere else if here does not suit my needs and desires. (For clarity this forum is imperfect but light years better than any other similar that I know of) And lastly if I wish to have the freedom to offend someone by expressing my opinions and beliefs I must recognize that they have the equal right to offend the hell out of me with their opinions!!  But preferably do so without name calling and insults.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I often wonder....Do those who take offense at comments condemn the thought or the utterance? If one holds opinions that offend some, should one correct their thinking or just keep one's mouth shut?

As a child I initially had a hard time understanding why the ACLU defended the klan's right to speak or gather...

Personally I would rather people voice their thoughts, get it out there where it can be discussed, not drive them underground. (and for the record I could give a flying fuck how, who, why people have consensual sex.)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SultryKitten said:

Look at it this way; he is a heterosexual male that I am sure grew up with the idea that being gay is wrong. There are a lot of people that think and feel that way. It is their perspective, and how they were raised, but we shouldn't cut him down for how he feels.

Everyone has opinions, and were raised in certain ways. My issue with some of the things said is that people feel that someone is wrong for the way they think, and they should change to their perspective which isn't going to happen AND one of the biggest reasons we have so many poilitical issues right now.

I understand why he said, "He doesn't want a gay to get his hands on him", he is worried that his first time(which for most people is impressionable and usually leads them down the sexual path they are in)to skew his view of sex and his relationships in the future. I am not saying that I agree that he should have said that(there was probably a more tactful way), but it was said and it is his opinion and his son.

I will admit that I sometimes wonder if the things that happened to me sexually when I was younger have shaped my views on sexuality, and that is why I do my best to be candid to my young ones so that they can be happy in their sexuality and relationships. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with my sexuality...I am bisexual and love my openness about it, but I do have most of my family that are uncomfortable or try to ignore that I feel that way. I just ignore their opinion and do what is right for me.

To me, the constructive way to discuss this would be to ask why he feels that way and what it could stem from. Is it fear? Lack of education? Does it have to do with his faith? So many variables can come into play and being open-minded about different viewpoints make for civil discussions and let's people understand where they are coming from about sensitive issues of this nature.  Even then, we all aren't going to agree on the same things, and that is okay. One of the cool things about our freedom of speech in America. Honestly, if we all did agree on everything it would be pretty boring around here.

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective Samantha. A very thoughtful response and summary to this thread to this point. I encourage you to share more of your thoughts and do so more often. This site needs a calming voice of reason and I am nominating you.

Simply Brilliant

Edited by MrBigShot
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.