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The Ever Changing Expectations in the Girlfriend Experience

75 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

You see how this is problematic? If dudes lie about being safe then how do we really avoid risk?

Short answer.....you can't. Life is risk. Sex is risk. Being alone sans apparel with a relative stranger is more risk. This is a business that involves people, money, lust, and the servicing of immediate, strong, gratification. Add to that illegality, then toss in some pimps, NOT STD free people,  some underage or other exploitation. Now just a pinch of fetishes with some BDSM desires to unknown degrees. That pretty much rounds up  a big herd of things and people that all scream RISK!!!!  It also is pretty damned far from an altruistic bunch of folks....despite how this particular community (TOB) might appear  ( and I do mean APPEAR because "who knows what lurks in the hearts of men" behind handles and posts?). When that door closes, it's just him and her and their own choices....( or him, her and her...or whatever). Each person sets their risk level and does what they feel is the best way to minimize it. Everyone has their own comfort level. Each of those risk\comfort level steps has a cost in terms of money, risk, gain, loss etc. The fact is, no community-wide risk reduction is really possible unless the business is BOTH legalized AND institutionalized. Naturally, that too has costs in terms of money, regulation, competition, oversight, and enforcement.

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On 3/7/2017 at 8:59 PM, Unclehazard91 said:

This sounds like a fun new thing to try for me...  thanks for the tip.. (no pun intended)

What I have NOT tried, is a urethane condom with lube undercoat BJ.  Now it's hard to top the ALGFE.........( Admiral's Last Girl Friend Experience). She was a long, slow, deeper, with no bail outs until long after conclusions. I have also heard rumors that such ladies even exist in these parts...ladies I will refer to as...."my regular girl I have yet to meet"...HOWEVER, all that aside, even BBBJ providers often "bail out" in the end or early. IF the urethane and lube combo worked well.... say 90% of untranslated, a gal would have no need to bail....and that might be good. If anyone tries that combo...let me know the results!! If I try it...I'll pass along a report as well.

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53 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

Short answer.....you can't. Life is risk. Sex is risk. Being alone sans apparel with a relative stranger is more risk. This is a business that involves people, money, lust, and the servicing of immediate, strong, gratification. Add to that illegality, then toss in some pimps, NOT STD free people,  some underage or other exploitation. Now just a pinch of fetishes with some BDSM desires to unknown degrees. That pretty much rounds up  a big herd of things and people that all scream RISK!!!!  It also is pretty damned far from an altruistic bunch of folks....despite how this particular community (TOB) might appear  ( and I do mean APPEAR because "who knows what lurks in the hearts of men" behind handles and posts?). When that door closes, it's just him and her and their own choices....( or him, her and her...or whatever). Each person sets their risk level and does what they feel is the best way to minimize it. Everyone has their own comfort level. Each of those risk\comfort level steps has a cost in terms of money, risk, gain, loss etc. The fact is, no community-wide risk reduction is really possible unless the business is BOTH legalized AND institutionalized. Naturally, that too has costs in terms of money, regulation, competition, oversight, and enforcement.

It was a rhetorical question really. Not talking about any risk but the sexual health kind. If you dudes lie about safety then we shouldn't take your word on anything and force covers for everything. Your example about lying about broken condoms is precisely why we should all be safe

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2 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

It was a rhetorical question really. Not talking about any risk but the sexual health kind. If you dudes lie about safety then we shouldn't take your word on anything and force covers for everything. Your example about lying about broken condoms is precisely why we should all be safe

I get what you are saying. From that rhetorical standpoint, I think the possibility of all the providers showing a "covered everything" form of solidarity is pretty much nil. Also, lets not forget that people are people...men and women alike. Clients do not have the monopoly on lying, with providers being comparative paragons of virtue. Do all ladies who contract an STD retire or stop working until it is gone, and do they tell their regulars what was up? Many providers optimally should take a few days off each month, but don't thanks to cosmetic sponges the client is likely not told about.  There are indeed MANY cases of providers being not forthcoming, to outright lying....on health issues, or other issues. Many have met the provider who says....."I don't generally do whatever, but I will do whatever with you, just don't tell anyone"This is because PEOPLE are PEOPLE and individually select situations where it is beneficial for them to lie. Gets back to what I was saying about the people in this hobby not being exactly the "altruism club". Ultimately, some level of trust must apply regardless. Now....what that level of trust IS?  It is utterly and completely subjective and varies greatly from person to person. In that regard, I think your candor on this matter makes you MORE trustworthy, not less...for whatever that subjective observation is worth.

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Man, this has gotten to be a pretty wordy discussion for the concept of "hey, what do you-all think about rubbers?"

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22 minutes ago, Badboy said:

Man, this has gotten to be a pretty wordy discussion for the concept of "hey, what do you-all think about rubbers?"

Well it was a little more complicated than that, the GFE article made some similar points and brought a perspective that I don't think was considered before.

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9 hours ago, Admiral C said:

What I have NOT tried, is a urethane condom with lube undercoat BJ.  Now it's hard to top the ALGFE.........( Admiral's Last Girl Friend Experience). She was a long, slow, deeper, with no bail outs until long after conclusions. I have also heard rumors that such ladies even exist in these parts...ladies I will refer to as...."my regular girl I have yet to meet"...HOWEVER, all that aside, even BBBJ providers often "bail out" in the end or early. IF the urethane and lube combo worked well.... say 90% of untranslated, a gal would have no need to bail....and that might be good. If anyone tries that combo...let me know the results!! If I try it...I'll pass along a report as well.

That sounds like a good setup... urethane and inside lube... maybe coconut oil 

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4 hours ago, Admiral C said:

I get what you are saying. From that rhetorical standpoint, I think the possibility of all the providers showing a "covered everything" form of solidarity is pretty much nil. Also, lets not forget that people are people...men and women alike. Clients do not have the monopoly on lying, with providers being comparative paragons of virtue. Do all ladies who contract an STD retire or stop working until it is gone, and do they tell their regulars what was up? Many providers optimally should take a few days off each month, but don't thanks to cosmetic sponges the client is likely not told about.  There are indeed MANY cases of providers being not forthcoming, to outright lying....on health issues, or other issues. Many have met the provider who says....."I don't generally do whatever, but I will do whatever with you, just don't tell anyone"This is because PEOPLE are PEOPLE and individually select situations where it is beneficial for them to lie. Gets back to what I was saying about the people in this hobby not being exactly the "altruism club". Ultimately, some level of trust must apply regardless. Now....what that level of trust IS?  It is utterly and completely subjective and varies greatly from person to person. In that regard, I think your candor on this matter makes you MORE trustworthy, not less...for whatever that subjective observation is worth.

No clients don't have the monopoly on lying but clients to have the upper hand. Providers are less likely to be dishonest when they don't feel pressured to do certain things for money. I think that solidarity among providers stands a better chance than you think. Denver and Colorado are just smaller markets in a huge country, every place has it's own way of doing things. There are definitely markets that are heavy on the safety and those like TX, that's a nasty free for all. Things are capable of changing.

Honestly most providers operate out of fear, not fear of risk but fear of not making money. Fear is what drives the dishonesty fear is what drives providers to do certain activities. Clients know this and prey on providers, having been around a while I suffer less bullshit because guys know better but I know that ladies get some shit shoveled on them. I am always reminded of how schmucky guys can be when I travel, since I am new to an area there are always those "helpful" types. Those are the types that say "hey baby this is how we do things around here" and they do it because it works.

I get that dudes think condoms are boring and make things not as fun and that you might not spend your money on a provider that doesn't offer what you want but step outside the business aspect of it and really think of it as a health issue. We can go back and forth forever and to be honest it's been a fun debate but I sincerely hope that someday we look at this as a health issue and not a business issue.

As for the makeup sponges that is literally the oldest trick in the book and for most it would be a real luxury to take a week off work. It's lying by omission but not a bold faced lie. Rates are pretty low around here by comparison, nationally the average is going up but they have stagnated if not actually dropped. When ladies make enough money to live they wouldn't have to lie about being on the rag. If guys understood the income we would lose taking off 12 weeks a year they might consider paying more. It's cyclical, it's also more likely to see outbreaks of STIs in lower income markets or when a market is currently struggling like this one. I am not a firm believer in you get what you pay for but sometimes it's true. Slow business means lower rates but more risk taking on behalf of the provider. Still want that BBBJ???

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On 3/7/2017 at 8:20 AM, MrBigShot said:

I couldn't agree more.

For a lot of people here GFE means BB. For me it means that all activities remain covered and it's the vibe between the two of us that makes the session GFE,  along with lots of kissing.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! kissing is the most important thing!!!!

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21 minutes ago, Lisa logan-4633 said:

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! kissing is the most important thing!!!!

Some of us mountain men have beards so long it actually makes sense to pay good money for a nice kiss...

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1 hour ago, Unclehazard91 said:

Some of us mountain men have beards so long it actually makes sense to pay good money for a nice kiss...

If I were a woman, guys that look like zz-top would never get any. Those beards look horrible to me.

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1 hour ago, Lucy Kitten said:

No clients don't have the monopoly on lying but clients to have the upper hand. Providers are less likely to be dishonest when they don't feel pressured to do certain things for money. I think that solidarity among providers stands a better chance than you think. Denver and Colorado are just smaller markets in a huge country, every place has it's own way of doing things. There are definitely markets that are heavy on the safety and those like TX, that's a nasty free for all. Things are capable of changing.

Honestly most providers operate out of fear, not fear of risk but fear of not making money. Fear is what drives the dishonesty fear is what drives providers to do certain activities. Clients know this and prey on providers, having been around a while I suffer less bullshit because guys know better but I know that ladies get some shit shoveled on them. I am always reminded of how schmucky guys can be when I travel, since I am new to an area there are always those "helpful" types. Those are the types that say "hey baby this is how we do things around here" and they do it because it works.

I get that dudes think condoms are boring and make things not as fun and that you might not spend your money on a provider that doesn't offer what you want but step outside the business aspect of it and really think of it as a health issue. We can go back and forth forever and to be honest it's been a fun debate but I sincerely hope that someday we look at this as a health issue and not a business issue.

As for the makeup sponges that is literally the oldest trick in the book and for most it would be a real luxury to take a week off work. It's lying by omission but not a bold faced lie. Rates are pretty low around here by comparison, nationally the average is going up but they have stagnated if not actually dropped. When ladies make enough money to live they wouldn't have to lie about being on the rag. If guys understood the income we would lose taking off 12 weeks a year they might consider paying more. It's cyclical, it's also more likely to see outbreaks of STIs in lower income markets or when a market is currently struggling like this one. I am not a firm believer in you get what you pay for but sometimes it's true. Slow business means lower rates but more risk taking on behalf of the provider. Still want that BBBJ???

To be honest, it has seemed more like a conversation than a debate to me.  I have read a few threads where folks get all rowdy towards you, but I have to say, you seem quite reasonable to me. Passionate in your views...yes...but reasonable.  As to your question...."Still want that BBBJ???".....well.....I'm 100% about the oral action....UTF\69...hopefully with a regular playmate.  If I were a Denverite rather than a Springser.....I would certain have to answer you "yes" and jangle your phone. We have talked about health....and economics.....but DAMN...GEOGRAPHY!!  Anyway,  you are a fun, fiery, informed chat......among other fun things I am sure.

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10 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said:

As for the makeup sponges that is literally the oldest trick in the book and for most it would be a real luxury to take a week off work. It's lying by omission but not a bold faced lie. Rates are pretty low around here by comparison, nationally the average is going up but they have stagnated if not actually dropped. When ladies make enough money to live they wouldn't have to lie about being on the rag. If guys understood the income we would lose taking off 12 weeks a year they might consider paying more.

Maybe I am a bit of a pervert - but I like it when the ladies are having their period.  Let it flow, baby, let it flow. "We don't need no stinking sponges!"  If they can manage the mess, I think they are more sensitive, or more driven, whatever.

In fact, as I told my ATATF last week after a particularly protein-filled dinner at the Y, I think she tastes better that time of the month - a nice oaky flavor, with just a bit of a wild cherry finish.  She knows that she has at least one dependable visitor that time of the month.

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