The Ever Changing Expectations in the Girlfriend Experience

[daaacz]

A good read on how things change and the forces behind them.

https://realsexindustry.wordpress.com/2017/02/13/the-ever-changing-expectations-in-the-girlfriend-experience/

To me, personally, GFE isn't about the acts performed but about the overall experience.

[SabrinaLynn aka KatieCreme]

Great great information...I have always believed GFE is something you engage in with your SO!I know there are single people out there also,but I'm leaning more into it always being someone that you KNOW KNOW! Or maybe even an ATF !JUST MY OPINIONS PLEASE DONT BITE MY HEAD OFF!

 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by SabrinaLynn

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, daaacz said:

To me, personally, GFE isn't about the acts performed but about the overall experience.

I couldn't agree more.

For a lot of people here GFE means BB. For me it means that all activities remain covered and it's the vibe between the two of us that makes the session GFE,  along with lots of kissing.

[Admiral C]

3 minutes ago, SabrinaLynn said:

Great great information...I have always believed GFE is something you engage in with your SO!I know there are single people out there also,but I'm leaning more into it always being someone that you KNOW KNOW! Or maybe even an ATF !JUST MY OPINIONS PLEASE DONT BITE MY HEAD OFF!

 

 

I doubt anyone will bite your head off. GFE...like PSE are mighty subjective terms when you get down to it and are defined differently by almost everyone.  I have been with providers who got into some heavy DFK...followed by good UTF....leading to great 69...later various FS activities. What was that...GFE? PSE? I have had girlfriends who were not that much fun....but others who were more PSE than that......So I would choose which of those I considered to be a "GFE"......

[SabrinaLynn aka KatieCreme]

That's so funny a girlfriend and I were JUST having a conversation about this yesterday!

[SabrinaLynn aka KatieCreme]

4 minutes ago, MrBigShot said:

I couldn't agree more.

For a lot of people here GFE means BB. For me it means that all activities remain covered and it's the vibe between the two of us that makes the session GFE,  along with lots of kissing.

See to ALOT Kissing is GFE... Crazy how things change year after year after year.. 😉

[Guest]

So a term has be seen here that is new to me is "3G".   What dos that mean? Thanks...

[Laci French]

Get in, get off and get out.

 

[Lucy Kitten]

25 minutes ago, daaacz said:

A good read on how things change and the forces behind them.

https://realsexindustry.wordpress.com/2017/02/13/the-ever-changing-expectations-in-the-girlfriend-experience/

To me, personally, GFE isn't about the acts performed but about the overall experience.

Unfortunately not everyone thinks like you. Too many believe that GFE means specific services and that anything else is negative. I have said many of the same things here on this board and the response is to trot out STI stats and the conversation goes nowhere. Unsafe sex should be the exception and not the rule and those that choose to do so need to charge more for it and stop using GFE or UTF as bargaining tools for more clients.

It's an ugly position providers find themselves in, I know I offer those services but I also know that I would lose a lot of my local client base if I changed those offerings. We're not really in a place to change things as providers unless we're all on the same page so the best we can do is appeal to clients and hope to change their minds.

Safe sex should be mandatory, it shouldn't even be a conversation but it is and it sucks. There was another great blog entry from a provider who recently gave up the independent escort life to work in a a legal brothel. One of her reasons was the safe sex and the lack of argument about it in a controlled legal environment.

Personally I think providers need to tighten up the rules about safety and clients need to stop with the manipulation/persuasion. I'd rather see us all play safe before a herpes outbreak that forces us to.

[Funguy]

I agree everyone has their own opinion of gfe, to me its more about the experience between the two of you and how you click with each other, the kissing and hugging can be there , but if it's not good for both of you I wouldn't consider it gfe, I really enjoy the kissing if the one I am with does also and have had some great experiences where it felt good between the two of us

[Admiral C]

26 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

Unfortunately not everyone thinks like you. Too many believe that GFE means specific services and that anything else is negative. I have said many of the same things here on this board and the response is to trot out STI stats and the conversation goes nowhere. Unsafe sex should be the exception and not the rule and those that choose to do so need to charge more for it and stop using GFE or UTF as bargaining tools for more clients.

It's an ugly position providers find themselves in, I know I offer those services but I also know that I would lose a lot of my local client base if I changed those offerings. We're not really in a place to change things as providers unless we're all on the same page so the best we can do is appeal to clients and hope to change their minds.

Safe sex should be mandatory, it shouldn't even be a conversation but it is and it sucks. There was another great blog entry from a provider who recently gave up the independent escort life to work in a a legal brothel. One of her reasons was the safe sex and the lack of argument about it in a controlled legal environment.

Personally I think providers need to tighten up the rules about safety and clients need to stop with the manipulation/persuasion. I'd rather see us all play safe before a herpes outbreak that forces us to.

Objectively speaking, this point cannot be argued against. Limiting or eliminating DFK, using female condoms for DATY, and male condoms for all else would unquestionably make things safer. REALISTICALLY speaking, there would be a  drop off in clients to go along with that. This is a hobby for discretionary funds, not a necessity ( ok..ok...maybe it's a necessity for some). Many guys just are not going to pay for that type of service or certainly not pay the current rates for it. Thats not a bargaining tool or a manipulation, that's just a fact in any discretionary service. It would be like a Steak House that started offering only well done steaks......some folks who like em that way would come there....many others would not.  There seems to be no stronger force pushing compromise than economics.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Admiral C said:

Objectively speaking, this point cannot be argued against. Limiting or eliminating DFK, using female condoms for DATY, and male condoms for all else would unquestionably make things safer. 

I'm fine with those options if the atmosphere vibe and connection are good.  Approaching my mid 50s I realize that now is not the time to go to the doc to get a penicillin shot or bad news about some disease I know very well how to avoid.

[Guest]

I actually read most of that paper and blog this morning.  I really like it and think it's a well put together site, and very helpful for both (all) sides of the hobby...

[Lucy Kitten]

6 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

Objectively speaking, this point cannot be argued against. Limiting or eliminating DFK, using female condoms for DATY, and male condoms for all else would unquestionably make things safer. REALISTICALLY speaking, there would be a  drop off in clients to go along with that. This is a hobby for discretionary funds, not a necessity ( ok..ok...maybe it's a necessity for some). Many guys just are not going to pay for that type of service or certainly not pay the current rates for it. Thats not a bargaining tool or a manipulation, that's just a fact in any discretionary service. It would be like a Steak House that started offering only well done steaks......some folks who like em that way would come there....many others would not.  There seems to be no stronger force pushing compromise than economics.

But it is a bargaining tool because you're viewing these unsafe services as a need. Guys not wanting to pay rates for XYZ is exactly manipulation and it also puts your needs first. This isn't really about the individual it's about the collective. The collective needs to stay healthy.

Guys and gals need to really start thinking hard about the safety of things and themselves. There should not really be a drop in clients because safety goes up, it should be applauded that people are taking care of themselves and looking out for their clients. The undertone of your argument is that safety doesn't matter as much as the price point and the services offered. That is what I mean by persuasion. You say guys aren't gonna pay for that and ladies read that and fear loss of money and do things they don't really want to do. Much like was stated in the article.

This hobby is a luxury and it's time that ladies take that power back, like you said this isn't a need it's a want. By luxury I don't mean charge through the roof by luxury I mean this is a service that you don't need but is awesome that is provided and the seller should set standards.

Also please refrain from comparing this business to things like food. There is no comparison to such and intimate business and a steak can't give you an STD.

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

But it is a bargaining tool because you're viewing these unsafe services as a need. Guys not wanting to pay rates for XYZ is exactly manipulation and it also puts your needs first. This isn't really about the individual it's about the collective. The collective needs to stay healthy.

Guys and gals need to really start thinking hard about the safety of things and themselves. There should not really be a drop in clients because safety goes up, it should be applauded that people are taking care of themselves and looking out for their clients. The undertone of your argument is that safety doesn't matter as much as the price point and the services offered. That is what I mean by persuasion. You say guys aren't gonna pay for that and ladies read that and fear loss of money and do things they don't really want to do. Much like was stated in the article.

This hobby is a luxury and it's time that ladies take that power back, like you said this isn't a need it's a want. By luxury I don't mean charge through the roof by luxury I mean this is a service that you don't need but is awesome that is provided and the seller should set standards.

Also please refrain from comparing this business to things like food. There is no comparison to such and intimate business and a steak can't give you an STD.

 

There are so many statistics about STDs with a 1 out of every 3 or 4 people having deposed tho them.  That ratio is just way to small and there ar studies upon studies verifying how overexposed today's adults are to these diseases, many of which can be avoided by making better decisions in one way or another.

 

as a side note, I think that paying for companionship for some might me less of a hobby or extra luxury for some than others.  For someone lonely for reasons beyond their control, like disablity etc, the hour or company and patience from a lovely lady can be a huge part of the comfort and nurture that keeps someone going.  

[MrReindeer-9515]

17 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

Objectively speaking, this point cannot be argued against. Limiting or eliminating DFK, using female condoms for DATY, and male condoms for all else would unquestionably make things safer. REALISTICALLY speaking, there would be a  drop off in clients to go along with that. This is a hobby for discretionary funds, not a necessity ( ok..ok...maybe it's a necessity for some). Many guys just are not going to pay for that type of service or certainly not pay the current rates for it. Thats not a bargaining tool or a manipulation, that's just a fact in any discretionary service. It would be like a Steak House that started offering only well done steaks......some folks who like em that way would come there....many others would not.  There seems to be no stronger force pushing compromise than economics.

While I bristle at the meat analogy(ASP's are human beings), if ASP's did as Lucy suggested, there would be only safe(r) offerings. 

Realistically, in an unregulated industry, there will always be those that want to operate beyond the norm; but if such offerings(BB/UTF) were the exception, the industry would still be better for it. Those that choose to play unsafely(on both sides of the donation) would be easier to identify(avoid).

[Admiral C]

4 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said:

But it is a bargaining tool because you're viewing these unsafe services as a need. Guys not wanting to pay rates for XYZ is exactly manipulation and it also puts your needs first. This isn't really about the individual it's about the collective. The collective needs to stay healthy.

Guys and gals need to really start thinking hard about the safety of things and themselves. There should not really be a drop in clients because safety goes up, it should be applauded that people are taking care of themselves and looking out for their clients. The undertone of your argument is that safety doesn't matter as much as the price point and the services offered. That is what I mean by persuasion. You say guys aren't gonna pay for that and ladies read that and fear loss of money and do things they don't really want to do. Much like was stated in the article.

This hobby is a luxury and it's time that ladies take that power back, like you said this isn't a need it's a want. By luxury I don't mean charge through the roof by luxury I mean this is a service that you don't need but is awesome that is provided and the seller should set standards.

Also please refrain from comparing this business to things like food. There is no comparison to such and intimate business and a steak can't give you an STD.

 

Well first off...I'm not making an argument, I am simply stating what I believe to be a fact. You said yourself that you offer some of those services because you are concerned you could lose clients. In truth, none of the services discussed here...covered or otherwise, constitute a need, rather a want. If changes in a service result in less enjoyment, it's natural there would be less takers. As I said, a "covered world" so to speak would be undeniably safer......but as you and I BOTH said...it would be undeniably smaller. I can see your point that you would LIKE everything to be safer....and experience no reductions in clients of rates. I'm sure many guys would LIKE rates to be lower....but those are both likes that conflict with current stated expectations. As for my comparison to food....OBVIOUSLY a steak won't give you an STD anymore than having sex can give you food poisoning like a rare steak. The point is, consumers buy what they want, and don't buy what they don't want.  No consumer is obligated to support any particular business or service provider. Indeed well done steaks are healthier and safer than less cooked ones...but for the owners to expect people to all buy well done steaks for the collective health would simply not be realistic.  I DO understand your frustration and I assure you that my comments are NOT a manipulation, on the surface, or by undertone. I am merely stating what I believe...and what you said YOU believe.

[Admiral C]

20 minutes ago, MrReindeer-9515 said:

While I bristle at the meat analogy(ASP's are human beings), if ASP's did as Lucy suggested, there would be only safe(r) offerings. 

Realistically, in an unregulated industry, there will always be those that want to operate beyond the norm; but if such offerings(BB/UTF) were the exception, the industry would still be better for it. Those that choose to play unsafely(on both sides of the donation) would be easier to identify(avoid).

OK...fair enough. While I was only referring to services and NOT comparing ASP's ( which are of COURSE human beings) to meat...my apologies if my example was upsetting. As any PRODUCT would elicit equal offense, especially to those easily offended, allow me to try to stay in the realm of service. A hair salon that offers only two styles because they are easier to care for and best promote healthy hair. Those who want a different style should continue to come? A patient goes to get a nose job, but finds the plastic surgeon has switched to just doing boob jobs......."So what will it be Bill....going with c-cups?"  Now.....allow me to take it to a self personal level.  I too am in a service business. Once upon a time, I offered in home service...."outcall" by comparison.  I no longer do and save drive time and as driving kills way more people than STD's I'm safer. Those outcall clients? Lost most of them. New prospects who want outcall? Lose most of them. HOWEVER...I don't feel like they are trying to manipulate me....endanger me on the roads......not frustrated that they don't decide to drive to me instead. I made a choice...they made a choice...thats business...and that's all it is.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

OK...fair enough. While I was only referring to services and NOT comparing ASP's ( which are of COURSE human beings) to meat...my apologies if my example was upsetting. As any PRODUCT would elicit equal offense, especially to those easily offended, allow me to try to stay in the realm of service. A hair salon that offers only two styles because they are easier to care for and best promote healthy hair. Those who want a different style should continue to come? A patient goes to get a nose job, but finds the plastic surgeon has switched to just doing boob jobs......."So what will it be Bill....going with c-cups?"  Now.....allow me to take it to a self personal level.  I too am in a service business. Once upon a time, I offered in home service...."outcall" by comparison.  I no longer do and save drive time and as driving kills way more people than STD's I'm safer. Those outcall clients? Lost most of them. New prospects who want outcall? Lose most of them. HOWEVER...I don't feel like they are trying to manipulate me....endanger me on the roads......not frustrated that they don't decide to drive to me instead. I made a choice...they made a choice...thats business...and that's all it is.

We've seen Food analogies before and it is never well accepted by any of the ASP's no matter how you couch it to consumerism and the Free Marketplace.

[SultryKitten]

1 hour ago, Admiral C said:

Objectively speaking, this point cannot be argued against. Limiting or eliminating DFK, using female condoms for DATY, and male condoms for all else would unquestionably make things safer. REALISTICALLY speaking, there would be a  drop off in clients to go along with that. This is a hobby for discretionary funds, not a necessity ( ok..ok...maybe it's a necessity for some). Many guys just are not going to pay for that type of service or certainly not pay the current rates for it. Thats not a bargaining tool or a manipulation, that's just a fact in any discretionary service. It would be like a Steak House that started offering only well done steaks......some folks who like em that way would come there....many others would not.  There seems to be no stronger force pushing compromise than economics.

I know an area that clients expect the providers to keep their rates under $250, and to allow services that a lot of providers are uncomfortable with or they threaten them with bad reviews. It isn't the only area, and those areas I do not venture into.

I agree in part that certain amounts of money clients aren't going to pay if a provider doesn't provide crtain services, but I do know of providers that charge a lot and do less than another provider that charges less and does more yet they still both make good money. It is totally subjective.

Hence why there is such controversy around acronyms like GFE, UTF, PSE, YMMV, etc. What is great to one person is horrible to another.

I see GFE as that closer connection with a client, intimacy that is created that I don't provide if it was just a quickie, massage, or other services. I don't think it should be ruled around if there are covers or not because than that leads to very unsafe practices, and I like to believe that we as a community try to maintain some semblance of safety in this hobby. Nothing, but abstinence, is safe, but from what I know numbers with STD are significantly lower than the 18-25 year old genre, or other genres out there. I know because I ask and they keep tabs to know where the source of the education needs to be.

Maybe it should come down to clients reading reviews and making sure that they are a fit by what she tends to provide, and then connecting with her to make sure that it is something they both want to doinstead of just assuming that that person will relent because of a monetary value. I know that I don't say yes to every client that wants GFE as I don't want to with everyone...it hasn't seemed to be an issue(yet).

xoxo,

Samantha Sheppard

[Laya]

I always get guys who want BB for GFE services and I don't offer bare or Greek and I feel pressured because a lot of providers aren't as safe. I'm afraid to catch what I can't get rid of so I'll pass on the GFE services. Doesn't mean ur experience with me will be any less without it. 

[MrReindeer-9515]

16 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

OK...fair enough. While I was only referring to services and NOT comparing ASP's ( which are of COURSE human beings) to meat...my apologies if my example was upsetting. As any PRODUCT would elicit equal offense, especially to those easily offended, allow me to try to stay in the realm of service. A hair salon that offers only two styles because they are easier to care for and best promote healthy hair. Those who want a different style should continue to come? A patient goes to get a nose job, but finds the plastic surgeon has switched to just doing boob jobs......."So what will it be Bill....going with c-cups?"  Now.....allow me to take it to a self personal level.  I too am in a service business. Once upon a time, I offered in home service...."outcall" by comparison.  I no longer do and save drive time and as driving kills way more people than STD's I'm safer. Those outcall clients? Lost most of them. New prospects who want outcall? Lose most of them. HOWEVER...I don't feel like they are trying to manipulate me....endanger me on the roads......not frustrated that they don't decide to drive to me instead. I made a choice...they made a choice...thats business...and that's all it is.

Ok, since we're keeping to the service world...

An analogy that would better represent Lucy's comments, still using your examples:

It would be if said hair salons/plastic surgeons got together and decided that while there would be many offerings on the menu, the most dangerous to either/both would not be offered. There will always be those who will cater to anyone/anything regardless of risk, but again they would be the exception. Unfortunately, your service examples fall apart when you remember this is an unregulated industry. In both cosmetology and medicine there are regulations, licenses, oversight and mandated training.

As to your personal examples of "outcalls", until you start getting naked and selling your ass to clients, you may want to reconsider that.

[Admiral C]

2 minutes ago, Laya said:

I always get guys who want BB for GFE services and I don't offer bare or Greek and I feel pressured because a lot of providers aren't as safe. I'm afraid to catch what I can't get rid of so I'll pass on the GFE services. Doesn't mean ur experience with me will be any less without it. 

 

3 minutes ago, MrReindeer-9515 said:

Ok, since we're keeping to the service world...

An analogy that would better represent Lucy's comments, still using your examples:

It would be if said hair salons/plastic surgeons got together and decided that while there would be many offerings on the menu, the most dangerous to either/both would not be offered. There will always be those who will cater to anyone/anything regardless of risk, but again they would be the exception. Unfortunately, your service examples fall apart when you remember this is an unregulated industry. In both cosmetology and medicine there are regulations, licenses, oversight and mandated training.

As to your personal examples of "outcalls", until you start getting naked and selling your ass to clients, you may want to reconsider that.

I don't disagree with that....not at all. However, are you saying that people who wanted to get one of those now not offered menu items should feel the need to come and get something else?  Indeed, why should the ladies even bother with "escort services" at all? Would it not be reasonable for them all to offer only FBSM.... perhaps with HJ  happy ending ( YMMV)? Certainly that would make things very much safer all around. I will leave it to you to speculate why that is not the case.

[Admiral C]

35 minutes ago, Laya said:

I always get guys who want BB for GFE services and I don't offer bare or Greek and I feel pressured because a lot of providers aren't as safe. I'm afraid to catch what I can't get rid of so I'll pass on the GFE services. Doesn't mean ur experience with me will be any less without it. 

Sorry about including you in my reply to Reindeer.....must have been an accidental click. That said....I sure hope those guys asking you for BB as GFE are NOT asking for BB FS or BB greek....That's not seeking a GFE....that's seeking  a RRE.......Russian Roulette Experience

[MrReindeer-9515]

10 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

 

I don't disagree with that....not at all. However, are you saying that people who wanted to get one of those now not offered menu items should feel the need to come and get something else?  Indeed, why should the ladies even bother with "escort services" at all? Would it not be reasonable for them all to offer only FBSM.... perhaps with HJ  happy ending ( YMMV)? Certainly that would make things very much safer all around. I will leave it to you to speculate why that is not the case.

Nope.

In her OP Lucy submitted that if ASP's got together and agreed to limit to safe(r) service, the industry would be better for it. In your post you seemed to be saying that in her analogy there would be a reduction in demand. I submit that, if safe(r) services were mostly the only thing offered, your examples fall apart. As I also stated repeatedly, this is an unregulated business. The ones who insist on offering/demanding unsafe service would still have a option and would also be more easily avoided.

Returning to the world that we live in, no it's unlikely that an ASP guild would emerge that would standardize the industry; however, Lucy's point is still valid, if not unrealistic. As long as there are clients that want to push the health envelope, there will be ASP's that will be willing to put their own health(and the health of others)at risk to cater to them. The difference being: in Lucy's example, the industry would be safer as a whole.

[mountainman4u72]

42 minutes ago, Laya said:

I always get guys who want BB for GFE services and I don't offer bare or Greek and I feel pressured because a lot of providers aren't as safe. I'm afraid to catch what I can't get rid of so I'll pass on the GFE services. Doesn't mean ur experience with me will be any less without it. 

I'm thankful for safety first. Keep up the good work Laya. Sure wish I was closer your way. 

[Laya]

2 minutes ago, mountainman4u72 said:

I'm thankful for safety first. Keep up the good work Laya. Sure wish I was closer your way. 

Right I want to send guys home safe no running to the doctor bcuz they were curious . Safety first !!!

[Admiral C]

4 minutes ago, MrReindeer-9515 said:

Nope.

In her OP Lucy submitted that if ASP's got together and agreed to limit to safe(r) service, the industry would be better for it. In your post you seemed to be saying that in her analogy there would be a reduction in demand. I submit that, if safe(r) services were mostly the only thing offered, your examples fall apart. As I also stated repeatedly, this is an unregulated business. The ones who insist on offering/demanding unsafe service would still have a option and would also be more easily avoided.

Returning to the world that we live in, no it's unlikely that an ASP guild would emerge that would standardize the industry; however, Lucy's point is still valid, if not unrealistic. As long as there are clients that want to push the health envelope, there will be ASP's that will be willing to put their own health(and the health of others)at risk to cater to them. The difference being: in Lucy's example, the industry would be safer as a whole.

We are mostly saying and agreeing on the same things...that in the OP's original suggestion, indeed things would be safer. Where we will have to agree to disagree is our differing opinions on reduction of demand. I feel there would be....you feel there would not be. I also want to say, that I do NOT think your view on this is designed to curry favor with ASP's....and my view is NOT designed to pressure them. It's just what we each believe.

[MrReindeer-9515]

17 minutes ago, Admiral C said:

We are mostly saying and agreeing on the same things...that in the OP's original suggestion, indeed things would be safer. Where we will have to agree to disagree is our differing opinions on reduction of demand. I feel there would be....you feel there would not be. I also want to say, that I do NOT think your view on this is designed to curry favor with ASP's....and my view is NOT designed to pressure them. It's just what we each believe.

Well said, however...

My bottom line:

If faced with a world where all blow jobs were covered, I submit there would still be many more that would opt for a covered bj than no bj at all. I know I sure as fuck would(but, I've gone on the record many times to say I've got no problems w/cbj's)

[Admiral C]

1 hour ago, MrReindeer-9515 said:

Well said, however...

My bottom line:

If faced with a world where all blow jobs were covered, I submit there would still be many more that would opt for a covered bj than no bj at all. I know I sure as fuck would(but, I've gone on the record many times to say I've got no problems w/cbj's)

Somewhat off topic but interesting.....UTF is more fun than CBJ...BUT....one provider I knew would get good lube UNDER the cover. While this necessitated keeping ahold to make sure the cover did not slide off, the undercoating of lube improved the CBJ quality to a colossal degree.