Posted February 27, 2017 So it looks like the New Zealand Herald is doing a whole series about their legalized sex work. A few weeks ago, I posted a story about a brothel there, with free child care, etc., but it seems they're falling afoul of laws saying no brothels within X number of meters from a child care center, so they now need a zoning variance. Here's today's story though, talking about how sex work can go well for one person, but not for another. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11806166 The previous stories: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11797730 and their editorial about how legalization made everything safer: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11798507 This is good stuff I think. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 It's OK stuff I think. The "ethical brothel" chick is kind of annoying. A white Ivy League woman in NZ with not a native/indigenous person in sight and an ethical drug free zone is such shite. It kind of ties in with the other article you posted about the differing experiences, both are valid and both are the reality. It's wonderful that there are women that get to choose this as a profession but the reality is so many really do operate out of desperation and the ability to choose this casually is a privilege won on behalf of the blood, sweat, tears, abuse and incredibly hard work of those that came before them. White women saviors really irk me. Don't get me wrong, the brothel idea is great but is it inclusive? It helps such a limited number of people and the chick makes a profit of these women! Ignoring women that need to do this and create a space for those who choose this because it's a viable option is gross. It's not sex worker positive and really only creates a safe environment for those who have the luxury of not being desperate. "Madame" Murphy was never a sex worker herself and that's bothersome too. I love outside advocacy but I do not like those who have profited of sex work without ever having done it themselves. New Zealand has definitely made strides that other countries haven't and that should be applauded. But it sounds like stigma is still an issue and it makes me fear it will always be an issue. Since decrim or legalization are a long shot for this generation we, this we the TOB/Denver/Colorado community should work on reducing stigma locally. And that doesn't mean telling each other here what we already know. It means that some of us who have the courage and the chance need to start educating others. Writing to our law makers and politicians, sharing articles like these on Facebook, twitter and wherever we have an audience that we're comfortable with that. I know this kind of strays from maybe what you intended in your OP but it's all connected. WE NEED TO TREAT EACH OTHER BETTER. We're never going to move forward until we have basic respect and understand of each other. This can be a not nice place and to those who claim it's such a great community remember that it is for you but not for everyone. We are not a community without bias or cliques, not everyone has been treated fairly or is heard equally. We devalue opinions. We collectively participate in behavior that is very anti-progress. We cry for decrim and cry foul about strict screening, they're contradictory of one another. We agree that safety is paramount but demonize the tools used to stay safe. Women are often, and maybe not even on purpose, kinda cruel to other women around here too. Bottom line is progress starts from the bottom. We are the bottom and if we ever want to see big changes we have to change ourselves first. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 53 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said: ... and the chick makes a profit of these women! --- ... "Madame" Murphy was never a sex worker herself and that's bothersome too. . Why is making a profit such a bad thing? The brothel owner has expenses and performs a service managing the facility. She deserves a fair share of what the girls are paid. (I'm not saying, "Give me all your money, then get your ass back out there and earn more.") Is it any different from an independent paying her rent, her day care, or for the services of a booking agent? Sure, I can change my own oil, but I'd rather pay someone else to take care of my vehicles; it gives me time to do something else. Sorry, but the whole "management is evil" meme (not just this industry) bugs me. Why shouldn't they be compensated for their services? (Note: The levels of compensation in corporate America is a different discussion.) The "Murphy was never a sex worker herself..." I get. It's sort of like an accountant being the CEO of an engineering or manufacturing firm. They just don't understand some of the issues. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 4 hours ago, Lucy Kitten said: It's OK stuff I think. .... Bottom line is progress starts from the bottom. We are the bottom and if we ever want to see big changes we have to change ourselves first. I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I think it would have been better had the madame both been from NZ herself, and worked her way up. Then again, in the day job, I hire managers not because the know all the details about the job and can do it blindfolded, I hire them because they know how to manage, which is a skill set in itself. They can learn the things they need to know about the job from the folks who work for them as to what's important. In NZ, they suffer from tall poppy syndrome also. Anyone who rises too high, they get torn down by everyone else. That happens everywhere of course, but in NZ, its a way of life. So for me, reading this in their main news site every day is remarkable that while not normal yet, it's becoming more normalized and accepted. There's also many other brothels in NZ in most of the larger towns and cities. I think this particular one in the articles isn't the best example as you've pointed out, but maybe its the appropriate one to change the greater public opinion. So I know in NZ, they are actively looking at Colorado concerning medicinal and recreational legalization stories, and are moving in that direction, slowly but surely. Maybe by focusing on these "positive" stories coming out of NZ and sharing them with elected officials, it can become a two way trend. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Bit Banger said: Why is making a profit such a bad thing? The brothel owner has expenses and performs a service managing the facility. She deserves a fair share of what the girls are paid. (I'm not saying, "Give me all your money, then get your ass back out there and earn more.") Is it any different from an independent paying her rent, her day care, or for the services of a booking agent? Sure, I can change my own oil, but I'd rather pay someone else to take care of my vehicles; it gives me time to do something else. Sorry, but the whole "management is evil" meme (not just this industry) bugs me. Why shouldn't they be compensated for their services? (Note: The levels of compensation in corporate America is a different discussion.) The "Murphy was never a sex worker herself..." I get. It's sort of like an accountant being the CEO of an engineering or manufacturing firm. They just don't understand some of the issues. Never did I say management is evil. I said women who profit of an industry they've never stepped a toe in is frustrating. This isn't what you do for a living so I don't expect you to understand. There is no way that she could do what she did without the knowledge of wait for it.....sex workers!!! You don't understand the needs, the risks, the subtleties. This woman obviously cares more about profit than advocacy because it's very clear that her environment or her offerings aren't inclusive of everyone. Stop with the comparisons it's false equivalency and minimizes sex workers and the plight to be taken seriously as a real industry. A great example of what I mean about the anti-decrim behavior. A woman from another country capitalizing on sex work in another country who has never been a sex worker herself is full of it. If she was passionate about sex work and sex workers there is plenty to be done in the good ole U.S of A. Just to be clear none of what I said was management was evil or that people should work for free. What I am saying is that people who want to financially take advantage of an industry without ever having been involved before are bitches about it can rightly fuck off. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 55 minutes ago, Lucy Kitten said: Just to be clear none of what I said was management was evil or that people should work for free. What I am saying is that people who want to financially take advantage of an industry without ever having been involved before are bitches about it can rightly fuck off. I wish I could find the video I had seen a year or so ago. I think that would have been a better example, for what you want to see, because it was all true working girls who got together and set up more of a non-managed brothel, they all worked together in almost a commune setup. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 28, 2017 FuriousWeasel already addressed the issue of the different skill sets required for management and service staff. Obviously there was a void and the madam has the capital to open the business. If her employees feel slighted or that her services weren't worthwhile, why do they continue to work for her? If locals had stepped up the the plate and saturated the market, the madam wouldn't have a viable business plan If this industry expects to be respected it needs to be able to stand up to comparison with other industries, each of which has its own unique issues. You think being an escort is dangerous? Try being in a military controlled by individuals who have little or no experience in the trenchs.(Of the last 5 Commanders in Chief, only 2 had military service.) That being said I do believe in civilian control of our military. No you didn't say "management is evil" You just seemed to imply it with phrases like "... financially take advantage of ...". Sorry, but yoi're not the only one beating that drum lately. You caught some blowback from other conversations I've had recently with folks shaming the benefits of capitalism. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
