Racism?

[Bit Banger]

Another thread in the COLORADO forum seems to have drifted into a discussion of racism in America. Let's move that discussion here. 

While I'm not saying that racism has been eliminated in America (nor do I think it ever will be, from any society),  I would point out the significant strides that have been made by each generation.  How many personally remember 'colored' water fountains or motels? Some of the fellas may, but I doubt many of the ladies were born before they ceased to exist, even in the Deep South. I remember when the likes of David Duke & Gov. Wallace were major news figures. Now the most racist public figure I can think of is Rev. Sharpton, who seems to interject race into every issue. 

The racial divide appears to have expanded over the past 8 years.  I'm not sure if that is because of increased media attention or economics & politics.  It must be remembered that while we strive for equal opportunity, this does not translate into equal outcome; people have different abilities & talents.

Before you think "This is just some honky spouting off..." you might consider that this gaijin has experienced the negative side of racial issues (granted - not on a perpetual basis). I've also been shunned for the color of my skin in certain neighborhoods of America.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but we have come a long way. I doubt we're headed back to the days of "strange fruit" in the swamp. Hopefully we will continue on the path of improvement. It's just not going to happen overnight. 

[geecue2]

Do not know if you are on twitter but you might want to see some of the things going on now.

[Phil-anderer]

52 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Another thread in the COLORADO forum seems to have drifted into a discussion of racism in America. Let's move that discussion here. 

While I'm not saying that racism has been eliminated in America (nor do I think it ever will be, from any society),  I would point out the significant strides that have been made by each generation.  How many personally remember 'colored' water fountains or motels? Some of the fellas may, but I doubt many of the ladies were born before they ceased to exist, even in the Deep South. I remember when the likes of David Duke & Gov. Wallace were major news figures. Now the most racist public figure I can think of is Rev. Sharpton, who seems to interject race into every issue. 

The racial divide appears to have expanded over the past 8 years.  I'm not sure if that is because of increased media attention or economics & politics.  It must be remembered that while we strive for equal opportunity, this does not translate into equal outcome; people have different abilities & talents.

Before you think "This is just some honky spouting off..." you might consider that this gaijin has experienced the negative side of racial issues (granted - not on a perpetual basis). I've also been shunned for the color of my skin in certain neighborhoods of America.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but we have come a long way. I doubt we're headed back to the days of "strange fruit" in the swamp. Hopefully we will continue on the path of improvement. It's just not going to happen overnight. 

Certainly you are right - things HAVE progressed.  Slavery to indentured servitude to the right to vote and less overt segregation.

However, imo, while things have progressed overall in the right direction, there is still a LONG way to go.  The vile and vitriolic nature of this election, and the last few days show that there is still a very long way to go (and for many other reasons/examples).  I hear a lot of white friends (or people online) stating "Obama only made it worse, and deepened the divide".  I think this is true, but not because of anything Obama has said or done, but by virtue of the fact he is black and our President.  A lot of people have 'come out of the closet' with their racism and hateful attitudes during the last 8 years.  The last year plus with Trump, that has gotten a lot worse.  Obama didn't create more division - but his presence uncovered a lot of what was already there, and Trump has had a similar (albeit much worse) effect.

The problems I have with Trump are multiple - misogyny, racism, anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, anti-other, making fun of the disabled, etc.  I know intellectually that many of Trump's supporters don't share these views, but that they can be overlooked while still supporting him are a real challenge for me.  To me it sounds like "Of course I'm not racist (or insert adjective), but yes, I support one".  This doesn't mesh.

I'm not saying that Hillary is/was perfect.  Far from it.  I hate that the Dems landed on her as their choice.  Real or imagined, she carried way too much baggage that distracted from what should really matter - what do the candidates support and what are their plans.  I can think of 20 people off the top of my head that would have been WAY better, with Bernie at the top of the list.  Bernie (and Obama) have been the most truth-telling politicians we've had in quite some time.  Bernie also said some crazy things, and supported some things that didn't work with actual math, but he is a kind person, he doesn't carry baggage, and I believe he's an honorable man.

I got off track... racism.  It's there - it's always been there, and now we're just seeing more of it.  As brother Malcolm said "I'll take the racist in the white sheet over the one in the suit with a briefcase - at least I know where I stand". (I paraphrased)  Very prescient, and I believe what we're experiencing now.

[MAG]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

Another thread in the COLORADO forum seems to have drifted into a discussion of racism in America. Let's move that discussion here. 

While I'm not saying that racism has been eliminated in America (nor do I think it ever will be, from any society),  I would point out the significant strides that have been made by each generation.  How many personally remember 'colored' water fountains or motels? Some of the fellas may, but I doubt many of the ladies were born before they ceased to exist, even in the Deep South. I remember when the likes of David Duke & Gov. Wallace were major news figures. Now the most racist public figure I can think of is Rev. Sharpton, who seems to interject race into every issue. 

The racial divide appears to have expanded over the past 8 years.  I'm not sure if that is because of increased media attention or economics & politics.  It must be remembered that while we strive for equal opportunity, this does not translate into equal outcome; people have different abilities & talents.

Before you think "This is just some honky spouting off..." you might consider that this gaijin has experienced the negative side of racial issues (granted - not on a perpetual basis). I've also been shunned for the color of my skin in certain neighborhoods of America.

I'm not saying we're perfect, but we have come a long way. I doubt we're headed back to the days of "strange fruit" in the swamp. Hopefully we will continue on the path of improvement. It's just not going to happen overnight. 

No, racism has not been eliminated in America.  In the deep south, there is probably still plenty of racism (against blacks).  That won't change for a long time.

Racism against whites is rampant.  BLM is anti-white.  Blacks get jobs and college admittance in order to fill quotas.  NFL players, who make millions, cry about the lack of opportunity.  Richard Sherman (Seahawks) was complaining about slavery the other day, in response to criticism from a kicker's wife after he committed a personal foul.  That's racism.  He took no responsibility for nearly injuring the kicker, he simply started crying about something that happened nearly two centuries ago.

Some people on this board have compared "racism" today to "racism" in the 60's, implying that we haven't made progress.  That's bullshit.  There are no more lynchings, or church bombings, or segregated bathrooms, schools, buses, or restaurants.  We've had a two-term black president (and he won by landslide both times).

We have far more anti-white racism now, and it's fueled by the liberal media.  Even whites are becoming anti-white.

[MAG]

"There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs – partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."   -- Booker T. Washington

[Happymon]

2 minutes ago, Phil-anderer said:

 I think this is true, but not because of anything Obama has said or done, but by virtue of the fact he is black and our President. 

This is almost as funny as the line in the other thread that he always tells the truth.  You guys are a scream!!   Can't make this shit up!!!

[MAG]

2 minutes ago, Happymon said:

This is almost as funny as the line in the other thread that he always tells the truth.  You guys are a scream!!   Can't make this shit up!!!

Yeah, Obama has said & done plenty to perpetuate the problem -- the problem being "victimhood".

[Phil-anderer]

3 minutes ago, MAG said:

No, racism has not been eliminated in America.  In the deep south, there is probably still plenty of racism (against blacks).  That won't change for a long time.

Racism against whites is rampant.  BLM is anti-white.  Blacks get jobs and college admittance in order to fill quotas.  NFL players, who make millions, cry about the lack of opportunity.  Richard Sherman (Seahawks) was complaining about slavery the other day, in response to criticism from a kicker's wife after he committed a personal foul.  That's racism.  He took no responsibility for nearly injuring the kicker, he simply started crying about something that happened nearly two centuries ago.

Some people on this board have compared "racism" today to "racism" in the 60's, implying that we haven't made progress.  That's bullshit.  There are no more lynchings, or church bombings, or segregated bathrooms, schools, buses, or restaurants.  We've had a two-term black president (and he won by landslide both times).

We have far more anti-white racism now, and it's fueled by the liberal media.  Even whites are becoming anti-white.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy any of this (but respect your opinion on it).  IMO, 'racism against whites' isn't really a thing.  My definition (and for many) of racism is predicated on a perceived difference (i.e. skin color) AND power.  For the most part, blacks simply don't have the positions of power such that they can embody what racism implies.   Can blacks (or minorities) hold hateful views about whites?  Of course.  Can or do they do things that are nefarious or hateful because of it?  Of course.  Hate is hate, no matter from whom it comes.  This is really about institutions, and I don't think anyone can really look at the data critically and say that our systems are not unfair to minorities.

We have made progress, but simply not enough.

A great example of this is law enforcement in our country.  It has been proven over and over again that the system itself discriminates against minorities, and yet, MOST people in this field are not overtly (or covertly) racist.  How can this be?  It's been studied and well-described, but it has to do with the policies and inertia of a system that have been perpetuated, either purposefully or insidiously.  

However, there is no doubt that there is more fear and anger by everyone these days.

Lastly...   I'll add that race is really an artificial construct, and is not supported by medicine.  It's something we, humans, created.

[Phil-anderer]

8 minutes ago, Happymon said:

This is almost as funny as the line in the other thread that he always tells the truth.  You guys are a scream!!   Can't make this shit up!!!

Well, I didn't say he always tells the truth.  He doesn't.  

What I said was " Bernie (and Obama) have been the most truth-telling politicians we've had in quite some time. "

This has been looked at by Politifact and others.  Bernie and Obama are around 20-25% (meaning they lie or tell partial truths) 20-25% of the time.  Trump is around 70%.  You can objectively look at a statement and compare that with what the truth is.  In many cases, the truth is not concrete, such as "the economy has improved significantly with Obama in office".  By most measures, it has - but not all.

[Paul Pudenda]

22 minutes ago, MAG said:

"There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs – partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."   -- Booker T. Washington

Exactly right.  And today, they are called Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.  These two thrive on racism.

[Laci French]

I'm calling for cunts & cocks to unite!!

 

[geecue2]

1 minute ago, Laci French-2940 said:

I'm calling for cunts & cocks to unite!!

 

LMAO , as they should.

[Bit Banger]

1 hour ago, Phil-anderer said:

...

Lastly...   I'll add that race is really an artificial construct, and is not supported by medicine.  It's something we, humans, created.

I would disagree with this statement. I'll grant that the term "race", instead of "sub-species", is in common usage. But there ARE biological differences created by millenia of evolution in specific environments. Caucasians do not tolerate the heat of the tropics as well as darker skinned people; and vis-a-versa.  Africans, by virtue of their extended hunter/gatherer existence, tend to have greater athletic abilities.(What's the racial composition of an NBA team?) These differences are being eliminated as the races blend and technology enhances our ability to survive in those environments.  But it will take millennia to complete the process. 

Please note that I said "differences", not that one set of characteristics is superior to another except w/in specific environments/situations. 

[ilovewomen]

56 minutes ago, Laci French-2940 said:

I'm calling for cunts & cocks to unite!!

 

I second that...cunts & cocks unite as one and we will all be happier and less stressed

[Phil-anderer]

1 hour ago, Bit Banger said:

I would disagree with this statement. I'll grant that the term "race", instead of "sub-species", is in common usage. But there ARE biological differences created by millenia of evolution in specific environments. Caucasians do not tolerate the heat of the tropics as well as darker skinned people; and vis-a-versa.  Africans, by virtue of their extended hunter/gatherer existence, tend to have greater athletic abilities.(What's the racial composition of an NBA team?) These differences are being eliminated as the races blend and technology enhances our ability to survive in those environments.  But it will take millennia to complete the process. 

Please note that I said "differences", not that one set of characteristics is superior to another except w/in specific environments/situations. 

Yes, there are differences between what we call 'different races', but these are related to mostly geography, and not skin color.  Ashkenazi Jews are a perfect example of a small group with specific genetic diseases due to smaller breeding pool.  In climates where malaria is prevalent, the sickle-cell trait was selected for over time because it decreases your risk of malaria.  I think we mostly agree here.

[Bit Banger]

15 minutes ago, Phil-anderer said:

...  I think we mostly agree here.

Yes, we agree that the genetic traits cluster with geography and evolution w/in specific environments. You bring up two other excellent examples. 

[MAG]

2 hours ago, Bit Banger said:

I would disagree with this statement. I'll grant that the term "race", instead of "sub-species", is in common usage. But there ARE biological differences created by millenia of evolution in specific environments. Caucasians do not tolerate the heat of the tropics as well as darker skinned people; and vis-a-versa.  Africans, by virtue of their extended hunter/gatherer existence, tend to have greater athletic abilities.(What's the racial composition of an NBA team?) These differences are being eliminated as the races blend and technology enhances our ability to survive in those environments.  But it will take millennia to complete the process. 

Please note that I said "differences", not that one set of characteristics is superior to another except w/in specific environments/situations. 

These are excellent points -- and it reminds me of a recent dust-up when Ellen Degeneres showed a photoshopped image of her getting a piggy-back ride from Usain Bolt, meant in jest.  She was only commenting on how fast he is.  The libs went nuts, accusing her of racism.  They accused HER, of all people, of racism.

That's how ridiculous this issue has become.

[Laci French]

Mods, please shut this shit talk down. 

[geecue2]

Yes I do not think anyone needs to hear this right now.

[ilovewomen]

2 minutes ago, Laci French-2940 said:

Mods, please shut this shit talk down. 

Mods, I am so sick of hearing  this shit.

This is so divisive and so emotionally charged, America is so divided right now that we don't need this on what is supposed to be a fun board.

 Please shut down this thread.

 

[Phil-anderer]

Honestly, I don't understand why this kind of thread is a bad thing?  It's not vicious or mean, while there is obviously vehement disagreement.  Yes, this board is for getting laid, but it's not all I think about 24/7, and I enjoy other aspects of the board and/or conversation.  Just my thoughts.

[MAG]

8 minutes ago, Phil-anderer said:

Honestly, I don't understand why this kind of thread is a bad thing?  It's not vicious or mean, while there is obviously vehement disagreement.  Yes, this board is for getting laid, but it's not all I think about 24/7, and I enjoy other aspects of the board and/or conversation.  Just my thoughts.

This ^^^

When a thread devolves into petty bullshit, it's usually time to close it.  But there are several active threads on this and similar subjects that all have value, and so far they are mostly constructive.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, MAG said:

This ^^^

When a thread devolves into petty bullshit, it's usually time to close it.  But there are several active threads on this and similar subjects that all have value, and so far they are mostly constructive.

^^THIS^^

A healthy discussion where opposing points of view are given equal value and everyone has a chance to be heard should be encouraged right now in this country. If we simply live in an echo chamber where we only hear one side of an issue, then how will we come to truly understand how other viewpoints are formed and how our opinions/views affect others?

[Phil-anderer]

If people don't like the thread, it's not mandatory to read them.

Laci, I'd much rather see you naked than see you disappointed about a topic, that's for sure.

[MAG]

1 minute ago, MrBigShot said:

^^THIS^^

A healthy discussion where opposing points of view are given equal value and everyone has a chance to be heard should be encouraged right now in this country. If we simply live in an echo chamber where we only hear one side of an issue, then how will we come to truly understand how other viewpoints are formed and how our opinions/views affect others?

^^^ Best post of the day ^^^

Too many people listen to only one news source, or only news sources that align with their views.  I know people who listed to Rush, and only Rush, and their viewpoints are skewed.  The same is true for people who read the liberal websites.  This is why the country is so polarized right now.

[Bit Banger]

22 minutes ago, ilovewomen said:

Mods, I am so sick of hearing  this shit.

This is so divisive and so emotionally charged, America is so divided right now that we don't need this on what is supposed to be a fun board.

 Please shut down this thread.

 

And therein lies the real problem WRT the divided nation. If we don't like the opinions of others, we shut them down, tune them out, and fail to hear or even acknowledge that they may have a difference of opinion on the issues. Without reasoned discussions there can be no progress. By shouting "There's rampant racism!", offering no realistic solutions,  and ignoring the progress that has been made in the past 200 years, you denigrate the efforts of those who worked (and yes - died) for that progress.  We create the echo chambers of the Internet, where -isms fester. Safe zones solve nothing.

So far this thread has maintained a tone of reasonable discourse w/o delving into derogatory personal remarks.  Let's keep it that way.

How does this relate to our corner of the world?  What about the ads which state "No AA men" (racism) or "No one [under | over] 35." (ageism)?

----

BTW: I hate the term African-American. Fully half of the people I know who properly identify with that term are Caucasian. Most who use the label are generations away from Africa. Perhaps I should start labeling myself European-American.

[Phil-anderer]

4 minutes ago, MAG said:

^^^ Best post of the day ^^^

Too many people listen to only one news source, or only news sources that align with their views.  I know people who listed to Rush, and only Rush, and their viewpoints are skewed.  The same is true for people who read the liberal websites.  This is why the country is so polarized right now.

Wow.  I just posted almost the same thing somewhere else.  YES.  What we really need is objective news - and opinion pieces that are labeled as such.  I want facts first - I'm smart enough to make my own conclusions.  Then give me some perspectives guided by opinion or ideology from people I respect (even if I don't agree with them).  I'm always willing to listen to well-reasoned opinions.  We don't have much of this.

[Laci French]

I love healthy discussions because it opens our minds to different thoughts. 

Having those thoughts tear into someones feelings really scares me.

I think that this is a topic where we should tread lightly and respectfully.

 

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

--

BTW: I hate the term African-American. Fully half of the people I know who properly identify with that term are Caucasian. Most who use the label are generations away from Africa. Perhaps I should start labeling myself European-American.

Using this logic I identify as a Horny-Toad presumed to be dead after I was all loved up by a trio of Sirens

[Bit Banger]

1 minute ago, Laci French-2940 said:

I love healthy discussions because it opens our minds to different thoughts. 

Having those thoughts tear into someones feelings really scares me.

I think that this is a topic where we should tread lightly and respectfully.

 

 

I recently viewed an art exhibit related to breast cancer. It tore off a few scabs, caused some pain and introspection. I feel stronger as those wounds re-heal.  Perhaps some catharsis is in order for those who are hypersensitive to these issues. How many of them have personal, life altering experiences, rather than anecdotes of others' experience?  I, for example, lost an internship to a major corporation because of race (I wasn't w/in their quota profile.) This was a career opportunity lost. But I moved on and created other opportunities for a fruitful career; stronger for the experience.