Posted September 10, 2016 The court case against Lester Ralph Jones was declared a mistrial on Friday, as a hung jury could not reach a verdict. http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/09/paige-birgfeld-jury-deadlock/ Signature 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 This sucks. If there ever was an argument for capital punishment, this guy is it. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 8 minutes ago, Laplace said: This sucks. If there ever was an argument for capital punishment, this guy is it. Apparently the jury thought otherwise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 This makes me very sad. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 10, 2016 With the availability of providers I fail to understand rape much less rape-murder. I have read that rape isn't about sex it s about control or anger. If so maybe a visit to a provider who practices submission would help. I just don't like to inflict physical pain, but have been known to do so when angry (on other men). There is too uch violence in our society today. And yes I think it is worse than a decade ago. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, pointymoustache said: There is too uch violence in our society today. And yes I think it is worse than a decade ago. You may think that, but statistically, I'll take my chances right here and now over any other time in history. I'm much more terrified by the kleptocrats than I am by a thug with a gun. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, pointymoustache said: With the availability of providers I fail to understand rape much less rape-murder. I have read that rape isn't about sex it s about control or anger. If so maybe a visit to a provider who practices submission would help. I just don't like to inflict physical pain, but have been known to do so when angry (on other men). There is too uch violence in our society today. And yes I think it is worse than a decade ago. Submissive providers aren't going to cure rapists, submission is about consent and rapists don't care about consent. Ending the stigma around sex workers reduces our chances for violence. We can't stop rapists but we can help make providers less of a target by treating them with respect and helping show the rest of the world we're not second class citizens and easy targets. 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 11, 2016 13 hours ago, Happymon said: Apparently the jury thought otherwise. Depends on how you look at it. Our system requires a unanimous jury decision to convict fro murder. 9 out 12 believed he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The other three as i understand it thought he was probably guilty but NOT beyond a reasonable doubt. Without sitting in the courtroom every day it is hard to say and I did not, but everything I have heard outside strongly implies this life time fuck up indeed is the one who killed her. A side note on the dangers of criticizing juries without sitting through all the testimony - two separate stories on Jon Benet Ramsey, one on A&E and one on NBC. You would think there were two Jon Benets and two entirely different murders. The NBC story was some of the absolute WORST journalism I have ever seen. I will never believe another word from Josh Mankiewicz. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 11, 2016 Hell is a bar in Dublin. Beside me to the left and right ... Lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, meter maid, lawyer, lawyer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, gr8owl said: Without sitting in the courtroom every day it is hard to say My entire point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2016 On 9/10/2016 at 7:34 PM, Happymon said: You may think that, but statistically, I'll take my chances right here and now over any other time in history. Ditto. I try to explain this to friends, but because they see so much crime on TV and on their Facebook feeds, they think crime has increased. I try to explain that when they were kids they only saw local news unless it was a huge story and now they get news from across the country and around the world all condensed into a small space. For the most part, they don't get it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2016 The amount of violence has increased in this country as television and video games have desensitized us as a nation and it has also blinded us to what has really been happening in this country....Here is something that I saw recently that made me consider many things which I had taken for granted all these years but can not do so any longer....While it is a bit off topic, it could very well explain why many of us are upset by the verdict in this case being a hung jury....People are no longer informed in this country and that is a huge problem so it is nearly impossible to expect that justice will ever be served in the manner which it was intended and used in ways it was never intended to be used.... The only way to fix any problem is by admitting there is one.... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 12, 2016 Before you come to Denver next time, just search the board for "where to stay in Denver or places to stay in Denver". Several threads with a lot of information wil appear. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Barbi said: The amount of violence has increased in this country as television and video games have desensitized us as a nation and it has also blinded us to what has really been happening in this country....Here is something that I saw recently that made me consider many things which I had taken for granted all these years but can not do so any longer....While it is a bit off topic, it could very well explain why many of us are upset by the verdict in this case being a hung jury....People are no longer informed in this country and that is a huge problem so it is nearly impossible to expect that justice will ever be served in the manner which it was intended and used in ways it was never intended to be used.... The only way to fix any problem is by admitting there is one.... Respectfully.... I disagree on both points. Crime has gone down in most major categories in the country. Observational bias tells/suggests to us there is more, but the statistics are the statistics. As for the clip, I LOVE the clip! And admitting there is a problem is the first step, but IMHO the step most of us are missing is the ACTION step. In no way am I criticizing you, and you were probably thinking the same things I just wrote. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Barbi said: The amount of violence has increased in this country as television and video games have desensitized us as a nation and it has also blinded us to what has really been happening in this country....Here is something that I saw recently that made me consider many things which I had taken for granted all these years but can not do so any longer....While it is a bit off topic, it could very well explain why many of us are upset by the verdict in this case being a hung jury....People are no longer informed in this country and that is a huge problem so it is nearly impossible to expect that justice will ever be served in the manner which it was intended and used in ways it was never intended to be used.... The only way to fix any problem is by admitting there is one.... I could not agree more with the highlighted in red. Which is precisely how unconnected, shallow surface-only, raw bullshit like this video can pass for marvelously insightful observations. It is drivel suitable only for those too lazy to look at the whole picture in depth. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, gr8owl said: I could not agree more with the highlighted in red. Which is precisely how unconnected, shallow surface-only, raw bullshit like this video can pass for marvelously insightful observations. It is drivel suitable only for those too lazy to look at the whole picture in depth. Did you see the burn Ann Coulter deliver Rob Lowe? She congratulated him on managing to be the worst part of an Aaron Sorkin show. Sorkin is polarizing and Newsroom was just a TV show. I <3 Jeff Daniels. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 13, 2016 Looking at the whole picture in depth is rather difficult to do given the political system in this country that is responsible for making major decisions that affect our lives of which we truly have no choices...The are responsible for some of the worst laws ever passed in modern history and no one ever asked me if I agreed with them...Did they ask you??? They have made some huge so called mistakes without regard of how those choices would affect you or me, instead they did it for their own financial gain...Those in politics or working for the government are required to report any conflict of interest they have when there is any type of federal funding involved in a situation, but they dont...I personally have been looking into government programs and found 150 instances in 150 reports where there was a conflict of interest with a company doing business with the state of Colorado...That is political corruption and 150 out of 150 doesnt look good for us, that 100% of the time there is a problem....And it has not made a difference who was in office the reports have spanned from Romer to our current governor, so the political affiation makes no difference....Its not a matter of who we elect they dont pass the smell test.... Everyone got too caught up in their own lives to pay attention to the important things and that is the problem now...We stopped paying attention to what was going on around us, while they have passed laws that determine our lives...There is a serious problem in this country and it has taken over our country and it controls our lives making decisions from how our children are educated to the kind of health care we get now and it is even responsible for the foods we now consume...And look at the choices we have now....Trump or Killary???? Those are not choices they are a joke...Do you ever get the feeling those responsible for the tail that wags the dog are laughing at us??? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 I bet you anything if she wasn't a Escort, he would have been guilty across the board. Honestly, we have providers and clients right here in Colorado who don't give a fuck if providers or clients get hurt. So why should we expect the police fbi or a grand jury to give a shit? Just saying... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 21 hours ago, Barbi said: Looking at the whole picture in depth is rather difficult to do given the political system in this country that is responsible for making major decisions that affect our lives of which we truly have no choices...The are responsible for some of the worst laws ever passed in modern history and no one ever asked me if I agreed with them...Did they ask you??? They have made some huge so called mistakes without regard of how those choices would affect you or me, instead they did it for their own financial gain...Those in politics or working for the government are required to report any conflict of interest they have when there is any type of federal funding involved in a situation, but they dont...I personally have been looking into government programs and found 150 instances in 150 reports where there was a conflict of interest with a company doing business with the state of Colorado...That is political corruption and 150 out of 150 doesnt look good for us, that 100% of the time there is a problem....And it has not made a difference who was in office the reports have spanned from Romer to our current governor, so the political affiation makes no difference....Its not a matter of who we elect they dont pass the smell test.... Everyone got too caught up in their own lives to pay attention to the important things and that is the problem now...We stopped paying attention to what was going on around us, while they have passed laws that determine our lives...There is a serious problem in this country and it has taken over our country and it controls our lives making decisions from how our children are educated to the kind of health care we get now and it is even responsible for the foods we now consume...And look at the choices we have now....Trump or Killary???? Those are not choices they are a joke...Do you ever get the feeling those responsible for the tail that wags the dog are laughing at us??? Three words for this: Vote Gary Johnson Or keep voting for the lame ass candidates the "two" major parties nominate. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 8 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said: I bet you anything if she wasn't a Escort, he would have been guilty across the board. Honestly, we have providers and clients right here in Colorado who don't give a fuck if providers or clients get hurt. So why should we expect the police fbi or a grand jury to give a shit? Just saying... I am not a major defender of LE in general, however, in this partucular case (and there are others) le and da both worked doggedly and pretty relentlessly for years on this case. They did not even have a body for years. By nature of her business it was very difficult to track who the list of suspects were. Bottom line i think your comments are not fair in THIS case and le should actually be commended in THIS case for sticking with investigation for years. Hopefully a new trial and new jury with better results. It is a high standard to hit for conviction in murder cases without witnesses or dna evidence. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, gr8owl said: I am not a major defender of LE in general, however, in this partucular case (and there are others) le and da both worked doggedly and pretty relentlessly for years on this case. They did not even have a body for years. By nature of her business it was very difficult to track who the list of suspects were. Bottom line i think your comments are not fair in THIS case and le should actually be commended in THIS case for sticking with investigation for years. Hopefully a new trial and new jury with better results. It is a high standard to hit for conviction in murder cases without witnesses or dna evidence. That is your opinion, and Iv have mine and I am sticking with it. I see it as fair. When the jury knows for a fact the guy is guilty, but not reasonable doubt, means the jury allowed him to get away with it. I still stand by what I said. Not you or anyone else can change my mind. Edited September 14, 2016 by Nikki Holiday 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 As much as I also want justice for Paige, if the jurors were not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of this man's guilt then the mistrial is appropriate. That's is how the system is supposed to work. It's the prosecutions burden to present a case with sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant. In this case, the prosecution fell short of accomplishing that. I too hope they are better prepared for the retrial. If not, then the jury must find him not-guilty. That is the way it is supposed to work in our system. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 Our justice system is just shattered https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-jail-time-iowa-teen-141027964.html 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 14, 2016 8 minutes ago, Laci French-2940 said: Our justice system is just shattered https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-jail-time-iowa-teen-141027964.html I totally agree. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 She is not the only escort murdered in recent years...I know of at least one more 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 42 minutes ago, abigailfox said: She is not the only escort murdered in recent years...I know of at least one more Last i knew the count in or near long island was up to 6 with all bodies dumped in same area. Sadly it happens much more often than we hear. By the nature of business as long as remains illegal the ladies make too easy targets. Paige has gone on to her final destination, hopefully a good one. The main thing at this point is to stop whoever the animal is that did this to her from ever doing to anyone else. Whether by prison or .... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 11 hours ago, Danielle Rae said: As much as I also want justice for Paige, if the jurors were not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of this man's guilt then the mistrial is appropriate. That's is how the system is supposed to work. It's the prosecutions burden to present a case with sufficient evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt the guilt of the defendant. In this case, the prosecution fell short of accomplishing that. I too hope they are better prepared for the retrial. If not, then the jury must find him not-guilty. That is the way it is supposed to work in our system. Perfectly stated. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 I was not referring to just the governments case in this situation but the entire system in this country over all....But as was stated above it is the governments duty to prove that the defendant in fact did the crime beyond a reasonable doubt and the failed to do that, regardless of the reason the failed to convince the jury and that is their duty and responsibility in any criminal proceeding...it does not matter how hard the DA and LE work to prepare a case, if their evidence is not convincing it is likely the will not be successful as the evidence must substantiate the defendant did in fact commit the crime...I am positive there is much involved with this case that the public will never know and it is actually probably better that way as there are some sick individuals who would use the case as the pattern for their own sick and twisted criminal endeavors and that is why often times the gruesome details of such cases are never made public and I am certain there are times that the jury might not even be aware of the entire details of such things which could be very unfortunate as that could possible make a difference in their decisions when deciding the verdict in such cases....And even if they must endure the gruesome details, for many it is impossible for them to wrap their mind around such things or try to consider what it might have been like being in her place and that also affects the decisions that they make....That is all something that we will never know for sure and while it is sad that the jury was unable to reach an unanimous verdict in the case and it could be possible that they dont even have the right person in this case or just as bad that they do not have enough evidence to get a conviction and a murder will be set free but that is the chance we all take living in a democratic society and it requires in order to get a conviction they must get all twelve but the defendant only needs one.... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 15, 2016 And unfortunately when laidies do not provide references and the gentlemen do not check and provide reviews, there will always be the possibility that someone could get harmed as a result of such things...That is the problem with prohibition it creates a potentially dangerous situation for everyone involved....So everyone be careful out there please as you have all become a part of this community and it would be heartbreaking if something bad were to happen to any one of us here.... But on a more positive note what do you think about the Broncos this year??? PMSL...I am cetain you all get my point....So I hope each and everyone of you have a wonderful day..... 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted September 20, 2016 On September 14, 2016 at 9:31 AM, gr8owl said: I am not a major defender of LE in general, however, in this partucular case (and there are others) le and da both worked doggedly and pretty relentlessly for years on this case. They did not even have a body for years. By nature of her business it was very difficult to track who the list of suspects were. Bottom line i think your comments are not fair in THIS case and le should actually be commended in THIS case for sticking with investigation for years. Hopefully a new trial and new jury with better results. It is a high standard to hit for conviction in murder cases without witnesses or dna evidence. I guess I'm confused by the maze of our legal system. What is the difference between a mistrial due to a hung jury (which can be retried) and double indemnity? I mean which takes precedence over which? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
