Posted July 8, 2016 I just want to thank the local community, boards and screening services for perpetuating the belief that many or most providers aren’t capable of being professional, discreet and trustworthy with screening information. The idea that women should visit with strange men in private with just the vouching of random providers giving ok’s or saying they are safe is fairly ridiculous. Remember these are the same women you guys aren't supposed to trust with your personal information. I ask this… if the provider ok’s a guy and he ends up beating, raping, robbing, blackmailing… her, do you then recommend her going back to the providers who ok’d him, or the screening service who likely only verified him through two references as well, and saying well gee he wasn’t a great guy after all you suck for saying he was! She then has to live knowing John Doe and Throw Away Phone Number did this to her. How many of you would be comfortable with that thought the rest of your lives? Some of you ladies are perfectly fine with this system. Perhaps it hasn’t failed you yet. I hope very much that it never does! I have been around here for quite a while and have always screened with real world information, and will continue doing so. If this precludes many of you from visiting with me then so be it. I care more about my health, happiness, safety and security than many it seems. I realize men have something to lose if anything was to go awry with the provider he has given personal information to, but that is what verifying her reputation before doing so is for. Not to mention, that yes, maybe your life could be damaged socially or professionally, but have any of you ever heard of providers, themselves, killing, raping or beating clients? We simply have more to lose as we have all the things you have to worry about along with the rest and more of what I just stated. I have said it many times before… if you have so much to lose, perhaps find a safer hobby such as golf. I turn down far more appointments these days than the ones I take. I have no choice but to as there is so much paranoia surrounding screening, I simply can’t get what I need to feel safe most of the time anymore. Where is the paranoia coming from? Where is the data to back up the stated "facts" that if you give your information to established, well known reputable providers that your life and well being is in jeopardy? I know of only 3 women who were major problems in this community in 12 years of being in it. When I started in this business… there was an underlying respect and trust between client and provider. Screening services have motive to scare people with thoughts of blackmail and being outed because it drives business their way. Don’t get me wrong, I use and appreciate these services, but to put the fear into the client base, making it virtually impossible to screen outside of their services is just self serving and has done nothing to perpetuate harmony between us all. Ladies please worry about your safety above all else. Gentlemen, please understand that the majority of us are not looking to damage you in any way. I know the nature of this board. I know how nasty many people can be. I know how client-centric it is, so feel free to flame away. The great thing about having the established reputation of a long time, well reviewed and reputable provider is that I don’t have to pander to people to get business. On that note… have a wonderful, prosperous and safe weekend! Fondly, Alex Joy 22 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, Alex Joy said: I simply can’t get what I need to feel safe most of the time anymore. Me neither. But my golf game has improved. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Alex Joy said: When I started in this business… there was an underlying respect and trust between client and provider. Amen! Would love to get back to the good ol' days when this was the status quo and not the exception. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 Hi Alex, So besides oks from a third party, what additional information do you ask for? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, Freedom1 said: Hi Alex, So besides oks from a third party, what additional information do you ask for? Hello Freedom1, Because I am professional, discreet and know how to be trustworthy (wink wink), I prefer to keep my screening methods between my clients and myself. My methods are not for public consumption as it would give helpful information to those wanting to try to thwart screening processes, and that would just be silly now wouldn't it? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, Alex Joy said: My methods are not for public consumption as it would give helpful information to those wanting to try to thwart screening processes, and that would just be silly now wouldn't it? I'm not sure if its silly but I cannot see a reason not to openly state that you require a real phone number connected to an identifiable person, if in fact that is what you require. Your OP suggests that you require this in addition to a p411 membership (I'm assuming that's what you meant by screening service). If that's true, why not say so? How would being clear about that give helpful information to someone trying to thwart the process? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, Raoul said: I'm not sure if its silly but I cannot see a reason not to openly state that you require a real phone number connected to an identifiable person, if in fact that is what you require. Your OP suggests that you require this in addition to a p411 membership (I'm assuming that's what you meant by screening service). If that's true, why not say so? How would being clear about that give helpful information to someone trying to thwart the process? Unless you're planning on booking with her(in which case you will know), what fucking business is it of yours? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Raoul said: I'm not sure if its silly but I cannot see a reason not to openly state that you require a real phone number connected to an identifiable person, if in fact that is what you require. Your OP suggests that you require this in addition to a p411 membership (I'm assuming that's what you meant by screening service). If that's true, why not say so? How would being clear about that give helpful information to someone trying to thwart the process? As soon as they know the requirements, those who want to "trick" the screener (and they do exist) know exactly what they need to do, to fool the screener. And believe me, they'll start working on it. Remember when LE infiltrated a screening service here? LE creates fake identities frequently, as do many criminal types. Edited July 8, 2016 by pfunk 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MrReindeer-9515 said: Unless you're planning on booking with her(in which case you will know), what fucking business is it of yours? What's the point of my contacting her if she is going to ask for what I won't give. If I knew that in advance, I could save us both some time. Besides she brought it up and I'm a member of this forum just like you, so you can bite me. Edited July 8, 2016 by Raoul 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, Raoul said: I'm not sure if its silly but I cannot see a reason not to openly state that you require a real phone number connected to an identifiable person, if in fact that is what you require. Your OP suggests that you require this in addition to a p411 membership (I'm assuming that's what you meant by screening service). If that's true, why not say so? How would being clear about that give helpful information to someone trying to thwart the process? As always... it starts. TOB is nothing if not predictable. Bottomline is this... if one isn't willing to give me whatever information I ask for, and it changes on a regular basis depending on many different factors, then just don't contact me at all. My website is very informative and so is the review board. Attitude usually comes through loud and clear to me, and I will tell you this, someones attitude has a direct bearing on just how hard I screen as well as if I choose to visit with him even after he is screened. I have no time or interest in meeting with men who make it apparent that they feel more important than me, or don't care about my safety and comfort level, or obviously feel entitled in other ways. Luckily there are many gentlemen left out there. I obviously have met enough to keep me around. Perhaps let go of a bit of the screening paranoia though. . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, Raoul said: (1) What's the point of my contacting her if she is going to ask for I won't give. (2) If I knew that in advance, I could save us both some time... (1) I'm not sure if you're referring to the OP or ladies in general, but if you are uncomfortable in following her screening (via her website, reviews, or time of booking) or don't want to divulge personal info, why would you go any further? (2) I think you/we do (or should) know most well-reviewed ladies screening policies. If she's new, this is different and you have to contact her for screening preferences. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 12 minutes ago, BigBaldBlk said: I think you/we do (or should) know most well-reviewed ladies screening policies. If she's new, this is different and you have to contact her for screening preferences. The prevalence of burner phones has changed things, I think. My question here is a rather narrow one. It relates to p411 and burner phones, specifically. We recently had a fairly lengthy back and forth with Trystyn's thread about screening in which she said she required either p411 or a real phone. Other ladies appear to require your real phone in addition to p411. After looking at the OP's p411 profile and her website, I cannot tell. Look, I've known the OP since when her name was the other way 'round, as have you, BBB. But I will never again give up my real world info to anyone in this world. Maybe someday I will share what happened to me. But not today. What would be so hard about putting "no burner phones" in your ad if that's your policy? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Raoul said: The prevalence of burner phones has changed things, I think. My question here is a rather narrow one. It relates to p411 and burner phones, specifically. We recently had a fairly lengthy back and forth with Trystyn's thread about screening in which she said she required either p411 or a real phone. Other ladies appear to require your real phone in addition to p411. After looking at the OP's p411 profile and her website, I cannot tell. Look, I've known the OP since when her name was the other way 'round, as have you, BBB. But I will never again give up my real world info to anyone in this world. Maybe someday I will share what happened to me. But not today. What would be so hard about putting "no burner phones" in your ad if that's your policy? Since she stated in her OP that she uses Real World information, Since we've all known her since before the name change, Since your information has ostensibly been previously compromised, but yet you persist in this dangerous activity, I'll ask again, burner phone provisos notwithstanding, why is it any of your fucking business? Edited July 8, 2016 by MrReindeer-9515 Science! And changed order of two words... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, MrReindeer-9515 said: I'll ask again, burner phone provisos notwithstanding, why is it any of your fucking business? And I will answer again, Alex brought it up. Freedom asked what she required other than third party okays, and Alex replied its a secret. At that point I asked why do screening methods have to be secret. i believe that's when you started swearing at me. I am all for providers doing whatever they feel they need to do to feel safe. I'm gonna do the same. Prior to Alex's post today I would not have known what her requirements are based on her ads and website. Now I do. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 32 minutes ago, Raoul said: And I will answer again, Alex brought it up. Freedom asked what she required other than third party okays, and Alex replied its a secret. At that point I asked why do screening methods have to be secret. i believe that's when you started swearing at me. I am all for providers doing whatever they feel they need to do to feel safe. I'm gonna do the same. Prior to Alex's post today I would not have known what her requirements are based on her ads and website. Now I do. So, in other words, you've got no dog in the fight, but you want to pitch whiney complaints about someone's screening process in the guise of asking stupid, already answered questions? Keepin it Classy! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 1 hour ago, MrReindeer-9515 said: <snip> Keepin it Classy! 3 posts and each one is in your classy form. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 Some people just like to be argumentative. I have better things to do than sit around and argue online. Thanks for reading my posts though. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 It's funny that this is being talked about so frequently. Myself being new to this and trying to do it the safest way. I tried earlier to contact a provider, in which I have always been polite and as honest as I felt comfortable with. I had emailed back and forth trying to get the "ok" I jumped through hoops and gave up a little more information than I wanted because I thought I was doing the right thing. Anyways I was told to call her at a certain time.. I did and after a few hours of no call back I felt taken advantage of. Super embarrassed and upset. Who knows who has my info. And I hope every day it doesn't fuck up my life. I tried contacting another girl and was told that I didn't have a chance because I didn't have enough references and told good luck. Out of that experience I got upset and asked everyone on here for help and was fed to the wolves. Got heckled by a few but did get some helpful advice. Either way. I want to be safe, I want providers to feel safe. thats why I'm here. To learn and stop shooting in the dark with providers. With how crazy the world is becoming why wouldn't you want to be cautious.. But if it's impossible to set up with someone is that just bad business? If it's with your life than no way. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 15 hours ago, Alex Joy said: When I started in this business… there was an underlying respect and trust between client and provider. Screening services have motive to scare people with thoughts of blackmail and being outed because it drives business their way. Don’t get me wrong, I use and appreciate these services, but to put the fear into the client base, making it virtually impossible to screen outside of their services is just self serving and has done nothing to perpetuate harmony between us all. Ladies please worry about your safety above all else. Gentlemen, please understand that the majority of us are not looking to damage you in any way. I know the nature of this board. I know how nasty many people can be. I know how client-centric it is, so feel free to flame away. The great thing about having the established reputation of a long time, well reviewed and reputable provider is that I don’t have to pander to people to get business. On that note… have a wonderful, prosperous and safe weekend! Fondly, Alex Joy I am mostly UTR but this struck a cord with me and I want to applaud you Alex I guess you could say I have been a " hobbyist" all my life Anyway, IMHO the Internet was originally a great blessing but has become a curse as well . It has made it way too easy for providers and clients and that results in hightened risks for all of us. In the early days we had a "club" With ladies and men That knew each other, had social events and had each others' backs . I had friends (both men and women) all over the country . This was pretty much UTR but over time it was like peeling on onion. In my case one guy reached out to me and WE HAD LUNCH, then I was invited to join the"group" . Gradually I met some ladies and other men and gradually I was invited to join smaller and smaller groups . Some guys were in a few groups (geographical) and I began to learn about other parts of the country . Those were "the good ole days"and I miss them Finally, as Alex puts it, there needs to be mutual trust, knowing we all have a lot to loose. Stick to your guns Alex. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 6 hours ago, mdiver said: I am mostly UTR but this struck a cord with me and I want to applaud you Alex I guess you could say I have been a " hobbyist" all my life Anyway, IMHO the Internet was originally a great blessing but has become a curse as well . It has made it way too easy for providers and clients and that results in hightened risks for all of us. In the early days we had a "club" With ladies and men That knew each other, had social events and had each others' backs . I had friends (both men and women) all over the country . This was pretty much UTR but over time it was like peeling on onion. In my case one guy reached out to me and WE HAD LUNCH, then I was invited to join the"group" . Gradually I met some ladies and other men and gradually I was invited to join smaller and smaller groups . Some guys were in a few groups (geographical) and I began to learn about other parts of the country . Those were "the good ole days"and I miss them Finally, as Alex puts it, there needs to be mutual trust, knowing we all have a lot to loose. Stick to your guns Alex. Things have changed since way back in the day for sure. All of you new people that have only been here for the last 8 years wouldn't even recognize the place. It was a quiet place by comparison. There was respect even if you didn't agree. When I first came here in 01, 02, I think there was maybe 30 girls between Denver and the Springs. Le was still concerned with street walkers. I'm not even sure when things changed exactly, but when T.O. left I think a lot of people left with him. He kept a good house. Then, people came on here and said all kinds of things over and over and eventually fear crept in, people clamed up, nobody trusts each other. And there were no consequences for bad behavior. We adapt, and move on. I can see a definite change for the better over the last few months. I hope it continues to improve. Alex Joy can't tell you what her screening methods are. I get why. For more reasons than one, but mostly the trust is gone. Le being around and all why would she let them know her methods? That's just one example. Like I said, we've had to adapt. Bottom line, you guys need to respect our need to feel safe from the MANY threats we face. We don't plaster it for you to see for safety. Whether it be from le, other girls, media, stalkers, neighbors etc, etc. The guys have had to adapt as well. You new guys need to do yourselves a favor and listen to the old timers. See well reviewed ladies who have a reputation for being discreet! The girls who have in the past been allowed to run amuck are few. We don't list them, because it is against the rules. Don't like it? Take it up with the powers that be. I have a code I live by...it's called old school. It, among other things, provide trust. It's the foundation of the the business. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, JustFine said: Paranoia will persist and increase because no one, including this site as well as other 3rd party sites, does Anything for our mutual safety. Its mentioned that "only 3 women who were major problems in this community" but since no names or specifics are given we (those of us not in the know) are left to attempt google searches without any names. Its also mentioned that "LE creates fake identities frequently, as do many criminal types. " but where are the specifics? Where is the section on "LE tactics used in the past" along with "compromised member names used by LE" ?? I agree with your complaints, and understand that this site hides a lot of information, which could be useful to both clients and providers. Unfortunately for us, the board owner decides what gets publishd here. Without knowing the owners' costs, risks, and legal standing, I can't criticize. There was another local board, shut down in the last couple years, and the owner arrested, and jailed. This is a risky businesss to be in, which probably expains all the paranoia. Ya pays ya money...Ya takes ya chances! Edited July 9, 2016 by pfunk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 9, 2016 18 hours ago, Alex Joy said: Hello Freedom1, Because I am professional, discreet and know how to be trustworthy (wink wink), I prefer to keep my screening methods between my clients and myself. My methods are not for public consumption as it would give helpful information to those wanting to try to thwart screening processes, and that would just be silly now wouldn't it? EXACTLY!! Why make it public? If someone wants to see you, they can contact you and then they will know how you screen. Until then, nobody's business!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 10, 2016 On 7/8/2016 at 1:15 PM, Alex Joy said: I just want to thank the local community, boards and screening services for perpetuating the belief that many or most providers aren’t capable of being professional, discreet and trustworthy with screening information. The idea that women should visit with strange men in private with just the vouching of random providers giving ok’s or saying they are safe is fairly ridiculous. Remember these are the same women you guys aren't supposed to trust with your personal information. I ask this… if the provider ok’s a guy and he ends up beating, raping, robbing, blackmailing… her, do you then recommend her going back to the providers who ok’d him, or the screening service who likely only verified him through two references as well, and saying well gee he wasn’t a great guy after all you suck for saying he was! She then has to live knowing John Doe and Throw Away Phone Number did this to her. How many of you would be comfortable with that thought the rest of your lives? Some of you ladies are perfectly fine with this system. Perhaps it hasn’t failed you yet. I hope very much that it never does! I have been around here for quite a while and have always screened with real world information, and will continue doing so. If this precludes many of you from visiting with me then so be it. I care more about my health, happiness, safety and security than many it seems. I realize men have something to lose if anything was to go awry with the provider he has given personal information to, but that is what verifying her reputation before doing so is for. Not to mention, that yes, maybe your life could be damaged socially or professionally, but have any of you ever heard of providers, themselves, killing, raping or beating clients? We simply have more to lose as we have all the things you have to worry about along with the rest and more of what I just stated. I have said it many times before… if you have so much to lose, perhaps find a safer hobby such as golf. I turn down far more appointments these days than the ones I take. I have no choice but to as there is so much paranoia surrounding screening, I simply can’t get what I need to feel safe most of the time anymore. Where is the paranoia coming from? Where is the data to back up the stated "facts" that if you give your information to established, well known reputable providers that your life and well being is in jeopardy? I know of only 3 women who were major problems in this community in 12 years of being in it. When I started in this business… there was an underlying respect and trust between client and provider. Screening services have motive to scare people with thoughts of blackmail and being outed because it drives business their way. Don’t get me wrong, I use and appreciate these services, but to put the fear into the client base, making it virtually impossible to screen outside of their services is just self serving and has done nothing to perpetuate harmony between us all. Ladies please worry about your safety above all else. Gentlemen, please understand that the majority of us are not looking to damage you in any way. I know the nature of this board. I know how nasty many people can be. I know how client-centric it is, so feel free to flame away. The great thing about having the established reputation of a long time, well reviewed and reputable provider is that I don’t have to pander to people to get business. On that note… have a wonderful, prosperous and safe weekend! Fondly, Alex Joy This is great! Well worded and better than I tried to...I just come off sounding like a bitch tbh. I have all but stopped accepting references entirely, but I require a real phone # in just about every case and some guys aren't having it. But...it's proven to be the best % of good encounters for me with the least amount of work for me. The guys who are ok with this method are aware that I have plenty to lose also...once a chick gets that psycho label by outing someone, good luck ever getting rid of it. And LE? I'm already out of chances. Cannot happen. Out a guy to his wife? Why would I get a man's wife involved when all it does is put ME at the top of her shit list and him without clean clothes or spending money for us lovely ladies. Misusing someone's info to get them in hot water for something I do as my job is karmic and social suicide. I'd rather just get over it. Guys, needing just a shred of info is not asking too much if im gonna be pleasuring you with a smile and without it I am just too skittish to be happy and relaxed. You DO want me to be able to chill for a sec, right? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 10, 2016 Alex... I've seen providers in various parts of the United States that I lived in. And very much respect your integrity as a person, human being, woman and as a provider. And this is just me speaking... I think some guy's get frustrated because they can't see that particular provider. Me: the fact that a provider that I get to know over time is very special. I have no problem sharing Birthday Cards, buying her dinner, or taking her shopping ! The provider is special because she is. I feel she is granting me the privilege to be one of her regular's. Keep doing what makes you happy Alex Joy ! There are some of us here that don't want harm to any of you. 1hapyfeller 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 10, 2016 On 7/9/2016 at 8:20 AM, Melissa Sterling said: I have a code I live by...it's called old school. It, among other things, provide trust. It's the foundation of the the business. Unfortunately this is not often the case in the Sensual Body Rub world. A lot of men who are seeking sensual body rubs are complete Newbies. I feel like this is the place where a lot of men get their start in the body rub/escort world. They start with sensual body rubs, and most will eventually work themselves up to seeing escorts. Most of these men are not going to have any reputable references, have never done anything like this before and are scared shitless about engaging in their first encounter. In essence they are like deer watching for any signs of danger so they can run away. I can't run out there waving flaming sparklers demanding real world information to a paranoid deer. These men will get freaked out, and simply run away. This is pretty much my only qualm with the Sensual Body Rub world because it is extremely difficult to attempt any form of standard screening for this sector of the hobby world. Hence my post where I said I rely HEAVILY on my gut instincts about each man that contacts me as my best way to screen a potential client. I wish more than anything that this was all legal, and that only safe, quality and nice gentleman contacted me. Sadly this is not the reality of things though. The men have to deal with LE, cash-n-dash girls, being robbed by a pimp hiding in the shower, someone blackmailing/extorting them for money, etc etc etc The women have to deal with LE, being robbed, being raped, being killed, being kidnapped, being drugged, being shorted, being taken advantage of, used to get accounts on verified sites, bullied/abused by pimps, bullied/threatened by other providers, blackmailed, threatened to have real world info outed, worried they will have their kids taken from them, etc etc etc We are All paranoid... and rightfully so. Until LE and dangerous people go away forever nothing will ever be able to change. I don't think the answer is to only see women with tons of reviews or only see men with 800 references. It's about a case-by-case basis to decipher who is Okay to see, and who is someone best left unseen. What may work today for screening, may not work tomorrow for me. LE and dangerous individuals are extremely crafty, and are always changing the way they operate. Why does everything on here often "seem" to have to be only Black or White? I used to love concrete answers and ways of doing things until I realized that it left no give and take to various types of situations that come into play throwing off traditional systems of operation. Gray sure isn't a pretty pigment, but it sure is a balanced one. And... a good way to always keep people on their toes lol 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) From a newbie standpoint, Scarlett is right on. My first experience was with a GFE provider. Downside was she had to deal with a newbie who hadn't come up through the ranks and although my experience was fantastic, I'm sure her experience left much to be desired, hence a good tip! I will say that when I read these forums the paranoia really starts to kick in, I start doing some research started to wonder about what happens if I do get caught up with LE, what are the consequences, how should I behave. ToB and P411 seem so much better than BP or just cruising the streets (I've done neither actually, I stumbled on ToB right out of the gate, so I count myself lucky). But I think it can lull a client into a false sense of security because it seems just like going on A**zon to find what you are looking for. I think I made some newbie mistakes around information that I've started to correct, but part of me also says I'm seeing these YL's for a specific reason and that seems to imply there has to be a certain level of trust. I guess bottom line is that providers will use what they feel works for them to be safe, clients will probably always push the envelope (because being male we tend to think with the little head, damn the torpedoes full speed ahead!) and we should all be working towards making s** work legal. [snip] imagine the coffers with a little loving, touching and squeezing! In the immortal words of Sergeant Phil Esterhaus "Hey, let's be careful out there". Edited July 10, 2016 by Kaduk content 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
