Posted January 7, 2016 I didn't know that website but I hope they didn't have credit cards information and personal info stored in their servers like Ashley Madison 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2016 That's what worries me about P411, even if they strongly say that they don't keep any kind of personal information. When you register with them they have all your info (ID pictures, etc) in their email system/servers and I'm not sure if they delete that information with the appropriated software so as not to be recovered by the FBI. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2016 I had to open up the thread...your headline made it seem like you were talking about TOB. Sigh of relief 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Bora Bora said: That's what worries me about P411, even if they strongly say that they don't keep any kind of personal information. When you register with them they have all your info (ID pictures, etc) in their email system/servers and I'm not sure if they delete that information with the appropriated software so as not to be recovered by the FBI. The FBI has no jurisdiction in Canada ....... that is where their servers are. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bora Bora said: That's what worries me about P411, even if they strongly say that they don't keep any kind of personal information. When you register with them they have all your info (ID pictures, etc) in their email system/servers and I'm not sure if they delete that information with the appropriated software so as not to be recovered by the FBI. P411 is off shore. They are based out of another country. I wouldn't waste your time worrying about them. They have alternative payment methods. If you have hobby email, hobby phone, two legit references your personal info wouldn't even on there site. All you have to do is learn how to protect your personal information. Edited January 7, 2016 by Nikki Holiday 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2016 Nothing is ever... 100% safe. However I put my trust in the people who own/run P411. They are always on top of new laws & regulations. They stay on top of it before it gets on top of them. This is why I won't pay to advertise on EROS. They wanted my real name, driver's license and face photos submitted because I choose not to show my face in my advertising photos... LMAO... Umm NO lol!! I'm old as dirt lol. I don't need to prove I'm over 18 years old at this stage in my life lol. Most likely... and I have been wrong before lol... that site in the OP's post was found to have underage escorts advertising and working on there. That's why Redbook (is that it or that women's magazine LOL?) got shut down. They were found to have minors advertising on their sites. In my opinion those sites deserve to be shut down, and taken over by the federal government. Their number one priority should always be to eliminate any possibility of any minors getting an account on their site. 99% of the time this happens there is also some despicable pimp lingering behind the scenes. Do not cater to this atrocity! Once again P411 is on top of that. If you are under a certain age you must provide legal documentation of your real information to prove you are at least 18 years of age. I appreciate the staff at P411 immensely for "taking care of business" properly. This is why I love being apart of their site. They are a quality service that looks out for the Good of all, not just the owners bank accounts. Plus it doesn't hurt that they are in Canada too lol. The most wise thing to do here now is... DO NOT CLICK ON THAT LINK ABOVE! (Your IP address is probably being sent/forwarded automatically to the FBI... just sayin'... It's better to be safe than sorry.) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 5 hours ago, mustang said: The FBI has no jurisdiction in Canada ....... that is where their servers are. You should really read this. It's a really long, 2 part article about the take-down of The Silk Road, the deep web site where people bought and sold anything that wasn't legal. The relevant parts are that they used 2 servers- 1 in France, the other in Iceland. If you don't think the FBI can get jurisdiction in other countries, think again. They seized both servers, simultaneously. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 11 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said: http://thereviewboard.net Article about the shut down: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/online-site-where-men-rated-prostitutes-is-shut-down-charges-to-be-filed/ 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 11 minutes ago, pejo said: Article about the shut down: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/online-site-where-men-rated-prostitutes-is-shut-down-charges-to-be-filed/ It was a more complicated that just a website: Trafficking, Korean mafias, brothels and worst of all women in the business against their will!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Buddy Glass said: You should really read this. It's a really long, 2 part article about the take-down of The Silk Road, the deep web site where people bought and sold anything that wasn't legal. The relevant parts are that they used 2 servers- 1 in France, the other in Iceland. If you don't think the FBI can get jurisdiction in other countries, think again. They seized both servers, simultaneously. Ill have to read this. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buddy Glass said: You should really read this. It's a really long, 2 part article about the take-down of The Silk Road, the deep web site where people bought and sold anything that wasn't legal. The relevant parts are that they used 2 servers- 1 in France, the other in Iceland. If you don't think the FBI can get jurisdiction in other countries, think again. They seized both servers, simultaneously. Yes, they took down Silk Road. But consider the difference. Silk Road dealt in drugs, a practice scorned be almost all legitimate governments. The case involved a plethora of TLA agencies and international cooperation. Preferred411 deals with prostitution, a practice legal in much of the world, including the country where the servers reside. Should P411 slide into the shadier realms of trafficking, slavery, and ...(age)... then there will likely be the political will to take them down. But (so far) P411 has been rigorous in avoiding those illicit practices. Note that the King County WA bust focused on these illicit elements So, IMHO, P411 is a relatively safe bet. Besides, as others have said, there are ways to acquire P411 membership w/o revealing significant personal information. Edited January 8, 2016 by Bit Banger Spelling 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 This story is interesting and the reaction has been strange. The Review Board was mostly used by the upscale ladies in Seattle, it was a $500 an hour kind of site but it was also common knowledge to biz participants in the area that the owner(s) were complicit with trafficking. There was a fascinating thread on TNA but unfortunately it has been deleted. There is no doubt from TNA users it seems that TRB is guilty as charged. There is rumor that SWOP Seattle had a huge hand in bringing it down but backpedaled quickly when they realized they threatened the resources of the high end %1ers a few of whom are very prolific "activists". These ladies are very upset that their site is gone and have no interest in even considering the legitimacy of these claims. Denver SWOP didn't care at all about SoWet's seizure and neither did the activists because it was a site that wasn't considered to be high class. Like we do in so many other aspects of life, sexwork activism caters to the elite, see below. "“It (the shutdown) increases the odds a sex worker needing to make rent will take an unverified client,” Savannah Sly, president of the Sex Worker Outreach Project, wrote in an email." While there is some truth to this the Pacific North West is at no loss for other resources, TNA and Adult Hobby Board service Washington and have a fair amount of users. SWOP offers no immediate help to those who may be in need, there is a constant stream of marginalized sex workers that goes unnoticed. Even with all the resources there are many providers in that area who can't pay the rent. TRB was excusive and SWOP Seattle and Savannah Sly are defending its exclusivity on Twitter. Whose interests are they really protecting? That doesn't sound like a tweet from a group that claims to be an outreach program for all sex workers. TRB is guilty and members of SWOP Seattle were advertisers on that board. They lost their "high end" site and are upset. The well informed know that trafficking stats are inflated but the number of trafficking incidents is not zero. Seattle being where it is has an overwhelming number of Asian providers. One would be foolish to believe that %100 of them are actual citizens or here legitimately. SWOP and the other activists are using those often inflated stats to protect their site and their interests. It doesn't get much lower than that. To deny someone's fucked up reality to protect your playground is not the sign of an activist or a high class escort. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 P411 has already been infiltrated by the FBI and is clearly listed on the FBI website as being a "sex trafficking site." The site owners may very well be "off shore" but the 22 girls involved in the last sting operation were residents of CO. It's old news yes but relevant all the same. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 6 hours ago, Danielle Rae said: P411 has already been infiltrated by the FBI and is clearly listed on the FBI website as being a "sex trafficking site." The site owners may very well be "off shore" but the 22 girls involved in the last sting operation were residents of CO. It's old news yes but relevant all the same. P411 gets infiltrated by the FBI when providers decide to save there own ass and give the FBI oks, that is how 22 other girls busted. 7 hours ago, Bit Banger said: Yes, they took down Silk Road. But consider the difference. Silk Road dealt in drugs, a practice scorned be almost all legitimate governments. The case involved a plethora of TLA agencies and international cooperation. Preferred411 deals with prostitution, a practice legal in much of the world, including the country where the servers reside. Should P411 slide into the shadier realms of trafficking, slavery, and ...(age)... then there will likely be the political will to take them down. But (so far) P411 has been rigorous in avoiding those illicit practices. Note that the King County WA bust focused on these illicit elements So, IMHO, P411 is a relatively safe bet. Besides, as others have said, there are ways to acquire P411 membership w/o revealing significant personal information. I read this last night. I would have to agree with bit banger. If people would do research, ask around, follow the instructions that have been posted on this site and on other sites. They wouldn't have to worry about personal information. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, Danielle Rae said: P411 has already been infiltrated by the FBI and is clearly listed on the FBI website as being a "sex trafficking site." The site owners may very well be "off shore" but the 22 girls involved in the last sting operation were residents of CO. It's old news yes but relevant all the same. But were those 22 snared by capturing & hacking the servers or by using P411 in more traditional sting operations? From what I have heard, LE convinced one or more ladies to give them P411 OKs. They used these vetted accounts to book & bust other ladies in the area. While this threatens providers , it does not pose a danger to clients. As a client I do NOT have access to another client's profile, let alone any billing information. No, LE does not present a real threat to P411 clients. The danger is from illegal activity (hacking) from moralists or extortionist, as happened to Ashley Madison. But that danger exists if you conduct any business with computers; just ask the customers of Target, Home Depot, or the VA. EDIT: As for the 'sex trafficking site' label, that's part of their campaign to expand the definition and justify funding. Remember, every run-away teen is 'at risk', and therefore counted in trafficking statistics. A common tactic of advocate groups. Edited January 8, 2016 by Bit Banger Added remarks RE: trafficking 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 38 minutes ago, Bit Banger said: But were those 22 snared by capturing & hacking the servers or by using P411 in more traditional sting operations? From what I have heard, LE convinced one or more ladies to give them P411 OKs. They used these vetted accounts to book & bust other ladies in the area. While this threatens providers , it does not pose a danger to clients. As a client I do NOT have access to another client's profile, let alone any billing information. No, LE does not present a real threat to P411 clients. The danger is from illegal activity (hacking) from moralists or extortionist, as happened to Ashley Madison. But that danger exists if you conduct any business with computers; just ask the customers of Target, Home Depot, or the VA. EDIT: As for the 'sex trafficking site' label, that's part of their campaign to expand the definition and justify funding. Remember, every run-away teen is 'at risk', and therefore counted in trafficking statistics. A common tactic of advocate groups. What happened on P411 wasn't exclusive to P411. It was part of Operation Innocence Lost, when Colorado and a handful of other states took the funding from the FBI to cast a big a net as possible. Some find it easier to blame an individual than they do to really understand that ANY adult site like this has it's weaknesses. So yes it was a more traditional sting LE is a threat to whoever it wants to be threatening to. Don't be foolish. I am sure all the guys on TRB thought the same thing before they were shut down and same at Rentboy too, Redbook and Sowet as well. There comes a time when you can't play the stats are inflated card. Rentboy in NY was definitely guilty of trafficking and more than likely so is TRB. The pro-sex activists are playing the same card to defend their site. Rentboy didn't have their doors broken down by Homeland Security because they were fudging some numbers. Redbooks owner didn't lose everything because he was super innocent. Just because stats are inflated doesn't mean the number of problems is zero. Where there is an underworld there are insidious types ready to take advantage and exploit weaknesses. Deep, dark scary stuff that most don't want to consider or believe. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 AS a Provider who has worked and lived in the Portland area and familiar with TRB, I'm rather upset, so excuse my somewhat emotional, yet upset following Almost daily we have chest thumpers here and on various boards advocating doing the right thing. As a Provider, some board owners, especially those Private, by invitation only, password protected try to sway you to be a part as it's Safer, Clients are screened, etc, etc. Now here is an owner of one of these boards, being secretly recorded along with a few other members Knowing/speculating that these K - girls are Trafficked and instead of doing the right thing to Protect our Community, they instead contributed to the abuse. So now I'm sitting here mulling all this over and question, what would clients I've met have done, Would they publically say one thing yet do another? In all the years here, I can only recall one Hobbyist who reported suspected " not the majority age" and his actions saved Her. Im really questioning the integrity of those who participate in our Devilish ways and wondering if I have rose colored glasses on. Sorry, I'm still trying to process, rather upset yet I'm unable to find the correct words to voice my disdain without insult. I'm sure my thoughts and feelings will evolve as more information comes to light 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 Sites in "our" world are going to draw attention of the "authorities" depending on their level of participation. 1. Simple advertising. ( BP, P-411, et.al). Leo's know they are there, and are watching. Mostly for (forbidden topic). 2. Advertisers taking a percentage of a providers fee. And controlling the providers hours etc. This could be construed as trafficking and will draw a higher level of interest. 3. Drugs. This is a no no. It's hard for LEO's to make a case, as they have to physically make a "buy" to make an arrest. But they will make the effort, in hopes it will lead them up the chain to the "big supplier". CL gets away with this because they do not charge for advertising and have no control over what is posted. 4. Hiding, and not reporting, profits. This is the easiest and fastest way to get the FBI/IRS knocking on your door. Most, if not all of the research can be done online, and is admissible in court. I may be wrong, but didn't the initial reports on the "my red book" story say that the owners/operators were hiding money from the IRS? Scarlett and Bit have the right idea. Protect your personal information like a mother bear guards her cubs. Just some random thoughts of an OF. Signature 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 39 minutes ago, Heidi the Housewife aka The Maui Muse said: AS a Provider who has worked and lived in the Portland area and familiar with TRB, I'm rather upset, so excuse my somewhat emotional, yet upset following Almost daily we have chest thumpers here and on various boards advocating doing the right thing. As a Provider, some board owners, especially those Private, by invitation only, password protected try to sway you to be a part as it's Safer, Clients are screened, etc, etc. Now here is an owner of one of these boards, being secretly recorded along with a few other members Knowing/speculating that these K - girls are Trafficked and instead of doing the right thing to Protect our Community, they instead contributed to the abuse. So now I'm sitting here mulling all this over and question, what would clients I've met have done, Would they publically say one thing yet do another? In all the years here, I can only recall one Hobbyist who reported suspected " not the majority age" and his actions saved Her. Im really questioning the integrity of those who participate in our Devilish ways and wondering if I have rose colored glasses on. Sorry, I'm still trying to process, rather upset yet I'm unable to find the correct words to voice my disdain without insult. I'm sure my thoughts and feelings will evolve as more information comes to light Heidi, Soul-searching, substantive, adult posts on serious topics is one of the main reasons I am here. And, so I thank you for your post. One of the things I promised myself when I started was "do no harm." When starting out, I can remember asking ladies some very personal questions, because I wanted to get a feel for their situation. If I found out a lady had been forced to be with me, I don't know how I would react. But if I could do something about it, I would. You are right to constantly check the color of your glasses, but like the world at large, I have found our little world to be full of angels and assholes. Some providers and clients I've met would happily give you the shirt off their backs. Others would just as quickly stab you in yours. Integrity, and/or the lack thereof, will exist in any business arena regardless of the perceived or real underlying morality of the business itself. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 22 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said: P411 is off shore. They are based out of another country. I wouldn't waste your time worrying about them. They have alternative payment methods. If you have hobby email, hobby phone, two legit references your personal info wouldn't even on there site. All you have to do is learn how to protect your personal information. Once again, sage advice from Miss Nikki..take heed everyone... Edited January 8, 2016 by bd5671 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 18 hours ago, Buddy Glass said: You should really read this. It's a really long, 2 part article about the take-down of The Silk Road, the deep web site where people bought and sold anything that wasn't legal. The relevant parts are that they used 2 servers- 1 in France, the other in Iceland. If you don't think the FBI can get jurisdiction in other countries, think again. They seized both servers, simultaneously. Ahhh the 'ol Dark Net. The idiot from Silk Road got taken down because he gave his real information (dumb ass lol) to people working on his computers that needed repairs. If you're doing something that illegal it's probably best to trust no one lol. That's how the FBI finally found out who this guy was. Then it was easy to take him down. If the FBI can take down a site on the dark net, then they can do just about anything they damn well want lol! Here's the crazy thing about the dark net... it compromises 94% of the entire internet (freaking scary). The internet we know (buying stuff on Amazon, google searching, youtube, etc) make up only 6% of the internet. The other 94% is used for evil (1st four levels) and by the government (level 5). 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said: P411 gets infiltrated by the FBI when providers decide to save there own ass and give the FBI oks, that is how 22 other girls busted. I read this last night. I would have to agree with bit banger. If people would do research, ask around, follow the instructions that have been posted on this site and on other sites. They wouldn't have to worry about personal information. Yes exactly! It is those who would rather save their own ass in order to keep from anything going public that will gladly turn their accounts over the LE to avoid getting in trouble. People will throw you under the bus faster than they can blink an eye, and as a provider do NOT ever forget that for one second. I'm not saying men aren't trustworthy. I'm just saying men will do almost anything to not have their wives found out about their hidden secrets. Seems so instinctual like a mother bear with her baby cubs. Nothing personal, but they'll do anything to protect them. I have heard so many crazy stories from both men doing this to providers as well as a few providers setting up another provider. That is complete lunacy! If you get in trouble then take your punishment like a man. Shut the heck up, hire a lawyer and let them work out all the details. Do not say anything to anyone... other than your attorney. The worst thing anyone can do is let fear be their guiding light. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Heidi the Housewife aka The Maui Muse said: AS a Provider who has worked and lived in the Portland area and familiar with TRB, I'm rather upset, so excuse my somewhat emotional, yet upset following Almost daily we have chest thumpers here and on various boards advocating doing the right thing. As a Provider, some board owners, especially those Private, by invitation only, password protected try to sway you to be a part as it's Safer, Clients are screened, etc, etc. Now here is an owner of one of these boards, being secretly recorded along with a few other members Knowing/speculating that these K - girls are Trafficked and instead of doing the right thing to Protect our Community, they instead contributed to the abuse. So now I'm sitting here mulling all this over and question, what would clients I've met have done, Would they publically say one thing yet do another? In all the years here, I can only recall one Hobbyist who reported suspected " not the majority age" and his actions saved Her. Im really questioning the integrity of those who participate in our Devilish ways and wondering if I have rose colored glasses on. Sorry, I'm still trying to process, rather upset yet I'm unable to find the correct words to voice my disdain without insult. I'm sure my thoughts and feelings will evolve as more information comes to light Yes, but that let's me know you are one of the Good ones. The hobby world is actually very very dark and disgusting. Things go on that most are unaware. Sadly evil is a part of all areas of this world. However it seems like the sex industry has some of the darkest of evil taking place. Sex sells, and there are those who plan to make bank on it no matter who it hurts or destroys in the process. I don't want to ruin your day, or have you pondering on this subject too much. There does need to be a light of awareness surrounding human trafficking and underage prostitution. This stuff is extremely real, it's definitely out of control and it happens every minute of every day in every part of the world. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 9 hours ago, Nikki Holiday said: P411 gets infiltrated by the FBI when providers decide to save there own ass and give the FBI oks, that is how 22 other girls busted. I read this last night. I would have to agree with bit banger. If people would do research, ask around, follow the instructions that have been posted on this site and on other sites. They wouldn't have to worry about personal information. Yeah. The point of it is not to trust them with personal info just because the server is in another county. If the FBI wants it, they'll get it. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 55 minutes ago, Scarlett Dayne said: Ahhh the 'ol Dark Net. The idiot from Silk Road got taken down because he gave his real information (dumb ass lol) to people working on his computers that needed repairs. If you're doing something that illegal it's probably best to trust no one lol. That's how the FBI finally found out who this guy was. Then it was easy to take him down. If the FBI can take down a site on the dark net, then they can do just about anything they damn well want lol! Here's the crazy thing about the dark net... it compromises 94% of the entire internet (freaking scary). The internet we know (buying stuff on Amazon, google searching, youtube, etc) make up only 6% of the internet. The other 94% is used for evil (1st four levels) and by the government (level 5). The point was less about taking down DPR and more about how they took the servers. Buyers had to send addresses to sellers, and that went on the server. Most people encrypted their PMs, but not everyone. Any personal info on anyone using that site back then is in the hands of the feds now. I keep seeing it thrown around here that P411 is untouchable because it's in Canada, and that's totally untrue. I love P411, and I'm a member, but info is only as safe as the server, and they're almost never out of the reach of the FBI. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 38 minutes ago, Scarlett Dayne said: Yes, but that let's me know you are one of the Good ones. The hobby world is actually very very dark and disgusting. Things go on that most are unaware. Sadly evil is a part of all areas of this world. However it seems like the sex industry has some of the darkest of evil taking place. Sex sells, and there are those who plan to make bank on it no matter who it hurts or destroys in the process. I don't want to ruin your day, or have you pondering on this subject too much. There does need to be a light of awareness surrounding human trafficking and underage prostitution. This stuff is extremely real, it's definitely out of control and it happens every minute of every day in every part of the world. You mean like stop to think before booking with "18 year old" "independent" travelling ladies off BP. Good place to start. Wait ...... OK, helmet on ..... commence rock throwing. If all that participate in this "hobby" and call it that would quit the denial biz and quit acting horrified to think any of this actually goes on would help a lot. Don't get me wrong, I am all in with voluntary adult participation and believe it should be 100% legal and open. But those busted for coercion, forcing ladies -even of legal age - into the biz, and ANY involvement of underage deserve anything bad they get. Hung by genitalia in public square would be good start. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Johnboy#1 said: Sites in "our" world are going to draw attention of the "authorities" depending on their level of participation. 1. Simple advertising. ( BP, P-411, et.al). Leo's know they are there, and are watching. Mostly for (forbidden topic). 2. Advertisers taking a percentage of a providers fee. And controlling the providers hours etc. This could be construed as trafficking and will draw a higher level of interest. 3. Drugs. This is a no no. It's hard for LEO's to make a case, as they have to physically make a "buy" to make an arrest. But they will make the effort, in hopes it will lead them up the chain to the "big supplier". CL gets away with this because they do not charge for advertising and have no control over what is posted. 4. Hiding, and not reporting, profits. This is the easiest and fastest way to get the FBI/IRS knocking on your door. Most, if not all of the research can be done online, and is admissible in court. I may be wrong, but didn't the initial reports on the "my red book" story say that the owners/operators were hiding money from the IRS? Scarlett and Bit have the right idea. Protect your personal information like a mother bear guards her cubs. Just some random thoughts of an OF. Signature Initial reports on Redbook yes but there was more to the story there always is. Even if site owners are directly guilty they're not unaware of what goes on. This isn't just about protecting an identity it's about being way more aware of the surroundings. This is about sites totally lacking in integrity. Sites that are complicit in very illegal behavior. Everyone who used TRB was aware of what was going and they all turned the other cheek. So it's less about protecting yourself and more about keeping informed so the whole community can be protected. Adult oriented sites are all the same, there are none that are any less suspicious to authorities than any other. All a site needs to do to be suspicious is advertise and charge for it. With the number of biz sites that have stayed up for many years with little to no interference means something. The sites that are being seized are being shut down for serious reasons. The Feds have the ability to shut it all down just because they feel like it but they don't. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 We get a slippery slope here with "coercion". Is it coercion if you book with a YL who needs to pay her bills, or if there is an agent/madam/pimp behind them? Some feminist claim that any woman who is engaged in prostitution has been coerced, no exceptions. I don't deny that trafficking or underage providers exist. But how much? Nobody really knows. As the YL here on TOB illustrate, it isn't 100%. I just don't like having the rest of the trade lumped into the evil category. One of the reasons The Netherlands legalized prostitution is that it takes the 'legitimate' portion of the trade out of the shadows, out of control of the underground, and reduces demand for the seamier practitioners. This is also the rationale for the recent change in Amnesty International's position. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 8, 2016 29 minutes ago, Bit Banger said: We get a slippery slope here with "coercion". Is it coercion if you book with a YL who needs to pay her bills, or if there is an agent/madam/pimp behind them? Some feminist claim that any woman who is engaged in prostitution has been coerced, no exceptions. I don't deny that trafficking or underage providers exist. But how much? Nobody really knows. As the YL here on TOB illustrate, it isn't 100%. I just don't like having the rest of the trade lumped into the evil category. One of the reasons The Netherlands legalized prostitution is that it takes the 'legitimate' portion of the trade out of the shadows, out of control of the underground, and reduces demand for the seamier practitioners. This is also the rationale for the recent change in Amnesty International's position. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coerce No "slippery slope". The meaning is clear, as was my intent. And the answer to your straw man question about bills is "no". But the answer to pimp portion is "yes, very likely" and see number 6: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/denial 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
