Bit Banger

JoDoe's questions (to avoid thread drift)

57 posts in this topic

In the "How many times ..."  JoDoe raised a few questions. Rather than drift that thread, I've started this thread to answer them. 

 

Quote

 

So I guess my question(s) for those in here saying they still love their significant others, but decide to participate in this world would be...

1.) Does your significant other know what you're doing? ...

2.) How would you feel if by chance you found out your significant other participated in the hobby? ... Would you be ok with that?

3.) Do you pick ladies reminding you of your significant other?

 

 

1) She believed that I was having an affair. On more than one occasion she told me to go get laid. But she did not know details because she bought into the "dirty, dangerous hookers" hype. 

2) My 1st wife & I swapped on a few occasions. Not a problem on my part. Sex != Love (Divorce was caused by issues other than sex.) My only issue would be scheduling, same as any job.  She may be at work when I want to share other activities (travel, shows, life...) with her. Escorting, like any free lance work, would have the advantage of her having more control over her own schedule. It is important to me that she have a sense of her own money.

3) No, I pick a wide variety of ladies to visit. Many had physical characteristics very different from my wife. 

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1) No, she does not. 

2) If I found out that my wife was having sex with other men, I would be overjoyed. Why? Because it would mean that she had her sex drive back. I would ask to watch or participate. I have asked her: Do you want other men? She laughs at this and says that if Brad Pitt himself showed up, she would not be in the mood. I asked her if she wanted other women, and she only laughed harder. She only wants me -- about four times a year. I will say that when she wants it, she is HOT and sweet and wonderful, and I always think: Why not do this  once a week or once very two weeks, or even once a month?

3) No. I have never thought about the similarity in looks. I find a LOT of women attractive. I have been with a TOTAL of six women in this hobby, for a total of seven sessions (seeing one twice), and that's over four or five years. I don't do this very often. However, I have done a LOT of FBSM, but you didn't ask all that. I think my infrequency (for FS) is one of the reasons that she has not found out -- that and I am extremely careful. I don't want to hurt her -- ever. 

Edited by pitbull
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1 hour ago, pitbull said:

1) No, she does not. 

2) If I found out that my wife was having sex with other men, I would be overjoyed. Why? Because it would mean that she had her sex drive back. I would ask to watch or participate. I have asked her: Do you want other men? She laughs at this and says that if Brad Pitt himself showed up, she would not be in the mood. I asked her if she wanted other women, and she only laughed harder. She only wants me -- about four times a year. I will say that when she wants it, she is HOT and sweet and wonderful, and I always think: Why not do this  once a week or once very two weeks, or even once a month?

3) No. I have never thought about the similarity in looks. I find a LOT of women attractive. I have been with a TOTAL of six women in this hobby, for a total of seven sessions (seeing one twice), and that's over four or five years. I don't do this very often. However, I have done a LOT of FBSM, but you didn't ask all that. I think my infrequency (for FS) is one of the reasons that she has not found out -- that and I am extremely careful. I don't want to hurt her -- ever. 

So for third you say you don't want to hurt her...then why do it? I'm not looking to have anyone justify their reasons for anything but if the argument is marriage is so much more than simply sex yet extramarital affairs occur isn't that telling?

Of let me ask it this way; what would happy if they were to find out? And if they did would you stop?

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I can't speak for pitbull, but for me the lack of sex made me cranky, angry at the world. This in turn threatened to tear our marriage apart. We had a tacit Dont't Ask - Don't Tell agreement and fidelity was not a part of our marriage vows. Sex was already on the rocks, but still existed quarterly, when we got married 10 years into a 25 year relationship. The total lack of sex started about 3 years later. 

Edited by Bit Banger
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44 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

So for third you say you don't want to hurt her...then why do it? I'm not looking to have anyone justify their reasons for anything but if the argument is marriage is so much more than simply sex yet extramarital affairs occur isn't that telling?

Of let me ask it this way; what would happy if they were to find out? And if they did would you stop?

Well, two-post JoDoe, if you must ask: Why do it? You will never know.  I will assume that you are young, have not been in a 24-year relationship with all kinds of history—profound history. I'll assume you have no progeny that you  adore and for which you would readily lay down your life. Why would I throw all this away with an immensely painful divorce? I don't mean financial pain, I mean emotional pain. Sex is important, but it's also not important. It can be profound, and it can be a trifle. I can't find anything else wrong with my marriage other than the frequency of sex. Unlike some guys, I get it with my wife on a quarterly basis. Some don't get that. 

You use the word "extramarital affairs" but seeing prostitutes is specifically designed to avoid affairs. I have no interest in "falling in love" with anyone, or having anyone fall in love with me.  Do I want to go without sex for the foreseeable future? No. And with sex comes the affection and/or play acting  "affection" that the ladies provide.  My wife would not be happy if she found out, but she won't find out. People who say, "They always find out or will eventually find out" are simply incorrect. 

It is really hard for some people to grasp that yes, I (we on this board) can occasionally have sex with a prostitute and have ZERO consequences -- no LE, no emotions run wild, no diseases, and nobody gets hurt.  Of course, nothing is full proof. She COULD find out, however unlikely, but it is worth the risk. The chance and prospect of sex, something most of us really need, is worth the risk. 

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11 minutes ago, pitbull said:

...

You use the word "extramarital affairs" but seeing prostitutes is specifically designed to avoid affairs. I have no interest in "falling in love" with anyone, or having anyone fall in love with me.  ...

^^. THIS!  ^^

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22 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Well, two-post JoDoe, if you must ask: Why do it? You will never know.  I will assume that you are young, have not been in a 24-year relationship with all kinds of history—. ...

Have you considered that Jo may be a righteous troll, or that he truly doesn't understand the dynamics of LTRs?

In either case, PB, know that you are NOT alone.

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33 minutes ago, pitbull said:

Well, two-post JoDoe, if you must ask: Why do it? You will never know.  I will assume that you are young, have not been in a 24-year relationship with all kinds of history—profound history. I'll assume you have no progeny that you  adore and for which you would readily lay down your life. Why would I throw all this away with an immensely painful divorce? I don't mean financial pain, I mean emotional pain. Sex is important, but it's also not important. It can be profound, and it can be a trifle. I can't find anything else wrong with my marriage other than the frequency of sex. Unlike some guys, I get it with my wife on a quarterly basis. Some don't get that. 

You use the word "extramarital affairs" but seeing prostitutes is specifically designed to avoid affairs. I have no interest in "falling in love" with anyone, or having anyone fall in love with me.  Do I want to go without sex for the foreseeable future? No. And with sex comes the affection and/or play acting  "affection" that the ladies provide.  My wife would not be happy if she found out, but she won't find out. People who say, "They always find out or will eventually find out" are simply incorrect. 

It is really hard for some people to grasp that yes, I (we on this board) can occasio

5 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Have you considered that Jo may be a righteous troll, or that he truly doesn't understand the dynamics of LTRs?

In either case, PB, know that you are NOT alone.

nally have sex with a prostitute and have ZERO consequences -- no LE, no emotions run wild, no diseases, and nobody gets hurt.  Of course, nothing is full proof. She COULD find out, however unlikely, but it is worth the risk. The chance and prospect of sex, something most of us really need, is worth the risk. 

*my phone is misbehaving so apologies for this jacked up post...

1.) my total number of posts has little, as in nothing, to do with my knowledge of relationships. 

2.) nor am I troll because I dislike delusion.

3.) an affair is technically a secret sexual relationship between individuals. Love and emotion has nothing to do with it. 

4.) I just find it interesting how no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Prettt much anything I say will viewed as a personal attack which, oh well, but I guess if you're doing something that your partner will disapprove of or hurt them immensely then maybe your actions are self served as a whole. You can say you're doing it to save your marriage but you're effectively taking that choice away from your partner and it's not fair to hide your actions behind this notion. I feel, and it's only my opinion, that if you felt so strong about your wife then why hide this? And you don't have to answer that question. 

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37 minutes ago, Bit Banger said:

Have you considered that Jo may be a righteous troll, or that he truly doesn't understand the dynamics of LTRs?

In either case, PB, know that you are NOT alone.

Thank you, Bit.  Your support means a great deal in a lonely world that condemns a man's need for affection.  And yes, I don't believe JoDoe is a hobbyist or one who understands LTRs. He's probably doing a paper on "Johns" and needs some grist for the mill. I suspect this board will provide plenty. 

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It is easy, and a symptom of bigotry, to sit back in your comfortable armchair and make critical comments about other people's choices. Never criticize a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins. We all have our reasons for doing this.  I suspect you are simply unable to understand the feelings you have when this critical part of a relationship dies.  You go through the phases of grief: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally, acceptance.  Some enter the acceptance phase by ending the relationship, or worse, killing off a vital part of themselves.  Others, attempt to preserve what is left of the good parts of the relationship by seeking that one little thing somewhere else. Regardless of which path a person chooses, they are all sad, and a little painful.  

The ladies who provide these services are angels of mercy. Many of them worry about what is left of your relationship, too.  If you can find the right ladies, they provide that one little thing with kindness, dignity, and caring.....and no strings.  I am thankful for them.

 

 

 

Well I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for music, do you?
Well it goes like this:
The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall and the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

Well your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew ya
She tied you to her kitchen chair
And she broke your throne and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

But baby I've been here before
I've seen this room and I've walked this floor
You know, I used to live alone before I knew ya
And I've seen your flag on the marble arch
And love is not a victory march
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

Well there was a time when you let me know
What's really going on below
But now you never show that to me do ya
But remember when I moved in you
And the holy dove was moving too
And every breath we drew was Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

Maybe there's a God above
But all I've ever learned from love
Was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya

And it's not a cry that you hear at night
It's not somebody who's seen the light
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah

Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah

 

 

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24 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

*my phone is misbehaving so apologies for this jacked up post...

1.) my total number of posts has little, as in nothing, to do with my knowledge of relationships. 

2.) nor am I troll because I dislike delusion.

3.) an affair is technically a secret sexual relationship between individuals. Love and emotion has nothing to do with it. 

4.) I just find it interesting how no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Prettt much anything I say will viewed as a personal attack which, oh well, but I guess if you're doing something that your partner will disapprove of or hurt them immensely then maybe your actions are self served as a whole. You can say you're doing it to save your marriage but you're effectively taking that choice away from your partner and it's not fair to hide your actions behind this notion. I feel, and it's only my opinion, that if you felt so strong about your wife then why hide this? And you don't have to answer that question. 

You may want to look up "straw man fallacy" by the way.  Anyway, feel free to think whatever you want about me or anyone on this board. That's fine. I hope you got enough for your research paper.  

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We (my wife & I) talked endlessly about the lack of sex, lack of desire on her part, hurting our relationship. We tried many remedies, some prescription, some not, to correct the situation - to no avail. 

I believe she "knew" I was getting sex outside the marriage, but we didn't talk about it directly. Why rub her face in it? Removing sexual tension definitely improved our relationship.

Would our marriage have ended if I'd been caught? I doubt it. She thought women who kicked hubby to the curb when he had a mid-life affair were stupid. Her advice was wait - when he's finished sowing his oats, he'll come home to mama. If on the other hand a wife gets all huffy & rips his balls off, throws them both in the poor house, and stomps on his relationships with their progeny, then everybody gets hurt. Why do that?

If you understand relationships so well, then you should realize that strangers (one post wonders) asking  these personal questions are looked upon with skepticism. A 'holier than thou' attitude adds to the friction. Please note that we veterans tried to answer you with honesty. 

Edited by Bit Banger
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To Laplace and Bit: Very well said.  I love the "Angels of Mercy" moniker given to the ladies. And yes, the sex, in the grand scheme of things, can be "one little thing." When it's taken care of, tension in the relationship can really ease up. Strangely enough, that lack of tension can often rekindle the REAL relationship, as it has in fits and starts. I have hope that we will regain the passionate side of our marriage. I have worked so so hard to make that happen -- perhaps someday it will. That is my ardent hope. 

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Two post JoDoe, both Pitbull and Bit have written eloquent explanations of why they hobby.  You have your mind made up so no need to  confuse you with the facts.  Food, shelter, water, and sex are 4 essential elements for man to exist.  This according to a recent National Geographic program on sex.  Either of these 2 gentleman could have and affair but they chose not to.  They cared enough about their SO not to have an affair.  But they still need sex.  You equate sex as an affair.  The two are very different.  Men need sex.  Bit did not want to rub in his wife's face the fact that he was getting what he was missing in his marriage from someone else.  Sex makes me feel happy. It makes me feel good.  I need it.  I get cranky and pissed off when I do not get sex.  Pit has been open more about his personal life  and why he is here than anyone since I have been on TOB.  More than 1 person has commented his home life is just like Pit.  By reading this, perhaps someone lurking will quit walking around pissed off because he is not getting what he needs at home and know he has options.

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24 minutes ago, inkspot said:

Two post JoDoe, both Pitbull and Bit have written eloquent explanations of why they hobby.  You have your mind made up so no need to  confuse you with the facts.  Food, shelter, water, and sex are 4 essential elements for man to exist.  This according to a recent National Geographic program on sex.  Either of these 2 gentleman could have and affair but they chose not to.  They cared enough about their SO not to have an affair.  But they still need sex.  You equate sex as an affair.  The two are very different.  Men need sex.  Bit did not want to rub in his wife's face the fact that he was getting what he was missing in his marriage from someone else.  Sex makes me feel happy. It makes me feel good.  I need it.  I get cranky and pissed off when I do not get sex.  Pit has been open more about his personal life  and why he is here than anyone since I have been on TOB.  More than 1 person has commented his home life is just like Pit.  By reading this, perhaps someone lurking will quit walking around pissed off because he is not getting what he needs at home and know he has options.

Thanks, Ink.  So many of us are in the same boat -- some longer than others and some with more severe ebbs and flows. The situations are never quite the same, but it comes down to the fact that we want to keep the boat afloat. Some of us end the marriage, some don't, and some marriages go up and down. There are so many scenarios out there, and we all admit that the scenario that brings us to the subculture is not ideal.  If things were as they should be, we would not be here. 

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3 hours ago, pitbull said:

Well, two-post JoDoe, if you must ask: Why do it? You will never know.  I will assume that you are young, have not been in a 24-year relationship with all kinds of history—profound history. I'll assume you have no progeny that you  adore and for which you would readily lay down your life. Why would I throw all this away with an immensely painful divorce? I don't mean financial pain, I mean emotional pain. Sex is important, but it's also not important. It can be profound, and it can be a trifle. I can't find anything else wrong with my marriage other than the frequency of sex. Unlike some guys, I get it with my wife on a quarterly basis. Some don't get that.

You use the word "extramarital affairs" but seeing prostitutes is specifically designed to avoid affairs. I have no interest in "falling in love" with anyone, or having anyone fall in love with me.  Do I want to go without sex for the foreseeable future? No. And with sex comes the affection and/or play acting  "affection" that the ladies provide.  My wife would not be happy if she found out, but she won't find out. People who say, "They always find out or will eventually find out" are simply incorrect.

It is really hard for some people to grasp that yes, I (we on this board) can occasionally have sex with a prostitute and have ZERO consequences -- no LE, no emotions run wild, no diseases, and nobody gets hurt.  Of course, nothing is full proof. She COULD find out, however unlikely, but it is worth the risk. The chance and prospect of sex, something most of us really need, is worth the risk.

You hit on the head. Ink and Pitt..

All you noobes and the nay sayers, the ones that "don't get why all the cheeting is going on"

READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always Pitt is way ahead of the curve for most of us men that can't articulate as well as he.

Well said, my friend! Thank you for being honest and accurate.

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10 hours ago, JoDoe27 said:

*my phone is misbehaving so apologies for this jacked up post...

1.) my total number of posts has little, as in nothing, to do with my knowledge of relationships. 

2.) nor am I troll because I dislike delusion.

3.) an affair is technically a secret sexual relationship between individuals. Love and emotion has nothing to do with it. 

4.) I just find it interesting how no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Prettt much anything I say will viewed as a personal attack which, oh well, but I guess if you're doing something that your partner will disapprove of or hurt them immensely then maybe your actions are self served as a whole. You can say you're doing it to save your marriage but you're effectively taking that choice away from your partner and it's not fair to hide your actions behind this notion. I feel, and it's only my opinion, that if you felt so strong about your wife then why hide this? And you don't have to answer that question. 

I still struggle with this topic, although I have grown to be much more understanding of it over the years.   The sexual part of the "cheating" is not so much the issue that stings for me , it's the dishonesty - the lies - the lengths one goes to cover his tracks.  That is the part that for me would bring the most pain.  And I think it is the problem society created many moons ago with the "one man-one woman til death do us part" notion which is what we all grow up to believe is the definition of 'love'.  

Speaking for myself only, marriage is teamwork.  The person I choose to share my life with is going to be so much more than my husband - he will be my very best friend.  Someone I can trust with my deepest secrets, my insecurities, my hopes, my dreams, my heart and soul.  Respect goes both ways.   If there came a time that I no longer had the sex-drive or desire to try and fix whatever was causing that, then it would only be fair for me to understand that my husband would seek to fill that void elsewhere.  If I knew that him having sex with another person didn't change his love for me.  If I knew that his having sex with another person, wasn't due to the fact that I wasn't good enough, or pretty enough, or special enough - I believe I could learn to  accept this.  I would much rather we discuss the issue as a couple rather than be continuously lied to and deceived.   The deception is the part that hurts the most.  IMO   But again, I do not judge and I am speaking only for myself.  

This is such a tough subject and I wish society didn't paint it so black and white.  Men and women are wired differently and I think the sooner society accepts that and couples communicate rather than simply try to conforrm to the unrealistic expectations of monogamy - the healthier and happier we will all be. 

Edited by Danielle Rae
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Danielle, as you say, the deception was the part that bothered me. She understood that I needed more (some?) sex, but bought into the stigma associated with the pay-4-play world. She seemed to favor the more risky, and more costly, possibility of an affair(*).  So I took the easy way out; I lied. Eventually we just dropped the subject. My choices were: dissolve the partnership, rage at her not holding up her end, or cheat to fill the void in an otherwise good relationship. I chose to keep my friend as part of my life, and to not inflict her with more pain. 

(*) "Risky" because of the potential for an emotional entanglement which would strain our marriage bonds. "Costly" both in time and in $s. Both "risky" and "costly" because a person needs to establish a relationship for an affair or spend a good deal of time hanging out in 'the right places' to find someone else interested in casual sex.  The no-strings-attached sex of the ASP world are far less threat to one's marriage than that lunch hour affair with a co-worker or with that gal you met in the bar after work.  If you want BSC, watch 'Fatal Attraction'.

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1 hour ago, Danielle Rae said:

This is such a tough subject and I wish society didn't paint it so black and white.  Men and women are wired differently and I think the sooner society accepts that and couples communicate rather than simply try to conforrm to the unrealistic expectations of monogamy - the healthier and happier we will all be. 

Amen sister!!!  However, in my mind it is the whole sexual repression thing we have going on in our lovely prudish country.  If we could move passed that, I am sure we would be working in the right direction.  Free the nipple for a start!  Geez!  My nipples have been free since I was born.  As men age their man bumps can often start to reach the range of a mid-cup, yet their nipples remain free.  Decriminalize the hobby for the love of "insert favorite omnipotent being here"!

There are far fewer sexual hang-ups in the countries of Europe than we have here at home.

Edited by Riggo
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10 hours ago, gettin' up there-2233 said:

So, JoDoe27, are you male or female?

Just my spidey senses tingling here, but I am feeling a spouse burned by the hobby on a crusade for understanding.

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10 hours ago, sparkey600 said:

You hit on the head. Ink and Pitt..

All you noobes and the nay sayers, the ones that "don't get why all the cheeting is going on"

READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As always Pitt is way ahead of the curve for most of us men that can't articulate as well as he.

Well said, my friend! Thank you for being honest and accurate.

Well thanks, Sparkey.  The board is therapeutic for me, and no doubt others. If I would have read this board 10 years ago, it would have been through very different eyes indeed. We should all remember that society views this hobby as disgusting, illegal, immoral, and largely unthinkable. Right or wrong, that is a fact. Never mind that this is mostly a victimless crime. I don't blame JoDoe for her lack of understanding. It's taken me a LONG time to understand it myself. 

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2 hours ago, Danielle Rae said:

Men and women are wired differently ...

JoDoe-   Good post.  I'm married to a (sexier) Mother Teresa type -  she's warm, kind, considerate, and the chance that she's cheated on me is just about zero. If she did cheat on me, I'd feel devastated.  In return I've cheated on her more times than I can count.  I've had affairs with my (college-aged) students, I've had Craigslist flings with non-pro types back in the San Francisco, backpage escorts, and more recently a dancer that has morphed into a SB arrangement.  I do tend to pick petite brunettes who look something like my wife.

Deep down I feel a sense of guilt.  Some men like me cheat because they can -- and it's not much more complicated than that.  I think my only justification is that men and women are wired differently.  Men are capable of cheating without forming any sort of emotional bond with a sex partner; in contrast, when women cheat on their spouse, it's much more likely to be for emotional needs, and the marriage is therefore over.

Edited by RichardF
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1 hour ago, RichardF said:

Some men like me cheat because they can -- and it's not much more complicated than that.  

This is the short version for me, too - but it is more complicated.

I posted in another thread about "The Truth" by Neil Strauss. His journey of self-discovery around his non-monogamy comes to a particular set of conclusions that have made me re-think my own "cheating". That coupled with my recent forays into SD/SB have opened new perspectives for me about my behavior. 

I crave the attention I get when I please women. So why isn't enough that my SO thinks the world of me?

Answers: #1:no, #2:no, #3:generally NO although I have a certain "type" that I like the most.

Edited by MrFister
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42 minutes ago, MrFister said:

I crave the attention I get when I please women.

Ah yes, I too used to suffer from this same condition. But let me assure there is hope. It will, over time subside and eventually pass. Takes about 60 years based on my experience. But once you accept that it's impossible, it's quite liberating!

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There's this whole thing about me not understanding and on one hand you're right. I don't pretend to know what anyone of you are going through and what made you decide to seek companionship outside of WHAT YOU HAVE EXPLICITLY stated in the board and various threads. I've been around long enough and lurked long enough to see a very common trend so I thought I'd ask. 

Do not presume to know me. I'm a man. And I say that with as much conviction as possible. There was a thread that popped up about what it took to be a man and for me part of it is owning up to my shit. Not hiding behind lies and half truths to make it all better in my own head and try to convince others. Shit goes wrong and you suck it up and hold steady. And when it hits a point have tough conversations that aren't exactly anyone's idea of fun but that's part of being an adult. Also, treating my partner with enough respect to not do things behind their back they'd not like or would tear them apart.  Danielle said it best about the lies and cheating and secrecy and goes back to what I said about the delusion. I'm not some angry jilted lover by any means. I don't necessarily believe we should all be with a single person for the rest of our lives because that's just not how I feel; however, I would and have had that conversation with potential partners. 

I will say I'm sorry to those that can't get everything they need from their spouse because I don't think any go into a relationship already looking to step out. I just asked some very pointed questions with the personal and intimate information everyone so openly expressed. So do not take your anger and frustration out on me.  If you have questions then ask. Do not presume. 

Finally I appreciate the honesty those in here. 

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it's the dishonesty - the lies - the lengths one goes to cover his tracks.  

Speaking for myself only, marriage is teamwork.  The person I choose to share my life with is going to be so much more than my husband - he will be my very best friend.  Someone I can trust with my deepest secrets, my insecurities, my hopes, my dreams, my heart and soul.  Respect goes both ways.   If there came a time that I no longer had the sex-drive or desire to try and fix whatever was causing that, then it would only be fair for me to understand that my husband would seek to fill that void elsewhere.  If I knew that him having sex with another person didn't change his love for me.  If I knew that his having sex with another person, wasn't due to the fact that I wasn't good enough, or pretty enough, or special enough - I believe I could learn to accept this.  I would much rather we discuss the issue as a couple rather than be continuously lied to and deceived. The deception is the part that hurts the most.  IMO   But again, I do not judge and I am speaking only for myself.  

In all honesty, I feel the same way as Danielle Rae. Its all about honesty. I also agree with Bit Pit Ink. The thing is, escorts are paid to go away. There only being used for sexual pleasure. When your SO has a girlfriend on the side, that makes a HUGE difference. 

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3 hours ago, JoDoe27 said:

There was a thread that popped up about what it took to be a man and for me part of it is owning up to my shit. Not hiding behind lies and half truths to make it all better in my own head and try to convince others. Shit goes wrong and you suck it up and hold steady. And when it hits a point have tough conversations that aren't exactly anyone's idea of fun but that's part of being an adult. Also, treating my partner with enough respect to not do things behind their back they'd not like or would tear them apart.

Just want to make something very clear.  My SO is my best friend.  Has been for 25 years and will continue to be.  We do everything together, with one obvious exception and that is why I am here.  We've had all the conversations, tried all the outside aids, but she just doesn't have a drive any longer.  It happens.  

Now for the part of stepping up and being a man.  That's a little judgmental, if you haven't walked in the shoes of people in my situation or any of the other great guys on this board, don't judge.  It would absolutely destroy her and end our wonderful friendship and I am not into breaking hearts.  Some are, and good for them.  I tend to want to protect my friends (all of them) from being hurt.

The comment about men and women being different is just a part of the correct answer.  Which is, we are All different, each of us is a unique individual in our own unique situation.  We all have our own little quirks, situations, personalities and that is what makes us all different and wonderful!

To the ladies.  It would make your lives pretty simple if the guys all told the truth.  Then you could just see clients who are single and then you wouldn't have to face any moral dilemma.  I personally have told the truth to each lady that asked me the if I was married.  If you have a problem seeing married men, I don't want to deceive you and have you do something you would rather not, so just ask.

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@Riggo

(My phone doesn't like direct quoting so I'm @ you on this.)

i find it interesting you say I'm judgmental when the comments, including yours, aimed at me have been exactly that. I asked direct, and blunt questions without an "excuse me I'm new and I'm trying to get along..." vibe and just stated observations with what I had in front of me. 

But with your comment though I'm reading yet again someone not taking responsibility for their actions. You can say it's youth and I just don't get it because I haven't been married for decades, but I say to hell with that. This is me being very direct. I still read your comment coming from a selfish place. I want to protect my friends and loved ones from things and people who aren't me. If my actions are a direct result of pain and conflict then I would try to make an immediate change. I didn't say which way that change would go but a change nonetheless. And not basically say "I love this person but am still going to do this even though I'm aware what I'm doing is completely self serving but so be it. Oh yeah, I'm also not going to tell them about it because I know it would hurt them but really I'm a man and men and women are different."

I get that love is immensely complicated but I keep seeing an extremely outdated sense of thinking in how men and women are so different, and if I as a man don't subscribe to that antiquated notion I'm somehow weaker and too young to fully understand. I see at as me owning up and making tough decisions others aren't willing to, and not hiding behind some half truth that helps me sleep at night. 

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6 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

 I see at as me owning up and making tough decisions others aren't willing to, and not hiding behind some half truth that helps me sleep at night. 

Alrighty then.  How wonderful for you that you are so wonderful.

WTF are you doing posting on a board geared towards adult service providers, then, if you don't intend to visit them, and intend only to criticize those who do? 

You, sir or madam, are a troll.  Begone.

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