JoDoe's questions (to avoid thread drift)

[JoDoe27]

36 minutes ago, Laplace said:

Alrighty then.  How wonderful for you that you are so wonderful.

WTF are you doing posting on a board geared towards adult service providers, then, if you don't intend to visit them, and intend only to criticize those who do? 

You, sir or madam, are a troll.  Begone.

@Laplace: again you're making an assumption and presume to think I don't see providers when that's absolutely not the case and far from it. If I mention any it's shilling. But you'll just have to take my word I've seen several. My P411 is nicely filled with ok's. I just don't do it while I'm actively involved with a person I consider to be my an equal partner in a relationship. Nor am I a troll. I've only restated the obvious from a bunch old dudes thinking they run shit. 

How about you post a picture of your ok's and I'll do the same? That seems to be the only way to prove I enjoy companionship like the rest. If you want to go that route I'm up for it. I'll even go a step further and say to any lady I've seen you'll either recognize my name or remember my wonderful motorcycle scars. Anything else?

36 minutes ago, Laplace said:

Alrighty then.  How wonderful for you that you are so wonderful.

WTF are you doing posting on a board geared towards adult service providers, then, if you don't intend to visit them, and intend only to criticize those who do? 

You, sir or madam, are a troll.  Begone.

@Riggo

(My phone doesn't like direct quoting so I'm @ you on this.)

i find it interesting you say I'm judgmental when the comments, including yours, aimed at me have been exactly that. I asked direct, and blunt questions without an "excuse me I'm new and I'm trying to get along..." vibe and just started stating observations with what I had in front of me. 

But with your comment though I'm reading yet again someone not taking responsibility for their actions. You can say it's youth and I just don't get it because I haven't been married for decades, but I say to hell with that. This is me being very direct. I still read your comment coming from a selfish place. I want to protect my friends and loved ones from things and people who aren't me. If my actions are a direct result of pain and conflict then I would try to make an immediate change. I didn't say which way that change would go but a change. And not basically say "I love this person but am still going to do this even though I'm aware what I'm doing is completely self serving but so be it. Oh yeah, I'm also not going to tell them about it."

I get that love is immensely complicated but I keep seeing an extremely outdated since of thinking in how men and women are so different, and if I as a man don't subscribe to that antiquated notion I'm somehow weaker and too young to fully get it. I see at as me owning up and making tough decisions others aren't willing to, and not hiding behind some half truth that helps me sleep at night. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Laplace said:

Alrighty then.  How wonderful for you that you are so wonderful.

WTF are you doing posting on a board geared towards adult service providers, then, if you don't intend to visit them, and intend only to criticize those who do? 

You, sir or madam, are a troll.  Begone.

Thank you Laplace!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JoDoe27 said:

@Riggo

(My phone doesn't like direct quoting so I'm @ you on this.)

i find it interesting you say I'm judgmental when the comments, including yours, aimed at me have been exactly that. I asked direct, and blunt questions without an "excuse me I'm new and I'm trying to get along..." vibe and just stated observations with what I had in front of me. 

But with your comment though I'm reading yet again someone not taking responsibility for their actions. You can say it's youth and I just don't get it because I haven't been married for decades, but I say to hell with that. This is me being very direct. I still read your comment coming from a selfish place. I want to protect my friends and loved ones from things and people who aren't me. If my actions are a direct result of pain and conflict then I would try to make an immediate change. I didn't say which way that change would go but a change nonetheless. And not basically say "I love this person but am still going to do this even though I'm aware what I'm doing is completely self serving but so be it. Oh yeah, I'm also not going to tell them about it because I know it would hurt them but really I'm a man and men and women are different."

I get that love is immensely complicated but I keep seeing an extremely outdated sense of thinking in how men and women are so different, and if I as a man don't subscribe to that antiquated notion I'm somehow weaker and too young to fully understand. I see at as me owning up and making tough decisions others aren't willing to, and not hiding behind some half truth that helps me sleep at night. 

You sir are an ass!  You judge others, because you seem to be single.  Everyone should fit under your umbrella of values.  Sorry, we all won't fit under there unless you have a very large umbrella.  Sorry we can't all be the MAN that you are.  Life is a little more complicated than "This is what I think".

Edited November 29, 2015 by Riggo

[JoDoe27]

I maybe an ass, and yes I'm single but you sir are an entitled privileged dick refusing to take any responsibility for your actions. I didn't immediately judge anyone but had a wonderful heaping of shit targeted at me for asking questions and pointing out what I'd seen. So be pissed at me for calling you out but be mad at yourself for putting it on display for all to see.  You can miss me with the redirects. And for that matter there's nothing else you can contribute to this conversation. 

I find it telling the oldest amongst us instantly resort to name calling accusatory claims the instant their microcosmic world view is challenged and called into question. 

And since I'm young I've more than enough energy and gaul with more than enough in the category of zero fucks to keep it going as long as needed or until I'm banned. 

[Guest]

You win.  You are a much better man than me.  I am sorry.

[gettin' up there-2233]

 

Alrighty then.  How wonderful for you that you are so wonderful.

WTF are you doing posting on a board geared towards adult service providers, then, if you don't intend to visit them, and intend only to criticize those who do? 

You, sir or madam, are a troll.  Begone.

+1. Well stated!  What a pain in the ass!  He/she who is so wonderful and always honest gets to live that wonderful life. I'm sure we are all envious of his/her plan for lifelong monogamy. Those of us who have made the decision to do otherwise will enjoy the hobby we've chosen and come to terms with this each in our own way.  If JoDoe is struggling with this, take it elsewhere. Now you've gotten some of our favorite escorts questioning their participation in our deception!  I'm just waiting to see the provider ad that states:  "Single men only!" 😝

[Guest]

JoDoe27, the questions and arguments you asked and made are on point, unfortunately they fall on deaf ears among most of the men here. It would appear the second most popular hobby among hobbyists is rationalizing their behavior.

I wouldn't want 95% of the men on this board as a friend or business associate IRL, not because they cheat on their SO's but because they vindicate their choices with untenable arguments instead of acknowledging their digressions.

My personal experience is this...if a man can continually cheat on his SO without contrition  it's quite likely he won't hesitate to screw his friends, business associates or anyone else if things get tough.

Despite what some may think, morals and ethics apply to all aspects of life including this business. I admit freely, I'm judging, something humans do thousands of times a day lest we'd all be roadkill. I'm not judging the fact that some men cheat on their SO, I don't care, I'm judging the platitudes used for cheating. If they weren't so worn and tired they'd be laughable. You can't swing a dead cat on TOB without hearing this tripe. It's simple, own your behavior, you sound like children when you blame your SO.

Walk a mile in your shoes? I have, then I grew out of them.

[Keyser]

12 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

... you sir are an entitled privileged dick refusing to take any responsibility for your actions.

I find it telling the oldest amongst us instantly resort to name calling...

Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

See, Joe, these guys ARE taking responsibility for their actions.  They're actually doing more than that, they're also taking responsibility for their partner and their marriage as a whole by doing what they need to do to preserve the second by not hurting the first.

You're just butt hurt because they're not doing what your narrow-minded view says is the "right" thing to do.  You're single, and only hobby when you're not in a committed relationship.  Congratulations.  So am I.  The difference is that I don't judge the guys who are stepping out on their wives, nor do I try to impose my view of morality upon them.  I hope that someday I'll get married and that we'll have the type of relationship where I won't have a need to hobby, but I'll cross that bridge if I ever get there.  In the meantime, live and let live.

To the others: don't forget that this tool's opinion is worth exactly what you paid to hear it - nothing.

 

[pitbull]

So let's get this straight. JoDoe consorts with prostitutes. He illegally pays for sex. And in the interest of "taking responsibility" and "being honest," I'm sure that he tells his family and friends, right?  And I'm sure he tells his "committed girlfriends" about his sordid past filled with hookers...because after all, they DESERVE to know, right? They deserve to know that he is  the KIND OF MAN who visits women of the night. Hell, you may have all kinds of diseases that they don't want. They may not want to be with a man who has paid for sex.  Then again, is merely NOT TELLING a form of lying? 

I have never lied to my wife. I have not told her about my seven FS sessions over a period of five years, but I have never lied. I tell her, "I will always love you" and that is damn well the truth. 

[JoDoe27]

Actually yes, I have and do tell them. I'm honest with them because they have the right to know. I get tested often as well. And by often I mean every few weeks. I take myself out of the hobby, get tested, wait beyond the period, go again, then come back. The joy of being young, single, and with options allows me to do that with no questions asked. And to be doubly sure I don't give anything to a partner guess what I do...GET TESTED BEFORE WE GET EVEN GET CLOSE!  Again the presumptions are rampant. 

And not lying to your wife but not informing her is a lie of omission whether you want to call it that or not. 

And what's even more interesting is the one guy in this thread that's been completely and totally honest I haven't said anything to. I didn't judge him. He was the only one that answered the questions and openly admitted everything. I didn't force his hand or say anything. He put it all out there for good or bad. Again, I just asked some questions then everyone else got their shit all riled up and decided i was some troll for posting on an escort site. 

So @pitbull: do you care to make anymore assumptions about how I live my life and discuss what I tell my partners? Everyone has a reason as to why they do this, myself included, but get the fuck out of here with this presumption shit. Because you're afraid to disclose this information to those you're involved with out of fear that it'll ruin your life does not mean I'm afraid to do the same. I simply actively choose to not date and fuck chicks on the side and convince myself I'm doing the right thing. 

[abigailfox]

It's all about honesty to me. I could never lie to someone I loved. I could never cheat. However, I am a single woman with needs. I will not judge others, when I have done wrong myself, in different ways, but still wrong. It is not justifiable to lie to the person you love...I can say this, because it's true....I don't see this as being a critcicsm towards asp's. Yes, one could argue that I am perpetuating the cycle. I don't see myself as a marriage saviour - let's be real, the marriage is over. You can whine on and on about being friends, but speaking as a child of someone whose parents should have gotten a divorce. You're not fooling anyone but yourself. Truth may hurt, but deception hurts more.

[abigailfox]

In relation to this, lying by omission is a lie. Yes, merely not telling is a lie, because chances are, she already knows. We are not stupid, we are women. That tiny difference in how you kiss her, how you approach her speaks volumes. You don't have to say a word, trust me.

[JoDoe27]

@Keyser

"See, Joe, these guys ARE taking responsibility for their actions.  They're actually doing more than that, they're also taking responsibility for their partner and their marriage as a whole by doing what they need to do to preserve the second by not hurting the first."

Reread your post and think about exactly what you said. Especially the "not hurting the first." People create these worlds and then lie to themselves to maintain it. Further they lie to others but then say "I never lie!"

Since I was questioned how often do you all get tested and how do you explain that test to your SO? Do you just not say anything or roll into a "it's just a routine checkup" and never admit what occurred? This question is not directly related to you Keyser. 

I'm judging but sure as shit won't back down when some comes at me wrong in real life or in a message board. I will also call a spade a spade. I owe no one in this thread anything. 

Edited November 29, 2015 by JoDoe27

[JoDoe27]

1 hour ago, If6Was9 said:

JoDoe27, the questions and arguments you asked and made are on point, unfortunately they fall on deaf ears among most of the men here. It would appear the second most popular hobby among hobbyists is rationalizing their behavior.

I wouldn't want 95% of the men on this board as a friend or business associate IRL, not because they cheat on their SO's but because they vindicate their choices with untenable arguments instead of acknowledging their digressions.

My personal experience is this...if a man can continually cheat on his SO without contrition  it's quite likely he won't hesitate to screw his friends, business associates or anyone else if things get tough.

Despite what some may think, morals and ethics apply to all aspects of life including this business. I admit freely, I'm judging, something humans do thousands of times a day lest we'd all be roadkill. I'm not judging the fact that some men cheat on their SO, I don't care, I'm judging the platitudes used for cheating. If they weren't so worn and tired they'd be laughable. You can't swing a dead cat on TOB without hearing this tripe. It's simple, own your behavior, you sound like children when you blame your SO.

Walk a mile in your shoes? I have, then I grew out of them.

Well said indeed. 

[pitbull]

30 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

Actually yes, I have and do tell them. I'm honest with them because they have the right to know. I get tested often as well. And by often I mean every few weeks. I take myself out of the hobby, get tested, wait beyond the period, go again, then come back. The joy of being young, single, and with options allows me to do that with no questions asked. And to be doubly sure I don't give anything to a partner guess what I do...GET TESTED BEFORE WE GET EVEN GET CLOSE!  Again the presumptions are rampant. 

And not lying to your wife but not informing her is a lie of omission whether you want to call it that or not. 

And what's even more interesting is the one guy in this thread that's been completely and totally honest I haven't said anything to. I didn't judge him. He was the only one that answered the questions and openly admitted everything. I didn't force his hand or say anything. He put it all out there for good or bad. Again, I just asked some questions then everyone else got their shit all riled up and decided i was some troll for posting on an escort site. 

So @pitbull: do you care to make anymore assumptions about how I live my life and discuss what I tell my partners? Everyone has a reason as to why they do this, myself included, but get the fuck out of here with this presumption shit. Because you're afraid to disclose this information to those you're involved with out of fear that it'll ruin your life does not mean I'm afraid to do the same. I simply actively choose to not date and fuck chicks on the side and convince myself I'm doing the right thing. 

Yeaaaahhh, sure you tell them.  Go live an actual life beyond your limited years. Find someone to actually marry (although that seems doubtful), procreate, and then come back and troll on a hobbyist board.  Go back to your cave, troll, and to the fictional land where you tell your girlfriends about your lurid history with prostitutes. 

[Lucy Kitten]

13 hours ago, Riggo said:

Amen sister!!!  However, in my mind it is the whole sexual repression thing we have going on in our lovely prudish country.  If we could move passed that, I am sure we would be working in the right direction.  Free the nipple for a start!  Geez!  My nipples have been free since I was born.  As men age their man bumps can often start to reach the range of a mid-cup, yet their nipples remain free.  Decriminalize the hobby for the love of "insert favorite omnipotent being here"!

There are far fewer sexual hang-ups in the countries of Europe than we have here at home.

I don't think this is a sexually repressed nation. I think it's an argument we hold onto so we have something to blame for our indiscretions. Instagrams free the nipple madness is not about equality it's about demanding that a business concede to wishes of it's users.There are other platforms that are totally fine with the nipple but they're not as "cool". As for freeing the nipple in public, I would prefer if EVERYONE kept their shirts on.  I think more people than ever are comfortable and free with their sexuality. Same sex marriage is now a thing, Miley Cyrus is a walking talking ad for sexual liberation. We have Game of Thrones which has more sex than Skinemax softcore. We have reality shows about polygamy. We're progressing and far less prude than we have ever been.

[JoDoe27]

@pitbull What's up with the name calling? In my short life I've noticed when people resort these tactics it's because they've nothing important or constructive to say. 

Also, because you decide to withhold this info doesn't mean others do. You lie and lie and lie some more so you feel as though others must as well. That's cool for you, bro, but I assure you those with balls enough to own up to their shit don't make excuses or hide who or what they are when it fucking counts. I care about my partners and their health more than I do "my little secret." So when I'm out procreating in my cave why don't you find the courage to come clean with those that matter most to you? Or are you afraid they, as an adult, will make an informed decision that might not play out the way you see fit? 

[pitbull]

14 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

@pitbull What's up with the name calling? In my short life I've noticed when people resort these tactics it's because they've nothing important or constructive to say. 

Also, because you decide to withhold this info doesn't mean others do. You lie and lie and lie some more so you feel as though others must as well. That's cool for you, bro, but I assure you those with balls enough to own up to their shit don't make excuses or hide who or what they are when it fucking counts. I care about my partners and their health more than I do "my little secret." So when I'm out procreating in my cave why don't you find the courage to come clean with those that matter most to you? Or are you afraid they, as an adult, will make an informed decision that might not play out the way you see fit? 

Name calling? So you're not a troll?  Uh, Ok.   But if you think I believe you when you proclaim on an anonymous board that you proudly tell your many girlfriends that you have consorted with hookers, well, sorry, it won't fly here.  It's bullshit, and you know it. 

Again, I understand you disapprove of married men seeing hookers. Understood. I also happen to find it pathetic that a single guy would have to pay for sex. But hey, if you don't have the balls to get it for free, you have to do what you have to do. 

[JoDoe27]

@pitbull: or could it be this is easier and I'm not looking for anything more than a quick sure fire thing? And pathetic? Really? I find it more pathetic you can't turn on your spouse enough to get it at home for free but instead go out and hire others and then lie about it while pretending to be doing the right thing by sleeping with these women in the name of "saving my marriage." Get the fuck out of here with that pathetic talk. And are you ready this??? Could it be I actually admittedly enjoy the thrill of this and just don't want to be in a relationship. See how I choose to not be in a relationship instead of lying to myself and trying to maintain one that seems to be on its last leg. Which of course brings me back to the point of telling you to be a man for once in your life. I love how you have decided the only people allowed to partake are married individuals with too much invested in their personal lives to lose. The logic there is astoundingly complex.  

You also don't have to believe me when I say I divulge this info. Your fear is not mine. 

Edited November 29, 2015 by JoDoe27

[gr8owl]

Gee, I wish I knew it all when it comes to right and wrong, even up to the point of being able to tell others how fucked up they are without having the least clue of what their personal circumstances are.  Or the ability to assume all facets of their character by a few short sentences.  (This is not guided at one poster by any means).  

I find it very difficult when dealing with the myriad of different situations and personal relationships, and just staying true to myself and my own little beliefs of right and wrong without attacking others for their failings.  Life is quite complicated, especially when love  and sex are involved, and there is no one absolute standard that fits all.  The closest universal I have ever subscribed to is if you are harming no one else you are probably on the right track.  Over the years I am sure I have done many things that SOMEBODY would find evil and unforgivable - and many that I came to regret myself.  But there is precious little comfort to be had in  justifying anything I have done that i am uncomfortable with , and certainly none in trying to show others how morally superior I am.  

I do enjoy hearing other's perspectives on moral issues without the animosity.  Hell, frequently I feel like I learn something just by listening.  Sorry for the ramble.

[pitbull]

6 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

@pitbull: or could it be this is easier and I'm not looking for anything more than a quick sure fire thing? And pathetic? Really? I find it more pathetic you can't turn on your spouse enough to get it at home for free but instead go out and hire others and then lie about it while pretending to be doing the right thing by sleeping with these women in the name of "saving my marriage." Get the fuck out of here with that pathetic talk. And are you ready this??? Could it be I actually admittedly enjoy the thrill of this and just don't want to be in a relationship. See how I choose to not be in a relationship instead of lying to myself and trying to maintain one that seems to be on its last leg. Which of course brings me back to the point of telling you to be a man for once in your life. I love how you have decided the only people allowed to partake are married individuals with too much invested in their personal life's to lose. The logic there is astoundingly complex.  

You also don't have to believe me when I say I divulge this info. Your fear is not mine. 

I understand. You can't get sex for free and must pay for it.  We all share that problem. You have not been married, nor have you procreated (thankfully), and therefore know nothing about the demands of progeny and what it does to a woman's sex drive.  Be a man for once?  And the sole determinant of manhood in your youthful world is voluntarily destroying your family? With every ridiculous post, you show how young and inexperienced you are.  Again, you disapprove of married men frequenting prostitutes. Do you have anything else to add, because this is getting tiresome.  Go find a lady on a Saturday night, for crying  out loud. 

[JoDoe27]

@gr8owl: I never stated I was morally superior, without faults, or that anyone was morally bankrupt. I asked a few questions then follow up questions and from there all hell broke loose. Were my questions direct and blunt? Sure. But why get pissy with me or for that matter answer the questions and expect a pat on the back? As I've stated, many have their reasons including myself. I just said I'm not a fan of the delusions. 

[pitbull]

8 minutes ago, JoDoe27 said:

@gr8owl: I never stated I was morally superior, without faults, or that anyone was morally bankrupt. I asked a few questions then follow up questions and from there all hell broke loose. Were my questions direct and blunt? Sure. But why get pissy with me or for that matter answer the questions and expect a pat on the back? As I've stated, many have their reasons including myself. I just said I'm not a fan of the delusions. 

All this makes me think that JoDo and I both need to get laid...somehow (not with each other!).  I think most of all, here on this board, we like to avoid being judgmental.  Jodo simply can't fathom what it is to have a very long relationship with progeny. I'm sure I can't fathom his situation either. Agreed? He can't fathom the logic of "delusion" or "lying by omission" -- ok, but sometimes it's the best thing for everyone. That may be crazy to JoDo's world view. I get it.  I can't fathom the various life situations that motivate the ladies, etc, etc. 

Edited November 29, 2015 by pitbull

[JoDoe27]

1 minute ago, pitbull said:

All this makes me think that JoDo and I both need to get laid...somehow (not with each other!).  I think most of all, here on this board, we like to avoid being judgmental.  You simply can't fathom what it is to have a very long relationship with progeny. I'm sure I can't fathom your situation either. Agreed? I can't fathom the various life situations that motivate the ladies, etc, etc. 

I will agree with you on that. Life is not easy and it's not as black and white as I often wish it were. There are shades of grey in there as well. 

[pitbull]

You are obviously desperate to be declared the morally superior whore monger because you are single, so I hereby crown you: You are the king of honesty.  You are far better than all married men who see ASPs.  

You are morally indignant that married men would have the audacity to protect their marriages and lives by NOT telling their wives. We get it. We understand. You tell all your many girlfriends about your tawdry liaisons with hookers and they smile and say, "No big deal." That is wonderful. 

I have already woefully violated the first rule of trolls (and yes, you are by all modern definitions) and that is, "Don't feed the trolls." By now you are choking on all the scraps tossed underneath the bridge.  

 

 

[RichardF]

To JoDoe, if you're still there:

I didn't read every word of this long thread, but  I'm surprised that it turned into such a strange shitstorm.  

Like I said earlier, there is a subset of married men who recognize that cheating on their wife is unfair and unethical and do it anyway because it is meaningless fun.  While I did enjoy your thread,  you're not likely to win any award for originality and you didn't provide us with any sort of epiphany.   It's not likely that you'll be up for a Nobel Prize next year.

I confess that I thought you were female at first because it's very common for women to wonder why men with sexy angels at home go out and sleep around.  The answer is boring and I'm 95% convinced that it's the result of evolutionary biology.  Since you're not female, it would be interesting to know why you bring such strong convictions to a board like this.  Is this simply the way you were brought up?  Did your father cheat on your mother?  Or are you motivated by some sort of deep religious beliefs?

[JoDoe27]

@RichardF

Quite the contrary really. I grew up in a relatively happy home with a supportive family. I was just taught to own up and don't make excuses for your actions. I'm solely responsible for most of the things I bring about so really that's it. I've just lurked on here for a while and kept seeing how these women saved marriages for a litany of reasons, hobby phones, and really this shit to cover tracks. So I was just curious more than anything. Things didn't add up. And more so I was in goddamn country bored out of my mind. 

I also don't think I need to be religious to know when I'm hurting people around me that I proclaim to love and are my best friends when I knowingly engage in acts and say I'm doing it for them when it's clearly not the case. 

I also never said when I tell women I've done this they just wink and all is ok. Some find it horribly distasteful and can't understand it. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with prostitution, polyamorous relationships, or much in the way of sexual preference. I hate the stigmas tied to them all. I'm just not a fan of delusion and then forcing others out because they don't get on board with that dumb ass fantasy. 

 And you're right, I'm not winning any awards or unveiling some grand idea. I just find it funny to see a whole bunch of men say what it takes to be a man in one thread then act like petulant children in another while writing a review about DATY being a preference and continuously saying they love their families. Yeah. People can be mad but why are they mad at me? Because I called their bluff? Or because they feel judged when they judge everyone else especially any new member who doesn't instantly conform? 

Im beating a dead horse at this point. But I will say it was entertaining to see that horse get beat up along the way. 

Finally I thought this board was for everyone. Those who don't agree didn't actually have to respond.