This new site....sucks

[sparkey600]

You know, the old site was so much more user friendly. Why did you listen to all the tchno nerds and fuck it up?

Just my 2 cents. I'm prtetty pissed......

[Crazy Horse]

You know, the old site was so much more user friendly. Why did you listen to all the tchno nerds and fuck it up?

Just my 2 cents. I'm prtetty pissed......

You're not the only one my friend. It would seem that this new "improvement" was simply an excuse to start charging a fee for use; at least that's how it looks to me.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Audrey Astor]

I would not say that it "sucks" quite yet, change is usually difficult, and I would like to be supportive. As a former Change Management manager and Software Designer, we used to put together "training manuals" and FAQ prior to a release. I don't see anything here? The Help tab is empty?

I'm not totally dumb, but I can not even figure out how to upload an avatar??? Right click does not work, it is not listed under edit profile.  I would like to create and save an ad without posting it as well. Is that possible? 

[Crazy Horse]

... we used to put together "training manuals" and FAQ prior to a release. I don't see anything here? The Help tab is empty?

It's too bad they didn't consult a professional like yourself to find out how it should have been done. This whole roll out has been amateur hour from the get go; see my thread on the general discussion board about Beta testing. Since this is to become a money making affair I would suspect that like any good capitalist it was done on the cheap to increase future profits...isn't that how the greed works. Damn the consumers and what kind of product we turn out it's all about the profits.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited August 23, 2015 by Crazy Horse
addition

[pfunk]

It's too bad they didn't consult a professional like yourself to find out how it should have been done. This whole roll out has been amateur hour from the get go; see my thread on the general discussion board about Beta testing. Since this is to become a money making affair I would suspect that like any good capitalist it was done on the cheap to increase future profits...isn't that how the greed works. Damn the consumers and what kind of product we turn out it's all about the profits.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

I find it hilarious that you, of all people, are complaining about being charged. You're not paying a dime. You've never paid a dime since TOB was founded in 2001. You never paid a penny for sowet, or decadent city either. Please stop whining like a childish fool. This board is free. Either enjoy it, and try to make it useful, or leave. 

[servius]

Give the site and the people working on it a chance, for Heaven's sake. The alternative, if one reads the post on the reasons for the upgrade, was to close it down given the unmanageability of the old software. Some folks put time and effort into keeping it alive, and the old site was increasingly ananchronistic in terms of both its programmability and its features. I doubt anyone is making much of a profit, here, and if it gets to that point, I say good for them. I also doubt anyone else, here, clients and providers alike, enjoys working for free. My guess is that is exactly what the people operating the site are doing right now. Perhaps a little appreciation is in order, not to mention patience. I don't think the people at TOB "owe" anyone a thing; they have no moral obligation to work on our behalf!  Moreover, folks should be grateful that others are willing to put their sweat and toil into maintaining this community. And from what I understand, it is only the VIP feature (which will provide some safety/reference verification) that will require a subscription, and the proposed fee is much less than P411, I would add. 

[Crazy Horse]

I find it hilarious that you, of all people, are complaining about being charged. You're not paying a dime. You've never paid a dime since TOB was founded in 2001. You never paid a penny for sowet, or decadent city either. Please stop whining like a childish fool. This board is free. Either enjoy it, and try to make it useful, or leave. 

I'm also not being paid to do the new owners Beta testing for them. I'm also not being paid to do a moderator's job by posting instructions on how to use the review board. With Kaduk's help and my testing post we now know how the ladies can post undistorted pics to the ad page.

I may be a "whiner" to you but in my own way I'm contributing to making the best of a bad situation.  It's called "tough love", I may be hard on them because of the way this change over was bungled but maybe in the long run it'll help improve things. What have you done to make this site better other than making like it or leave comments.

It's not "whining" to point out the obvious. This change over was bungled from the beginning and the new site is not as good as the old one was. How this incompetent change over will help the boards competition(eccie/TER) or hurt the ladies' business which it's already doing is yet to be seen.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited August 23, 2015 by Crazy Horse
additions

[Crazy Horse]

Give the site and the people working on it a chance, for Heaven's sake. The alternative, if one reads the post on the reasons for the upgrade, was to close it down given the unmanageability of the old software. Some folks put time and effort into keeping it alive, and the old site was increasingly ananchronistic in terms of both its programmability and its features. I doubt anyone is making much of a profit, here, and if it gets to that point, I say good for them. I also doubt anyone else, here, clients and providers alike, enjoys working for free. My guess is that is exactly what the people operating the site are doing right now. Perhaps a little appreciation is in order, not to mention patience. I don't think the people at TOB "owe" anyone a thing; they have no moral obligation to work on our behalf!  Moreover, folks should be grateful that others are willing to put their sweat and toil into maintaining this community. And from what I understand, it is only the VIP feature (which will provide some safety/reference verification) that will require a subscription, and the proposed fee is much less than P411, I would add. 

You are right...no one enjoys working for free...and yet...is being a volunteer an excuse for doing sloppy work? What was the moral obligation that made them volunteer in the first place. I certainly didn't ask them to work on my behalf but if they on their own volition put themselves in that place I'd expect them to do their best. Because if this is their best I'm glad they're only working on a hobbying board and not something more important. I should make clear that most of my anger is not directed at the mods(that have my appreciation) who have been overwhelmed by the incompetency of the new owner because that's where the buck stops.

You and others cry "patience" so let me ask...what do say to the providers that are losing business and have come on here with posts practically begging for help. For us guys it may be a hobby for the ladies it's about paying the bills and that indeed is a more serious proposition.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[servius]

I remember when TER was not so good. And honestly, TOB, compared to TER, ECCIE, and Humaniplex was very, very dated. It was not all that user friendly, and it had primitive functionality and integration. We were just used to it. The model that is envisioned, here, ultimately will be in a much better position to compete and function on everone's behalf. I have no inside knowledge, here, but I did elsewhere, and it is very taxing both in terms of costs and labor to run a true beta site and the original site, simultaneously. The beta, which in an operational microcosm seldom catches all, anyway, will go much faster this way, actually. So it is good that everyone pitches in on reporting deficiencies. That is exactly what ought to occur. I suspect this will be a much better site sooner than one might think.  And in any event, people need to cool their tempers over what amounts to a free service. There is no need to attack. 

[servius]

 

Hi CH. You said: "You and others cry "patience" so let me ask...what do say to the providers that are losing business and have come on here with posts practically begging for help. For us guys it may be a hobby for the ladies it's about paying the bills and that indeed is a more serious proposition."

 

i think the providers are more enterprising than one might think, and that many, perhaps most, use multiple platforms, not just TOB. I think it likely the fundamental advertising issues will be resolved quickly. i doubt there will be a serious economic impact ... and the service hardly represents a right, anyway. 

[Crazy Horse]

I remember when TER was not so good. And honestly, TOB, compared to TER, ECCIE, and Humaniplex was very, very dated. It was not all that user friendly, and it had primitive functionality and integration. We were just used to it. The model that is envisioned, here, ultimately will be in a much better position to compete and function on everone's behalf. I have no inside knowledge, here, but I did elsewhere, and it is very taxing both in terms of costs and labor to run a true beta site and the original site, simultaneously. The beta, which in an operational microcosm seldom catches all, anyway, will go much faster this way, actually. So it is good that everyone pitches in on reporting deficiencies. That is exactly what ought to occur. I suspect this will be a much better site sooner than one might think.  And in any event, people need to cool their tempers over what amounts to a free service. There is no need to attack. 

But you didn't answer my question...what do you say to the ladies that are losing business and have to come on here begging for help. It's a hobby and a free service for us guys it's something else entirely for the ladies.

How about another question. Using your knowledge, granting that it's not insider, and assuming that it's not a hobbying board but a real business with real paying customers(although the ladies would say they already are) how would you grade the change over. One being the worst job possible and 10 being perfection.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Lucy Kitten]

I would not say that it "sucks" quite yet, change is usually difficult, and I would like to be supportive. As a former Change Management manager and Software Designer, we used to put together "training manuals" and FAQ prior to a release. I don't see anything here? The Help tab is empty?

I'm not totally dumb, but I can not even figure out how to upload an avatar??? Right click does not work, it is not listed under edit profile.  I would like to create and save an ad without posting it as well. Is that possible? 

You have to go to your profile page Holly not the edit profile. Once you're on your page you'll see how it's done. Just click on your name not the menu

[TheWhisperer]

Thank you for your thoughts servius. TOB is a community and we are all here to help each other out. Thank to great Mods like Kaduk and Boink36 and board users such as luce kitten . We are all working toward the same goal, something better.

You will always have those far out from the center who just want to Rant, but without those people we as a community would not get stronger. We want to thank all the TOB users who have supported this forum over the years...

Ok, back to work, we have bugs to fix... have a great day!

[servius]

Hey CH. I tried to answer, but I think it posted just as you were posting. I guess to abbreviate, I would tell them it will be worth the inconvenience, and honestly, I doubt it is all that much of an inconvenience for the reasons stated. I think the reference feature will be a decided advantage, among other things

Oh gee, honestly, I would need to know a lot more to offer up a rating. But under the best of circumstances, not everyone will be satisfied. From my limited vantage point I don't see any intractible issues here. Actually, my inside experience is with another, much larger board, one in which I am no longer a principal, and that underwent a similar major overhaul some years ago.  I moved to CO when I retired, and my hobbying days are behind me.  Just an old geezer who has good memories of it all and enjoys the comraderie and company of folks who are involved. 

[Crazy Horse]

 

 i doubt there will be a serious economic impact ... and the service hardly represents a right, anyway. 

Interesting how those who aren't being impacted economically downplay those that are. It's also interesting how paying customers have no right to expect the service they pay for.

I may be wrong...I often am... but I now have a niche to categorize Mr. Servius. He may not yet be a part of the 1% but he sure wants to be.

...happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited August 23, 2015 by Crazy Horse
deletion

[servius]

I imagine I am in 1% of quite a few things. And 99% of quite a few others. I don't aspire to much anymore, though. No downplay of anyone's disadvantage or plight, btw. Just no real evidence that they are suffering economically because of TOB. Good that you are representing their interests, though. But I find constructive criticism works better. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by servius

[Audrey Astor]

You have to go to your profile page Holly not the edit profile. Once you're on your page you'll see how it's done. Just click on your name not the menu

Thanks for taking time to reply Lucy. 

Wow, I don't like all of the negativity. I hope my comment did not create that. Like all new things it is just cumbersome at first. I think it's good that admin is reading and responding. I'm sure it will all work out in time. 

[Lucy Kitten]

Thanks for taking time to reply Lucy. 

Wow, I don't like all of the negativity. I hope my comment did not create that. Like all new things it is just cumbersome at first. I think it's good that admin is reading and responding. I'm sure it will all work out in time. 

No problem just sharing what I learn as  I learn it myself And the grumpiness has nothing to do with your post, everyone lost their security blanket and thumb sucking isn't cutting it

Edited August 23, 2015 by luce kytten

[SixtiesDude]

Lucy, I'm not trying to be snippy or sarcastic. I just want to present things in a different manner that may help you and others understand the unnecessary frustration a lot of users are feeling.

 Begin Scenario >

You are happily using a laptop running XP for years and then I walk in and take it away and gave you a laptop running Windows 7? You had never even heard of Windows 7 before.  Then I stand back and tell you to let me know what "bugs" you find. No "README" file, no HELP menu. Oh, if you need to ask me where to find something I'll be glad to tell you. Want to install a printer? .. I think you can try to figure it out yourself.  <End Scenario

Is Windows 7 superior to XP? Some say yes ... some say no. Was there a lot of gnashing of teeth and frustration with the way Microsoft changed everything? Almost everyone did eventually switch to WIN7 and wound up liking it. This site is the same. Is this site superior to the old TOB? Some say yes ...some say no. Almost everyone will adjust and like the new format eventually.

Maybe not the best comparison, but relevant.  Microsoft at least gave users a heads-up and people were allowed to preview it. And I can STILL run my XP machine all I want. :-)

As I have said before, I support the effort to bring TB into the 21st century and to make it more mobile friendly. I, and others, are frustrated with the way it was done. But the roll-out is done and over. I have to agree with your implied comment ... it's time to quit my bitching and either move on or move away (my words - not yours).

So that being said ... I will be more supportive and helpful during this transition.

 

[Bit Banger]

Having spent my career developing complex software systems (perhaps more years than some members have graced this planet), I have tried to focus on the product and the process, not the individuals involved.  It should be obvious that our hosts do not have the resources (a team of a half dozen test engineers devoting staff years of effort, parallel systems with simulators to generate traffic, etc.) to adequately test this new software prior to deployment.  Hence, a host of bugs should be expected in this shakedown period.  These bugs are being addressed as presented, with incremental improvements which should result in a clean system - in a few days, weeks, or months.  With that in mind, we are the test engineers, pointing out the bugs and deficiencies in the new system.  It's not a matter of "whining", but striving for a better product.

Were I doing a formal post-mortem analysis, perhaps the most glaring error is a failure to consult with the user community, to solicit our input on what features were deemed important, what we could do without and suggestions for improvements to the old system.  A discussion topic on the old board would have sufficed.  From this a set of system requirements could be developed and posted for comment. I understand that not all suggestions would be practical or implemented.  At the very least this would have given us a preview of what to expect.

The second fault is the lack of a users' manual for the new features with tutorials on how to accomplish our once familiar tasks.  As one is developed, a sticky post as part of the FAQ would seem appropriate.  Collecting various responses to user complaints would be a good start.

 

As an aside, I watched the transition from text based systems to graphics based systems.  The new systems had lots of bells & whistles which consumed massive amounts of resources (screen real estate, memory, bandwidth, etc.).  These new systems floundered until technology finally caught up, though it took years.  Now most interfaces are point & click and I struggle when faced with an interface lacking touch screen capabilities.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Bit Banger

[TeddyBear]

 Begin Scenario >

You are happily using a laptop running XP for years and then I walk in and take it away and gave you a laptop running Windows 7? You had never even heard of Windows 7 before.  Then I stand back and tell you to let me know what "bugs" you find. No "README" file, no HELP menu. Oh, if you need to ask me where to find something I'll be glad to tell you. Want to install a printer? .. I think you can try to figure it out yourself.  <End Scenario

I

I think the scenario is more like we've been given Windows 8.

[servius]

I agree with the substance of what you say, Bit.  I am a mathematician, not a systems person. However, I have dealt with many similar issues on another board that underwent a big transition. What I find objectionable (not by you, I hasten to add) are unfounded personal attacks on others' competency, along with what appears to be a sense of entitlement and grandiosity under the guise of nobless oblige for others, and what amounts to a simple lack of manners and self-control. This is unhelpful and unnecessary in being a constructive critic. 

[Lucy Kitten]

Lucy, I'm not trying to be snippy or sarcastic. I just want to present things in a different manner that may help you and others understand the unnecessary frustration a lot of users are feeling.

 Begin Scenario >

You are happily using a laptop running XP for years and then I walk in and take it away and gave you a laptop running Windows 7? You had never even heard of Windows 7 before.  Then I stand back and tell you to let me know what "bugs" you find. No "README" file, no HELP menu. Oh, if you need to ask me where to find something I'll be glad to tell you. Want to install a printer? .. I think you can try to figure it out yourself.  <End Scenario

Is Windows 7 superior to XP? Some say yes ... some say no. Was there a lot of gnashing of teeth and frustration with the way Microsoft changed everything? Almost everyone did eventually switch to WIN7 and wound up liking it. This site is the same. Is this site superior to the old TOB? Some say yes ...some say no. Almost everyone will adjust and like the new format eventually.

Maybe not the best comparison, but relevant.  Microsoft at least gave users a heads-up and people were allowed to preview it. And I can STILL run my XP machine all I want. :-)

As I have said before, I support the effort to bring TB into the 21st century and to make it more mobile friendly. I, and others, are frustrated with the way it was done. But the roll-out is done and over. I have to agree with your implied comment ... it's time to quit my bitching and either move on or move away (my words - not yours).

So that being said ... I will be more supportive and helpful during this transition.

 

I do feel you but here is the difference, I actually pay for a service and you guys don't. Great I get the frustration but you have no idea how frustrating it really is, yaying for something and not being able to use it blows so get back to me when it's a paid service for you. However the only option we really have is to suck it up like I said earlier. All this complaining about how so and so liked the old layout more is moot and those who are complaining the most don't even pay for the services this site provides which makes it all that much more irritating.

 

I am not oblivious to the reasons but don't really care to hear the whining. I would rather be proactive and report issues as I find them so this site can become useful to me again.

 

[GinaXXX]

Personally, I'm very impressed with what I'm seeing here.... I think it's an excellent foundation that can be easily built on. I particularly like that the providers' review urls stayed intact, and the layout of the review profiles.

Of course, it's going to take a bit to get things all running smoothly and iron out the wrinkles, and for me to figure out how to move around the new site.... but I had no idea that I would be as happy with the upgrade as I am.

It's with great pleasure (and a little bit of sadness) that I fully turn over my keys to The Whisperer. I wish you great success and hope that we can continue to work together long into the future.

Always,
Gina

[Juanmotai]

As with anything new there is going to be some growing pains. Give these guys a chance man. It's encouraging that the moderators are posting and answering questions as best they can. If the site isn't fixed by the time they start charging, then bitch about it. I agree with Luce kytten here, us guys aren't paying a dime for this service. It seems to me that these guys are working their ass off to make this site useable. Lets give them a chance 

[Annalise Anjou]

I would not say that it "sucks" quite yet, change is usually difficult, and I would like to be supportive. As a former Change Management manager and Software Designer, we used to put together "training manuals" and FAQ prior to a release. I don't see anything here? The Help tab is empty?

I'm not totally dumb, but I can not even figure out how to upload an avatar??? Right click does not work, it is not listed under edit profile.  I would like to create and save an ad without posting it as well. Is that possible? 

pretty frustrating the "hiccups" weren't tested behind the scenes prior to rollout! In event hiccups were tested behind the scenes, amateur is putting it lightly! 

[TheWhisperer]

I do feel you but here is the difference, I actually pay for a service and you guys don't. Great I get the frustration but you have no idea how frustrating it really is, yaying for something and not being able to use it blows so get back to me when it's a paid service for you. However the only option we really have is to suck it up like I said earlier. All this complaining about how so and so liked the old layout more is moot and those who are complaining the most don't even pay for the services this site provides which makes it all that much more irritating.

 

I am not oblivious to the reasons but don't really care to hear the whining. I would rather be proactive and report issues as I find them so this site can become useful to me again.

 

Luce we sent you a PM

pretty frustrating the "hiccups" weren't tested behind the scenes prior to rollout! In event hiccups were tested behind the scenes, amateur is putting it lightly! 

We are sorry you feel this way and are working to resolve any issues

Having spent my career developing complex software systems (perhaps more years than some members have graced this planet), I have tried to focus on the product and the process, not the individuals involved.  It should be obvious that our hosts do not have the resources (a team of a half dozen test engineers devoting staff years of effort, parallel systems with simulators to generate traffic, etc.) to adequately test this new software prior to deployment.  Hence, a host of bugs should be expected in this shakedown period.  These bugs are being addressed as presented, with incremental improvements which should result in a clean system - in a few days, weeks, or months.  With that in mind, we are the test engineers, pointing out the bugs and deficiencies in the new system.  It's not a matter of "whining", but striving for a better product.

Were I doing a formal post-mortem analysis, perhaps the most glaring error is a failure to consult with the user community, to solicit our input on what features were deemed important, what we could do without and suggestions for improvements to the old system.  A discussion topic on the old board would have sufficed.  From this a set of system requirements could be developed and posted for comment. I understand that not all suggestions would be practical or implemented.  At the very least this would have given us a preview of what to expect.

The second fault is the lack of a users' manual for the new features with tutorials on how to accomplish our once familiar tasks.  As one is developed, a sticky post as part of the FAQ would seem appropriate.  Collecting various responses to user complaints would be a good start.

 

As an aside, I watched the transition from text based systems to graphics based systems.  The new systems had lots of bells & whistles which consumed massive amounts of resources (screen real estate, memory, bandwidth, etc.).  These new systems floundered until technology finally caught up, though it took years.  Now most interfaces are point & click and I struggle when faced with an interface lacking touch screen capabilities.

We agree there have been some missteps and we are working through those now. We appreciate your feed back!

[Malbolshia]

A little jarring attempting to login and the site indicating that my password doesnt work. 

Forgot password dident even recognize my account.

After some patience, a little time and effort, I was finally able to get logged in.

I like the look, a lot more interactivity. I think, at least for myself, it's going to take some getting used to it. 

 

[JRWolfe]

How do we get to our private messages ?? Yes, this new version is much more complicated than the last one.

[TheWhisperer]

A little jarring attempting to login and the site indicating that my password doesnt work. 

Forgot password dident even recognize my account.

After some patience, a little time and effort, I was finally able to get logged in.

I like the look, a lot more interactivity. I think, at least for myself, it's going to take some getting used to it. 

 

Thank you for those kind words:)

How do we get to our private messages ?? Yes, this new version is much more complicated than the last one.

click the Mail box icon or your name in the upper right hand corner and then messages