De-evolution of an escort-client relationship.

[Guest]

Another cautionary tale.

I have a few favorites. One lady in particular I've seen for several years. She gets about 3 to 4000 thousand annually in business from me. I like her and enjoy her company. Told her so. I always tip her.

So she goes on tour, and her car breaks down. I think she ran it out of oil. She calls me asking for help.

Now, I do ok. I have an expensive hobby. But I can't go around buying cars for everyone. But I like her. So, I offer to send her around 1000 to help with repairs. Won't cover it all, though. She turns it down.

Now she's mad at me because I didn't offer enough just to make the whole thing go away.

And, she did a pretty good job of making me feel like a cheap bastard in the process.

Don't know if she'd see me again professionally. Not going to try. I have no doubt that she'll make up the lost income from other clients. 3 to 4000 is not a lot to someone with the income potential of an ASP. But it's a shame. A shame because, even with what I thought were well established and observed personal boundaries, I felt we had chemistry. But, in the end, I just couldn't or wouldn't kick out enough dough fast enough.

Looks like our little white knight is now all grown up.

[contrails]

Another cautionary tale.

I have a few favorites. One lady in particular I've seen for several years. She gets about 3 to 4000 thousand annually in business from me. I like her and enjoy her company. Told her so. I always tip her.

So she goes on tour, and her car breaks down. I think she ran it out of oil. She calls me asking for help.

Now, I do ok. I have an expensive hobby. But I can't go around buying cars for everyone. But I like her. So, I offer to send her around 1000 to help with repairs. Won't cover it all, though. She turns it down.

Now she's mad at me because I didn't offer enough just to make the whole thing go away.

And, she did a pretty good job of making me feel like a cheap bastard in the process.

Don't know if she'd see me again professionally. Not going to try. I have no doubt that she'll make up the lost income from other clients. 3 to 4000 is not a lot to someone with the income potential of an ASP. But it's a shame. A shame because, even with what I thought were well established and observed personal boundaries, I felt we had chemistry. But, in the end, I just couldn't or wouldn't kick out enough dough fast enough.

Looks like our little white knight is now all grown up.

I would say adios and not look back. Funny how quickly the tables turn from a strictly professional relationship to gold digger then you're an asshole all in one conversation.

[pitbull]

Another cautionary tale.

I have a few favorites. One lady in particular I've seen for several years. She gets about 3 to 4000 thousand annually in business from me. I like her and enjoy her company. Told her so. I always tip her.

So she goes on tour, and her car breaks down. I think she ran it out of oil. She calls me asking for help.

Now, I do ok. I have an expensive hobby. But I can't go around buying cars for everyone. But I like her. So, I offer to send her around 1000 to help with repairs. Won't cover it all, though. She turns it down.

Now she's mad at me because I didn't offer enough just to make the whole thing go away.

And, she did a pretty good job of making me feel like a cheap bastard in the process.

Don't know if she'd see me again professionally. Not going to try. I have no doubt that she'll make up the lost income from other clients. 3 to 4000 is not a lot to someone with the income potential of an ASP. But it's a shame. A shame because, even with what I thought were well established and observed personal boundaries, I felt we had chemistry. But, in the end, I just couldn't or wouldn't kick out enough dough fast enough.

Looks like our little white knight is now all grown up.

Wow, that is too bad. Your $3K - $4K is precisely the money she should be using to fix/replace the car. Saving money needs to happen, but sounds as if it did not happen. Perhaps that ethos is not too common when you're making $200 per hour.

[Evad]

You did the right thing. My lady was in New York on tour and got mugged. All her credit cards were in the purse that got stolen, so she calls me asking for help, so I Western Unioned her some dough. It was the beginning of more calls just like the first. You like to think the best of people, but sometimes,....

[pfunk]

Wow, that is too bad. Your $3K - $4K is precisely the money she should be using to fix/replace the car. Saving money needs to happen, but sounds as if it did not happen. Perhaps that ethos is not too common when you're making $200 per hour.

It is too bad. Nobody wins. From my experience, many escorts do not save money, even for emergencies. They can always make more. It's not too tough to get new customers, either, just look at all the 411 requests on this board.

I certainly have no sympathy for her, but she probably couldn't care less what I think.

[Guest Kashmir]

Never bite the hand the feeds you!

A $1000 is a generous offer to help!

It is a shame she doesn't value chemistry and friendship. That is priceless.

[sparkey600]

A very close and good friend of mine had a saying "never give broads money" at the time I thought he was somehow messed up, but I got caught up in something very similar to what you described. Got burned in the process, long story..... I guess he was right.

I don't blame you for trying to help out what you thought was a friend. Most of us would have offereed the same to someone we thought was "close"

Just saying........

[Fntimes76]

Sorry a good thing went bad. Seems to be some confusion between employment and entitlement. Dont give girls money is wonderful advice i learned the hard way. It starts with learning when you do and dont buy drinks...."buy me a drink." Hell no. "Buy me a drink?" Probably not. Minutes of conversation proceeding "buy me a drink?" sure, now weve established that i get something out of it. The difference between being used and doing business should be clear.

[Paul Pudenda]

I feel your pain. That happened to me with two ladies whom I thought were admirable. For some ladies, this is just business - regardless of the illusions some weave so well. At least you weren't out any money. I wish I could say the same.

[Guest]

Lucky you. I call that a "press to test". Now you know it isn't real and you didn't lose any money.

I wish I could have the money back I've "loaned" to damsels in distress -- former ATFs.

I truly wanted to help but I was too slow to learn.

Thanks for sharing -- it's all too common.

[George Taylor]

So she goes on tour, and her car breaks down. I think she ran it out of oil. She calls me asking for help.

Now, I do ok. I have an expensive hobby. But I can't go around buying cars for everyone. But I like her. So, I offer to send her around 1000 to help with repairs. Won't cover it all, though. She turns it down.

Now she's mad at me because I didn't offer enough just to make the whole thing go away. And, she did a pretty good job of making me feel like a cheap bastard in the process.

Alas, the true GFE experience

Remember the cardinal rule of hobbying, we pay them to go away!

[txspine33]

Alas, the true GFE experience

Remember the cardinal rule of hobbying, we pay them to go away!

Too funny...and accurate.

[Guest]

Did you say she was your ASP or your SO? My SO demands I fix things around the house all the time and I expect it as part of the gig. Not so in the ASP / Client relationship which should remain somewhat professional. Her expectation of "you making this all go away" was unrealistic to say the least. Too bad things had to end because you weren't a reliable enough atm for this YL. She probably won't have any trouble replacing your $3k-$4k annual donations and you shouldn't lose any sleep overthinking what you should have done differently if you had the funds to do so. Where does it all end anyway? First it's the broken down car then its the 3 months in past due rent to keep her from being evicted. Better not to blur those lines.

[parkercole]

yep, you learned out what this is really all about. i've been doing this for over a decade and understand it's just a transaction! I have met some great ladies but never expect or seek anything more. and NEVER get suckered into advancements!! who knows how much mileage you would have got for 1K, if any?

she seems like a real flower with her response to your courtesy:eek:.........

[Gambit63]

Nothing more to add; everything said so far hit the point dead on.

[2Big]

...but I have no idea why you told us. Sending hookers money above and beyond what they charge for sessions, is just enabling profligate behavior. "Oil change" is probably a euphemism for "I ran out of cash because I spent it all on useless trinkets." Alternatively, Bobby Joe Ray, her pimp, is behind on child support, or is sitting in the slammer, unable to make bail.

Seriously, stop thinking with those 3 inches between your leg.

[Guest]

...but I have no idea why you told us. Sending hookers money above and beyond what they charge for sessions, is just enabling profligate behavior. "Oil change" is probably a euphemism for "I ran out of cash because I spent it all on useless trinkets." Alternatively, Bobby Joe Ray, her pimp, is behind on child support, or is sitting in the slammer, unable to make bail.

Seriously, stop thinking with those 3 inches between your leg.

Hence the opening line: "ANOTHER CAUTIONARY TALE"

Your point is well made, and your hypothetical musings about where the money really went are not without merit. And your question of "why even post" is valid. So, I'll take a shot.

I admire the ability that you and several other posters here seem to have, at least according to your posts. The ability to share an intimate moment (or many such moments if you come back for more) with a woman and have ZERO feelings. The ability to look at sex with another person so dispassionately that is nothing more than another urge-driven biological function, like emptying your bladder or eating a hamburger.

When I started, I thought I could do that. I made an effort to treat these women as nothing but jerk-off machines. Like consumer reports on cars, statistics could be gathered and the "perfect ride" found.

But along the journey, I never found that perfect machine. Sure, I had lots of great sex, but I kept running into people. People with vulnerabilities. People with flaws. People with feelings. And, unless you are a sociopath, you are going to respond to these people with feelings. Some you will dislike. Some will elicit feelings of ambivelence. And some you will like. A lot.

So. The reason for this board is the discussion of hobby related topics. Not a lot of threads about this. And I seem to have hit a common experience, due the male responses here. And I have received many supportive (and cautionary) PMs and emails from providers on this.

So, that is why I posted. That little guy between your legs is not the only one who does unauthorized thinking for you. Sometimes your heart will think for you, too. It's important to keep the big head in control. But don't think you won't ever feel. Because you will. You will.

[Bit Banger]

^^This^^ post is even better than the OP.

The majority of my ASP encounters have been of the 'release' nature, though many of these have been friendly rather than mechanical. There are a few that raised my ire. And a few who truely touched my heart to one degree or another. Some are still friends today, even though they've been out of business for years.

As Polonius said, "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

{Hamlet, Act I, Scene 3}

Edited July 12, 2015 by Bit Banger
Added source

[pfunk]

And, unless you are a sociopath, you are going to respond to these people with feelings.

I'm pretty sure "sociopath" decribes a few people on this board. I'd wager the mother/son relationship from "Psycho" is behind a few of these screen names, as well as some "Sybil" personalities.

Unfortunately, they are both clients, and escorts, and the main reason for the screening (I need your ID, Never give out any info) debates.

[Lucy Kitten]

I'm pretty sure "sociopath" decribes a few people on this board. I'd wager the mother/son relationship from "Psycho" is behind a few of these screen names, as well as some "Sybil" personalities.

Unfortunately, they are both clients, and escorts, and the main reason for the screening (I need your ID, Never give out any info) debates.

Really? Do we really have such a high concentration of mentally ill and those with personality disorders? Or do we just have a bunch of people not willing to take responsibility for their own actions and choices?

We don't have any Sybils or Norman Bates. We have a bunch people that just want to be heard and will call other people crazy before they really evaluate themselves.

[pfunk]

We don't have any Sybils or Norman Bates. We have a bunch people that just want to be heard and will call other people crazy before they really evaluate themselves.

I'm pretty sure I've met both, at meet and greets, and appointments. I suspect there are a few more, based on some posts here.

I certainly can't prove it, so I guess we'll have to agree, to disagree.

[wallaby57]

Hence the opening line: "ANOTHER CAUTIONARY TALE"

Your point is well made, and your hypothetical musings about where the money really went are not without merit. And your question of "why even post" is valid. So, I'll take a shot.

I admire the ability that you and several other posters here seem to have, at least according to your posts. The ability to share an intimate moment (or many such moments if you come back for more) with a woman and have ZERO feelings. The ability to look at sex with another person so dispassionately that is nothing more than another urge-driven biological function, like emptying your bladder or eating a hamburger.

When I started, I thought I could do that. I made an effort to treat these women as nothing but jerk-off machines. Like consumer reports on cars, statistics could be gathered and the "perfect ride" found.

But along the journey, I never found that perfect machine. Sure, I had lots of great sex, but I kept running into people. People with vulnerabilities. People with flaws. People with feelings. And, unless you are a sociopath, you are going to respond to these people with feelings. Some you will dislike. Some will elicit feelings of ambivelence. And some you will like. A lot.

So. The reason for this board is the discussion of hobby related topics. Not a lot of threads about this. And I seem to have hit a common experience, due the male responses here. And I have received many supportive (and cautionary) PMs and emails from providers on this.

So, that is why I posted. That little guy between your legs is not the only one who does unauthorized thinking for you. Sometimes your heart will think for you, too. It's important to keep the big head in control. But don't think you won't ever feel. Because you will. You will.

One of the most prescient posts I've seen on the boards. You nailed it! I've wrestled with these feelings myself - sometimes it's hard

[Bit Banger]

I've met plenty who were bi-polar or ADHD.

The only Sybil I've dated was a civilian. Wild experience! I ended up checking her into a mental hospital for long term care.

[pitbull]

Hence the opening line: "ANOTHER CAUTIONARY TALE"

Your point is well made, and your hypothetical musings about where the money really went are not without merit. And your question of "why even post" is valid. So, I'll take a shot.

I admire the ability that you and several other posters here seem to have, at least according to your posts. The ability to share an intimate moment (or many such moments if you come back for more) with a woman and have ZERO feelings. The ability to look at sex with another person so dispassionately that is nothing more than another urge-driven biological function, like emptying your bladder or eating a hamburger.

When I started, I thought I could do that. I made an effort to treat these women as nothing but jerk-off machines. Like consumer reports on cars, statistics could be gathered and the "perfect ride" found.

But along the journey, I never found that perfect machine. Sure, I had lots of great sex, but I kept running into people. People with vulnerabilities. People with flaws. People with feelings. And, unless you are a sociopath, you are going to respond to these people with feelings. Some you will dislike. Some will elicit feelings of ambivelence. And some you will like. A lot.

So. The reason for this board is the discussion of hobby related topics. Not a lot of threads about this. And I seem to have hit a common experience, due the male responses here. And I have received many supportive (and cautionary) PMs and emails from providers on this.

So, that is why I posted. That little guy between your legs is not the only one who does unauthorized thinking for you. Sometimes your heart will think for you, too. It's important to keep the big head in control. But don't think you won't ever feel. Because you will. You will.

Why did Laplace post it? It's quite simple...There is no other place to discuss it. My neighbor is one of my best friends, but I can't talk about hookers. TOB is a venue for that. If you can't post an interesting hooker anecdote on TOB, then what is the purpose of TOB? Thank you for sharing, Mr. Laplace.

[frankenthaler91]

Why did Laplace post it? It's quite simple...There is no other place to discuss it. My neighbor is one of my best friends, but I can't talk about hookers. TOB is a venue for that. If you can't post an interesting hooker anecdote on TOB, then what is the purpose of TOB? Thank you for sharing, Mr. Laplace.

Well said.

[MrFister]

It is a shame she doesn't value chemistry and friendship. That is priceless.

This assumes that chemistry and friendship are recognized as an overall benefit. Sometimes the psychic costs of maintaining the business relationship are too high.

I had a similar experience to Laplace several years ago. I discovered that I wasn't valued as I'd hoped even though chemistry was off-the-charts and we enjoyed each others company. But I also knew that I was a higher maintenance client because of my emotional connection. For the good part of a year before "the final straw", I'd thought about stopping with her. Finally, I walked away on my own terms rather than make a fool of myself.

I think it's common that we think of ourselves as "great guys" that emanate joy and light. But that's an assumption that usually gets us into trouble.

The good part of walking away (and I still think about her everyday) is that I no longer expect or look for an emotional connection. And I'm still a "great guy"

[Guest]

.

I think it's common that we think of ourselves as "great guys" that emanate joy and light. But that's an assumption that usually gets us into trouble.

Yes indeed. Very well said. And I want to add a point. I have received several PMs from ladies saying that not all providers would act this way. And I know that is true. One has also suggested that this thread has turned into an opportunity to bash providers. Reading it from a provider's viewpoint, she makes a valid point, and that was never my intent.

Mr. Fister's point above allows me to elaborate. I am equally complicit in this problem and my reaction to her. Because, dammit, I AM an "great guy!" Really! Just ask my mom!

People, people, people! THIS IS A BUSINESS TRANSACTION. Yes, I was seeking for and getting the "girlfriend experience." And I got it in spades because I lost sight of that fact. But in the long run, and this is going to sound harsh, I was really just another income stream for a business.

This is NOT a slam at providers, who do this for a living, and most of whom provide good service for wages paid. In fact, for you ladies who have felt slighted by this thread, I sincerely apologize. Again, this was not my intent.

And for those searching for a thread on this topic in the future: some keywords.

Feelings. Love. Relationships. Foolish assumptions. Guard your heart. Think with your brain, only.

[Guest]

To Laplace and everyone else who has contributed:

Thank you for this conversation. This was one of the best threads I've read.

For many years I've been trying to figure this all out.

Is it strictly business? Is it personal? Why are we so entangled? Who needs help and who doesn't? Am I a good person?

I will continue to try to figure it out but your thoughts have helped me.

Meanwhile, I'm having a hell of a good time working on the mystery.

[pitbull]

I tend to think of it like clients in my own world selling widgets. I like client A, and I would even call him a friend. However, if he did not purchase widgets from me, I probably would not call him over for a barbecue, and our "relationship" would be over.

While the transaction of provider/client tends to blur the lines due to the nature of its intimacy, I suppose it's really the same. But for the exchange of money, the "relationship" would not exist. That is neither good nor bad, I suppose. I desperately need a woman's tender touch, and she needs money, like all of us do. The transaction makes perfect sense and usually works without a hitch. Usually.

[Guest]

I admire the ability that you and several other posters here seem to have, at least according to your posts. The ability to share an intimate moment (or many such moments if you come back for more) with a woman and have ZERO feelings.

You can all do what you like, but personally, I think you've got it backward. Where else would anyone say it's a problem if you actually like the woman you're having sex with?

You all make this too complicated. Just go have fun and stop thinking so hard. Hell, I'm head over heals in love when I'm with my ATF. When the juices are flowing, your brain releases all kinds of chemicals. I'll go fall in love with her all over again in a few weeks.