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Real Name First & Last

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I suppose you tell that to all the coal miners, oil rig workers, iron workers, & soldiers you encounter (just to name a few). Many professions entail significant risks. If the risks are not to your tastes, find a different way to earn a living.

This is true for both sides of the transaction.

It's very clear that you don't have any real support for this profession. Your only concern seems to be that you personally stay safe. All you have done is flip questions rather than answer them and you have ignored some valid points. As for finding another way to live how about that is the shittiest thing you could say. You don't know my life or the choices I have had to make. Survival is a need seeing escorts is not. It's not me that needs to find something else to do. I don't really care how long you have been around or what wisdom you think you have gleaned in that time; your inability to understand the risk that ladies have who participate in this hobby is worrisome. I hope other ladies understand this.

Many professions do entail risks but the workers are also provided with tools to help eliminate risk, they also know the employers info so employer can be held responsible for employee injury. All that happens when you discourage not giving a real name is increase our chances for danger. So really you and all the other guys that at are so adverse to real info are making us sacrifice our own safety for your own. That's not a compromise.

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Luce, my real problems with this topic are:

1) The hypocrisy of the dual standard. If you want to hide behind a mask - fine. But at the same time acknowledge why we don't want to drop our masks. This dual standard has existed for generations.

And

2) Those who claim that they have all the risks, M or F. This is not a binary situation; it's not black & white!

As for the primary risks mentioned (death & outing) what are they really.

Depending on your religious beliefs, once your dead it's over. No more pain & suffering. But the pain of having your life & livelihood destroyed by an outing lasts for years. (Sorry folks, I've been dealing with some personal mortality issues recently.)

If you want absolute safety while offering transactional sex, go work in a brothel. They will provide you with the physical security (bouncer) you seem to crave.

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Luce, my real problems with this topic are:

1) The hypocrisy of the dual standard. If you want to hide behind a mask - fine. But at the same time acknowledge why we don't want to drop our masks. This dual standard has existed for generations.

And

2) Those who claim that they have all the risks, M or F. This is not a binary situation; it's not black & white!

As for the primary risks mentioned (death & outing) what are they really.

Depending on your religious beliefs, once your dead it's over. No more pain & suffering. But the pain of having your life & livelihood destroyed by an outing lasts for years. (Sorry folks, I've been dealing with some personal mortality issues recently.)

If you want absolute safety while offering transactional sex, go work in a brothel. They will provide you with the physical security (bouncer) you seem to crave.

We can add to this. the fast food industry provides a very safe working environment. Walmart is always hiring good people. this profession is just one choice in millions. if it's a choice you make, laern to live with it or get the hell out. there is a reason why dangerous professions pay more than others. if you can't live with the danger of your own choice, choose again. if you have no choice call the police and report the person trafficking you.

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We can add to this. the fast food industry provides a very safe working environment. Walmart is always hiring good people. this profession is just one choice in millions. if it's a choice you make, laern to live with it or get the hell out. there is a reason why dangerous professions pay more than others. if you can't live with the danger of your own choice, choose again.

It's not the case that "escorting is dangerous, deal with it or get out". There's obviously a huge spectrum of situations and their relative risk levels, from homeless street walkers doing bareback ten times a day for $40 a pop, to under-the-radar ladies who screen and have a very low volume of regular clients. I don't think any client has the right to tell a provider what risks they should take.

IMHO it's a free market. Providers can screen however they wish, and clients can choose to go along with that or not. Me, I'm not giving my real name out. If a provider requires that, I'll simply move on to another who doesn't. But it's not my place to say she's doing escorting wrong. If her rules are too ridiculous, the lack of clients will make that clear.

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IMHO it's a free market. Providers can screen however they wish, and clients can choose to go along with that or not.

I see it as almost a free market, but the illegality distorts all kinds of costs. The voluntary aspect does demonstrate the beauty of a free market. I will transact with someone who willingly wants to transact with me, regardless of screening tactics. (I thought I was gonna have a heart attack the other day the way a YL was transacting upon me.)

If the hobby was legalized I wonder if it would be as free as it is now, as we would probably get a Hobby Czar, a boatload of legislation, and "sin" taxes. Clients would haul providers into court for discrimination, etc. ;)

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Fork, you're right. Instead of trying to point out the hypocrisy of the dual standard I should be saying to myself, "This is a person with whom I should not do business." The free market will sort things out.

The great thing about beating your head against a block wall is that it feels so good when you stop.

Edited by Bit Banger
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Good thread, good responses by all. But I feel compelled to throw my noise into the fray.

I feel it unfair to say that providers have it far more hazardous than our clients. I feel that unless you walk in another individual's shoes; how dare we presume that the damage that can be done is not on par with another individual. This is all in the realm of a huge, gigantic grey area. I underline this term to illustrate that this is indeed a large area. It includes all definitions of what we deem as risks. To only see this dilemma in the black and white ratio is ludicrous.

I concur, as a provider whom society dictates that we engage in risky behavior we are far more likely to run into these risks. But for a man who willingly also engages this in this behavior- the high risk is also on par. There are inherent dangers associated with living our lives. How much we are wishing to partake of this risky behavior is entirely up to us as part of the human equation.

There are more than a few here who know who know my real last name identity. A few even know my first name, and my place of residence. These individuals I obviously consider these people- friends. Some with the proper boundaries attached due to their marital or occupational status. Do I require a man?s real identity? No, I do not. However, I will research you. To the best of my ability. If you have a big mouth on message forums- all the better for me. Your reputation and my own sense of ?hoedar? have served me well in the ten plus years I?ve been doing this as a sometimes part time, and sometimes full time occupation.

I see Lucy?s point. We are more prone to bad things happening to us due to our activity level. But to say one group is capable of receiving more damage is incorrect.

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(I thought I was gonna have a heart attack the other day the way a YL was transacting upon me.)

Good point ... less talk, more transacting!

41LuJhpvAQL._SY355_.jpg

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Your only concern seems to be that you personally stay safe.

Pot...kettle....black

I don't think I've ever seen you express empathy toward the concerns men have.

You can screen however you want to. Nobody is telling you that you shouldn't. But you love to come here and tell us that we're wrong for not wanting to give our real names.

Bottom line, like I've said before, screen or don't screen, it's your decision. Just don't bitch at us when we exercise our RIGHT not to divulge.

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There are more than a few here who know who know my real last name identity. A few even know my first name, and my place of residence. These individuals I obviously consider these people- friends. Some with the proper boundaries attached due to their marital or occupational status. Do I require a man?s real identity? No, I do not. However, I will research you. To the best of my ability. If you have a big mouth on message forums- all the better for me. Your reputation and my own sense of ?hoedar? have served me well in the ten plus years I?ve been doing this as a sometimes part time, and sometimes full time occupation.

I believe in the right to privacy. No way do I require a client to give me his real name. Though most do. Generally speaking we are all good people here. There is a lot of trust involved on both sides. Does this mean I can't trust a client, because he won't give me his real name? Sure I can trust him. Like Jez said, there are other ways to see if you are meeting a good client. A good phone conversation prior is a must for me.

Those who know me, know I am a trusting person. My identity is quickly revealed when I meet you. I give everyone my real name. Do I give my last name? Not usually. I also would not see a client if he asked me for my driver's license! I am certainly not going to ask for theirs.

I had this trust tested last September. A potential client managed to piece together who I was. I declined meeting him, the hair on my neck stood up when we spoke on the phone. I was right in not in meeting him. The next thing he did was send me my full name. Yikes! If you google my full name, my place of employment comes up. He threatened to call my job. With the help of a fellow provider, I found out who he was. He had a long record with multiple charges for domestic abuse. One time is all it takes to have your life ruined. Sex is not worth that, or is money.

Our identities are a privilege, that can be shared if the person is willing. If a client shares his identity with me, that is an honor. Something I will protect, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

Jez I hope you are feeling well!

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As Kashmir states, and I quote,

.......I had this trust tested last September. A potential client managed to piece together who I was. I declined meeting him, the hair on my neck stood up when we spoke on the phone. I was right in not in meeting him. The next thing he did was send me my full name. Yikes! If you google my full name, my place of employment comes up. He threatened to call my job. With the help of a fellow provider, I found out who he was. He had a long record with multiple charges for domestic abuse. One time is all it takes to have your life ruined. Sex is not worth that, or is money.

Our identities are a privilege, that can be shared if the person is willing. If a client shares his identity with me, that is an honor. Something I will protect, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

Jez I hope you are feeling well!

....Kashmir, thank you for asking. Today is a good day with more to follow.

II agree, it is a honor to know a person's real identity And most people go into to this scenario with any major qualms against this. That is until some idiot decides to wreak havoc.

It is up to the individual how much they care to divulge. And I agree with Kashmir, this IS a honor, not a privilege. Choose carefully whom you give this knowledge too.

I have never subscribed to the "tell all" theory. As some do. Bottom line is, choose your lady or gentleman carefully, do your research and none of these issues should ever be of concern to you. Engaging in risky behaviour's is a personal thing. Deal with it in the proper way and it should become a non-issue.

"Hoedar, hoedar, hoedar "

has kept me safe. The only major issues I have dealt with are the occasional male and female internet troll, and I've been ripped off by a client (who did not no my real name).

Slainte !

Jez

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Pot...kettle....black

I don't think I've ever seen you express empathy toward the concerns men have.

You can screen however you want to. Nobody is telling you that you shouldn't. But you love to come here and tell us that we're wrong for not wanting to give our real names.

Bottom line, like I've said before, screen or don't screen, it's your decision. Just don't bitch at us when we exercise our RIGHT not to divulge.

As usual the bigger point is missed. I have nothing but empathy but my empathy is more for the ladies who are taken advantage of everyday. Not a single one of you who likes to tell me I am wrong has expressed any sympathy for the provider.

I never once said anyone was wrong, what I was really trying to imply is that if a lady was going to let someone inside of her she should know a name. I will ask again since no will answer this, what is a provider supposed to do when she is beaten and robbed and all she has is nothing?

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As usual the bigger point is missed. I have nothing but empathy but my empathy is more for the ladies who are taken advantage of everyday. Not a single one of you who likes to tell me I am wrong has expressed any sympathy for the provider.

I never once said anyone was wrong, what I was really trying to imply is that if a lady was going to let someone inside of her she should know a name. I will ask again since no will answer this, what is a provider supposed to do when she is beaten and robbed and all she has is nothing?

Here's one YOU can't answer:

What's a john supposed to do when a provider uses his personal information against him? Write a review??? Puh-lease.

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As usual the bigger point is missed. I have nothing but empathy but my empathy is more for the ladies who are taken advantage of everyday. Not a single one of you who likes to tell me I am wrong has expressed any sympathy for the provider.

I never once said anyone was wrong, what I was really trying to imply is that if a lady was going to let someone inside of her she should know a name. I will ask again since no will answer this, what is a provider supposed to do when she is beaten and robbed and all she has is nothing?

Sweetie Pie, I just want to reach through the computer and give you a hug and tell you that I DO have Sympathy, but not Empathy.

I understand the point you are trying to make. I understand why you have the screening rules you do. And, I believe you understand and respect why I would not subject myself to them.

I will attempt to answer you question. What would you do if you are beaten and robbed and all you have is nothing? Pretty much the same as the rest of us guys who might get mugged by a deranged pimp at some ladies' incall : File a police report, giving description and nature of the crime. Or not. Because we were committing a crime ourselves.

This is why providers and clients are targets. We're easy marks because of the illegal nature of our activities. And providers, especially, have lots of untraceable cash on them.

Now, since escorting (no sex) is supposedly legal, you might have a better chance if you call the cops. If you do it quickly, they might even be able to locate the guy if he has not disabled or discarded his hobby phone. (Guys who rob and beat women are not usually very smart.) Triangulation from cell towers is pretty damned accurate these days.

You can do other things as well without mentioning them. These things really creep me out and piss me off if I discover them, but you can take license plate photos or hidden camera photos when the guy comes in the door.

I understand and respect your fear. I believe you understand mine. It is a real shame that our mutual fear will keep us apart, because you have lovely "assets" and your posting history demonstrates an intelligent and sensitive person. But there you go.

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Luce, my real problems with this topic are:

1) The hypocrisy of the dual standard. If you want to hide behind a mask - fine. But at the same time acknowledge why we don't want to drop our masks. This dual standard has existed for generations.

And

2) Those who claim that they have all the risks, M or F. This is not a binary situation; it's not black & white!

As for the primary risks mentioned (death & outing) what are they really.

Depending on your religious beliefs, once your dead it's over. No more pain & suffering. But the pain of having your life & livelihood destroyed by an outing lasts for years. (Sorry folks, I've been dealing with some personal mortality issues recently.)

If you want absolute safety while offering transactional sex, go work in a brothel. They will provide you with the physical security (bouncer) you seem to crave.

You are the most condescending person I have ever dealt with. You again disregard all of my points to continue to tell me that I am wrong and should find another line of work. I never made claims of absolute safety, I am making claims that all that we use currently to screen is pointless and doesn't offer much safety. Also don't be that wanker that brings religion into the debate, and I really can't believe that you are trying to get us to believe that being outed is worse than being murdered.

I still don't quite understand this double standard, you again don't need my real name to any damage. You have enough ammunition with just an ad for illegal services. There are reviews where you can damage a ladies reputation beyond repair. Ever been to a private incall that was also the ladies home? I know for a fact you have. So where exactly is the inequality? You want the opportunity to do equal damage you have it.

No this isn't black and white but you are the one who keeps using words like "all". Ladies do assume the majority of the risk. I gave you a nice list of reasons why but all you had in response is "depending on religion, death is better than being outed". Very nice, it's clear to me you have a firm grasp on the issue :rolleyes:

We can add to this. the fast food industry provides a very safe working environment. Walmart is always hiring good people. this profession is just one choice in millions. if it's a choice you make, laern to live with it or get the hell out. there is a reason why dangerous professions pay more than others. if you can't live with the danger of your own choice, choose again. if you have no choice call the police and report the person trafficking you.

But here is the deal, you guys don't get to create another layer of risk and tell us to deal with it. You don't get to set the standards of my job. And you most certainly have no right to tell me how to best support myself. That is the most judgmental malarkey. When you don't know a persons struggles, the choices they have to make, the opportunities that aren't really available because of certain choices.

If you are of the opinion that providers should just move on if they don't feel like assuming the risk and that anonymity is the way to go then I believe you more than likely have a low opinion of this business as a whole.

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Here's one YOU can't answer:

What's a john supposed to do when a provider uses his personal information against him? Write a review??? Puh-lease.

That is exactly what he supposed to do. Hold responsible parties responsible and quit sheltering and basically enabling them to continue. There is a men's only provider alert on ECCIE. If a provide is really and truly BSC I am sure she has more than a few victims and they all use the tools that are available, BSC crazy lady isn't going to have a whole lot of options. I have answered this a few times in this thread but again still no answer to my question.

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That is exactly what he supposed to do. Hold responsible parties responsible and quit sheltering and basically enabling them to continue. There is a men's only provider alert on ECCIE. If a provide is really and truly BSC I am sure she has more than a few victims and they all use the tools that are available, BSC crazy lady isn't going to have a whole lot of options. I have answered this a few times in this thread but again still no answer to my question.

Yes, your question has been answered several times. By me and others.

The answer? Keep on screening. It's your choice. Nobody is telling you not to do that. Nobody is suggesting that you compromise your safety.

Of course, you may or may not lose clients because of your screening habits, but that's your business. Will you affect change by ranting on this board? Nope. Will you have to choose a different screening method in order to stay in business? Maybe. But again, that's your concern.

Will I ever give my real full name? Nope. Is that any of your business? Nope again.

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Well, I won't argue this well covered issue. Everyone needs to do what they're comfortable with. I recently volunteered my first and last name to a provider because I knew it would make her feel better about me. I can't wait to see her again! I trust her, and she's been a good friend. It was just a way to let her know that.

I just got back from a trip and had something really unusual happen. A provider volunteered her real first and last name, and even gave me her address. But it was a very unusual appointment. What an amazing night (and much of the next day) with an indescribably incredible woman. It came at a very good time for me. Any cynicism I had about this is gone forever.

Guys, just find awesome women to spend time with. There are so many of them out there.

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That is exactly what he supposed to do. Hold responsible parties responsible and quit sheltering and basically enabling them to continue. There is a men's only provider alert on ECCIE. If a provide is really and truly BSC I am sure she has more than a few victims and they all use the tools that are available, BSC crazy lady isn't going to have a whole lot of options. I have answered this a few times in this thread but again still no answer to my question.

Then the BSC provider outs the guy. She has his info, he as a stage name.

Sorry, your position is not holding up.

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You are the most condescending person I have ever dealt with. You again disregard all of my points to continue to tell me that I am wrong and should find another line of work. I never made claims of absolute safety, I am making claims that all that we use currently to screen is pointless and doesn't offer much safety. Also don't be that wanker that brings religion into the debate, and I really can't believe that you are trying to get us to believe that being outed is worse than being murdered.

I still don't quite understand this double standard, you again don't need my real name to any damage. You have enough ammunition with just an ad for illegal services. There are reviews where you can damage a ladies reputation beyond repair. Ever been to a private incall that was also the ladies home? I know for a fact you have. So where exactly is the inequality? You want the opportunity to do equal damage you have it.

No this isn't black and white but you are the one who keeps using words like "all". Ladies do assume the majority of the risk. I gave you a nice list of reasons why but all you had in response is "depending on religion, death is better than being outed". Very nice, it's clear to me you have a firm grasp on the issue :rolleyes:

But here is the deal, you guys don't get to create another layer of risk and tell us to deal with it. You don't get to set the standards of my job. And you most certainly have no right to tell me how to best support myself. That is the most judgmental malarkey. When you don't know a persons struggles, the choices they have to make, the opportunities that aren't really available because of certain choices.

If you are of the opinion that providers should just move on if they don't feel like assuming the risk and that anonymity is the way to go then I believe you more than likely have a low opinion of this business as a whole.

I don't see a problem here. if a guy won't give you the personal information you want, don't see him.

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You had this thread wired from the very beginning.

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Luce, my real problems with this topic are:

1) The hypocrisy of the dual standard. If you want to hide behind a mask - fine. But at the same time acknowledge why we don't want to drop our masks. This dual standard has existed for generations.

And

2) Those who claim that they have all the risks, M or F. This is not a binary situation; it's not black & white!

As for the primary risks mentioned (death & outing) what are they really.

Depending on your religious beliefs, once your dead it's over. No more pain & suffering. But the pain of having your life & livelihood destroyed by an outing lasts for years. (Sorry folks, I've been dealing with some personal mortality issues recently.)

If you want absolute safety while offering transactional sex, go work in a brothel. They will provide you with the physical security (bouncer) you seem to crave.

Amen. This nails it.

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... they should protect themselves in whatever way they see fit.

I knew a provider who kept a black widow spider trapped in a glass jar. She throws that thing at me I'm getting the fuck out of dodge.

But I guess I've now seen the worst fears of providers and clients.

Providers fear being murdered by their customers.

Clients fear providers will reveal themselves to their wives/jobs/outside lives.

Maybe we just respect each others boundaries.

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I never once said anyone was wrong,... As for finding another way to live how about that is the shittiest thing you could say.

You have an amazing way of saying people are wrong.

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as usual luce wins the debate with fact based evidence and circumstances. my hats off to you girl.

back to the op's original post:

i say keep doing what you need or want (on all levels). there are plenty of men who will offer their credentials without your asking. you wont find them here but the clientele represented on this board represents a tiny minority of whats out there.

Edited by lola
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you wont find them here but the clientele represented on this board represents a tiny minority of whats out there.

So true!

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Unfortunately, longevity in the biz or even "reputation", do not make a big difference in risk. I cannot go into any real detail but not very long ago a well-known; well-liked; and well-established provider rolled and used what information she had for her own personal gain.

^^^ This ^^^ Danielle Rae is right. This is another reason "reputation" clearly doesn't mean a thing. Well-established providers have been known roll/out people and bring harm. It also has nothing to with our risk. Very sad, but its a fact.

Men are afraid of a provider telling their wives. I am afraid of being murdered ...BY MY WIFE.... Big difference.

+1 Inkspot This is why the bat shit crazy providers out you to your wife. The revenge will begin from the wife being hurt and outraged.

or by actually writing honest reviews. word of mouth is just as untrustworthy, it becomes a game of who and who is not allowed to know all the details.

While I agree with what you are saying Lucy Kytten here, you have to understand their have been clients, who have written honest reviews and they suffer the major consequences from the bat shit crazy provider even more so..... shit is never ending. Just look at the some of the "news paper articles that are published", where the John has to call the police, just to remove the bat shit hookers from extorting or stalking him. :eek:

As a provider who has booked for time and companionship both Female Denver Escorts and Male Escorts for time and companionship DO NOT EVER GIVE OUT YOUR NAME OR IDENTY. P411/Gina has provided a legal service for us to use to avoid many issues just like this one. If you have guys who are smart and refuse to give there information, tell him about p411. What do you have to lose if he's not giving it to you anyway? Nothing!

FACT: Escorts do extort Johns

FACT: Escorts also have murdered johns

I have many links here are just few.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/02/21/judge_accepts_plea_deal_in_sex_case/

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Charge-Bad-check-to-prostitute-lead-to-extortion-3311810.php

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There is really no need to get a guys "real" info. With all the recent BS of don't give out you real info, the guys are not going to give it to you. You therefore need to become creative with your screening. Personally, there are no number of references on the planet that can overcome my gut instinct. If I feel weird in the slightest way, I am going to trust my gut. If a guy gives me his real name or not, if my gut says no....well.

As for black listing sites...I don't use them. There are way too many ladies who feel the need to lie when blacklisting a guy. So again, my gut instinct comes into play. And guys can easily change their info. This business is chalk full of shit happens on both ends...NC/NS, ripoffs/shorting of fee etc etc etc. What is having a guys real info going to do in that case? Nothing. Unless you are one of those ladies the guys are worried about in the first place and go out them to their wives.

SEE THE POINT HERE? A few ding dong, vindictive bitches made all of us ladies untrustworthy. So the guys want to protect themselves. I cannot say as I blame them. I am by no means saying not to screen in your way, if it works and you feel safe, do it. BUT, I would highly recommend not bitching on here about how or why it is not working for you.

I agree with Melissa Sterling 100%.

The smart johns will never tell any escort who he really is. The gentlemen who give me their information, I actually educate them on how to stop giving out their name and personal information to next escort. But I too also entourage them them to get p411 account (where they are verified) to avoid asking for references, or giving out their information. So much easier..... P411 IS DRAMA FREE.

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