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coral kisses

Real Name First & Last

104 posts in this topic

Guys are afraid of giving their real names because they may not trust you to keep their discretion (new providers/ TOFTT cases..those not established) ...whereas as a provider...I am afraid of murder, rape and stalking. Those who are forthcoming with their info and have already done their savvy research on a provider- are not the ones that cause you harm, hurt you, waste your time, counterfeit you or rip you off. Screen as you please....you will attract what you set your standards and boundaries at. On the flip side- as a provider- you owe it to all your clients to have your discretion/security systems locked down as super professionally as you can. ( no "black books" extensive or telling email records/ indiscreet texting or calling from a listed/known escort phone number..etc etc... ) and even with a real name...you need to know HOW to prove it is HIS real name vs a fake. If you cannot do that and assure that safety for your clients...they have every reason to worry.

Stay safe..and remember ..if you are beaten up or harmed or good client goes bad (as what happens with "good referenced" guys sometime) ..you can't go to the police with a TOB Handle, a P411 handle or "Joe" 41 yr old with brown hair and tall". The risk is yours to take or not to take. there will always be those johns who want anonymity..and that's fine. In the past- they had the avenues of the streets or newsprint ads...now ALL TYPES are on the net. Anonymity and Discretion are two different things. A smart man not only knows the difference but chooses his companions super wisely to ensure it.

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If you have ever personally known a woman who was killed or beaten in the job of providing- it changes your standards pretty darn quick against what "risks" you are willing to take.

Men are afraid of a provider telling their wives. I am afraid of being murdered. Big difference.

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not very long ago a well-known; well-liked; and well-established provider rolled and used what information she had for her own personal gain.

Anonymity and Discretion are two different things. A smart man not only knows the difference but chooses his companions super wisely to ensure it.

@Marley:

Since you have identified yourself as a provider, how would I, as a "Smart Man, " be able to know that you are NOT the provider mentioned in the above quote?

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Why are some guys reluctant about giving there real full name? It makes me think your hiding something

Yeah, they're hiding something...wait for it....their real name. Lol.:cool:

Tell me your real name, and I'll tell you mine.

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Sure Coral Kisses, I would be happy to give you my full name: Bart Hunglong.

My full name is:

Omigodyouwanttoputthisthingwhere.:cool:

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I knew that Ms. Kisses (and her three posts) was in for a shellacking, but the august TOB members have been rather mild. The civility is heartening.

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Didn't I go through this with my P411 membership?? Unless I'm just slow I thought the number one reason for P411 is to help ladies feel comfortably with us guys, especially "new ones" (been a hobbyist for years but new to P411). Yes, I know that ladies have different screening rules -if I decide to oblige fine- but full name?? You don't see the difference between this date and one in civilian life?

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I am afraid of being murdered. Big difference.

perhaps you're in the wrong profession. :cool:

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Oh please. All you're doing is breeding paranoia. I don't see how having every little detail of a client's life is going to save me in a life threatening situation. Ultimately, the biggest verification is my gut. If something seemed hinky, I wouldn't see that person.

Asking for a real name is not paranoia. Intuition is a great tool no denying that and I never stated that what was needed was every detail of a gents life just a real name. Having it isn't going to save you, I didn't say that either. I said it's helpful in the event of something bad happening and my questions still stands. When a client takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

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... When a client takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

Let's put this another way:

When a escort takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

Granted, the probability of a violent client is higher than finding a violent escort, but neither is zero.

It's more likely an escort will use a client's real identity to destroy their life instead of take it. Disclosure could trash a client's family, possibly hurting far more than just the client. It could cause the client to lose his job, perhaps even career. Again this has far reaching implications. In today's PC world this isn't nice to say, but considering the probable wealth disparity between clients & escorts, disclosure could be far more devastating for the client and even effect the local economy.

This is not to say that disclosure isn't damaging to an escort or her friends & family. Just trying to make a relative assessment of the effects.

There are risks for both, client & escort. These risks are multiplied by repetition (# of client visits/week for the escort vs. # of escorts visits/wk for the client).

"Be careful out there!"

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I am afraid of being murdered.

perhaps you're in the wrong profession. :cool:

That's pretty harsh and cold. Escorts shouldn't expect to be murdered, and they should protect themselves in whatever way they see fit.

(I'm not saying I would give a girl my real name, that's beside the point.)

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Let's put this another way:

When a escort takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

Granted, the probability of a violent client is higher than finding a violent escort, but neither is zero.

It's more likely an escort will use a client's real identity to destroy their life instead of take it. Disclosure could trash a client's family, possibly hurting far more than just the client. It could cause the client to lose his job, perhaps even career. Again this has far reaching implications. In today's PC world this isn't nice to say, but considering the probable wealth disparity between clients & escorts, disclosure could be far more devastating for the client and even effect the local economy.

This is not to say that disclosure isn't damaging to an escort or her friends & family. Just trying to make a relative assessment of the effects.

There are risks for both, client & escort. These risks are multiplied by repetition (# of client visits/week for the escort vs. # of escorts visits/wk for the client).

"Be careful out there!"

EXCELLENT POST!!!!!

I would just like to say that once a lady knows the guy is a good guy and SAFE, IT IS HER DUTY TO KEEP HIS INFO SAFE!

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Let's put this another way:

When a escort takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

Granted, the probability of a violent client is higher than finding a violent escort, but neither is zero.

It's more likely an escort will use a client's real identity to destroy their life instead of take it. Disclosure could trash a client's family, possibly hurting far more than just the client. It could cause the client to lose his job, perhaps even career. Again this has far reaching implications. In today's PC world this isn't nice to say, but considering the probable wealth disparity between clients & escorts, disclosure could be far more devastating for the client and even effect the local economy.

This is not to say that disclosure isn't damaging to an escort or her friends & family. Just trying to make a relative assessment of the effects.

There are risks for both, client & escort. These risks are multiplied by repetition (# of client visits/week for the escort vs. # of escorts visits/wk for the client).

"Be careful out there!"

While there is assumed risk on both sides of the envelope, IMO an ASP losing her life or being damaged in some way while she's just trying to make a living, far outweighs a client getting fucked over by a wayward ASP because wifey won't fuck him anymore.

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While there is assumed risk on both sides of the envelope, IMO an ASP losing her life or being damaged in some way while she's just trying to make a living, far outweighs a client getting fucked over by a wayward ASP because wifey won't fuck him anymore.

Tell that to the extorted client.

By the way, this topic has been covered in excruciating detail, numerous times, and recently. Bottom line, to the OP, there's no point in bitching about it. Either you get the real name or you don't. If you don't, just move on to the next one. Time (and revenue) will tell if you're being too demanding to make a living at this.

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Let's put this another way:

When a escort takes advantage of you in a violent sort of way what are you going to do with a fake name and hobby number?? You are going to be pissed off with no where to go.

Granted, the probability of a violent client is higher than finding a violent escort, but neither is zero.

It's more likely an escort will use a client's real identity to destroy their life instead of take it. Disclosure could trash a client's family, possibly hurting far more than just the client. It could cause the client to lose his job, perhaps even career. Again this has far reaching implications. In today's PC world this isn't nice to say, but considering the probable wealth disparity between clients & escorts, disclosure could be far more devastating for the client and even effect the local economy.

This is not to say that disclosure isn't damaging to an escort or her friends & family. Just trying to make a relative assessment of the effects.

There are risks for both, client & escort. These risks are multiplied by repetition (# of client visits/week for the escort vs. # of escorts visits/wk for the client).

"Be careful out there!"

Yes indeed. Well written.

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Tell that to the extorted client.

By the way, this topic has been covered in excruciating detail, numerous times, and recently. Bottom line, to the OP, there's no point in bitching about it. Either you get the real name or you don't. If you don't, just move on to the next one. Time (and revenue) will tell if you're being too demanding to make a living at this.

Bring me an extorted client and I will...

Just remember: if he could have kept his dick to himself, he wouldn't be an extorted client.

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Bring me an extorted client and I will...

Just remember: if he could have kept his dick to himself, he wouldn't be an extorted client.

Easy there cowboy. Are you suggesting that 50% to 75% of the provider's potential client base just stop buying? Might want to check with the providers on that, first.

As to being an extorted client, I probably come pretty close. You're awfully glib in your comments about other peoples real life concerns. Tell me again why that is?

The bottom line is, the identification dance is required because there are bad people on both sides. A good sized business (P411) exists because they have filled a niche which addresses the identification concerns of both parties. At least partially.

Not giving my personal identification to a provider, but instead showing my list of oks, is enough to get my foot in the door of, well, virtually every provider I've seen from there. In return for their trust in the system, I try desperately not to be an asshole during a session. This seems to have worked very well so far.

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Bring me an extorted client and I will...

Just remember: if he could have kept his dick to himself, he wouldn't be an extorted client.

I know of two clients in the local area outted by escorts in the past 5 years. Met one & shared PMs with another. Let's not forget Southern Boy!

I do not know of any local escort who has lost her life to a client in that same period. Some profess to having been beaten.

I do know of a local escort who was severely beaten - by a competitor's pimp. (Perhaps 10 years ago.)

{sarcasm}Yes, we should all keep our dicks to ourselves. {/sarcasm}

Then the ladies would have to find other employment. LE would have to fight real crime and the holy rollers would find other causes to champion for revenue.

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I know of two clients in the local area outted by escorts in the past 5 years. Met one & shared PMs with another. Let's not forget Southern Boy!

I do not know of any local escort who has lost her life to a client in that same period. Some profess to having been beaten.

I do know of a local escort who was severely beaten - by a competitor's pimp. (Perhaps 10 years ago.)

{sarcasm}Yes, we should all keep our dicks to ourselves. {/sarcasm}

Then the ladies would have to find other employment. LE would have to fight real crime and the holy rollers would find other causes to champion for revenue.

Ever hear of Paige Birgfeld?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that adultery as we know it should come to an end; but I am saying that the client that gets: busted, outed, etc. needs to bear his own responsibility for his situation.

It's not the ASP that exposed him, as much as the dipshit seeing ASP's that had something to lose(wife/family/job).

Client Bottom line: if you're not doing something you shouldn't, then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

And yes, I remember Southern Boy. If anybody had it coming, he did. Proven by the hubris that it took to publish his own fucking picture on TOB.

Edited by MrReindeer
Science! And add pithy comments re SB.
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<snip> but I am saying that the client that gets: busted, outed, etc. needs to bear his own responsibility for his situation.

Some of us take responsibility for our situation by not letting the ASP have our real info in the first place. See how that works?

I have very little to lose, I am my own boss, no wife and no kids. But I still keep my info to myself because that's how I choose to do it and I've never been turned away. Of course, Coral Kisses is now on my "do not visit" list. But I'm sure she won't miss my business, just like I won't have any trouble finding a different provider.

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Ever hear of Paige Birgfeld?

Bit Banger specified five years, she was killed eight years ago (almost to the day). A bit of a nit to pick, but still...

Goes to the point, though, there's been one in the last eight years and the last time prior to that was who knows how long ago? Multiply out the number of escorts, johns and visits that happen every DAY in Colorado, and I think you'll find that a ladies chance of being murdered on the job in this state are extremely remote at best.

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IYes, SB played a significant part in his own demise. But from conversations with him at a band gig, he was also being squeezed by an ASP with whom he had become enamored.

Paige Birgfeld? Is that the gal from Grand Junction, what 8 years ago? I'm not denying that it happens, just a matter of relative frequency.

It's not just the adulterers among us who have to worry about being outed. Plenty of single guys have a lot to lose (jobs?).

I don't have any truck with those who say,

"But {my side} has {all | the greater} risk."

I will admit that escorts have greater exposure to the risks (they buy more lottery tickets, if you will). But contend that the probability of a bad result for each event is greater for the client. These factors tend to balance out, IMHO.

Edited by Bit Banger
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IYes, SB played a significant part in his own demise. But from conversations with him at a band gig, he was also being squeezed by an ASP with whom he had become enamored.

Paige Birgfeld? Is that the gal from Grand Junction, what 8 years ago? I'm not denying that it happens, just a matter of relative frequency.

It's not just the adulterers among us who have to worry about being outed. Plenty of single guys have a lot to lose (jobs?).

I don't have any truck with those who say,

"But {my side} has {all | the greater} risk."

I will admit that escorts have greater exposure to the risks (they buy more lottery tickets, if you will). But contend that the probability of a bad result for each event is greater for the client. These factors tend to balance out, IMHO.

Disagree.

A woman trying to provide for herself and her family who risks being killed in the course of doing her job has a lot more to lose than a client who is risking exposure by doing something he doesn't necessarily need to do.

I'm sure the working women of this state are resting assured that the frequency is so low...:rolleyes:

Final point:

I'm not saying(nor have I ever said) that ASP's must ask for personal info any more than I've said clients should give it. I agree with the idea that everyone involved must participate at their personal comfort level when it comes to personal info.

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I know of two clients in the local area outted by escorts in the past 5 years. Met one & shared PMs with another. Let's not forget Southern Boy!

I do not know of any local escort who has lost her life to a client in that same period. Some profess to having been beaten.

I do know of a local escort who was severely beaten - by a competitor's pimp. (Perhaps 10 years ago.)

{sarcasm}Yes, we should all keep our dicks to ourselves. {/sarcasm}

Then the ladies would have to find other employment. LE would have to fight real crime and the holy rollers would find other causes to champion for revenue.

We are not allowed to talk of that stuff here and unless the provider is your close and personal friend how are you going to know? There was recently a provider who lost her life, I personally was involved in a very scary violent situation and I am certain I am not the only one. The events that happen are scary and so fucking hard to share. Just because you haven't heard about it doesn't make it any less likely to happen. Does have to happen within your reach to make it true for you?

I will admit that escorts have greater exposure to the risks (they buy more lottery tickets, if you will). But contend that the probability of a bad result for each event is greater for the client. These factors tend to balance out, IMHO.

Please tell me how the men have a higher probability of a bad outcome? The majority of sessions a lady is going to have will be with a man who is larger and stronger than she is, we work in isolation, we have law enforcement whose priority is not crimes against sex workers, we often have an abundance of cash on hand, we are less likely to go to the police for fear of outing ourselves and getting in trouble. A provider is going to do what to you? Out you? Steal the valuables that you don't take with you to sessions?

To each their own fine but I really hope that ladies who don't think a real name is important reconsider. Our bodies are temples and our livelihood and it's not worth sacrificing safety. It's really time to stop punishing the many for the actions of a few

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Disagree.

A woman trying to provide for herself and her family who risks being killed in the course of doing her job has a lot more to lose than a client who is risking exposure by doing something he doesn't necessarily need to do.

I'm sure the working women of this state are resting assured that the frequency is so low...:rolleyes:

Final point:

I'm not saying(nor have I ever said) that ASP's must ask for personal info any more than I've said clients should give it. I agree with the idea that everyone involved must participate at their personal comfort level when it comes to personal info.

Maybe she should open a catering business and mitigate some of that danger.

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We don't use stage names as providers to hide from our clients. We use it to hide as best we can from those we need to keep our secret from.

And I can point you to someones real name, plastered on the front end of the NBL.

Now, he has been unemployed for the past 3 years. Probably lost his marriage.

All because he posted an honest review on a lady that he had seen several times over a number of years. A "well reviewed, p411 member, upstanding member of the hobby community".

I guess his need to keep his secret was not important.

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And I can point you to someones real name, plastered on the front end of the NBL.

Now, he has been unemployed for the past 3 years. Probably lost his marriage.

All because he posted an honest review on a lady that he had seen several times over a number of years. A "well reviewed, p411 member, upstanding member of the hobby community".

I guess his need to keep his secret was not important.

No denying that is unfortunate but if all gents actually took the time to post honest reviews this would not be as big of an issue.

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... Our bodies are temples and our livelihood and it's not worth sacrificing safety.

I suppose you tell that to all the coal miners, oil rig workers, iron workers, & soldiers you encounter (just to name a few). Many professions entail significant risks. If the risks are not to your tastes, find a different way to earn a living.

It's really time to stop punishing the many for the actions of a few

This is true for both sides of the transaction.

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If you have ever personally known a woman who was killed or beaten in the job of providing- it changes your standards pretty darn quick against what "risks" you are willing to take.

Men are afraid of a provider telling their wives. I am afraid of being murdered. Big difference.

.

Not only are the men afraid of a provider telling their wives. Men are also scared of being outed at their place of employment, their place residence, family and friends. Providers have been known to placed on trial for attempted murder. When you assume the a job of being an escort, you are assuming the risk that is involved as well. The only thing you can do is use whatever resources you have available to you to minimize risk.

Fact - Escorts murder clients too. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-escort-google-exec-heroin-death-20150519-story.html

Escort pleads guilty to involuntary manslaughter in Google exec's fatal [snip} overdose. Escort is sentenced to 6 years in prison in [snip} death of Silicon Valley e ecutive. Just one of the many examples.

Great answer, but you forgot

3. An unscrupulous provider can use this info to extort you.

4. A crazy, vindictive provider, if she gets pissed at you, can use this info to destroy your relationships, your career, and your life.

Now, I'll freely admit that there are unscrupulous and/or crazy, vindictive clients. This is why providers protect themselves by not revealing any personal information about themselves. Smart girls.

Guys should be just as smart.

I will also admit that the vast majority of providers, like the vast majority of clients, are reasonable people that you can trust.

The problem is, the providers do not come with labels. The only way to find out which girls are untrustworthy is by word of mouth.

^^^^ This^^^^

Oh please. All you're doing is breeding paranoia. I don't see how having every little detail of a client's life is going to save me in a life threatening situation. Ultimately, the biggest verification is my gut. If something seemed hinky, I wouldn't see that person.

+1 I fully agree with this statement from Kari, even if you have there full information, if someone wants to hurt you, they will do it.

Easy there cowboy. Are you suggesting that 50% to 75% of the provider's potential client base just stop buying? Might want to check with the providers on that, first.

As to being an extorted client, I probably come pretty close. You're awfully glib in your comments about other peoples real life concerns. Tell me again why that is?

The bottom line is, the identification dance is required because there are bad people on both sides. A good sized business (P411) exists because they have filled a niche which addresses the identification concerns of both parties. At least partially.

Not giving my personal identification to a provider, KEY***but instead showing my list of oks, is enough to get my foot in the door of, well, virtually every provider I've seen from there. In return for their trust in the system, I try desperately not to be an asshole during a session. This seems to have worked very well so far.

^^^ THIS ^^^ I encourage all my new clients to get a p411 account. Don't give any provider your personal information. I also encourage all escorts to not give out their information to anyone.

Edited by boink36
Forbidden topic removed.
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perhaps you're in the wrong profession. :cool:

I think this is what he meant.:P

Men are afraid of a provider telling their wives. I am afraid of being murdered ...BY MY WIFE.... Big difference.

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