How to Keep (or Lose) me as a P411 Customer

[-REDACTED-]

I would like to begin by saying, I like P411. I think it's useful as a screening tool, and I'll probably keep subscribing unless it goes up again. If the price increases again, at all, I will definitely drop it.

Why?

When I started using P411, it had three uses. Now it has one. Yet, it costs almost double what it did when I started. ($129 v $69)

Initially, I used it for three things:

1. Finding girls using the Advanced Search who are just my type.

2. Finding girls that aren't on EB for whatever reason, on the P411 Advert Board.

3. Screening and providing references more easily.

Now, the first two are gone. Obviously the ad board is gone, but even the Advanced Search is no longer useful. Here's why:

My Advanced Search that I've saved on the site specifies two things, age and body style. It is called "18-28 Skinny, Slender, Athletic", and it is supposed to show me girls that are 18-28 with those body styles. It used to work, or so I thought, maybe it never has.

I get that some girls don't list their age. But, I always thought that they'd only show up on the list if their real age (whether listed or not) was between 18 and 28. Yesterday, a girl named Coral showed up on this list. I contacted her, asking her age, expecting (from pictures) to be told that she's 27 or 28, and she replied that she's in her forties. It is unacceptable that she shows up on the Advanced Search for 18-28. If she doesn't list her age, she should not appear on any search that specifies age.

So, as you can see, P411 no longer has any value as a provider search tool, for me. I'll keep it as a screening tool, but, if it loses any more value, or goes up in cost by even just $1, I'm done and never coming back. Get it together, new P411 owner, whoever you are, or you'll lose all of your clients. P411 isn't that unique, and the second that Date Check is cheaper and in use by local escorts, or one of the others, I'm gone unless you add some value to your site, and soon.

At minimum, please fix the Advanced Search so that it actually works as represented, by which I mean, don't show me girls 29 and up if I search for 18-28. Including them anyway is a poorly thought out move. If they don't list their age, I don't want to see them, so why show them to me? Any girl that's ashamed to list her age is too old for me to book with, that is my personal preference. I use P411 Advanced Search instead of BP or RedBook or EscortPhotos because of that extra level of control over my searches. If it doesn't work, I won't be back to use it again.

Thanks for reading.

[REDACTED]

[frankenthaler91]

After poking around on p411, it appears that you can no longer see any information except name, location, measurements, photo, incall/outcall, and schedule. Unless you are signed in.

I'm not a lawyer, no have I stayed in a Holiday Inn recently. But it seems to me that if things are locked behind a closed door, no one knows what is happening behind the door.

[Bit Banger]

Many search engines use OR instead of AND when concatenating keywords. So in your example if the YL was 'athletic' or 'skinny' she would be a match regardless of age. What you're looking for is something like ([21-28] & (athletic|skinny|slender)). I'm not sure what syntax you should use for AND in the P411 search engine.

Perhaps you should contact P411 directly, instead of spewing on this board. I have always found the responsive, even if sometimes not helpful.

[fortysomething]

Never needed P411 for a pleasurable hobbying experience. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

[Bit Banger]

Never needed P411 for a pleasurable hobbying experience. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

I won't say that I have needed P411 to find a pleasurable experience.

But I will say that it is YAHT (yet another hobby tool) which has made search, contact, and references easier, particularly when away from my 'home market'.

While a snow bird last winter, 3 of 4 YL had no idea what TOB was; my presence here meant nothing to them. But my P411 OKays were all the references required. As an advertising venue, it is far superior to the Yellow Pages or the local rag you pick up at The Arcade. Also more reliable than BP.

If you hobby once/month it adds what, ~$10 to each session? Or think of it as being covered by one bad session when using other tools. I've seen guys quote 50:50 for BP; that's 6 bad sessions/year for the monthly hobbiest.

[-REDACTED-]

I use the Advanced Search page with the drop down boxes, I'm not typing any "ands" or "ors" anywhere. Click Advanced Search, use the Age drop downs for 18 and 28 and then multi-select Skinny, Slender, and Athletic. Click Search. Theoretically, a 41 year old should not show up. Yet she does.

I'm not interested in learning a bunch of jargon and nonsense. Their search page should work as represented. Providers Age: From 18 to 28 should mean ONLY SHOW PROVIDERS BETWEEN 18 AND 28. Not, throw in a 41 year old because she's slender. That's not what the search function advertises.

[dj278]

;393365']I'm not typing any "ands" or "ors" anywhere.

Sounds like a software bug to me. Your search criteria should act like filters. I don't think the query uses OR conditions, otherwise you would get even more bad results. They just have to fix it to filter out the No Answer values for the chosen criteria.

[N6_in_the_village]

;393349']

I get that some girls don't list their age. But, I always thought that they'd only show up on the list if their real age (whether listed or not) was between 18 and 28. Yesterday, a girl named Coral showed up on this list. I contacted her, asking her age, expecting (from pictures) to be told that she's 27 or 28, and she replied that she's in her forties. It is unacceptable that she shows up on the Advanced Search for 18-28.

[REDACTED]

I can add to that - Coral's profile shows her age as "No Answer". However, when using the Advanced Search and specifying the state as Colorado and the age one year at a time (30 to 30, 29 to 29, and so on), Coral shows up in a search of 27 year olds. Not 25, not 26, not 28, only 27 years old.

I presume that a provider can list her age as "No Answer" in her profile and still enter an age for the P411 database, that will allow the provider to be found in age-specific searches by P411 members. I also presume there isn't a strong "enforcement mechanism" to force a provider to enter her real age to the year in the P411 database.

I think the P411 Advanced Search is useful in spite of the fact that some providers are not fully honest about their personal description (on P411 or any other advertising medium).

[N6_in_the_village]

See my other post - in my opinion, this is no software bug, this is a provider bug!

My tentative conclusions from the facts are:

* the particular provider (that we are discussing) entered her age as "No Answer" in her profile, but entered her age as "27" in the P411 database.

* this provider will be found in the following age-specific Advanced Searches (for example): 22-27, 25-29, 18-30, 27-27.

* this provider admits (in phone conversation) that her real age is over 40

(there you have it)

[-REDACTED-]

I can add to that - Coral's profile shows her age as "No Answer". However, when using the Advanced Search and specifying the state as Colorado and the age one year at a time (30 to 30, 29 to 29, and so on), Coral shows up in a search of 27 year olds. Not 25, not 26, not 28, only 27 years old.

I presume that a provider can list her age as "No Answer" in her profile and still enter an age for the P411 database, that will allow the provider to be found in age-specific searches by P411 members. I also presume there isn't a strong "enforcement mechanism" to force a provider to enter her real age to the year in the P411 database.

I think the P411 Advanced Search is useful in spite of the fact that some providers are not fully honest about their personal description (on P411 or any other advertising medium).

Yes, I've noticed that also. I didn't try it here with Coral, but I've noticed previously the ability to determine a provider's age with several searches like you mention.

It is concerning that it seems that P411 doesn't actually verify their age, and it makes me see much less value in P411 overall. It's still a good screening tool, but, it's represented as though they verified these girls' ages.

I have to wonder what this post by The Oxymoron in another recent thread even means, in light of this all:

A new provider on P411 needs to have a good review posted by an established review (5 or more previous, unrelated reviews) or have a P411 BasicPlus5+ client member to vouch her in.

They are also required to submit age verification (identification) images.

Apparently "age verification images" are not sufficient for age verification. The saddest part of this is that I determined her real age by simply texting her, she didn't lie to me. Why is she lying to P411? Why is she 27 there but "in her early 40's" on her own website?

P411 has some explaining to do. This is what my next renewal hinges on, how they explain this and how they fix it.

[-REDACTED-]

Yes, and the real question becomes, why is P411 willingly misrepresenting the age of a provider that says on her own website that she is over 40? I can't be the first person to notice this. Did anyone who entered her information into the P411 database actually go look at her website? Would appear not. If they don't even verify providers to that level, what use is it, really, as an advertising platform? Just call it a client screening service and do away with the provider section, it's useless as it exists right now.

[-REDACTED-]

At minimum, I think I'd like to see this provider get a temporary ban, because lying about one's age is one thing, but taking 14 years off of your age on the "legit" site (P411) while leaving your age as 41 on much less legit sites, seems like it should be a break of whatever contract she agreed to when she signed up. If she was 31, that would be different. 41, listed as 27, that's a problem. I may as well trust the ages listed on BP for how accurate P411 appears to be in that regard.

[Guest]

;393372'] Just call it a client screening service and do away with the provider section' date=' it's useless as it exists right now.[/quote']

You found one woman who lies about her age and it makes the whole thing useless?

I think that's overstating it, but I do wish women would use their real age, or something very close to it. I might be unusual, but sometimes I want to find a provider who's a little older than average. I find I can talk to them more easily and feel more comfortable more quickly. If you take 10 years off of your age, I may pass over someone who would have been perfect.

Variety is part of the fun for me, so accurate information is important. I have sought out providers of different ages and body types because I wanted to try something new. And sometimes I've been surprised by what I do and don't respond to.

It's not always the case, but I assume some things when looking at an ad. She is probably 5 years older than she says and the pics make her look as good as she's ever looked. It's all part of the fun. If they banned every provider who lied about her age, I suspect there wouldn't be many left. LOL If you're expecting this to be like ordering a pizza, you're probably playing the wrong game. The only time you know exactly what you're getting is when you see someone you've seen before. The rest of the time... hey, is pizza ever bad?

[-REDACTED-]

You found one woman who lies about her age and it makes the whole thing useless?

Well, the use of P411 right now for me is two-fold.

1. Make my life easier as far as finding real girls and proving to them I'm real.

2. Find girls I'm into.

That second one is pretty much gone if a girl who is 41 can tell P411 that she's 27 while her own website says "early 40s" and P411 doesn't notice the discrepancy. Sounds like they don't really do anything at all to verify these girls if they don't at least visit their websites or look at any of their prior ads on other internet sites. (Or how about, call pretending to be a client and ask her for her age, that's all it took for me).

So, is P411 useless? No, number 1 on that list is still a good use. But, for number 2, finding girls I'm into, I think this rendered it mostly useless. Nobody's on P411 that isn't elsewhere, and if their age is just as phony on P411 as it is anywhere else, I may as well just not search on P411, because the platform otherwise isn't breathtaking (three photos maximum?).

[Bit Banger]

;393365']... Their search page should work as represented. Providers Age: From 18 to 28 should mean ONLY SHOW PROVIDERS BETWEEN 18 AND 28. Not' date=' throw in a 41 year old because she's slender. That's not what the search function advertises.[/quote']

So they got the OR correct in your multi-select but didn't process a NULL value correctly. I say again -

DID YOU CONTACT P411 DIRECTLY ABOUT THE PROBLEM?

Or are you just venting on a public board? If the latter, you don't really deserve a response from them. 😡

[-REDACTED-]

If they can't screen girls enough to figure out that a 41 year old who advertises as such isn't 27, they don't really deserve a correspondence from me. They claim to verify girls, they clearly don't, I finally noticed. They can respond or not respond, it doesn't matter, it's how they fix the problem that will keep or lose me.

I'll run the search again two weeks from now, and if Coral still shows up, I will no longer recommend P411 to people and I will have to really consider the value of the screening ease of P411 before I renew, because that's the only service they have that interests me anymore.

[Bit Banger]

;393387']... They claim to verify girls' date=' they clearly don't, I finally noticed. ...[/quote']

According to Gina in another thread, they take steps to verify that new gals are legitimate providers. They check their age for legality (i.e. Is the YL of legal age?). P411 does not claim to validate the content of the YL's webpage/ad. Think about the size of that task (constantly monitoring the ad content), and about the dues increase required to support the effort.

The recent reduction in service (elimination of the Ad Board) represents a similar trade-off. A few rotten apples spoiled it for the rest of us (M&F alike). Yet P411 is working on an alternative way to indicate current availability.

If you have a problem with their service and refuse to follow channels to address the problem, why should you expect any improvement in the service? I have found that they(P411 management) are responsive to suggestions when politely tendered through the appropriate channels.

If you don't like the service, then don't use it. Bitching about it here serves no purpose other than venting your spleen.

[The Oxymoron]

Thanks, Bit.

As he said, we verify that the provider appears to be legitimate, and we require providers to submit documentation that proves that they are of legal age. We do not ever police the accuracy of their advertisements, that is left for reviews.

I'll agree the Advanced Search option could use some work, and we plan on working through that area of the site sometime this year. First order of business is to get the Available Now board working though.

[-REDACTED-]

Bitching about it here serves no purpose other than venting your spleen.

It serves the purpose of allowing others to see the discrepancy I discovered, regarding Coral, and verify it themselves, as happened. It serves a purpose, and that purpose is being fulfilled. Others are being informed, and getting an opportunity to reply.

I don't work for P411, they don't sign checks to me. It's not my job to tell them when their own service isn't working, when it seems to have been designed to not work. They know. If they don't know, it's because they don't bother making sure their own system works. I discovered this accidentally, yes, but easily. If I were an Admin, I guarantee you I'd have noticed this years ago. I'm interested in 5% of the girls on P411, so it took a while for me to notice.

They imply an age verification. They don't say it's just to determine Age of Majority, not on any page during my sign-up process anyway. If you put a sign on a car that say's $5,000, and I give you $5,000, and you hand me the sign and say "congratulations, you now own a $5,000 sign" and drive away in the car, that's misrepresentation. Yes, the sign didn't say "for this car" on it, but, it's implied. Implied representation is a key legal issue, one that many people lose big on. They imply that there is an age verification, and they were unable to determine that a 41 year old wasn't 27. That's a major failure.

I stand by the thread, it's serving it's purpose. Whether or not it changes P411, I don't ultimately care. It's more about telling other P411 clients that this is happening. If it were a website error, there would be indications of such (random code showing up, searches taking longer than usual, etc.). There are no other indications, it appears to work fine, it's just designed such that girls that are in their 40's can claim to be in their 20's and nobody notices or cares.

To paraphrase your recommendation to me about P411, if you don't want to read this thread, don't. Have a good day.

[dj278]

;393397']it seems to have been designed to not work.

In more than 25 years in IT I have never heard of an application designed not to work. Sure, there are bad designs, but this implies intent.

;393397']If it were a website error' date=' there would be indications of such (random code showing up, searches taking longer than usual, etc.). [/quote']

This is so untrue, I wouldn't know where to start.

There really is not enough evidence to try, convict, & sentence this "YL" IMHO.

[The Oxymoron]

If I were an Admin, I guarantee you I'd have noticed this years ago.

I guarantee you, that as Admin, I NEVER do searches for providers as though I were a client member and I have no clue if there is a problem in that area unless someone brings it to my attention.

It's a massive, extremely busy, site and we do the best we can. I'll be the first to admit it's not perfect in many areas and could use some work.

They imply that there is an age verification

Where did P411 ever imply anything like that? The only place we say anything about age verification is on the provider application, and it's clear that it's to verify they are the age of majority.

I'll agree that many people make many assumptions about the types of verification P411 does on both providers and clients, but I can assure you that we do not try to mislead anyone and are available to answer any questions anyone might have.

[Bit Banger]

In more than 25 years in IT I have never heard of an application designed not to work. ...

With my 25+ years in the iT industry I totally agree with the above statement.

System test engineers strive to exercise software prior to release, but with the millions of permutations to test there simply aren't enough resources. Hence Beta test releases and all that entails. The best test environment is thousands of customers tweaking the system in ways unimagined by the developers. Each addition to any system introduces more complexity and new bugs. Without customer input bugs remain undetected in the system.

As customers we must do our part to improve what can never be a perfect system.

[The Oxymoron]

System test engineers strive to exercise software prior to release, but with the millions of permutations to test there simply aren't enough resources. The best test environment is thousands of customers tweaking the system in ways unimagined by the developers. Each addition to any system introduces more complexity and new bugs. Without customer input bugs remain undetected in the system.

As customers we must do our part to improve what can never be a perfect system.

Exactly.

We really appreciate those who offer their input and assistance so that we can try to make the site work the best it possibly can.

Keeping in mind that I am but one uneducamated schmuck working with one computer genius who can somehow turn my jibberjabber into a site that we are all incredibly proud of. Warts and all.

We are happy to fix that which we know needs fixing, as time allows. Unfortunately, there are never enough hours in the day and we can never know all of the problems that need to be fixed, without you!

And, Bit... if I haven't told you that I love you in a strictly computer nerdy way, let me tell you now. I love you!! mwah!

[pitbull]

It sounds like it's time for you to get rid of P411 because they can't efficiently narrow down the hot, young hookers you're looking for. If only there were a better business bureau for this stuff, you could air your grievances and get some satisfaction. TOB is a poor substitute. I wish you luck on your mission to fuck young whores.

[Guest]

It sounds like it's time for you to get rid of P411 because they can't efficiently narrow down the hot, young hookers you're looking for. If only there were a better business bureau for this stuff, you could air your grievances and get some satisfaction. TOB is a poor substitute. I wish you luck on your mission to fuck young whores.

LOL Well said. Any experience that adds up to me walking into a room and fucking a woman I'd never met before can only be so bad. It may take me hundreds of women to find just the right one. But I'm willing to put in the effort.

[fortysomething]

I won't say that I have needed P411 to find a pleasurable experience.

But I will say that it is YAHT (yet another hobby tool) which has made search, contact, and references easier, particularly when away from my 'home market'.

While a snow bird last winter, 3 of 4 YL had no idea what TOB was; my presence here meant nothing to them. But my P411 OKays were all the references required. As an advertising venue, it is far superior to the Yellow Pages or the local rag you pick up at The Arcade. Also more reliable than BP.

If you hobby once/month it adds what, ~$10 to each session? Or think of it as being covered by one bad session when using other tools. I've seen guys quote 50:50 for BP; that's 6 bad sessions/year for the monthly hobbiest.

You have some good points there, my friend, and I think your situation merits a P411 membership. As for me, I stay local, and have a small cadre of established providers. Although I don't hobby frequently, they know me and I know them. No surprises, so far.

[Bit Banger]

As you say, in your situation (you see a small pool of known, local providers) a P411 membership doesn't make a lot of sense. Then again, you're not here bashing their service.

[pitbull]

LOL Well said. Any experience that adds up to me walking into a room and fucking a woman I'd never met before can only be so bad. It may take me hundreds of women to find just the right one. But I'm willing to put in the effort.

Your commitment to this vital research is admirable.

[N6_in_the_village]

Where did P411 ever imply anything like [age verification of provider ads]? The only place we say anything about age verification is on the provider application, and it's clear that it's to verify they are the age of majority.

[and from The Oxymoron's earlier message]

As he said, we verify that the provider appears to be legitimate, and we require providers to submit documentation that proves that they are of legal age. We do not ever police the accuracy of their advertisements, that is left for reviews.

Thanks for clearing that up in a straightforward way. I believe I saw some mention of "provider age verification" somewhere on the P411 site. Unfortunately I can't find that statement now . But it occurred to me when I saw it that "age verification" might mean, very specifically, requiring documentation that the provider is of legal age. Which is not the same as requiring documentation that the exact age in each provider ad (or that shows up in an age-specific Advanced Search) is accurate.

I'm keeping my P411 membership. I think that overall the site has value to clients, especially in simplifying the screening process and setting up that first meeting (when, of course, both client and provider are P411 members).

[DontEvenTrip]

;393349']

"..... I contacted her, asking her age, expecting (from pictures) to be told that she's 27 or 28, and she replied that she's in her forties."

[REDACTED]

So if I understand this correctly - you saw her pictures and from her pictures you expected her to say she was 27 or 28. So she apparently looks 27 or 28? What is the problem if she is 47 or 58 - if she can pull off 27 then all the power to her! I am confused at what your complaint is all about. Now on the other hand, if she is claiming to be 27 and in reality she looks nothing like her photos but rather appears to be 20 years older than advertised - that's different. But again, from reading your post that does not seem to be the case. ???