Dynamic Pricing

[Burt Reynolds]

What?s up with this consent changing rate? I noticed a few go from $100 for a half to $400 for an hour in the matter of seven hours.

Simple Economics - what makes your think if you have to run a $100 special, you would be any more successful at $400?

As a client with the ever-changing pricing model, I can just wait for tomorrow for a better deal.

[irisheyes]

I's agrees. Thought about putting together a little timeline showing 20yrs to now.

[HappyHarryHardon]

Dude didn't you know that for a few hours a day a girls shit stops stinking and her pussy turns to gold.

If it bothers you that much, call her when her rates are low or move on.

[Crazy Horse]

I's agrees. Thought about putting together a little timeline showing 20yrs to now.

Please do. It would be educational and enough of us have been around for that long we'd be able to confirm or not if you were on the money.(pun intended)

I've kind of wondered about the rising prices in the profession far out stripping that of inflation in general. Much like the higher education or health care parts of the economy there is no obvious logical explanation; at least obvious to us non number crunchers. Any economic majors out there want to take a stab at it.

Supply certainly seems to be steady if not increasing because of the internet. The ease of using the internet also makes it easier to join the demand side of the equation. There's always a limit there on how many can be comfortable with law breaking and/or philandering for both sides. So the ratio of supply and demand remains relatively the same.

There will of course be those wine snobs willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a bottle because of some subtle taste they think they perceive whereas us majority of non wine snobs can't tell the difference between that bottle and one we've bought for $5. It's that wine snobbery that partly screws up the market for the rest of us.

Oh no...another rate thread...

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[irisheyes]

Couldn't agree with you more Crazy Horse, and Harry, we just find it interesting which isn't something "bad" to look at. I personally do move on if I have an issue with someone's asking price and leave it at that, but from those that have the experience of this venture 20yrs ago to where it's at now, and even when talking about rates.........I'd just love to hear what they would have to say, think, or feel.

[Bit Banger]

My recollection is that -

30 years ago (print ad days):

An AVERAGE one-shot (but not rushed) session was costing $125-150.

A quickie car date was costing $20.

15 years ago (beginning of online ads):

A VERY GOOD, but still generally one-shot, hour was costing $175-200.

AMP were charging $200 for an FS session.

A YL who was charging $200-250 15 years ago is now charging $4-500/hr.

Today:

Check the current rates on EB or other boards

Based on this, it's my impression that prices have been flat, NOT keeping up with inflation, and, like in other markets, have been held down by "automation". I suspect that this is, in part, due to the influx of independent contractors created by the ease of market entry.

[pitbull]

My recollection is that -

30 years ago (print ad days):

An AVERAGE one-shot (but not rushed) session was costing $125-150.

A quickie car date was costing $20.

15 years ago (beginning of online ads):

A VERY GOOD, but still generally one-shot, hour was costing $175-200.

AMP were charging $200 for an FS session.

A YL who was charging $200-250 15 years ago is now charging $4-500/hr.

Today:

Check the current rates on EB or other boards

Based on this, it's my impression that prices have been flat, NOT keeping up with inflation, and, like in other markets, have been held down by "automation". I suspect that this is, in part, due to the influx of independent contractors created by the ease of market entry.

Really interesting. If 30 years ago, the rate truly was 125-150, and I certainly believe the esteemed Bit, he is dead-on correct about the "flat" and not keeping up with inflation theory.

However, I think the Internet has fundamentally skewed various aspects of the economic equation. Back in "the day," certain ladies had to be found, and it was not easy (probably) to find them. The Internet has made it so easy for countless ladies to flood the market, it has kept price down. Then again, that might be totally incorrect. Just a thought.

Another rate thread!? Bring it on.

[Crazy Horse]

My recollection is that -

30 years ago (print ad days):

An AVERAGE one-shot (but not rushed) session was costing $125-150.

A quickie car date was costing $20.

15 years ago (beginning of online ads):

A VERY GOOD, but still generally one-shot, hour was costing $175-200.

AMP were charging $200 for an FS session.

A YL who was charging $200-250 15 years ago is now charging $4-500/hr.

Today:

Check the current rates on EB or other boards

Based on this, it's my impression that prices have been flat, NOT keeping up with inflation, and, like in other markets, have been held down by "automation". I suspect that this is, in part, due to the influx of independent contractors created by the ease of market entry.

A 100% increase in rates over 15yrs is NOT keeping up with inflation??? Although I can think of a few things that have risen in price that quickly for the vast majority of consumer products that's not the case. Add to that the fact that most of that rise has been in the last 5yrs; 250 to 300 to now 400 for top self providers one wonders...why?

Of course our recollections would vary due to slightly different times and locations but I never paid more than 150 off an Oyster ad well into the late 90's and often times much less than that. My first paid for sex in Denver in the mid '70s was for $50.

It wasn't until I started playing with the internet in '99 that 200hr became commonplace. Remember that's what all the Sowet grey bar girls charged and more than a few of them were top self GFE not just a one shot and done deal.

It was the Sowet grey bar girls that attempted the first blatant price fixing I can recall when all of a sudden all of them went from 200 to 250 at the urgings of Cheyenne and RT in part to pay for RT's new policy of charging the ladies to advertise.

I think I'll stand by my original analysis. Other than the fact that there are foolish snobs willing to pay the price...which is of course a good enough reason and kudos to the ladies for finding these fools...there is no justification for the rise in rates we've seen in the profession.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Edited January 21, 2015 by Crazy Horse
addition

[Bit Banger]

...

However, I think the Internet has fundamentally skewed various aspects of the economic equation. Back in "the day," certain ladies had to be found, and it was not easy (probably) to find them. The Internet has made it so easy for countless ladies to flood the market, it has kept price down. Then again, that might be totally incorrect.

Oh, it was easy enough to find the YL. Just look in the Yellow Pages, DP or RMN classifieds, WestWord, or RM Oyster, with results comparable to BP searches of today. Most of these advertising venues have disappeared, for one reason or another. But use of these venues was more suited to 'managed' providers than independent contractors. I agree, online advertising has led to a supply increase.

...

Another rate thread!? Bring it on.

Yes, another rate thread. Let'so see if we can keep it to an analysis of market trends.

[Crazy Horse]

Yes, another rate thread. Let'so see if we can keep it to an analysis of market trends.

Yes that would be nice if we could keep it so.

BTW ladies it's nothing personal. As a consumer I get pissed off every time I buy a loaf of bread or gallon of milk. The problem there is the commodities market. When wheat gets bought and sold a dozen times between planting and baking each time someone skimming profits off the top and is it any wonder we get robbed at the store. As yet though I don't believe that ASP services are being traded on the commodities exchange.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[Lucy Kitten]

Please do. It would be educational and enough of us have been around for that long we'd be able to confirm or not if you were on the money.(pun intended)

I've kind of wondered about the rising prices in the profession far out stripping that of inflation in general. Much like the higher education or health care parts of the economy there is no obvious logical explanation; at least obvious to us non number crunchers. Any economic majors out there want to take a stab at it.

Supply certainly seems to be steady if not increasing because of the internet. The ease of using the internet also makes it easier to join the demand side of the equation. There's always a limit there on how many can be comfortable with law breaking and/or philandering for both sides. So the ratio of supply and demand remains relatively the same.

There will of course be those wine snobs willing to pay hundreds of dollars for a bottle because of some subtle taste they think they perceive whereas us majority of non wine snobs can't tell the difference between that bottle and one we've bought for $5. It's that wine snobbery that partly screws up the market for the rest of us.

Oh no...another rate thread...

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

Somewhat of a rate thread I would guess. Escort Economics is more I think what it would be.

I have an aunt and uncle that own a liquor store and their specialty is wine, they teach classes on how to find the best wine on any budget. There are wine snobs and wine connoisseurs, one will buy based on price and the other on knowledge.

[fork]

It wasn't until I started playing with the internet in '99 that 200hr became commonplace.

[...]there is no justification for the rise in rates we've seen in the profession.

200 hr is still commonplace, and it's now 15 years later. Maybe that used to be the high-end and now it's the low-end?

Sure EB averages are closer to 300, and there are always girls who will charge more, but it's rare that I pay more than 200 for an hour. Should we turn this into a BP vs. EB thread?

[Bit Banger]

200 hr is still commonplace, and it's now 15 years later. ...

This was my point - the reason I said the market has been flat.

Should we turn this into a BP vs. EB thread?

NO! Please don't.

[Crazy Horse]

200 hr is still commonplace, and it's now 15 years later. Maybe that used to be the high-end and now it's the low-end?

Sure EB averages are closer to 300, and there are always girls who will charge more, but it's rare that I pay more than 200 for an hour. Should we turn this into a BP vs. EB thread?

Well yes, to have a common reference point we are talking top self providers and then from there. However there are still top self providers that have been charging 250 for a decade or more and haven't raised their rates although many others have. Just recently I visited a provider and had a great time, a week or so later she raised her rates from 250 to 350; although I might have seen her at the higher rate as I do find the lady fascinating it would have taken a deal of consideration as to if it was worth it.

BP vs EB/P411 or as I've put it before a non union shop vs a union shop or to put it another way the free market vs a price fixing industrial combine. Pick which example works best for you or make one up yourself.

...Happy Hobbying...

...Crazy Horse...

[joeblowblow22]

there is one ASP in Boulder who has gone up 90% over the last 4 weeks. The Argentinan Peso is the only thing with a higher inflation rate.

[Burt Reynolds]

Let's apply basic economics principles to value a session based on paying the provider.

Let's start by going off the average pay per hours in the US

$24.54

Source: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t19.htm

Then take 40 hours a week multiplied by 52 weeks

40 x 52 = 2,080 hours

Take the $24.54 an hour multiplied by 2,080 hours

24.54 x 2080 = $51,043.20

Let?s say you have two sessions a day 5 days a week for 3 weeks a month (40 weeks / 200 days a year)? something like 400 sessions a year and divide that into the total average income for the year we just figured out ($51,043.20)

$51,043.20 / 400 = $127.61 per session based on this model.

Since we all hear the chatter about how slow it is let's have some fun with these numbers.

Keeping the same 200 day work year as the module above lets figure out what it take to make the US average income of $51,043.20!

4 sessions per day / 20 per week / 800 sessions per year = $62.80 per session

3 sessions per day / 15 per week / 600 sessions per year = $85.07 per session

2 sessions per day / 10 per week / 400 sessions per year = $127.61 per session

1 sessions per day / 5 per week / 200 sessions per year = $255.22 per session

0.5 sessions per day / 2.5 per week / 100 sessions per year = $510.43 per session

0.25 sessions per day / 1.25 per week / 50 sessions per year = $1,020.86 per session

Since most girls on average have 1 and 2 sessions per day, the earning needs to be around $191.41 per session.

Let have some more fun and round it to $200.00 per session (reasonable rate)

$200.00 - $191.41 = $8.59

leaving around

$8.59 x 300 session = $2,577.00 for supplies and whatnot.

[oldguysrule45]

Piss and moan. Piss and moan. There is a time and place to discuss pricing for any service or commodity. Directly with the purveyor, not on an open board. You might be surprised what can be accomplished one on one.

All the better for me!

[2small]

Hey if the guy wants to talk rates let him, you can go to another thread>

[Boardmember]

...

15 years ago (beginning of online ads):

...A YL who was charging $200-250 15 years ago is now charging $4-500/hr.

...

Based on this, it's my impression that prices have been flat, NOT keeping up with inflation.....

Charging $200 in 2000 (15 years ago) and keeping up with inflation means charging $275 today.

(source: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=200&year1=2000&year2=2014)

For me, the vast majority of providers charging $300/hr are excellent. If $200/hr was that quality in 2000, then they are in line (slightly above) the rate of inflation over that time span.

[Boardmember]

>>employees on private nonfarm payrolls

I know your post was fun with numbers. But Since most providers are literally independent contractors, there are lot of non-session work hours that need to be accounted for along with overhead, taxes and such for to have a better understanding of why they -- theoretically -- charge what they charge.

I'm in field with similar economic dynamics and when someone looking to enter it asks about what to charge, my stock answer is to tell them decide what you want to take home annually, then double that to get the total billing amount you will have generate. (Usually they'll want to start out making $75K which becomes $150K to account for all the overhead.)

Now make a serious estimate how many hours you'll be able to bill in a year. They always think 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a year. That is an impossibly high number of hours. So, start with 15 billable hours a week. Divide that annual amount by the potential billable hours and you get the hourly rate...in this case about $200/hr. (Which is not outrageous, but fairly high for a someone new. Half is reasonable, and $150 is closer after a few years experience.)

Fun with numbers....

Edited January 22, 2015 by MissingLink
formatting

[Bit Banger]

50 weeks/year was the figure we used to use for base billing rate. That accounts for Federal holidays. Vacation & sick days became part of overhead. As a DP consultant on annual contract, billing rates were about 2.4Xsalary. Short term contracts had higher rates because of the increased overhead(sales, legal, accounting, etc.).

Not to get too deep into politics, but watching SOTU last night I thought it would be simple to give every full-time worker 5 sick days. Just give them a 2% pay cut at the same time. That would be the (almost) cost neutral solution.

[Burt Reynolds]

You have to disregard most the overhead since it's more of a personal choice. if you only outcall all you could claim is gas a maintenance or if you in call from your residence you claim little to nothing since you live there, or if you travel... that's a personal choice and you can't always push the unique overhead on to the client, providers with a good client base advertise less than one with little to no repeat.

Same model spending $10 a day in gas to outcall is $2,000/yr... or if you paid $1,200/mo for your incall you could apply the same $2k to your housing and save 7.2% or $200/mo... basically you can wash any reasonable overhead.

"But Burt; my hair, nail, and clothing?!?!?"

If you see two clients a day for two hours total, it works out to 14.4% of the time of the standard 2,080 hour work year or 0.68% of time you enjoy / use it assuming your active 12 hours a day.

For arguments sake if you spend $1,000/mo on hair, nails and clothing you could only take $144 of it as overheard at 14.4%

All fun aside; $150 - $200 is reasonable and as a private contractor to take home $51k you would have to gross around $75k

Working as a private contractor your personal and business moneys get mixed, best rule of thumb is to not exceed 15% of your gross for anything you might want to claim as overhead, grey area or not, with the $200 model it basically works out to $4,000/mo with around $500/mo for overhead.

[Bit Banger]

A recent visit to an 1890s AZ gold camp (tourist trap) provided the following:

• A typical miner earned $3/day. This was a 12hr day drilling, blasting, or mucking in a 4'x6' shaft underground.
  
• The hoist/lift operator earned $5/day. It was a hanging offense to talk to him while he was on the job.
  
• The population of the town was about 1500, but only about 20 women.
  
• An evening at Lulu's (the brothel) cost $10. This got you a bath, the company of a YL, and a steak dinner w/drinks & music.
  
• You were met at the door by the bouncer, who screened you prior to entry.
  
• Lulu got half, the YL got the other half.
  

[Guest]

Usually payable in gold or silver coin. Back in 1890, a 20-dollar gold piece or a Silver Dollar each contained (slightly less than) an ounce of gold or silver. The ratios are skewed today, I personally believe silver is undervalued and I am buying as much as I can. At today's exchange rates:

A recent visit to an 1890s AZ gold camp (tourist trap) provided the following:

• A typical miner earned $3/day. This was a 12hr day drilling, blasting, or mucking in a 4'x6' shaft underground. $54 if paid in silver. $192 if paid in gold
  
• The hoist/lift operator earned $5/day. It was a hanging offense to talk to him while he was on the job. $90 if paid in silver, $320 if paid in gold
  
• The population of the town was about 1500, but only about 20 women.
  
• An evening at Lulu's (the brothel) cost $10. This got you a bath, the company of a YL, and a steak dinner w/drinks & music. $180 if paid in silver, $640 if paid in gold
  
• You were met at the door by the bouncer, who screened you prior to entry.
  
• Lulu got half, the YL got the other half.
  

Note that, in silver, at 10 hours a day our miner gent was making less than minimum wage. But with gold he's making about 19 an hour, or about $39,000 a year at today's rates. This is probably a more accurate exchange rate.

So, an overnight, WITH a steak dinner, was about half an ounce of gold. $640 today. Most ladies are asking at least twice that today.

I've got an 1890's 20 dollar gold piece in my safe. (many, actually) Are there any "sportin' ladies" in the audience who would consider a trade? My 20 dollar piece for a night of company and a home-cooked meal? Or 10 silver dollars for an hour?

[Jez UaBriain]

What?s up with this consent changing rate? I noticed a few go from $100 for a half to $400 for an hour in the matter of seven hours.

Simple Economics - what makes your think if you have to run a $100 special, you would be any more successful at $400?

As a client with the ever-changing pricing model, I can just wait for tomorrow for a better deal.

Inflation in the pussy market.

Typically, Denver market easily supports the 200-250 range. Anything over that puts many guys out of the ballpark. I would think their is very little difference between 200 dollar pussy and 400 dollar pussy.

[MAG]

I would think their is very little difference between 200 dollar pussy and 400 dollar pussy.

And you would be correct.

[Guest]

Inflation in the pussy market.

Typically, Denver market easily supports the 200-250 range. Anything over that puts many guys out of the ballpark. I would think their is very little difference between 200 dollar pussy and 400 dollar pussy.

I have discovered that EVERY woman is different from the last. I would agree that 400 dollar pussy is not BETTER than 200 dollar pussy. But it will be different.

One of the advantages of this activity is that you get to experience a lot of different women. It's fun. Every lady has a different way of doing things, a different way of moving, talking, responding, a different feel. I love it.

So, I don't quibble about price. I just pay what the lady wants. Not because 400 is better than 200, or vice-versa, but simply because it is what the lady wants.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

If you are only in it for the pushy you are probably correct. But it is all the other things that come with the higher rates.

[MAG]

If you are only in it for the pushy you are probably correct. But it is all the other things that come with the higher rates.

Well, you may as well elaborate.

Please tell us, what makes EVERY $400 lay better than ANY $200 lay?

[Denguy40]

I know a gal that was charging $150 Hhr. She averaged 3 clients a day. That's 9k a month. 100k+ a year. She travels a lot and enjoys life. Mind you she had a private incall so her incall costs were much less than ladies using a hotel or sharing a condo.