has the board become less civil?

[MrReindeer-9515]

Telling people to read reviews and research is pointing them in the right direction and avoids a million posts that will get us banned for shilling.

It's not shilling when someone poses a legitimate request for information, and someone else replies; what you were doing was full on shilling.

I would go a step further and say that it is "teaching them to fish."

And I would walk it two steps back and say: part of the stated purpose of this board is providing information regarding the Adult Service Industry, and the 411's distasteful as they may be to some, are part of that purpose. It's not anybody's responsibility to provide any information, but I submit that they already seem to know how to fish, but fortunately(for them) opinions like yours are not the only ones in this pond.

[MAG]

I would go a step further and say that it is "teaching them to fish."

Agreed. I would add that the purpose of this board is SHARING information -- when I see several consecutive 411 posts, from one time posters, it's usually easy to tell that they haven't bothered to look for information that has already been shared. In abundance.

It would be like calling someone to get the definition of a word. It would take less time to look it up.

Most 411's aren't about asking for info, per se, they're just johns being lazy.

[Nusa]

Agreed. I would add that the purpose of this board is SHARING information -- when I see several consecutive 411 posts, from one time posters, it's usually easy to tell that they haven't bothered to look for information that has already been shared. In abundance.

It would be like calling someone to get the definition of a word. It would take less time to look it up.

Most 411's aren't about asking for info, per se, they're just johns being lazy.

You assume with this comment that every user that comes onto the board is proficient at doing 411 searches from the first day they come onto the board. Consider that some of them aren't being lazy, they don't know what to do, so they ask the board.

[Guest Mr. X]

I enjoy the 411's other people post. Often its a lady I wasn't aware of and I like what I see. Its like a filter to reduce the advertising overload.

Seems to me its the newer members that post the 411's and the older members that complain about them. Maybe I'll be a complainer in the future, who knows.

[gr8owl]

Agreed. I would add that the purpose of this board is SHARING information -- when I see several consecutive 411 posts, from one time posters, it's usually easy to tell that they haven't bothered to look for information that has already been shared. In abundance.

I agree with you (sure sign of the apocalypse!). Perhaps I have missed it, but when have YOU shared information? If the 411's bother you, ignore them and move on. When I first got to this board I valued greatly those who took the time to answer "stupid" questions and point me the right direction for answers (and still appreciate them - hope they know who they are:)) without being wise asses or douches about it. So ...... I try to offer assistance however I can especially to newbies. It is no big deal. Try it you might like it and it might improve your dour outlook.

[MAG]

You assume with this comment that every user that comes onto the board is proficient at doing 411 searches from the first day they come onto the board. Consider that some of them aren't being lazy, they don't know what to do, so they ask the board.

It takes a certain amount of intelligence and effort to successfully register for an account. The words "review database" are prominently displayed.

Some of the 411 requests ARE indeed helpful in and of themselves. I appreciate a request that says "I searched the reviews & googled the phone #, and tineye showed nothing -- can anyone help". Those 411's often become searchable threads that others can use in the future.

One type of 411 I take exception to is "411 please can anyone recommend a blond spinner". or worse, "who gives the best UTF?" The answer to the first can easily be found in the reviews, and the the second is steeped in personal preference and YMMV.

It's usually obvious when someone has at least tried to find information on their own. They often don't know the finer points of research techniques, but there is one member here (I forget his name) who is the KING of research and is always helpful to those folks.

So, it's not the 411's that irritate. It's the laziness. At least TRY before you ask.

[Lucy Kitten]

It takes a certain amount of intelligence and effort to successfully register for an account. The words "review database" are prominently displayed.

Some of the 411 requests ARE indeed helpful in and of themselves. I appreciate a request that says "I searched the reviews & googled the phone #, and tineye showed nothing -- can anyone help". Those 411's often become searchable threads that others can use in the future.

One type of 411 I take exception to is "411 please can anyone recommend a blond spinner". or worse, "who gives the best UTF?" The answer to the first can easily be found in the reviews, and the the second is steeped in personal preference and YMMV.

It's usually obvious when someone has at least tried to find information on their own. They often don't know the finer points of research techniques, but there is one member here (I forget his name) who is the KING of research and is always helpful to those folks.

So, it's not the 411's that irritate. It's the laziness. At least TRY before you ask.

There is zero indication that you actually participate in the hobby, why do you care so much about something you seemingly contribute nothing to? You can assume that my question is snark all you want but it's a legitimate question.

Replying to 411s with a hostile tone while not adding any helpful information is one of the reasons threads like this get started. It discourages guys from asking legitimate questions. There are plenty of guys that have been known to help out on 411s regardless of how "lazy" the question is.

BTW I think the King of research whose name you forgot is the poster you quoted, Nusa.

[MAG]

You can assume that my question is snark all you want but it's a legitimate question.

Leave it to you to take a thoughtful post and turn it into drama.

You can snark all you want - it won't change my opinion or approach.

[MrReindeer-9515]

There is zero indication that you actually participate in the hobby, why do you care so much about something you seemingly contribute nothing to? You can assume that my question is snark all you want but it's a legitimate question.

Replying to 411s with a hostile tone while not adding any helpful information is one of the reasons threads like this get started. It discourages guys from asking legitimate questions. There are plenty of guys that have been known to help out on 411s regardless of how "lazy" the question is.

BTW I think the King of research whose name you forgot is the poster you quoted, Nusa.

Well said, the only thing I would add:

Nusa hasn't been doing the 411's a whole lot for a while now; the current Research Guru is mrvegas63.

Edited May 9, 2014 by MrReindeer
Substituted 3 for 9

[Lucy Kitten]

Leave it to you to take a thoughtful post and turn it into drama.

You can snark all you want - it won't change my opinion or approach.

It's not drama, Reindeer and gr8owl brought up the same point and you continually ignore it. You still ignore the fact that I asked you a question.

What validity do your "thoughtful" posts have if you have no credibility to back them up? You are very vocal and very opinionated but you don't seem to actively participate so why should anyone take you seriously?

The truly thoughtful posts are the gents that reply to 411s with helpful information, not those that reply rude answers.

[auldguy]

I prefer to use the terms Provider or Lady when referring to the providers I have met in the hobby because 99% have been ladies. However political correctness seems to raise its ugly head all too often these days and things get complicated. I think more important than the term is the way it is used the emphasis put on it. I could make lady sound derogatory if I so chose.

It has become very easy to be offended, for example the Bolder Boulder has had protest from an LGBT group because the T-shits for runners say “Sea Level is for Sissies”. It is hard to believe that the folks organizing the race were intending to insult or harm someone. If you substitutes sissy with whip would you offend Popeye’s friend Wimpy? If you used Pansy would that offend women named Pansy or the flower industry? Way to easy to get feelings hurt or seem disrespectful when none is intended.

This discussion got me interested in the origin of the term Hooker, I always thought it was related to General Joe Hooker’s liberal attitude toward his men visiting brothels. However there appear to be other possible and maybe more likely origins:

Hooker(n) "prostitute," often traced to the disreputable morals of the Army of the Potomac (American Civil War) under the tenure of Gen. "Fighting Joe" Hooker (early 1863), and the word might have been popularized by this association at that time (though evidence is wanting). But it is reported to have been in use in North Carolina c.1845 ("f he comes by way of Norfolk he will find any number of pretty Hookers in the Brick row not far from French's hotel. Take my advice and touch nothing in the shape of a prostitute when you come through Raleigh, for in honest truth the clap is there of luxuriant growth." letter quoted in Norman E. Eliason, "Tarheel Talk," 1956).

One early theory traces it to Corlear's Hook, a section of New York City.

HOOKER. A resident of the Hook, i.e. a strumpet, a sailor's trull. So called from the number of houses of ill-fame frequented by sailors at the Hook (i.e. Corlear's Hook) in the city of New York. [John Russell Bartlett, "Dictionary of Americanisms," 1859]

Perhaps related to hooker "thief, pickpocket" (1560s), but most likely a reference to prostitutes hooking or snaring clients. Hook in the figurative sense of "that by which anyone is attracted or caught" is recorded from early 15c.; and hook (v.) in the figurative sense of "catch hold of and draw in" is attested from 1570s; in reference to "fishing" for a husband or a wife, it was in common use from c.1800. All of which makes the modern sense seem a natural step. Compare French accrocheuse, raccrocheuse, common slang term for "street-walker, prostitute," literally "hooker" of men.

The family name Hooker (attested from c.975 C.E.) would mean "maker of hooks," or else refer to an agricultural laborer who used a hook (compare Old English weodhoc "weed-hook").

[EuropeanMonger]

.

[Lucy Kitten]

I prefer to use the terms Provider or Lady when referring to the providers I have met in the hobby because 99% have been ladies. However political correctness seems to raise its ugly head all too often these days and things get complicated. I think more important than the term is the way it is used the emphasis put on it. I could make lady sound derogatory if I so chose.

It has become very easy to be offended, for example the Bolder Boulder has had protest from an LGBT group because the T-shits for runners say “Sea Level is for Sissies”. It is hard to believe that the folks organizing the race were intending to insult or harm someone. If you substitutes sissy with whip would you offend Popeye’s friend Wimpy? If you used Pansy would that offend women named Pansy or the flower industry? Way to easy to get feelings hurt or seem disrespectful when none is intended.

This discussion got me interested in the origin of the term Hooker, I always thought it was related to General Joe Hooker’s liberal attitude toward his men visiting brothels. However there appear to be other possible and maybe more likely origins:

Hooker(n) "prostitute," often traced to the disreputable morals of the Army of the Potomac (American Civil War) under the tenure of Gen. "Fighting Joe" Hooker (early 1863), and the word might have been popularized by this association at that time (though evidence is wanting). But it is reported to have been in use in North Carolina c.1845 ("f he comes by way of Norfolk he will find any number of pretty Hookers in the Brick row not far from French's hotel. Take my advice and touch nothing in the shape of a prostitute when you come through Raleigh, for in honest truth the clap is there of luxuriant growth." letter quoted in Norman E. Eliason, "Tarheel Talk," 1956).

One early theory traces it to Corlear's Hook, a section of New York City.

HOOKER. A resident of the Hook, i.e. a strumpet, a sailor's trull. So called from the number of houses of ill-fame frequented by sailors at the Hook (i.e. Corlear's Hook) in the city of New York. [John Russell Bartlett, "Dictionary of Americanisms," 1859]

Perhaps related to hooker "thief, pickpocket" (1560s), but most likely a reference to prostitutes hooking or snaring clients. Hook in the figurative sense of "that by which anyone is attracted or caught" is recorded from early 15c.; and hook (v.) in the figurative sense of "catch hold of and draw in" is attested from 1570s; in reference to "fishing" for a husband or a wife, it was in common use from c.1800. All of which makes the modern sense seem a natural step. Compare French accrocheuse, raccrocheuse, common slang term for "street-walker, prostitute," literally "hooker" of men.

The family name Hooker (attested from c.975 C.E.) would mean "maker of hooks," or else refer to an agricultural laborer who used a hook (compare Old English weodhoc "weed-hook").

It's not about sounding derogatory, it's about the reasoning behind the use of the word. I didn't wake up and decide that "hooker" was offensive, over time through reading, TV, movies and discussions boards I have seen it used a derogatory slang and that built my distaste. You could make the word lady seem offensive how? You could use it in a condescending way but you can't change the reason as to why we call women ladies. Hookers and ladies aren't often (if ever) synonyms.

"When they're alive they're escorts when they're dead they're just hookers" Is a quote from a popular adult cartoon and is one of the best examples I can give as to why I hate the word. I agree that the origin is interesting but has little to do with current day connotations of the word.

Take a survey that does not include the members of this board and ask them what sort of person hooker calls to mind, I guarantee it wont be anything like what the ladies around here are really like.

[Lucy Kitten]

As someone who has come and gone over the years, I can honestly say it seems less "friendly" now than ever but the players have changed too. Sure, you have a handful of "old-timers", both men and women, that comment but there is a lot of new blood here as well. But to think the board was ever "cordial" in most threads, I'd say it wasn't. It's been very high school cliquish since forever (and I've been hanging out here since 2002 or 2003 when Sowet started to go to shit).

I think the difference was that the previous administration clamped down on tomfoolery a lot quicker. That's not a criticism of the current staff, just an observation. But the board dynamics have changed a lot too. Significantly fewer people post and the board activity is way down then compared to 4-5 years ago. So what conversations we do have end up being a pissing match more often than not due to the lack of diversity of users.

Oh for the days of Donny and his weird as conspiracy and alien bullshit.

LOL you know it's not as much as it used to be when you miss Donny.

[Guest]

OK, well I'm sure most of you won't care or find this post annoying in some way, but here goes:

Many of us involved in the sex workers rights movement find the term hooker, or similar terms like prostitute, ho, etc. to be offensive because of the stigma that is attached to the term. As another commenter put it in this thread, the term hooker brings to mind a street walker on Colfax- and all the implications of drug problems, homelessness, disease and un-savoriness that comes with that. The backlash against the use of a word like hooker is both to combat that sort of stigma for all sex workers in general, but is also meant to say that street walkers should not have to carry the burden of that stigma.

To draw what may be a somewhat controversial comparison, using terms like hooker can be a bit like using the N word. If you are a sex worker, it can be empowering to use that term for yourself as you are "taking the word back," so to speak. However, if you're anyone else (clients included), it's not appropriate to use. It's not about "sugar coating." It's a human rights issue, and it's about bringing a level of awareness to this industry that it desperately deserves. The term sex worker is a favored term- provider, ASP, escort, companion, etc are also acceptable.

Of course, this is all just the current thinking in activist and academic circles surrounding this subject, so I'm sure it seems off-putting and elitist in a lot of ways. But those are the circles I run in, so that's where I'm reporting from.

[Guest Mr.Bubble]

........the term sex worker is a favored term- provider, ASP, escort, companion, etc are also acceptable.........

I have always avoided the word "whore." But I have in the past used the word "hooker" because I thought it was taken in friendly-jibe sort of way and that is the way it was intended. Plus, the word is a punchline of many golfing jokes.

I was not aware so many deemed it to be this offensive, so I will strive to temper my language. As to the word I prefer, it is "lady," as this is a constant reminder to me of the way any human female deserves to be treated.

[SD1958]

Thank you this was very well put it was what I was trying to get across with my original post. I also want to thank the other ladies who have contributed. As for the guys I can only think of a couple who refer to the clients as "johns" and only one lady who has gone out of her way to denigrate her clients. It just seems since we are all enjoying each other in the most intimate way we could treat each other with some respect.

[auldguy]

It just seems since we are all enjoying each other in the most intimate way we could treat each other with some respect.

Thumbs up.

[pfunk]

It just seems since we are all enjoying each other in the most intimate way we could treat each other with some respect.

Agreed auldguy, double thumbs up.

[EuropeanMonger]

.

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

Or pimps advertising.

[Happymon]

I don't believe so. It's very different from when I came on the scene, but not any less civil. Just about the time one jackass disappears, another one takes his or her place. Jackassery is not sexually determined. The Board today is dramatically narrower in scope and as a result I find it less entertaining. Part of my fun was logging in to find out the latest meltdown before it got erased or a knock/down drag out between an escort and bf/so/board member/pimp. There have been some epic stories played out here on this tiny stage.

I know the P411 standard response of "use search" sounds harsh, but jeezus h, if you got this far.....

And I will banish "hooker" from my vocabulary.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Happymon
add'l thought

[MAG]

I know the P411 standard response of "use search" sounds harsh, but jeezus h, if you got this far.....

This is a more concise way of saying what I tried to earlier, well done.

Another poster made a good point -- some of the 411's are very likely BP hookers or their pimps, trying to draw attention. Essentially advertisements.

Apparently some people don't like the answer "read the reviews". Those people are free to skip over those answers. It takes very little energy to ignore a post

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

One of the reason your special interest group like the vague words is that they look less descriptive in the press. A sex worker can be anything from a cam girl to a prostitute and anything in between like adult model, smfb girls, strippers, porn actors, etc. This board is for a subset of sex workers primarily hookers or destiny's more politically correct term fatherfuckers.

[Guest century2ride]

What? Are we done here?

It takes very little energy to ignore a post

Actually I 'disagree' - while it may seem like very little energy - it takes a lot of energy to NOT respond. You can read 'any post on this board' and someone will just chime in with a negative remark. Even the visiting ladies from out of state - what to do in Denver and someone has to shit on the post. They just ask a question of our favorite things to do - and what the hell? And the conversation about johns, whores, etc - well - whatever you want to call yourself - that is great (but don't be a dickhead about it)! I just enjoy a fine lady, a cigar and glass of single malt scotch or a fine wine! Maybe a dinner out! Love what follows! And as I think about it, this post (though not great and has been covered several times in the past) started off with one remark and it has taken several left turns all over the place. I think it might have ended up in Omaha?

Just saying - Every post pushes someone buttons and they can't wait to respond! So while we say - give it a rest - in reality we can't. So a suggestion - just print this post out - run it through the shredder and flush it down the toilet and move on! After all - life is short to stress out over this.

Hey it's Friday - go take a ride, get some fresh air or find someone that is FTF (that is my favorite thing to do! What's yours?

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

So you had to bring this dead horse back to say ignore this dead horse?

[Guest century2ride]

So you had to bring this dead horse back to say ignore this dead horse?

"Every post pushes someone buttons and they can't wait to respond! So while we say - give it a rest - in reality we can't."

THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT and the message wasn't just about this post - but about other posts as well since I noticed so many guys just can't give it a rest but always have some negative comment to plug in!

What are we missing here????

ENJOY THE WEEKEND and find someone that is FTF!

[pitbull]

Fuck you, SD! Go straight to hell!

[AnitaCoxs]

My Advice is take everything with a grain of salt if you understand

[The Oxymoron]

I read this on Lifehacker the other day, and think that others could take something from it as well.

http://lifehacker.com/5854053/how-to-stop-caring-about-trolls-and-get-on-with-your-life

How to Stop Caring About Trolls and Get On With Your Life

You see them everywhere you go on the internet: anonymous users with nothing to say but rude, off-topic, or annoying comments designed to make you angry. The only cure is to just stop caring, and while that's easier said than done, these tips should help you overcome their spell.

The word "trolling" actually comes from a fishing technique in which one casts out bait to catch fish—and that's exactly what internet trolls do. They use rude statements and other techniques to try to "lure" you into getting angry or responding. Their only goal is to get you angry—just like your sibling used to do when they'd poke you or repeat everything you said. Often, they latch onto powerful individuals, in order to feel more powerful themselves.

Trolling on the internet started on Usenet newsgroups back in the day, but now you see them everywhere—internet forums, blogs, YouTube, and even Twitter. The problem is now that in today's day and age, all of us are subject to trolling—not just those powerful enough to have their own blogs. This means that ignoring them becomes a lot more difficult, since you're far more emotionally invested in the things you do and say, and the trolls have that many more mediums to attack you. Here are a few key things that will help build up your thick skin and help you stop caring about what pesky bridge-dwellers are saying on the internet.

How to Stop Caring About Trolls and Get On With Your Life

You've probably heard this phrase numerous times before. It's the cardinal rule of being in an internet community, and with good reason. Avoidance is and has always been the best course of action, hands down. The majority of trolls thrive on the confrontation—after all, their singular goal is to get attention—so the more you ignore them, the better. Downvote their comments or block them if you're on a forum that supports such features, and move on. It's incredibly tempting, but try to ignore them the best you can. Don't respond to them, not even to call them out as a troll, and they'll go away. Even a simple comment like "please stop" or "go away, troll" can bring attention to their comments (either by lengthening the thread or, in some forums, actually causing that thread to move higher in the chain). If a troll returns to their computer with zero replies, however, or if their comment just floats to the bottom of the thread, they'll go looking somewhere else for the attention they crave. Showing them that you can be baited, even a little bit, is just asking for more.

They're Attacking Boredom, Not You

One of the easiest ways to spot a troll is their completely lack of reason. Trolls will lash out and be purposely offensive to draw you in, rather than actually saying something of value. In their statements, you'll see a very "I'm right and everyone else here is wrong" attitude. Chris Shiflett over at Swiss Miss put it best:

The lesson I've learned is to be wary of those who [take pride in disliking things]. The ones who seem to think that being critical is the same as having good taste. Those people almost never have good taste, so their opinions don't matter.

So, even if what you've done isn't so great, just remember that those who can't say so with grace, those who seem to take pride in criticizing you, their opinions don't matter. It may very well be that you've created a masterpiece, and they're just children.

He says it doesn't take any sophistication to be a graceless critic, and he's dead on—if there isn't anything of value in their statement, then you shouldn't be putting any weight on it. Don't let the haters affect you; they're hating because they're bored, not because you've necessarily done anything poorly.

They're Not Worth the Energy

How to Stop Caring About Trolls and Get On With Your Life1

In the end, do you really need to waste your energy worrying about what one or two sad, bored people are saying about you? No. Blogger Scott Stratten explains the concept of "emotional currency" and how it relates to dealing with trolls:

In a nutshell, you only have so much emotion to go around. It should be spent on people who value it, who value you, not some douchenozzle that just finished a 36-hour bender on World of Warcraft and is pissed his wizard lost an epic battle on the island of Corinthian. There are way too many incredible people in this world, and Twitter especially that are worth your time.

Just because the internet has a lot of psychos doesn't mean it isn't full of awesome people, and time spent arguing with trolls is time that could have been spent having meaningful discussions with others. Furthermore, he says, time spent worrying about what trolls thing is time you could have spent on the people that actually matter. Do you really want to drain your energy on something that isn't worthwhile?

Learn to Laugh at the Situation

A positive attitude can get you through anything, and while you can keep yourself from responding to a troll, it's nearly impossible to ignore them altogether—even if you take steps to de-troll your internet. The best defense for keeping your sanity intact is to just have a sense of humor about it. It may seem insensitive to say "just grow a thicker skin", but like it or not, it's very effective. Susannah Breslin, contributor over at Forbes, once said if you "get hit over the head enough times, your head goes numb". It's absolutely true. Just remember that if you're getting trolled more often, it's probably because they see you in a position of power, which means you're doing something right.

How Can I De-Troll My Internet?

How to Respond When You Get Locked In

While I highly recommend avoiding the trolls at all costs, if you accidentally get yourself lured into a discussion, you can either try avoiding, or attempt to fizzle out the argument yourself. We've talked about using "cognitive therapy" once before: if you kill them with kindness, you'll thwart their plans much easier. Software developer Shlomi Fish explains, using the example of a troll that bashes specific programming languages in a forum thread:

Make Quick Work of Internet Trolls by Using Cognitive Therapy

We've previously looked at how you can de-troll your internet, but software developer Shlomi… Read more

It's very simple:

Ask him what he means. ; interrogate him:

"Why do you feel that Python is so bad? What do you find wrong with it?"2

Agree with him (but use a softer language):

"Yes, Perl is a nice language, and I agree that Python has its downsides and/or trade-offs in comparison to Perl."

"It's OK to prefer Perl, we'll still accept you here."

This will make the troll lose steam and help you find a common ground.

Some may disagree with this method—I personally think it's better to just ignore and move on—but if you do get caught responding and can't just turn back, you can change your tune and try to kill them with kindness. It could be a way out.

Learn to Separate Constructive Criticism from Trolling

Lastly, it's worth mentioning that, as I've said before, there are some cases in which someone may be rude or put you down, but they're just tactless. If you can extract any constructive criticism or valid arguments out of someone—even if it means sending them an automated response telling them to be nicer—it can be worth your while. Being mean isn't the same as being a troll, and sometimes it's okay to give someone the benefit of the doubt before ignoring them altogether.

It takes a bit of practice and conditioning, but the main goal is to just stop giving a crap about what other people think—especially those that have nothing useful to offer.