"American Courtesans"

[Guest]

Who has seen it? You can watch it for free now on hulu.com

Very interesting. The lives, histories, and points of view of several american sex workers were presented with dignity and respect.

In fact, the providers interviewed were so eloquent, and carried themselves with so much dignity, that when thinking back at some of the posts I and others have made in this forum, I felt a great deal of shame.

I just realized I'm an asshole.

So, apologies to (at least) Yesenia and Jez for some of my recent posts, and to the community at large.

Those who haven't should see the movie. The providers came off as strong, independent, professional women. Not the victims or simpletons they are frequently made out to be.

[Jez UaBriain]

Laplace, apology accepted. Everyone can be an asshole at sometime or another. I am the biggest asshole that I know, at times.

When one is reading, or participating on forums such as this- you quickly realize the written word does not always express what you are trying to say. We are limited by many things. Upbringing, intellect, to name a few. Nor will all who read your words of wit-will like you. I rarely get my panties up my ass by what I read here, but I am opinionated, and arrogant enough to say what I think is right.

I have not seen this movie Laplace, I think I will make a point to see it.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jez UaBriain
simple spelling mistake

[Lucy Kitten]

Realizing you're an asshole is the first step to not being one ever again. I would never begrudge anyone their revelation but I have a question. Why could the women here not open your eyes to the same realization? Are we somehow less eloquent, less dignified?

Some may think that I have the potential to be bitchy or too opinionated but honestly I think I do a pretty good of maintaining my composure especially when confronted with someone of the BS that happens here. So I ask seriously wondering what I could do differently so that maybe some of you guys will look at me with same respect that the OP did for the women in the film.

[mustang]

IMHO the only thing worse than being an asshole, is failing to recognize that you have/are one, and then refusing to acknowledge our errors while executing our assholeness.....lol

[Blue-eyedTraveler]

Knowing you're an asshole gives you an advantage over those who haven't figured it out yet, and that's everybody.

[Guest]

Are we somehow less eloquent, less dignified?

A fair question and the answer is no, you are not less eloquent or dignified. But then, I have not discussed with you the things of a personal nature which these providers discussed. As you can imagine, during the few sessions I have had, I had other things on my mind.

I think that the film helped me see, for the first time, the ASPs here as real people with real jobs facing real problems and real weaknesses. Just like me.

Before, you were just sexual objects, for my gratification.

And when I and others post disrespectful things here, we are really screwing with your livelyhood. That revelation is what really made me pay attention.

[Jez UaBriain]

Forgive me all while I let my inner asshole run free- but we now have a convert. The op has seen the light. Hail Mary Magdalene- mother of whores...and the debauchery of men.;) (There's those stupid little icons again)

[pitbull]

There are idiots in every profession, and wonderful people in every profession. However, some professions attract more than their fair share of assholes/idiots. For example, most people who WANT to be cops probably should not be. It tends to attract many (NOT ALL) people on power trips who wish to hide behind badges. Unfortunate, but true.

You could also make the generalization that there are more bat-shit crazy people in the prostitution business than other professions. That is, probably more in that profession than say, accountants.

However, countless exceptions exist. Bottom line is that ASPs fascinate us, baffle us, please us, and there will always be room for them in society -- whether they are crazy, ruthlessly sane, or otherwise. I'll have to see "American Courtesans."

[Audrey Astor]

I think that the film helped me see, for the first time, the ASPs here as real people with real jobs facing real problems and real weaknesses. Just like me.

Before, you were just sexual objects, for my gratification.

And when I and others post disrespectful things here, we are really screwing with your livelyhood. That revelation is what really made me pay attention.

Would you mind making several hundred copies for some of the others?

[ak guy]

I havn't seen the movie yet. what I can tell you is that most of these ladies are wonderful humans that have my up most respect. Some are executives in the real world and are doing this for adventure, some just love sex! Whatever the reason they are here I am thankful. Along the way I have made a few friends that I would go out of my way to help.

[Bit Banger]

... I have not discussed with you the things of a personal nature which these providers discussed. As you can imagine, during the few sessions I have had, I had other things on my mind.

... you were just sexual objects, for my gratification.

...

This is a "hazard" of 3G or PSE style appointments, for both sides of the equation. Our partner becomes an object instead of a person. It can happen in "civilian" life too when going through a string of one-night stands. The truly sad part is that we also become less personable, less caring about those around us.

kudos, Laplace, for finally recognizing this.

[Jez UaBriain]

You know what it really comes down too. Is that I really do want to remember you. I want to know who it is that I am screwing. If I have seen 2 Johns , and a couple Steves, I want to be able to remember which one, you are. See, this really goes both ways. Do you guys want us to just look at you because you have a few ben's in your hand. Or would you rather we remember you for who you are. I want to be able to remember you six months down the road. And it is rather embarrassing when I can't, and I've seen you.

There is a huge difference between a 3 g and a gfe. And I too, would much rather enjoy you for you and not just your ben's or my own sexual gratification.

[lola]

I havn't seen the movie yet. what I can tell you is that most of these ladies are wonderful humans that have my up most respect. Some are executives in the real world and are doing this for adventure, some just love sex! Whatever the reason they are here I am thankful. Along the way I have made a few friends that I would go out of my way to help.

what he said.

i too have made lasting friendships that i wouldn't have made otherwise. i'm sure if i passed tomorrow that my friends would come to a service-even the married ones- and i would be to theirs. since i have been on this site ive learned of the huge ranges of experiences that people have in this industry. i've been so thankful for the wonderful experiences i have had which work for me and thankful for the opportunity to avoid the ones that wouldn't.

the sex worker activist community are very gifted in their abilities and capabilities. just remember that we are all someone's mother, child, sister, boss, teacher, nurse, pediatrician or whatever. and in the case of male sex workers the male equivalents.

and yes, some of us can't get enough sex.

[muckleskelpin]

I have met few ladies that were not elegant and intelligent. Of course, as women mature they become even more attractive. The money has little to do with it--knowing who you are and being comfortable in your own skin a lot to do with it. Rather than men looking down on someone as a hireling, look within yourself as a mere monger. Raise your sights--It can be a wonderful enriching activity if you approach it right. Just sayin.......

[MOCHA]

It's been on my to-do for a while (to see it) but haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Guest]

Laplace were you mean to me lol? Omg I really do not remember but There is something to be said for admitting that you were wrong it means that you are a human:eek:. I donot recall you doing anything but apology is well received.

[fork]

Are we somehow less eloquent, less dignified?

I can only speak for myself but it's much easier to be polite and empathetic in person, or to an on-screen person whose story you witness, than to words on an Internet forum. It's easy to be cold in this context and forget there are humans behind the pixels.

[Lucy Kitten]

I can only speak for myself but it's much easier to be polite and empathetic in person, or to an on-screen person whose story you witness, than to words on an Internet forum. It's easy to be cold in this context and forget there are humans behind the pixels.

While I don't entirely disagree, I do believe that selective empathy isn't really empathy. The truly empathetic will search for the meaning in text while those who like to forget that there are people behind posts are usually those lacking in empathy.

The not so nice descriptors that guys like to use for the ladies around here don't encourage any empathy for the ladies. I believe that is more of a problem than the anonymity of the internet.

[fork]

The not so nice descriptors that guys like to use for the ladies around here don't encourage any empathy for the ladies.

Like, "hooker"? I can certainly see why that would sound condescending to the general populace. But for me, the term "hooker" does not have any negative connotations. It's a woman who I would gladly seek out and hand over a wad of money just for an hour of time in her presence. Hookers calm our primal urges, temporarily restore our sanity, and make us want to see them again. I love hookers.

[Lucy Kitten]

Like, "hooker"? I can certainly see why that would sound condescending to the general populace. But for me, the term "hooker" does not have any negative connotations. It's a woman who I would gladly seek out and hand over a wad of money just for an hour of time in her presence. Hookers calm our primal urges, temporarily restore our sanity, and make us want to see them again. I love hookers.

This is exactly what I mean, personally the word doesn't offend you but you lack the empathy to see why it might bother the ladies. It's slang, it's like calling a cop a pig it really isn't a pleasant way to refer to us and then after a while you get used to it and fail to see it is a negative thing.

There used to be a time when we referred to as ASPs or providers, which is much more dignified. More often than not on this board "hooker" is always used in a more derogatory way.

[fork]

In my opinion you lack the empathy to see why it might bother the ladies

Fixed that for ya.

[Lucy Kitten]

Fixed that for ya.

Nothing needed to be fixed, but thanks.

So you contemplated it and still used the word not caring if it offends? That is not opinion, if you can't stop to think that a word you might use to describe someone, especially when speaking directly to them is offensive then that is lacking in empathy. If you contemplate it realize that it might be offensive then you're just an asshole. IMHO of course

[Bit Banger]

I tend to use "YL" which is ARRL slang for "young lady"

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

It is more like calling a police officer a cop.

[pfunk]

It is more like calling a police officer a cop.

Which, as you know, they don't like.

Lucy has a point. Using a word, or phrase, on purpose, that someone else doesn't like, is not "politically incorrect". It's being impolite, and rude. It's showing a lack of empathy.

I'll have to find this movie. It looks interesting. Thank you, Laplace.

[dreamer]

Which, as you know, they don't like.

Lucy has a point. Using a word, or phrase, on purpose, that someone else doesn't like, is not "politically incorrect". It's being impolite, and rude. It's showing a lack of empathy.

I'll have to find this movie. It looks interesting. Thank you, Laplace.

Using the word "provider" in this context is also slang, just one that some people prefer. The word "prostitute" is the english language word. Is it impolite to use that most accurate word?

[gr8owl]

This is exactly what I mean, personally the word doesn't offend you but you lack the empathy to see why it might bother the ladies. It's slang, it's like calling a cop a pig it really isn't a pleasant way to refer to us and then after a while you get used to it and fail to see it is a negative thing.

There used to be a time when we referred to as ASPs or providers, which is much more dignified. More often than not on this board "hooker" is always used in a more derogatory way.[/QU

Afraid I must disagree. I have on occasion used the word myself and I hope that you or anyone who has paid much attention to my posts would understand and agree that I have never attempted to belittle, demean or put down any of the ladies here or in the business in general (unless they are clear scammers, con artists, etc.) To the contrary I have made it clear I have dated, loved, married, etc. more than one. For the most part they are my kinda person. That is why I usually am found using the term "ladies".

That said, to any and all that i have ever offended with the use of the word "hooker" or any other term the use of which I may be forgetting:

I am sorry. I meant no offense

And lastly, for what it is worth I think society in general and you in particular are being a tad over-sensitive to say the least. But nonetheless, if ever I have offended or demeaned you I apologize as it was not my intent.

[Lucy Kitten]

Please don't take my dislike of this word as anger directed towards individuals who have used it.

I too am guilty of using this word, usually in jest for the sake of the joke. I find no harm in that I really don't. The problem with words is the weight that the carry, they can very easily gain momentum. One person uses it and then more start to use it. If hooker is acceptable where do we draw the line? Or do we just get used to it until it becomes acceptable to call us something worse? It may seem that I am a little sensitive about the matter but I don't think so. I just happen to speak more, let's say, passionately about it than others.

I actually received an email from a gent on the forum, just yesterday, asking me when it became more commonplace to use that word. He was against it too and said he feels it has created a sort of hostile environment and asked me if some of the regular guys had become meaner. He and I can't be the only two that feel way.

Sorry for the wordy post, I have been away for a while and it feels good!

[NaughtyNiceGuy]

I disagree. Using more "acceptable" words like provider and clients tend to make people think that this is a legal interaction. It is not and hookers and johns makes it more obvious what we are really doing. Has nothing to do with denigration. Those that are offended should think about what they are doing.

[MAG]

I disagree. Using more "acceptable" words like provider and clients tend to make people think that this is a legal interaction. It is not and hookers and johns makes it more obvious what we are really doing. Has nothing to do with denigration. Those that are offended should think about what they are doing.

Exactly. I have used both "hooker" and "john". At first, the hookers complained about "hooker", but the couldn't complain much because it's an accurate term.

I suspect those who are offended by it are ashamed of what they are.