Handguns with you

[woody]

Mouth, if you carry in schools and Post offices, and get caught, you will be in a world of hurt, 2 places specifically illegal to carry in unless you are LEO. I too believe in the right to carry, the right to defend yourself and others however as with most rights, they do have limitations. As for George Zimmerman, the courts will decide but I believe, from the limited information that has been released, he was justified. As for other circumstances, each one is different. Sure a crazed lunie attacks you, etc. but was he shot in the back, could you have run, was this your only alternative? Questions and details which all enter into being charged, convicted or none of the above. Unfortunately there is no absolute answer, unless you are an absolutist I guess, but the law may disagree. And if you are charged but not convicted, good luck with that being that you are now much poorer having to pay a lawyer to defend yourself. Of course this doesn't prevent you from also being sued by the family of the victim and more legal costs. And as for your assertion that the girls should feel safe around CCW carriers, why would you assume that? Many people have a gut reaction to guns, usually negative if they have not been educated with and about them. Do you show your CCW permit to the girls just to put them at ease? I'm sure most people who carry w/o a permit would say they have a CCW permit. You make way too many assumptions. You act like a showboat. You give cowboys a bad name.

[woody]

Weapons in a gun safe are technically not used so? And bringing up Hitler? Aren't we kind of off in the weeds here? I know, arguments 101, bring up the most horrendous example of something sort of related to the argument and you will win. Sorry but it does not apply here. Let's face the facts. In the USA, we are within our constitutional rights to bear arms and in this argument, if the State of Colorado allows specific individuals to carry concealed then so be it. Using the weapon is quite a different matter. Just pulling your weapon in the wrong situation can get you charged with felony menacing and your permit revoked. Sometimes I think the government 'allowed' the CCW just to see how much trouble the citizenry could get into so they could argue against it and ban it.

[Guest JenniferOfDenver]

Mouth, if you carry in schools and Post offices, and get caught, you will be in a world of hurt, 2 places specifically illegal to carry in unless you are LEO. I too believe in the right to carry, the right to defend yourself and others however as with most rights, they do have limitations. As for George Zimmerman, the courts will decide but I believe, from the limited information that has been released, he was justified. As for other circumstances, each one is different. Sure a crazed lunie attacks you, etc. but was he shot in the back, could you have run, was this your only alternative? Questions and details which all enter into being charged, convicted or none of the above. Unfortunately there is no absolute answer, unless you are an absolutist I guess, but the law may disagree. And if you are charged but not convicted, good luck with that being that you are now much poorer having to pay a lawyer to defend yourself. Of course this doesn't prevent you from also being sued by the family of the victim and more legal costs. And as for your assertion that the girls should feel safe around CCW carriers, why would you assume that? Many people have a gut reaction to guns, usually negative if they have not been educated with and about them. Do you show your CCW permit to the girls just to put them at ease? I'm sure most people who carry w/o a permit would say they have a CCW permit. You make way too many assumptions. You act like a showboat. You give cowboys a bad name.

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I feel extremely safe around CCW carriers. Why?

1. They are law-abiding citizens who are not carrying illegal guns.

2. They are sane, sober, and trained in the safe handling of firearms.

3. They are not going to hurt me. They wouldn't risk their permit.

4. If they did hurt me, they would be traced and caught.

5. The sheriff who issued their CCP has screened them better than I can.

6. I can quickly & easily verify a CCP prior to meeting.

7. A firearm saved my life when someone tried to kidnap me at knifepoint.

8. No firearm has ever endangered me or caused me to be fearful.

9. Nutcases don't need guns to hurt people. Law-abiding citizens protect us from nutcases who hurt people. A gun is a TOOL which is used to protect people. It's good to have the right tool for the job!

Read this link and I dare anyone to say anything but, "Thank God that guy had his gun with him!"

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx

A gun is a tool. You keep it with you always, because you never know when you're going to need it. You might never need it. You might need it once in your life. The point is, you never know when you are going to need it, and you damn well better have it with you on that one day when a nutjob is hurting innocent people and you can save their lives. Yeah, somebody could have hit the knife-wielding nutjob with a baseball bat. But who carries a baseball bat?

Did everyone read the link?

"Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria."

Dozens of shoppers who could have become victims are also thankful for the gun carrying man.

The knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

Does everyone get it? Nobody got shot. He drew and said "Drop your weapon!" Thank God he had his gun that day. Did he know he would have to draw on a knife-wielding-nutjob? Of course not. It's not like knife-wielding nutjobs give advance notice. He was prepared. Everyone should always be prepared.

I BELIEVE in our constitutional rights and respect those who stand up for them. The Second Amendment has been subject to slings and arrows from those hell-bent on creating moral panics.

"Ooh! Guns are dangerous!"

Not as dangerous as not having a gun.

Does your wife go shopping? Do your daughters? Think about this the next time they go shopping.

[2Big]

@Jennifer

What you presented is anecdotal evidence. But, maybe you're right, next time I go to Walmart, I'm packin' my M16. You never know. There might be Taliban hiding behind the meat freezer.

The evidence that concealed carry laws significantly reduce crime is at best mixed. Correlation and causation are difficult to sort out and require a considerable degree of heavy statistical lifting.

See here, for example:

http://www.sj-r.com/top-stories/x1526463189/Concealed-carry-laws-Experts-debate-impact?zc_p=0

[woody]

Jennifer, you also make too many assumptions. First, you assume I'm not for concealed carry by citizens or that I don't. Wrong on both. You also state that no CCW permit holder would harm you. That's like saying people won't be murdered because it is illegal or that more laws against something prevent it. All CCW permit holders are not the upstanding citizens you assume they are. That's why many have their permits revoked. And what is an "illegal gun"? One that has it's serial number removed/altered for sure but your ordinary citizen can possess weapons many consider to be "illegal" such as automatic weapons, 'silencers', etc. with the right permits. I can own a so called "assault rifle", semi-automatic, without anything but a background check. I'm simply saying that this 'cowboy-up' attitude, false bravado crap simply has no place in responsible concealed carry by citizens. BTW, do you really believe that the CC permit classes train someone to use a gun responsibly and with any accuracy. Kids getting their permit to drive spend much more time in the classroom and on the road than people need to get a CCW permit. The CC permit classes are mostly gun handling, the laws and very little range time. They are just a beginning step.

[Velvet Valentine]

No flamers please- This is my opinion for myself only-

In July of 05, I was held up, by three men, in an armed robbery in a very high end martini bar (in a 5 star hotel), that I was running. They held 3 9mm pistols to my head for what felt like an hour. They made me lay face down on the floor afterwards and I really thought I was going to die. In the end, One guy hit me over the head with a beer bottle. It affected me emotionally for a good while, and while I eventally got over it, I am always watching my surroundings and over my back when I go out...very understandable.

That being said, I grew up around guns my entire life. My father gave me a 45 at the age of 12, and I have no fear of the guns. IMO, The person behind it is the one to worry about. If someone is the type who wants to hurt you, they will do it with a knife, a gun, a fork. a glass bottle, drugs, poison, or their bare hands.

Every girl here has the right to run her business as she sees fit, so it should be her own choice if she does not mind them in her incall, or if she does. SHE DOES HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW, AND GUYS SHOULD BE HONEST ABOUT IT. I wouldn't turn a great guy down, if he came to me about it. I personally doubt that any of my guys, that I see, with CCW are of any danger to me what-so-ever. I know them as good friends, and I know they are great guys. I would like to add that personally, I'd rather them not hide it from me, but just be normal about it. Placing it on a table or dresser is probably safer than leaving it on your pants , where it could go off accidentally. Again MY OWN CHOICE.

Here is my "but"- I have total faith in my own screening. I turn some business away and would rather be less busy, seeing guys I really like and connect with, even if only for an hour. Some girls need money more than others and some do not screen well and would have more to fear about guns, if they see just anyone and might see a lesser element of quality men. Guys with a CCW are different from those who are criminals and carry illegally for negative purposes., IMO. Some people might have a tough time decifering the difference. For those ladies, I can see where they would fear guns in their incalls. It boils down to respect of one another, common sense on both ends, and making good considerate choices.

[Guest JenniferOfDenver]

Brilliant idea: why bother with restraining orders, just shoot your stalker. (Then end up in jail, trading your shitter for cigarettes and protection).

Can't smoke in jail.

Restraining orders?

http://www.law.miami.edu/hrc/hrc_gonzalez_usa.php

[Nightrain]

Couple things to ponder about Jennifer's link:

1. Was the gun carrier from the link, a trained professional? A cop, military? Or was he some Joe Blow Hobbier like me with a few gun classes under his belt that would have probably emptied the clip PDQ in the suspect's general direction.

2. The OP was about whether to carry a gun (aside from the fun gun) into a provider's incall. The best response I heard was, if you're anticipating trouble by going into a situation where you could be the catalyst for the trouble, why go in at all.

[Balto]

So, now I'm a communist just because I don't want some fool popping off left and right?

No, he actually implied you were a Nazi. Although, I doubt he knows the difference.

[Guest JenniferOfDenver]

Jennifer, you also make too many assumptions. First, you assume I'm not for concealed carry by citizens or that I don't. Wrong on both. You also state that no CCW permit holder would harm you. That's like saying people won't be murdered because it is illegal or that more laws against something prevent it. All CCW permit holders are not the upstanding citizens you assume they are. That's why many have their permits revoked. And what is an "illegal gun"? One that has it's serial number removed/altered for sure but your ordinary citizen can possess weapons many consider to be "illegal" such as automatic weapons, 'silencers', etc. with the right permits. I can own a so called "assault rifle", semi-automatic, without anything but a background check. I'm simply saying that this 'cowboy-up' attitude, false bravado crap simply has no place in responsible concealed carry by citizens. BTW, do you really believe that the CC permit classes train someone to use a gun responsibly and with any accuracy. Kids getting their permit to drive spend much more time in the classroom and on the road than people need to get a CCW permit. The CC permit classes are mostly gun handling, the laws and very little range time. They are just a beginning step.

Permits can be checked. Revoked permit=thumbs down.

[Balto]

History does repeat itself huh? Hitlers 1930's Germany , Ban private firearms, infuse the water with flouride(complacency not for teeth), socialized medicine, create boogie men to start wars, government propaganda programs, spying on its citizens, internment camps for its citizens (NDAA). Most is pretty obvious, how can you not see it? . People like you are part of the problem not the solution , and a very dangerous mindset to our liberties.

Fluoride? You're scared of fluoride? Is Colgate part of the fluoride conspiracy? And, they have national healthcare in every European nation now with no sign of Nazis in site. They also have better cheese. Maybe high quality cheese is behind national healthcare as opposed to the Nazis.

[woody]

Here's an easy way to check if the permit has been revoked. An empty hand. And yes I'm take you up on that discount for CCW holders, that is if you'll have me.

[Balto]

The only reason Zimmerman was charged was because the media kept showing the pic of the 11 year old Martin. He would be exonerated here in Colorado BTW, and he will be found not guilty I believe.

1. Stalker former client who is mentally unstable, and is watching and decides when you go in that is the last straw.

2.Former BF, GF, or SO works at the Post Office.

3. The home invaision guys got the wrong address.

4. Walking in or out to the appointment and some neighbor missed his meds or the neighborhood children took too much Ritalin and got hold of pops weapons.

5. Some judgemental unhinged Christian decides to make the world a better place by ridding the world of crime.

6. Get back to your vehical and the drug addict/ teenager/ ex-con/unemployed/homeless is going through your vehical and that is where the guns are, surprise.

7. Didn't see the guy on the bicycle and almost hit him, and he has followed you for some distance and is going to beat you as soon as you stop and get out.

8. The neighbors German shepherd got out the yard and is biting you.

Most of the unarmed citizens do not realize that a fist fight is a life threatening event, and a punch does not have to be thrown to end the threat in a fatal way. Zimmerman would be 100% not guilty here in Colorado for instance. There are countless scenarios, restauraunts, gas stations, road rage drivers etc. etc. there are thousands upon thousands and if you are unarmed you are dead. Do I want any of these things to happen? No. Would I kill without hesitation if my life was threatened? 2 to the chest and 1 to the head inside one split second, yup been working on it at the range for 30 years and thousands of rounds just in case. Criminals don't care what section of town they are in and some even prefer nicer neighborhoods so good try there. I am a second amendment absolutist, I conceal carry in schools, and post offices, including states like New York, Illinois and Mass. where I would end up in prison for numerous years. My life must be worth way more then all of yours, and yet if I were around I would probably save all of your lives too.

Wow, you are truly living in a cloud of paranoia. Do you lie awake at night fantasizing about shooting someone? Then all the papers will write what a hero you are? Sounds like a 5th grader mentality in a grown man to me. And, BTW, what part of Dixie did you grow up in?

[Balto]

You buy an attack German Shepard and we both go into a closed room and I will emerge alive and maybe bitten and broken boned but the dog will be dead, and I would wager 1k or 2k to make it fun. As for your commuist, authoritarian views on gun ownership maybe you should move to a different country altogether?

What's with disin German Shepards? I've never met a mean German Shepard and the ones I've met that are trained to attack would never do so unprovoked. OK...maybe I'm getting off topic.

And, I thought you said 2big was a Nazi? Now your saying he's a Communist. Make up your mid!!!

[TheMouth]

Funny thing is Balto (enemy of the very basic of natural law which is life) I am not paranoid because I fear nothing, and as for growing up in Dixie I hardly think so. The 5th grader mentality is exactly what ignorant fools think about people who are harmless unless the provoked with a life threatening situation. My fantasy life is of none of your concern, but taking anothers life is a very sick thing maybe you need some professional help with that. Thank you and 2 thumbs up to Jennifer and Velvet gals who actually are intelligent and think.

[Geekatlrg]

State Highway Patrol Trooper*pulled over a little old lady frr a faulty taillight. When the officer approached the driver, she handed the ers license, insuracard and Concealed Carry Permit. The officer took all the documents, looked them over and said. "Mrs. Smith, I see you have a CCP. Do you have any weapons with you?"*The little old lady replied, "Yes sir, I have a .357 handgun in a hip holster, a .45 in the glove box and a .22 derringer in my boot."*The officer looked at her and asked, "Anything else?"*"Yes sir, I have a Mossberg 500 12-gauge and an AR-15 in the trunk."*The officer asked if she was driving to or from a shooting range and the little old lady said she wasn't, so the officer bent over and looked into the her face and said, "Mrs. Smith, you're carrying quite a few guns. May I ask what you are afraid of?"*The little old lady locked eyes with the officer and calmly answered,"Not a damn thing!"

[urfan]

Dill - brilliant insertion of some Strangelove to this stranger than fiction thread!

[TheMouth]

Luck LOL Luck has nothing to do with it and they all want to see me again for some reason! Yes some of the gals carry in their purses so what.

[2Big]

8. The neighbors German shepherd got out the yard and is biting you.

You buy an attack German Shepard and we both go into a closed room

I have the feeling this really isn't about guns at all, amirite?

[woody]

Ok, this is the last thing I'll say about this. Unless I say something else. The reason why someone wants to carry isn't really important, unless it deals with talking dogs or other illusions. Hell I carry because of Walking Dead people. If the State deems it ok for you to walk about carrying, so be it. As long as you don't harm the innocent, groovy. My point has to do with the how and not the why. The real advantage of having a concealed weapon isn't the caliber, the number of bullets in your magazine, the brand, jacketed, hollow point, +P ammo, etc. The advantage you might have is that the BG doesn't know you are carrying. Here you advertise/brag about this and that, giving away any advantage you had. Hey BG, pissed off boyfriend of Ms. Hot provider, drugged out friend of Ms. PSE, Ms. Psycho-Backpage, want a .45? The Mouth has one. Advantage - BG. Yeah, I know you are Bruce Willis in "Die Hard" 21. You are the hottest sh*t shooter this side of whatever but if you don't have control of the weapon (like when your pants are on the chair on the other side of the room), you aren't. You want control? Leave it in the car. And what kind of d*mb-ass question is that anyway? Hey should I leave or take my gun when I'm going to commit an alleged illegal act? On second thought, yes you should. Take a few guns, multiple mags, maybe a BS leg holster, flack jacket, all you got. Go for it.

[mj76]

I am not paranoid because I fear nothing

There would be no reason to carry a weapon if you really feared nothing. I can also think of plenty of scenarios where a gun would be beneficial but oddly since becoming an adult and making good decisions I have never been in a situation that I needed one. I just don't feel the need to take one to an appointment, grocery store or even the bank which would probably be the most likely place to run into trouble these days.

[Balto]

(enemy of the very basic of natural law which is life)

What in the world does that mean?

The problem with Concealed Carried Permits is that quite often the people who think they need a gun are the last people that should be armed. Based on your posts, I really think you need to ask yourself if you have the maturity level to carry a weapon. Does the fact that you are armed make you more likely to put yourself in a stupid situation (such as Zimmerman) that you have no business being in?

I am not paranoid because I fear nothing...who are harmless unless the provoked with a life threatening situation...

Fear nothing? I assume you fear nothing when you are armed. Pretty twisted to claim that you "fear nothing". And it sounds like you can't wait to find that life threatening situation where you can prove how important you are. Please keep your security blanket in its holster. If you ever pull it out, I just hope all you do is shoot yourself in the foot.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Balto
punctuation

[boink36]

I have the feeling this really isn't about guns at all, amirite?

You are correct. not only that, this thread has drifted way way off topic from the OP.